My church squared that circle by only caring about others in the "eternal souls damned to hell" sense. If your physical needs weren't being met, that was a personal failing as far as they were concerned. What's that? Jesus did a lot of caring for the physical needs of others? Nah, see, that was as only as a metaphor for their spiritual needs. Get your hands off my stuff, dammit.
Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:32-35)
Wow, those apostles and primitive Christians completely missed the metaphor!
It's always fascinating to go back and re-read the Bible without the blinders of dogma on. For instance, Paul was held out as a divinely-appointed guide to the early church, but if you don't take his conversion story at face value it's quite clear that he's a conservative trying to take control of a nascent religion and steer it away from the more radical ideas that some of the other early followers took away from the teachings of Jesus. That fun children's story about Joshua and the walls of Jericho (remember the French Peas from VeggieTales)? That was the opening act of a years-long campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing that God commanded the Israelites undertake to claim the Promised Land!
My favorite, though, is Song of Solomon. It's straight-up erotic poetry, right in the middle of a book handed out to children! I know they claim it's metaphorical, but come the fuck on... the author spends whole chapters describing his lover's naked body, that ain't a metaphor for anything other than "I want to bone you."
I'm not going to go as far as to say it's good erotic poetry, though. I've tried "your breasts are like fawns, twins of a gazelle" on my wife and was immediately ejected from the bedroom. YMMV, though.
Right wing starlet Erick Erickson likes to wax poetic about how Jesus' parable about the good Samaritan wasn't insisting people help those in need, it was about helping only other Christians in need. There was some Bible code or some shit that went into explaining how that worked.
That's a lot of mental gymnastics, given that Jesus' selection of a Samaritan was specifically made because Jews and Samaritans loathed one another as a rule. The point was to treat everyone as your neighbor, not just those who were part of your in-group. It takes some incredible brain damage to argue "actually, it means the exact polar opposite of its plain meaning."
What. Literally the entire point of it was that the good person helped a stranger who was different when the people who weren't different and had an expectation and responsibility to help. That's not interpretation anymore than deciding it's likely to rain tomorrow is interpretation of a weather report calling for rain on Tuesday.
So many Christians jump through hoops to ignore the explicit message. But these are the people who fetishize guns and excuse police murder while putting the words "thou shalt not kill" on government buildings
Lyrics
[Chorus] You will eat Bye and bye In that glorious land in the sky Work and pray Live on hay You get pie in the sky when you die (that's a lie!) Long-haired preachers come out every night Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right But when asked about something to eat They will answer in voices so sweet: [Chorus] If you fight hard for children and wife Try to get something good in this life You're a sinner and a bad man, they tell When you die you will surely go to hell [Chorus] Workingmen of all countries unite Side by side we for freedom will fight When the world and its wealth we have gained To the grafters we'll sing this refrain: You will eat, bye and bye When you've learned how to cook and to fry Chop some wood, 'twill do you good And you'll eat in the sweet bye and byeYearly reminder that Mother Theresa was quoted as saying she withheld medication from children because she thought their suffering brought them closer to her god.
The most revered catholic saint in modern times wanted to increase the suffering of children with excruciating diseases because it was holy.
As someone with a lifelong genetic condition that causes chronic pain, fuck everything about any religion that would venerate that. It’s absolutely barbaric, and that mentality needs to die the agonising death it’s inflicted on others.
And then later admitted privately that she didn’t know whether or not that god even existed.
So the loaves and fishes were only metaphors and he didn’t actually feed the masses. Got it.
Bet he also didn’t mean to pay taxes when he said “give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”
Is this /s?
Yes, it’s all metaphors. Pretty much all the Bible stories are lifted from earlier Mesopotamian, Greek, Egyptian, and Pagan fables. There are direct translations of previous myths and fables that we can trace through ancient manuscripts. None of it is true, and we’re all far better off understanding that.
We can still take wisdom from the stories, but they’re nothing more than stories. No, there was no literal incident of a guy named Jesus cloning bread and fish to feed people. If you want to take a moral from that story, that’s lovely – just the same as we can take a moral to question strangers from Little Red Riding Hood. Just don’t expect us to believe a wolf literally swallowed a child and her grandmother whole, and they cut themselves from his stomach as he slept.
Organized Religon is a control mechanism that humanity no longer needs.
We never really needed it, it's arose naturally when people began to question the nature of their reality and other people realized they can gain political power by giving them "answers".
Religon was kind of a law enforcement system before governments could properly setup formal law enforcement.
It's a way to make communities self police.
These days, organized religion is a dangerous tool sitting around for random con men to pick up and weild.
Never ever need
Monotheistic Religion is a step along the ladder of class struggle. 2 ish steps ago.
no longer needs✅ Shouldn't need.
I agree with you however it sadly is a self perpetuating cycle fueled by those who look to gain and those who accept exploitation of the working class regardless of whether it is knowingly or unknowingly.
Yeah, religion is obsolete, I'm tellin' yeah.. for real this time. We have
FortranRust* now.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVc8lkTfrk
Also, right-wing parties will lose all future elections because they are dying out of old age.. for real this time.
And Gazans were living the best time of their life when the other side of the uniparty was in control.. for real!
* I'm actually a Rust user 😄
Ah yes, we have finally discovered the only human being that is immune from politics™ . If only we could all achieve the level of enlightenment that you have.
If you just take a tiny look at what is happening right now, I'd say humanity definitely needs it. Religion merely became powerless to help with it, but the need to make people behave properly definitely is there.
You behave properly by not being into religion. That's kinda the point. Few cults aren't too radical to be sensible (~all of Island, ~all of Christianity) in a modern world, or intentionally undermine societal structures around them to further their own goals (Mormons et all).
It was once a needed concept. Nowadays non-ecclesical structures exist to do this, and they get actively hampered/undermined by religious ones (see the christofascists in the US).
A) religion is behind what's happening right now. Evangelicals own the country and Project 2025'd it. The religious are genociding Gaza. Religion can suck a whole mess of dicks.
B) If people need an external daddy figure to make them be good, they aren't good to begin with. And typically the religious are much worse people than agnostics or atheists, who seem to find it possible to find and rely on intrinsic understandings of good and bad.
C) Religion is not necessary for faith or belief. It's just the human corruption and power consolidation of it.
What humanity needs, IMO, is to realize collectively and also teach our children that happiness, fulfillment, and yes morality are things that come from within. And they are of course strongly influenced by the people & relationships closest to us.
Religion teaches people look for an external source of morality and happiness just as much as capitalism does. Being religious or living under capitalism don't necessarily prevent individuals from achieving self-actualization, but I certainly don't think they make it easier for most. I say "most" because there's a lot of variety in people, and there are undoubtedly some people who are wired to love just about anything you can think of, including running a business or leading a worship service.
Religion seems to me to be a preprocessed bundle of ideas. Where I think humanity goes wrong is our taboo around challenging those ideas one by one to try to improve humanity.
Reminds me of Supply-side Jesus. https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp
that's because christianity and christian nationalism are two entirely different religions.
Christianity and Christianity are two entirely different religions. It differs between the time period, geography and even between 2 neighbours. Christianity is not a moral code but something you can interpret based on your already existing moral code.
I remember multiple Christian authority figures growing up espousing the importance of kindness, natural wonders and thinking for yourself. Deeply ironic in hindsight! Perhaps no one was more hypocritical than my parents though.
I was kicked out of home for being gay. My parents have never grown a vegetable or had a house pet - which I think says a lot about their ability to love something other than themselves. Despite being immigrants, they both love Trump and extreme right wing beliefs. They are also very racist towards immigrants from other countries, dismissing them as "lesser".
For real! I've been raised pretty religious, and this bigotry is a big factor that made me an atheist.
Man... we are surronded by non thinkers...
"Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians -- you are not like him." - Bara Dada (~1925)
I love the humorous and relevant username for this thread.
Remember being told not to believe everything you read? Remember being told to be skeptical of what you read in the media?
I definitely was. The people that told me that almost certainly voted Trump though. (They're not nut job supporters, but lifelong R's.)
My dysfunctional, delusional and conspiracy-soaked parents told me all the time as I grew up, isolated and disallowed from having school or friends, that I needed to beware the world, that I must never trust others, that people were liars and crazy and that one day I would understand.
Now I do understand. After long-since having buried them all, I now know the truth they said would be so blessed and would "save" me. I now know the book they lived by was a book of ancient fairy tales with some good moral lessons and a lot of death and brutality. I know that they reason I was kept isolated was because they were mentally ill and in denial, I know that I was raised in a cult, not kept safe out in the wilderness. There will be no "second coming" there will be no "paradise" or apocalypse, I am not chosen or special other than the fact that I control my own life and destiny. And I know that THEY were the lying, crazy world that I must not trust. And there are so, so many like them still out there, to various degrees.
Honestly, taken in a vacuum it's almost a biblical story in itself. That the hardest lesson is the one you have to learn on your own as you abandon literally everything you thought you knew and hoped for. That the real world is dark, and vast and cold and we live profoundly lonely lives, brief flashes of life that are gone in an instant as we cling to a mote of dust caught around a spark in the dark, and maybe we can choose to make our world better or we can choose to make our lives better or we can make the lives of others better and that's it. We don't get better options and they're not mutually exclusive. If you're not doing those things, you're wasting time.
You.
Do.
Not.
Have.
Time.
To.
Waste.
Beautifully said
Your care is limited to Thoughts and Prayers.
But not money or action.
No, they spend plenty of money and action, they just spend it to deny women healthcare, limit whom you are allowed to love, and to remove books from libraries that show the experience of any non-white person. They spend spend it to cause harm to people they don't even know for reasons they can't even put into words
Yeah the hypocrisy is deeply baked into the culture.
Whenever I watch a true crime show where they start out with "and they're good, churchgoing people who could've expected this?" I'm like 🙄...me, that's who.
"Jokes on you idiot that was just so we could take advantage of you" oh.
That's what I feel like all those cartoons I watched in the 80s and 90s did to me.
I must be one of the lucky few who weren't raised by hypocritical Christians. My parents actually tried to be generous and helpful.
My parents actually tried to be generous and helpful.
That was one of the first lessons of first communion and confirmation while being raised christian. Being a great human just isnt enough, you had to go through some church ceremonies or you'd burn in hell. Too bad for the brown people who had no contact with christianity, but I'm afraid their souls were all just doomed to burn in exquisite agony forever.
Lesson for the children: Anyone not like us burns in hell. They are lesser.
I'm not religious anymore myself. Grew up Catholic. But my experience with it definitely seems to be different than a lot of other people. The priest we had was super progressive and inclusive. Didn't spout any of the fire and brimstone crap either. Actually tried to live the life of Jesus and told us to love and accept everyone, including gays and people from other religions, etc. I do realize this isn't the typical experience for most people though. I think father Matthew was genuinely a good guy and got into the faith because he actually wanted to help people.
I was raised by hypocritical Jews if it helps. But then that kind of goes with being Jews. We don’t exactly follow the books unless we’re super orthodox.
Humans in general tend to be hypocritical unless they are intentional about things.
You care about others? You socialist monster, that means you want to slaughter millions.
I wonder if people are telling kids to care about others as much as in past generations.
they may be telling children to care about others, but only as far as "fuck you, i got mine"
It's because they are trying to worship the merciful God of Jesus and the wrathful, nationalistic god Yahweh at the same time.
An this little deity called 'cold hard cash' on the side
Even the Bible talks about the 'deserving' poor. Dealing with people and power and motivation and rights has been a swamp since the beginning..
ITT poor understanding of Christian theology
Are you talking about the vast majority of people who call themselves "christian"?
Some good ol' Crusades.
Bring this up to Christian an that's when they go "Old Testament " on you. removed what about the New and Improved Testament?
New testament god still supports slavery
They meant other Christians.
Only if they’re the right kind of Christians.
100 fucking percent.
As a millennial, Christianity for most of my life has been defined by queer bashing and other horrific shit. Ollie fucking North is held up as an example. Growing up in a shithole southern state, it’s less a religion and more a tribe/enforcement of social conformity. It’s also the expected social safety net here - that’s why they gut social programs, to force you to comply with whatever your local church thinks you need to do to deserve to eat.
Sometimes I hope this all a joke - that Trump/Musk are Antichrists sent to exemplify the hypocrisy and rot at the heart of American white dominionist Christianity, that eventually Jesus himself will show up and call these fuckers out.
Lol. Who do you think you are? Jesus?
The worst people I have met in life are usually christian
How many cases of child sexual abuse have they swept under the rug?
Tax the church!
Nah man, there is a hell for non believers.
It’s more like, help others as long as they are willing to go along with the Christian agenda and way of life.
Christian love, besides Jesus’ story, is very conditional.
Ive been grown up in Germany as part of the evanglian lutherian Church, the main Christian church in northern Germany.
And all the officials of the church (Pastor, superintendend etc) and volunteers ive met have been really nice people. Collecting money and stuff for the poor, giving refugees facing deportation church asylum, taking part in civil rights movements to fight for the rights of minorities like LGBTQI*, people of color or member of other religions, taking care of the old and sick, helping alcohol and drug addicts etc.
Like a good aunt. Not always the most progressive person you know, but still always good hearted and kind and willing to fight for the good.
So churches can be imho a good place.
Can be but they are not
"We didn't think that included caring about people who weren't cishet, white Christians! That aren't poor! And don't annoy us for whatever reason!"
cishet
Oh great, another new word. yay.
cishet is a combination of cisgender and heterosexual. both terms have been around for quite a while.
Cishet has been around for quite a while. It's a contraction of cisgender (meaning one's genitals and gender roughly match and have not been altered) and heterosexual (meaning one is primarily sexually interested in the opposite gender)
Congratulations on being one of today's 10,000.
the preferred nomenclature is least incoherent reactionary
thx
And so the talking past each other continues...
don’t worry 😉 material conditions’bout to fix that
I'm reasonably certain the command is for the believer to care for the poor and those less fortunate, not for them to abdicate responsibility to the government.
That would be true if those same people weren't using it as a bad faith argument.
You dont get to claim that the US is a christian nation, founded on christianity, with a Speaker of the House saying he's the new Moses, trying to destroy every barrier between church and state, then also claim that government isnt meant to do these functions when its inconvienent.
This is an exceptional comment. Thank you.
