No Connection, No Flush
No Connection, No Flush
No Connection, No Flush
"Ok, so what you can see in the logs?"
"Sweetcorn."
Didn't ingest any, but it's still there somehow
Must be a kernel issue
I can consider acceptable for the kettles to be connected to the internet if, and only if, they answer always with a 418 status code.
But... Teapot!
There's nearly as much reason for those to be internet-connected.
I'm perfectly fine with enabling a connection, just not requiring one.
For example - my lights are automated. They have a switch though. If they went offline (or my server does), I can press the entirely local switch and have light.
As a reminder though, 418 is supposed to be the response for requests of the teapot to brew coffee.
I can press the entirely local switch and have light.
Are you sure about that? Is it a local connected smart switch (still fancy electronics, just local) or a plain old power switch?
If it’s a power switch, and If you turned your lights off by app over the internet, and then the internet went out, then your lights’ ability to come back on when you flick the physical switch depends on somebody having thought about this need and programmed a “oh, the switch was flicked so I better ignore the internet settings” mode.
And if they did that, it also probably means your lights all turn on after a power outage since the light can’t tell the difference between power outage and light switch flipped off.
The more I hear from big tech companies the more I want to reject it. I don't even own a printer.
About 3-4 years ago I took a bit of a dive into the firmware of IoT devices. The utter lack of security and the amount of information being hoovered up to the mothership made me swear to never build anything “smart” into the renovations of my current home. Sure, there will be automation. There will be CCTV. There will be solar with battery backup for essentials. There will be conveniences of all kinds. But virtually all will be air gapped, incapable of remote rooting, and under my full control.
Hell, even my laser printers are HP models over two decades old - an HP 4050DTN and an HP 5000DTN - that are totally devoid of any DRM or “smart features” and can trivially take generic overstuffed cartridges that can do 20,000 sheets at 5% coverage.
I worked for Cisco during the time IoT was being pushed into everything. You don't want to know how bad it is. If I was malicious I could have easily written several backdoors into their products without anyone knowing. I wrote kernel code in their IOS operating system. There are no checks on that shit and the entire switching team does next to zero peer review on kernel security.
Yes, there products that (at the time) touched upwards of 95% of all packets sent over the Internet.
The only upside to this state of things is that it keeps alive my fantasies of one day being a Watchdogs-style techno-sorcerer that can wirelessly hack anything that runs on electrons and a WiFi signal.
... Although the nightmare is that people far more evil can probably already do that.
That printer is a 2000's HP LaserJet
There’s one guy in my department who does all the smart home shit, but I absolutely don’t see the point in it. Didn’t even connect the washing machine to the wi-fi as you can’t set it going without having loaded it first anyway.
I could see having lights on a somewhat sophisticated timer. Like having bedroom lighting that simulates dawn, fades on etc. Maybe making a thermostat a little bit more sophisticated. I'd like to live in a world where I could trust the power company to tell me when electricity is abundant and scarce but we're gonna have to win Civil War 2 before we get that. My toilet and faucets do not need any digital technology at all.
If it doesn't work well without the Internet, it's a bad investment. Features that require the Internet degrading a bit is one thing, but if a toilet or toaster can't do its basic job offline, it was ewaste the second it rolled off the factory line.
Same goes for games BTW
Fuck online requirements
Recently noticed how many of my "offline single player" games did not actually work offline, after moving and being without internet for a while.
To anyone reading this, try unplugging your PC and check what your options actually are. I was really disappointed about not being "allowed" to play Red Dead.
or toaster can't do its basic job offline
pats my 1962 Sunbeam Radiant Toaster
Obligatory Red Dwarf toaster scene
The way Salima found out that Boulangism had gone bankrupt: her toaster wouldn’t accept her bread. She held the slice in front of it and waited for the screen to show her a thumbs-up emoji, but instead, it showed her the head-scratching face and made a soft brrt. She waved the bread again. Brrt.
“Come on.” Brrt.
She turned the toaster off and on. Then she unplugged it, counted to ten, and plugged it in. Then she menued through the screens until she found RESET TO FACTORY DEFAULT, waited three minutes, and punched her Wi-Fi password in again.
Brrt.
Long before she got to that point, she’d grown certain that it was a lost cause. But these were the steps that you took when the electronics stopped working, so you could call the 800 number and say, “I’ve turned it off and on, I’ve unplugged it, I’ve reset it to factory defaults and…”
There was a touchscreen option on the toaster to call support, but that wasn’t working, so she used the fridge to look up the number and call it. It rang seventeen times and disconnected. She heaved a sigh. Another one bites the dust.
The toaster wasn’t the first appliance to go (that honor went to the dishwasher, which stopped being able to validate third-party dishes the week before when Disher went under), but it was the last straw. She could wash dishes in the sink but how the hell was she supposed to make toast—over a candle?
Just to be sure, she asked the fridge for headlines about Boulangism, and there it was, their cloud had burst in the night. Socials crawling with people furious about their daily bread. She prodded a headline and learned that Boulangism had been a ghost ship for at least six months because that’s how long security researchers had been contacting the company to tell it that all its user data—passwords, log-ins, ordering and billing details—had been hanging out there on the public internet with no password or encryption. There were ransom notes in the database, records inserted by hackers demanding cryptocurrency payouts in exchange for keeping the dirty secret of Boulangism’s shitty data handling. No one had even seen them.
Boulangism’s share price had declined by 98 percent over the past year. There might not even be a Boulangism anymore. When Salima had pictured Boulangism, she’d imagined the French bakery that was on the toaster’s idle-screen, dusted with flour, woodblock tables with serried ranks of crusty loaves. She’d pictured a rickety staircase leading up from the bakery to a suite of cramped offices overlooking a cobbled road. She’d pictured gas lamps.
The article had a street-view shot of Boulangism’s headquarters, a four-story office block in Pune, near Mumbai, walled in with an unattended guard booth at the street entrance.
The Boulangism cloud had burst and that meant that there was no one answering Salima’s toaster when it asked if the bread she was about to toast had come from an authorized Boulangism baker, which it had. In the absence of a reply, the paranoid little gadget would assume that Salima was in that class of nefarious fraudsters who bought a discounted Boulangism toaster and then tried to renege on her end of the bargain by inserting unauthorized bread, which had consequences ranging from kitchen fires to suboptimal toast (Boulangism was able to adjust its toasting routine in realtime to adjust for relative kitchen humidity and the age of the bread, and of course it would refuse to toast bread that had become unsalvageably stale), to say nothing of the loss of profits for the company and its shareholders. Without those profits, there’d be no surplus capital to divert to RD, creating the continuous improvement that meant that hardly a day went by without Salima and millions of other Boulangism stakeholders (never just “customers”) waking up with exciting new firmware for their beloved toasters.
And what of the Boulangism baker-partners? They’d done the right thing, signing up for a Boulangism license, subjecting their process to inspections and quality assurance that meant that their bread had exactly the right composition to toast perfectly in Boulangism’s precision-engineered appliances, with crumb and porosity in perfect balance to absorb butter and other spreads. These valued partners deserved to have their commitment to excellence honored, not cast aside by bargain-hunting cheaters who wanted to recklessly toast any old bread.
Salima knew these arguments, even before her stupid toaster played her the video explaining them, which it did after three unsuccessful bread-authorization attempts, playing without a pause or mute button as a combination of punishment and reeducation campaign.
She tried to search her fridge for “boulangism hacks” and “boulangism unlock codes” but appliances stuck together. KitchenAid’s network filters gobbled up her queries and spat back snarky “no results” screens even though Salima knew perfectly well that there was a whole underground economy devoted to unauthorized bread.
She had to leave for work in half an hour, and she hadn’t even showered yet, but goddamnit, first the dishwasher and now the toaster. She found her laptop, used when she’d gotten it, now barely functional. Its battery was long dead and she had to unplug her toothbrush to free up a charger cable, but after she had booted it and let it run its dozens of software updates, she was able to run the darknet browser she still had kicking around and do some judicious googling.
She was forty-five minutes late to work that day, but she had toast for breakfast. Goddamnit.
The dishwasher was next. Once Salima had found the right forum, it would have been crazy not to unlock the thing. After all, she……….. 😉
Cory Doctorow's book, Radicalized, is up for a CBC award. To celebrate, here's an excerpt.
The difference between an IT person and a tech enthusiast
Laughs nervously in self-hosted
"Routers using OpenWRT"
Every time I research this, it seems like nothing I can reasonably acquire can run it. Especially any WiFi 6 / AX devices. It's infuriating.
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future!
Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
Security technicians: takes a deep swig of whiskey I wish I had been born in the neolithic.
Im studying the security stuff. The more you think about it, the more paranoid you become until you notice that your level of paranoia is far too high and try to ignore things.
Firmwares everywhere are definitely spying on us. Or at leasty they could, and we wouldn't really know it.
My sister's new apartment's front door has a "smart lock", hooked up to Ring, naturally. No keyhole, you open it with your phone. It also runs on batteries.
Do I really need to say any more? We were baffled.
EDIT: Correction - there IS a keyhole but the actual tenants don't have access to it. Only the property management. Creepy. :|
I have one too but it has an emergency physical "master key". Also there's a port to provide power to it through a battery bank, in case you really run out of juice though it's potentially another point of failure. No internet connection
I have a Nuki this one still works with a normal key, since you install it on top of your existing double cylinder (you should only install it on one that can have two keys inserted at the same time or with a turn knob on one side). The Nuki just turns the key or thumb turn of the cylinder. Also means you can’t see that a smart lock is installed from the outside. Battery is not a problem since they last for about 5 months. And you get a warning when it reaches 20%.
I got a Proteus IV system. Now I’m dead and my wife is knocked up.
I have a smart deadbolt that is keypad operated. It’s awful.
Never used the smart features, and there isn’t a bypass to unlock the door when the batteries die — which happens a lot, especially in the winter. I tried using rechargeable batteries in it, but they last less than half the time of normal batteries.
There is nothing more frustrating than punching in the key code and hearing the death of HAL9000 voice before the deadbolt fully unlocks. Luckily I have a back door that isn’t smart.
I’m replacing the lockset soon and this won’t be a problem anymore, but holy shit is it frustrating and wasteful.
Kwikset keypad works great for me. There's a keyhole, a real button keypad, and the batteries last a while with quite a bit of warning before they're actually dead.
"Hello amazon I'm a police, I need you to unlock this door at 123 Rainy St, Arlen TX 76043"
"Ok Mr. Police right away!"
Sounds great!
I've seen landlords put these things on doors, too, and use them to allow entrance to anyone they think has a reason to be inside, whether the resident knows and consents or not.
LOL relevant meme attached:
Arlen TX
Weird coincidence seeing this right after finishing an episode of King of the Hill. LOL
"Yo man dang'ol smartlock open up man left my daggum phone in there tell ya what."
"I'm sorry, can you repeat that?"
What's the brand?
Honestly I'm not sure, I only got a look at it when I was helping her move.
It's tied to a wall panel on the other side that controls the whole unit's lighting and thermostat and such though, and shows a doorbell cam.
Educated guess that it's all tied to Amazon. Blegh.
Allegedly they're just supposed to rely on maintenance to change the batteries so they're not locked out of their home. Crazy.
What if there was no internet connection? Would they be able to get in their house?
I was watching a friend's dogs while she was on vacation when the batteries in her door lock died. I had to climb in a back window to get inside and feed them. Luckily, there was a back door with a dumb lock, but I had to get inside first and borrow her keys for that to help.
Anything in my house smarter than the IKEA remote control light switch gets crushed with a hammer.
I mean, you could just use smarter stuff that's open source and has local API, or do what I do and build your own devices where you can ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even there though, what is the actual point of a phone app controlled smart toilet, even if you open sourced the whole thing? Unlocking one's phone and tapping the app icon, and then presumably a button on the app, is going to take more time than one press of a lever that one is right next to anyway, and the latter doesn't present as many points of failure.
I wish I was this smart. We really want to do a smart light show using Xlights but every time I try to learn it I feel so frankly dumb.
You sent this message by manually sending radio messages, I presume?
No, it’s one of the few use cases of emacs.
Friends hate this one simple trick!
Can you play DOOM on the light switch?
This has the same energy as buying But Light to shoot.
Same, the only thing talkings to the internet are my reverse proxy and the security cameras (only when viewing them from outside the local network, quite like what reolink does there)
The fact that everything is controlled through "The Cloud" and some godforsaken subscription service is so terribly sad, funny, and horrifying at the same time. We've literally found every conceivable way to gather and sell people's data while simultaneously milking them out of every last cent with the whole FOMO mentality driven through every piece of hardware and software now sold. It is just absolutely fucking preposterous. We're living in a virtual hellscape that doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.
People have other options, but the easiest option is always going to be to let someone else do it. Their price is, almost always, your private data and a subscription.
Or, you can DIY and self-host. Home Assistant is free and supports many different standards so you can use just about any hardware. It runs on your own hardware and doesn't report to anyone unless you tell it to. It requires more effort than swiping a credit card and installing an app, however.
I've put a few smart lights/switches/sensors/power points in at home. Definitely helps mum as we can have wireless switches for the lights, and motion sensors to turn the hallway lights on automatically as well.
For ALL of them, I make sure there is a manual control that will work as a backup regardless. Even if a smart light is "off" due to the motion sensor not detecting movement, all you need to do is turn the old regular light switch off then back on and the light will default to being back on.
Same. I have TOPGREENER power monitors on all my major applications. Tracking kWh usage. Smart bulbs all through out the house and smart speakers located within speaking distance. Plus a hodge podge of cameras doing 24/7 monitoring.
Ye. I have all Ikea smart stuff, by default everything is running a local mesh network with physical remotes and that light switch backup.
You don't even need to connect any of it to the net, buying a hub to get app & google home/alexa/etc control is entirely optional with the exception of a few sensors, like the moisture/water leak one. And even then, the app & hub work on local wifi with no internet anyway.
Who buys a toilet you can only flush with an app??
sometime who buys a toilet and then finds out afterwards that they were sold a toilet that only flushes with an app
This. SO many devices, especially networking stuff. It seems like they should just do their thing after plugging in and setting a few settings. "It's so EZ!" says the box.
Nope, "scan this code to get this app, make an account, agree to all the things, register for spam..."
It's disgusting.
I don't think any of these people know what "smart" is supposed to mean cause these must be the dumbest ideas for any product I've heard so far.
'Smart' means it can send your lifestyle data to the company, and make you dependent on their services.
You want to change your toilet provider? Best of luck holding your poo in for three days while the transfer is processed.
Mostly to be more efficient and save water, though I couldn't fathom how that would work with a toilet. Perhaps it's part of a system to monitor your water usage to help you reduce your use? Maybe the app suggests to let it mellow when it's yellow?
Well, shit.
Well put.
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
Douglas Adams
Adams's law.
If one day there is only smart toilets, I will go shit in the woods and start to live like an animal. Clearly humanity was a mistake and we should return to monke
The problem isn't necessarily smart toilets. The problem is companies attempting to have complete control over the product and ensuring that their products do not function without dependency on their infrastructure.
There is no functional reason to have a toilet connect to an outside server. There are no functional reasons to have many of these smart devices require outside dependencies. But their profits and their subscription models definitely benefit from being able to remotely disable features.
Technology is garbage not because we've gone too far with Technology. Technology is garbage because of capitalism.
Right? If I can't flush my toilet with nothing more than a bucket of water, if necessary, then I don't want to shit in it.
Sounds like the beginning of the Cory Doctorow novella “Unauthorized Bread.” Cloud service goes down and the main character’s toaster won’t work without them.
Why would you ever get a toilet that requires anything but the laws of physics to operate?
I mean... Electronics and the Internet are also following the laws of physics. But I get what you mean, levers should be the only activation, and gravity should be the only requirement.
That being said, electronics in our devices do tend to reduce the amount of water and power that appliances use. Dumb devices are extremely inefficient, even though there are fewer points of failure.
It sucks that a 1950's fridge can still function just fine today, but it also is a bigger strain on the power grid, and a leak in the refrigerant would destroy the ozone.
> That being said, electronics in our devices do tend to reduce the amount of water and power that appliances use. Dumb devices are extremely inefficient, even though there are fewer points of failure.
I fail to see how electronics in these (unpowered) devices in any way reduce the amount of power that they use.
Yeah I think the meaning of the above comment boils down to "If it doesn't have a simple fallback, it can't be trusted".
You're already @ the mf toilet too, or the sink. what is even the purported purpose of remotely activating something you have to stand there to use?
I can see some purpose in having a 'smart' toilet for monitoring health. Your pee and poo can have some value in seeing if there anything that needs to be dealt with medically. But even that is difficult to do. For one thing, it must still function ad a toilet first before anything. Meaning it uses the simple mechanical flushing and refilling and stopping when it is sufficiently full.
However for this the analysis and storage of data must be 100% at the user's control. If they want it gone. It is gone. Irrecoverable. Any update must be done via USB or other connection. No wifi or internet.
And even then the analysis can be off for obvious reasons. People need to scrub their toilets and some keep it clean by having one of those pucks in the tank that sanitize the water. All of these can interfere with any results out of a medical setting.
My new eFirepit is causing my family to die of hypothermia.
At least the tech director believes enough on their product to actually use it.
This is why I go the extra mile to keep iot out of my life. Especially in cars , which is getting hard, but I figure my future cars I'll likely retrofit something old. Newest I'll tolerate is 2014, with no touchscreen.
Yea I'm not using anything that requires an app. If there's an app I can host myself I might use it but I won't rely on anything that can't be controlled manually. The place I rent now has ceiling fans that are controlled by remote and I fucking hate them. It uses a shitty up/down button that has a horrendous delay or both the light and fan. It's all the frustration of using a pull chain with no improvement. I can't even figure out how to get it to switch directions for winter.
My car is probably going to die soon and I'm going to have trouble replacing it with something that actually has physical controls, doesn't have a massive annoying touch screen, doesn't have LED headlights set blinds everybody driving towards me or walking their dogs, isn't a compact crossover bloated to the size of an SUV from 20 years ago, and can fit 8 ft length of raw material in it.
Or rather I'm going to have trouble replacing it with something that I like for a decent price that isn't too old and isn't a van. Not necessarily because vans suck, vans are great. But the good ones are expensive, even used
How the fuck can a faucet be smart? It's a valve! It turns one way, or it turns the other way! It is only slightly less dumb than the counter top!
But what if the valve was actuated electronically with no manual access?
Yeah but what if you could make it worse? What if you could add the garbage motion sensor that takes ten hand waves to get working? Or add a touch screen that showed you visually how hot or cold the water was and could also show you ads?
And this is why KNX and Home Assistant are a good idea.
This is a great time for the engineer to exert leverage.
"Yes, I can fix it in hours. Here are my demands:
It's like the forcefields in the brig on Star Trek. Extremely stupid to not also have bars as a backup in case they fail.
I don't understand the idiots who insist on unredundant designs. Especially when it comes to handles. They've literally killed people with that decision.
Terminally online, even for #2
"oNe dAy wE wiLL aLL livE iN a sMaRt hOmE. tEcHnOLoGy aLwAyS iMpRoVeS"
"Dumb" is the new "smart".
What's "Skynet" mode, lol?
Footage from a robot in skynet mode:
!it's from the movie Runaway 1984!<
They have knives, and you didn't put them there
Flag Admiral Stabby earned that knife.
Okay, I get the idea of smart AC for example - be elsewhere, turn it on remotely so that it's comfortable when you get home. Fine. But a toilet? You are physically present there, you can push a button to flush. Or are you telling me that you're shitting remotely now too?
you're shitting remotely now too?
Do we tell them about the remote shit technology that just landed from Uranus?
Wait, so you're not subscribed to shitme™? For a low monthly subscription they send you a sealed, self-addressed and postage-paid container to deposit your feces in, it gets sent to a sorting facility and distributed via drones or delivery drivers directly to your home toilet, where the feces are flushed in the privacy and safety of your own home! The peace-of-mind alone is worth the $39.98 a month. Up until now, the only challenge has been flushing the toilet while you're still at the office, this way you NEVER have to go home!
Shit like a world leader
Hans free means you don't have to touch the handle with dirty hands, but you can do that with a motion sensor too.
We've been ready for pedal activated toilets for decades now
And yet I hear dumbshits bragging all time about how alexa controls my (insert thing that definitely does not need automation here).
These sort of people never think beyond tomorrow and it shows.
The only thing smart I want is a faucet that activates with button OR the knee / foot sensor, and gives water always with a precise programmed temperature and flow.
That and a temperature and timer controlled frying pan.
Well an incinerating toilet that just dries burns my shit using a 340W solar panel would be cool too.
For that last one, why not shit in your microwave and set it to 340W. That would easily allow you to test the system without buying any new appliance, except for a microwave if you don't have one.
Imagine cleaning the splatter after all the corn boils and pops in there
Well an incinerating toilet that just dries burns my shit using a 340W solar panel would be cool too.
Gonna smell real bad
Someone actually invented Tony the Toilet Buddy
rofl. this is great.
I think that any electromechanical system that does not allow a mechanical override or at least a redundancy are doomed to fail. I don't know why these IOT entrepreneurs don't take in account that software and electronics are faulty systems, ignoring decades of experience in the subject.
Nah I'm an innovator! I'll just innovate a better chip that'll never fail and software that has no bugs!
Proceeds to put Linux on a common SoC and load it with shoddy software from a low paid contractor.
Home assistant everything is a yaml away
Has nobody else pointed out this is clearly not real?