6mo ago

Android is now warning of Firefox sharing data

Found this notification this morning on my pixel 6.

267 comments

Even if this isn't entirely true, you know Google wouldn't pass up the opportunity to reduce Firefox market share to scare everyone back to Chrome.
- I wonder if they say people should be careful with Chrome 😂
  
  they don't have to! they microsoft explorered that shit
- There's no need to reduce Firefox marketshare. Most people don't even consider using anything else than whatever is default in their device.
  Also, it's not a Google scare tactic or a flex. Every application on the Play Store must disclose the general outlines of their data policy, including the sharing of data. Lying with those checkbox is not a good idea but they are completely informative and put there by the publishing party, so the people responsible for publishing Firefox on mobile just updated these, and this is what is shown when an app publisher say their app is sharing data with third parties.
  tl;dr: it's very likely that not a single soul at Google even looked at this, as this is just the regular behavior of the Play Store with apps that changes their data policy or indicate sharing user data with third parties.
  
  Why the dichotomy between the chrome listing on the store then?
- There isn't to much to reduce. I don't think Google is scared or afraid by Firefox, like at all.
- Lol if Google really wanted to kill FF they would just stop paying them half a billion a year.
- Firefox? You mean the company they give several hundred million dollars/year? Yeah I don't think they're too worried. They need some number of users on Firefox to prevent anti-trust issues. Which they're on the brink of right now.
  
  you're right Google's not worried.
  as for anti-trust, they're already in sentencing phase.
- So you're advocating that Google shouldn't broadcast that firefox is broadcasting your current location? Even though they do this for every other app available on Android, you're saying they shouldn't do this for firefox?
  Why?
  
  This notice is effectively added by the Firefox developers when they select the ability to enable location services and also tick a box thay they collect data.
  
  They want to scare people to stay on Chrome now that they discontinued support of uBlock (not that it was ever supported on Chrome for Android anyway)

Google warning you about Mozilla is just peak fucking irony

God damn why's the world so shit
- i know, thats some really late stage capitalism bullshit.
- It really is. Literally everything is shit and I'm so fucking over it.
- God damn why’s the world so shit
  Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about their own kind/tribe, is why.
  _This _comment _is _licensed _under _CC _BY-NC-SA _4.0
  
  Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about ~~their own kind/tribe~~ themselves, is why.
- My understanding is this is due to regions broadening the definition of "sell" to include any form of personal data transfer. So Mozilla giving location info (with consent if you enable "ask every time" in the permissions) to websites to look up local store hours or whatever is "selling data."
  AFAIK, nothing has changed in Firefox.

"Quick! Jump to chrome instead!" - Google spokesperson

FWIW I'm not seeing this on the Play Store for Firefox 136.0.1 on my Pixel 8a, and I'm not seeing any warnings on Beta or Nightly either:
- I don't see it from installs direct via Obtainium, either.

i mean it's just because you can grant websites location data and toggle telemetry.

As of the latest Chrome update on PC, they have dropped support for uBlock. You can still technically enable it, but they disabled it by default once you update.
That got me back to Firefox with breakneck speed.
- Hopefully soon Librewolf, Fennec F-droid and other forks will become mainstream.
  I haven't switched to Librewolf on pc yet; hoping that turning off the telemetry/etc options in ff is enough, but I'm starting to think it might not be long.
  
  I switched over to LibreWolf recently. I discovered Vivaldi just a few hours before I learned about the Manifest v3 stuff for Chromium (which is a shame because I actually LOVED Vivaldi). I really want to try Zen Browser, but I’m using old, 2011-era Macs (running Ubuntu 24.04 on one) and it won’t install. LibreWolf is great because of its clean, minimal design and absolute privacy-forward thinking. I’ve enjoyed it so far (and I’m only running it on the Ubuntu machine).
  
  I was that same way with Firefox for a while, but after I gave Librewolf a long-term test drive I stuck with it.
  If you’re used to Firefox with the privacy stuff cranked up, from a user perspective Librewolf is basically just that. But I like knowing that some of the Mozilla stuff is actually removed.
  They also roll out updates quickly. I’m pretty sure I updated Firefox and Librewolf to 136.0.1 today just hours apart.
  
  I want to switch over further but so far I've had so much else going on that data privacy hasn't taken a priority. Things are getting weird now so it is time for a priority change.
- Frankly speaking, calling out Google and Chrome, then moving to Firefox while Mozilla have been doing it's best Google impression for years now is not that great of a plan.
  I wonder how long Firefox will be ok with all that, since Mozilla bought that advertisement business a while ago.
  
  The main problem is that building a web browser is extremely difficult and everyone else uses Google's version of WebKit. So there's no alternatives: it's either Google or Mozilla. Forks don't count because if some functionality that end users need is deprecated, nobody will maintain it and it will just disappear once it's removed from the main codebase

That's a regular notification, which would happen for any application whose data policy is changed on the Play Store page. These policy are as declared by the app publisher. This would be the same for any application that didn't check that "sharing data with third party" box earlier, then checked it later on.
- I don't get what your comment is getting at. I don't view this post as saying anything special or unique about the notification. I see it as a warning that Firefox is now doing this.
  
  Have you read all the other replies? "Google mad", "Google putting Firefox in the dirt", "False info", etc.
  
  The legal definition of "sell" has changed in several major markets, and that's (supposedly) why Firefox has recently changed their terms. The word "sell" is now ostensibly broad enough to include "give to anybody for any reason", including if you use Firefox for any reason where you would legitimately want and need Firefox to give ("sell") your data - for example if you use it for: literally any shopping or even just browsing store pages; any interactive (real world) maps where you may want to use your location; any searches where you want local businesses to be listed; any search engine that may want to use your location to aid in results; etc. etc. etc.
  Any legitimate exchange of data can now be construed as "selling" because of the new legal definitions, regardless of if anyone is actually selling anything.
  It's very possible that nothing has changed - that Firefox hasn't started selling user data, they're just updating their terms (and this app listing) to reflect the changes in the legal definitions of "sell".

Isn't that just because Firefox got access to location data because some site asked for it?
- Yep. Like a map website...
- commenting cus I also have the same question

Google: "Forcing us to divest Chrome could have impacts on our ability to support Mozilla and their high executive salaries as we own the space with Chrome."
Also Google:

Wait a second. You're expecting Google to not FUD? Ha ha ha oh wow. I mean I didn't actually expect them to do so, but yeah.
- Wth is fud?
  
  Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. It’s more commonly used in crypto communities.
  
  Elmer
- Expected, no. Surprised, also no.

Okay, turned it off. If a site needs my location it can ask me and I can politely tell it to fuck off unless it has a warrant.

Pretty easy to disable the location app permission or set it to ask every time. Firefox hasn't asked me to enable it since turning it off.
- Yeah I'm pretty sure Firefox won't ask for or use your location, unless a website wants it for some reason (which is almost never a good one).
  
  and even then, for me at least, the dialog that pops up is broken and lot of times the "Allow" button literally does nothing
- Didn't they also elude to collecting telemetry recently? I know it's up for some debate but, if true, I'm not sure that's a thing we can turn off.

Deactivate from settings Have https always on, protection against tracking on strict, data collection and daily ping on off.
And that's it.

Do they mean “Firefox can get your location data to pass on to pages you give permission to, who we cannot guarantee won’t share it with advertisers” or “Firefox reserves the right to do a deal to monetise the tantalising firehose of location data coming from your device unless you specifically opt out”?
- The former, but the language looks vague enough that they could do the latter eventually. My understanding is that they have to be vague in the language for legal reasons (e.g. to appease regulators in various markets).
- Who can say

Friendship ended with Firefox. Waterfox is my new best friend ❤️
- IceCat.
  
  Unfortunately I am primarily an android user, as I always have my phone with me.
  I shall give it a go for desktop at some point though

So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla's location provider instead of Google's?
This might mean that we would have no true free location provider left.
Edit: just was thinking, what does this mean for Firefox forks that also use Mozilla's location service?
- So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla's location provider instead of Google's?
  Nothing, because they dont sell location data, this just seems like a routine warning that pops up when ToS and Privacy policy changes, and since they have clarified their position on this matter, (not to mention the lack of alternative FOSS web engines). We really shouldn't let this bother us
  Of course i might be wrong and it may come out that Mozilla has turned heel(lot of heel turning happening lately)
- wait, mozilla has a location provider? maybe there is open street map, idk what's the difference between a map and a location provider
  
  My (probably incomplete) understanding is: phones have a GNSS chip (such as GPS, Galileo, or Glonass), but getting location from that takes a long time and a lot of battery. So they estimate location based on other information such as what cell tower they are connected to and the list of available wi-fi networks. This requires a database with all that info, which Google built through its Street View cars.
  So the location provider is a service to which your phone sends all the info it has and which replies with an estimate of your location; which means it handles a lot of sensitive data.
  
  Nah, open street maps is part of an open source map initiative with Meta and Microsoft, we're safe there....
- No custom ROM use MLS anymore. It was shut down a few years ago.
  Anyway, in general, apps get their location data from Play Services.
  Apps that don't use Play Services get data from the default provider, which is always Google.
  The successor of MLS is BeaconDB.
- Fork it, split it off, share it.

Firefox engines have telemetry since old ages. Do you know what even crazier ??? even other firefox browser like fennec has Mozilla telemetry.

PSA : disable it with Blocker (ROOT) for more privacy
- Sending telemetry like crashes and what features you use/don't use isn't really in the same category as using location data for marketing purposes. It's a very important distinction to draw.
- It has a mozilla telemetry component, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily reporting to mozilla - which wouldn't make much sense anyway - nor that it actually functions at all. Most telemetry components in Firefox can't simply be deleted because it causes stuff to break, so they are replaced with stubs that don't actually do anything.
  
  Assuming that's all it's really doing.
- For a novice, what exactly is Blocker (ROOT)? Is it an app, a setting, or a configuration?
  
  Its app that you can downloaded in F-Droid, basically it's a app that can control other app components. But before that you must Root/Unlock bootloader

Alright gang, what are some good open source Firefox forks available on Android and Linux?
- Librewolf for Linux. And ironfox on android
  
  On Desktop I use Zen Browser. On Android I still use Brave, but I'm considering switching to a non chromium browser there some time.
- Waterfox

I had already downloaded and installed Ironfox (FF Android fork) on my phone and have been using it for a week or so. It works identically to FF for android. Ublock Origin is working in Ironfox too.

Fennec is great on Android
- I've been pretty happy with it as my casual web search browser, putting all my social media on a different browser. And it's in F-Droid, so that always feels good.

The DDG app shows no 3rd party tracking attempts made by Firefox at all... So far...
- Yeah. People can avoid all this nonsense by installing one simple app... Duck duck go browser.
  You don't have to use the browser. It just sits in the background quietly blocking tracking requests from other apps.
  It's absolutely horrifying on first use to see how egregious tracking is.
  
  There's also the PersonalDNSFilter which does the equivalent while being a tiny open-source app that serves only for that purpose and also somehow still not getting banned from the Google Play store or AdAway which also has this feature or TrackerControl or...
  
  That's not how it works. Apps cannot access the traffic of other apps, let alone decrypt it. There is no way DDG Browser does what you claim it does. They do not even claim that themselves.
  EDIT: Unless, of course, it works as a VPN, which apparently it does.
  
  deadass? I just use adguard

pot -> kettle
- Explain?

Do they share location data without asking though? Google has an incentive to exaggerate.

NnnnnoooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOO

use ironfox or fennec

I stopped my donations to Mozilla.

You know what they say about people who live in glass houses...
- Don't advertise others' locations?

Sigh

Either die a hero……

Looks like its enshittification continues unabated :/

Been using Libre Wolf, no issues so far. Fuck Firefox
- Librewolf is Firefox plus some light patches, and as such depends entirely from Firefox.
  
  It looks like they have a team and it’s open-source. It’s a gamble, but I’m guessing the death of Firefox would probably be a boon, not a hinderance, depending on who supports what from there.
- Does libre wolf have an android app?
  
  IronFox is the closest alternative. F-Droid repo here:
  https://f-droid.org/packages/org.ironfoxoss.ironfox/
  
  Fennec but I think it still shares some data

How about turning off data sharing in whole android... Google...

Iceraven hasn't burned me yet

Does anyone know if Blockada mitigates this problem on Android?

does anyone actually have a good privacy in mind alternative with sources to back it up?

Well, if there was any doubt before, with the weird ToS p.r. dance they were doing last week, now we know, for sure.
I've already switched to LibreWolf on the desktop. Is there a good non-Firefox browser for Android available?
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- IronFox, Fennec, Mull, Tor Browser
  
  Mull is supposedly no longer being developed.

I don't use default firefox for this damn reason.. I hope that Mull Fork gets going soon.. I've been in refuge in IceRaven since that time..
- Ironfox?
  
  yeah that one, I forgot I have it installed haha but it looks promising if proven to be reliable in updating to new versions

Well, there seem to be some good safe alternatives. I am currently switching from Firefox to Vivaldi, for example.
- Isn't Vivaldi a chromium browser?
  
  Hmm I didn't know that. I was looking for more data privacy. However, there seem to be good alternatives.

Any good browser suggestion??
- fennec - it's foss firefox mod, without google and other tracking garbage
- I like Zen. Waterfox is also good.
  
  for android?
  
  I like Vivaldi
- Vivaldi
  
  That's chromium based. Having more firefox based browsers helps take away the dominate control Google has on browsers.

calyxos here I come

Many Linux distributions will need to dig Firefox looks like . I use Fennec btw , and in desktop Libre wolf since a long time.

Are you aware of Firefox's changes to their privacy policy that has been in the news the past 2 weeks? If not you can easily find articles and youtuve videos on it.
- That's why I'm posting this 🤷‍♂️
  
  I didn't mean it to come across as insulting or anything. I meant it all genuinely to be helpful
- You should just post the articles and videos.
  
  They have been posted.
  Edit:
  Don’t call me unless I gave you my number
  Why would anyone here call you, and how would they even have your number in the first place?
  
  Or I was busy and gave a quick and still helpful response

Vivaldi is where it’s at
- Nope. That’s still chromium based and further serves Google’s monopoly on the web platform.
  
  That said I’m open to better alternatives. I’m working hard to protect myself.
  
  Strips out all the tracking bullshit
- It's closed source and chrome(ium)(?) based. I'm not entirely convinced by Vivaldi.
- No, it's really not. Fuck chromium of all flavors.

Fanboys of Firefox: "DUHB DUHB USE FIREFOX CUZ IT NOT CHROME DUHB DUHB!"
- Genuine question to see if the downvotes are justified or not : are you implying Chrome is a good browser and if so, why?
  
  Down votes are justified for acting like a douche
  
  The downvotes are idiotic fanboys who faithfully clutch Firefox like rosary beads because it isn't chrome.
  Why the fuck would anyone imply that I think Chrome is any better? It only tells me they're fucking morons.
- I personally don't want there to be only one browser engine - Chrome. All other browsers use their engine, or the one powering Firefox. That's actually my main concern. I don't know about you, but Chromium being the only web browser in the world is pretty fuckin scary.
  
  Where did I ever say or imply that Chrome is the only option? A lot of you just misinterpret me on purpose, downvote parade galore just to stomp all over someone to make yourselves feel good about it. God, people really are this fucking stupid.
- Just use chrome man, that will really take the fight to the next level

267 comments