🐆 Right-wing trans woman finds out "gender-criticals" cannot be reasoned with

What’s more, if she would just embrace who she is, reject the bigots, and joins the lgbt community…. She will find people who will treat her well. And maybe together maybe we can build a better world…..

Oh, they ask for more than they want.

We can even scare our own allies by “making nice” with villains.

There's a difference between "making nice" in the sense of compromising values as you mention and between giving them a chance to prove they can grow out of their hateful mindset. They'll have to work for that trust, but we should be willing to forgive and accept them back if they show genuine change.

It wouldn't be directly moving into your home, but more like the general neighbourhood. If they turn it good neighbours, then their past hostilities can serve as a lesson and an object study, but shouldn't eternally shackle them.

We should also understand that some people can't forgive some wounds. Just because it's the ideal doesn't mean it will, can or even has to be fully attained.

The trans athlete debate was a solved problem before the right wing learned about it. Let the professional authority body of whatever sport, in collaboration with relevant medical professionals, determine what hormone levels or transition progress is qualifying or unqualifying in each individual sport in a case by case basis. Because we tried this before, with genetic testing of Olympic female athletes and enough turned out intersex or androgyn disordered that they stopped doing it.

I want MORE right wing idiots to realize they’re wrong and join our camp.

I don't think she's a "right wing idiot" or that she's seriously joining anyone's camp. She's just an influencer trying to pull a new source of revenue.

Okay, you were a huge idiot

She was wrong, certainly. But the play - sucking up to right-wing oligarchs in hopes of a six or seven digit payday down the line - wasn't stupid. It was a calculated risk that failed to pay out.

If we don’t we’ll make it harder for people to move out of the right wing camp, and I want muchuch less people in the right wing camp

This isn't an issue of physical camps. She's not joining a military and putting on a uniform. She's fishing for dupes to send her money, because her old income streams have dried up.

This is less "winning someone over to a camp" and more "trying to bribe an unreliable mercenary".

The fact that she's admitting she was wrong about the one issue that personally affects her doesn't mean she's not a genocidal fascist anymore.

Underage sex and HRT are not really comparable.

That said I advocate for puberty blockers rather than HRT for adolescents myself. That allows them to safely postpone their decision if they are unsure and lets them decide when they are adults.

I'm not a doctor though, it's best to ask an endocrinologist (I think) to determine what's best for a child.

You're right. We should put all teenagers on puberty blockers until age 18. The high E or T spikes that occur with natal puberty dramatically change the body. And, we know that people absolutely can have puberty safely delayed for a long time. The AVERAGE age for girls to reach menarche was 17-18 before the industrial revolution. We actually have kids going through puberty at an age that is radically young by historical standards.

So we should put all kids, cis or trans, on puberty blockers. That way we don't have to worry about a cis kid mistakenly starting transition, or a trans kid not realizing they're trans in time and having to go through a natal puberty. Everyone just puts off puberty until they're done with high school. As a bonus, no more teen pregnancy!

/s

But really, the answer to your question is that it's poorly framed. We do let children, well specifically teenagers, consent to sex. But, just like trans healthcare, we do it in very carefully controlled settings. Teenagers are going to have sex. That's something that is simply going to happen. So in sane places, we have kids go through sex education. We teach them safe sex practices and teach them on healthy relationship patterns. And we try to encourage any teens that do choose to be sexually active to use protection and get on birth control. Oh, and we legally regulate teen sex without trying to ban it. We pass Romeo and Juliet laws that try to thread the needle. You don't want 40 year olds sleeping with 12 year olds, but you also don't want to put a 15-year old on the sex offender registry for sleeping with their 14-year old classmate. You use your brain, don't fall for moral panics, and try to design systems that navigate a very complex ethical landscape.

And really it's the same here. We're talking about people in the exact same age range - people 12-18. And we handle gender-affirming care for minors with a similar complexity and intelligence. We don't let 12 year old trans boys go on Amazon and order up vials of T shots. But we also don't infantilize trans kids either. We have them go through therapy and clinical assessment. We have clinical guidelines on what treatment is appropriate when. And most importantly, we don't fall for the naturalistic fallacy, which you have done. We recognize that just because something is natural does not mean it is good or desirable. Forcing a trans kid to go through a natal puberty is just as cruel and barbaric as dosing a cis kid with cross-sex hormones against their will. And we recognize that barbarity of telling 100 trans kids that they simply have to go through the trauma of natal puberty, just in case one of them happens to regret it later. In other words, we place equal value on the lives and well-being of cis kids and trans kids. You, however, seem to follow the rule of "it is acceptable for a hundred trans kids to suffer through Hell on Earth if it prevents one cis kid from mistakenly transitioning." You fundamentally do not place equal value on the lives of cis and trans people.

It works the same way that children approach other invasive medical interventions. If there's great harm and a costly intervention, then child, parents, and doctors work to decide if the intervention is appropriate. As a nice black and white example, it would be unthinkable to avoid giving a young leukemia patient chemotherapy where necessary.

Thus, the threat of harm has to be measured, and the danger of the treatment has to be measured. This happens. We understand that cases of gender dysphoria can cause real harm. These are only diagnosed when a child demonstrates a "persistent, insistent, and consistent" transgender identity. The doctors working with these children do the due diligence to ensure these are real cases with a strong need: the cases where we would be doing harm by failing to act.

Puberty blockers, despite unwarranted infamy, are excellent for buying a little time to ensure the proper judgement. These do not usually have permanent consequences. Other HRT treatments can be applied when we have high confidence that they are preventing harm. Again, that's pretty much like any other invasive pediatric treatment.

Good thing puberty blockers are reversible.

But you don't actually care about that do you? You'll just move the goalposts.

I agree parents should not force kids to have piercings. However trans health is a healthcare issue, like other health conditions. There is a problem that is causing suffering. In healthcare, we typically rely on parents as guardians to give legal consent, but kids also have to give their "assent" which carries crucial moral weight in the situation. While kids might not have the capacity to give fully informed consent, they can give assent based on their best understanding.

We apply this to things like cancer treatment, corrective plastic surgery, counselling, and mental health medication for kids. Some of these can be even more permanent and life-altering than hormone blockers for kids (we don't allow bottom surgery for kids).

This is why transcare, like most healthcare for kids, should involve a team of healthcare professionals, guardians, and crucially the child themselves in patient-centered decision-making.

Do bad decisions happen? Yes. Are there misguided professionals, guardians, and kid patients? Yes. But this kind of care as standard is far better than parents deciding, or kids being left alone to figure it out themselves, or worse, policy-makers, who don't give a shit about evidence-based healthcare, deciding no trans kids get care. That's right, banning transcare is also making a decision for people with the consequence that trans kids continue to experience profound suffering without care.

Do you feel the same about all life saving medicine as you do about trans health care?

Sorry kid, we can't remove your appendix. Kids can't give consent and I can't give it as your parent. So, I guess you'll die.

I don't believe parents should be able to make any permanent decisions about a child's body. This includes hormones, tattoos, genital mutilation of any kind, plastic surgery, piercings.

You're right - which is why puberty blockers should be required by law for all children until they're 18 and can decide for themselves which puberty is right for them.

Children don't consent to being brought into existence and yet we constantly do so. They can't consent, as one reply pointed out, to medical care either.

Children can't consent to being refused anything that they ask for either.

And even if the denial is on the basis of "their own good" they'll grow to rightfully resent being denied things if it has a significant impact on them into adulthood and rightfully fucking hate their parents for it. Gender transitioning is one such thing.

Children are not ours to own and control and we owe them for dragging them into existence to critically think about their long term well being not just blindly applying some truism to every decision you make about their lives under your care.