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  • It has nothing to do with getting laid.

    • Came here to say this.

      I'm 42, happily married, and can't find/keep/make a friend to save my life. My wife is very anti-social/introverted and has a good number of friends.

      I cycle between thinking my interests suck, or I must just be un-fucking-bareable to be around and completely oblivious.

      Maybe both... Probably both.

      • Man, I feel you. I am genuinely jealous of people who can walk in a room and be friends with everyone in a few minutes.

      • I'm in my 40s and made a number of new friends this year by getting involved with my local fighting game scene. If you're into videogames at all I'd suggest trying it, and if you're not into fighting games specifically there are absolutely people at your locals who will be happy, if not excited, to teach you.

        Fighting games are unique among competitive games in that while there is no cooperative aspect in the game itself they have developed one of the most collaborative and friendliest gaming communities I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with.

      • I am 43, currently dating someone, but this is more someone to spend some intimate time with, and do things with, with neither planning on anything deeper. I guess a type of friends with benefits. My last relationship was very long and serious, but we both had some serious issues, I went on to work on mine, she spent a few more years not trying to get help, and then she spent a few years with serious improvement, but died late last year. So I am not really trying for anything deep.

        I moved to were I am about 6 years ago, I have several new friends, a number of acquaintances I get along with at social events, and said girlfriend. This is how it has always worked out for me. I am not sure why. I do believe that growing up in a situation where I moved every couple of years, and thus had to make new friends every time, kinda play a big role in how I developed. On top of this I have the blessing/curse of not experiencing anxiety, this often helps in the beginning, but that lack of inhibition can also turn a lot of people off. However, that is me.

        This being said one of the biggest differences I see between me, and people around me who have no friends, is that I spend time researching what is going on where I live, and then I participate in it. Often I don't even like what it is, but I would otherwise be sitting at home, so fuck it, might as well. Beyond this I go out of my way to talk to everyone, in a general group sense. I don't hone in on one person, and I keep it very casual. The critical thing though, is that there is reciprocal conversation. I ask them something "Oh, hey I am new here, how long have you been guys been involved in this?" I try to keep it to where I am asking, comfortably non-invasive, questions about themselves, and try and get them to talk about themselves, and hopefully their interests. Then you make yourself a regular, and over time, the conversation become much more second nature, and you slowly get to know each other better.

        Another thing is that I know a lot of people just won't like me. That is fine. Even rude rejection is just a minor thing to me. I have been reject so many times that if I took it personally, well, I doubt I could deal with it. There are people out there with some sort of overlap between you and them, see if you can make this something. You need to view rejection as just a minor inconvenience. Move on. I see so many men who refuse to do the footwork to get this off the ground, and of those who do, I see many who display disturbing behavior over rejection. It is no wonder why women are scared to give definite answers, hand out fake phone numbers, and lie to create an exit for so many interactions.

        Small talk is the gateway to real conversation. Finding places people go to socialize while doing a particular thing provides an immediate ice breaker, ie "Hey, I am new here, how long have you guys been doing this?", as well as a topic to discuss. Rejection isn't to be taken personally the vast majority of the time. Working on improving yourself is very important. Always be looking for things to improve on, discuss it. These places of interest are not obvious because society has decided you need to pay simply to be human these days, but unless you live in the middle of nowhere, there are things going on out there. Often these interest groups will meet at a designated house. If you can't find one that you enjoy, go to one based on something you have not done before. Tell people you aren't just new to the group, but to the whole thing. Get conversation off the ground by asking about the topic. You can make good friends from places created to do things you aren't really interested in. What I would do is if I can't find something that fits my interests, I look for things that are interests with a lot of cross over between that, and people who are interested in something I enjoy.

        If you live in the middle of nowhere, and you are unhappy, and isolated, do anything to move away from that. It won't be easy, and it won't be comfortable, and it will be anxiety inducing, but that is all part and parcel of life. It sucks. Moving to places, and traveling is it's own set of skills. People who don't really do that, at least not often, can get overwhelmed with it. When I say anything I mean it. Sure, don't like do something particularly dangerous, but it will have to become a singular goal you spend your time working towards. Living in a tiny rural area, where you have no friends, no interests, and you are isolated, is a death sentence. Not always literally, but internally. This tiny place is what it is, and if there is nothing for you, it is to small to change in a way that will work for you. You need to get out.

        If your work/life balance is way out of whack, you will need to put a lot of effort into changing that. I spent a lot of time working 70+ hour weeks. It was literally killing me. I began spending the very little personal time I had looking for work that gave me some hope of having a life. I would have to make a lot of material sacrifices, as I would make significantly less, but the restructuring of my life, in that direction, was the only way I could avoid dying from stress in my office. This shit sucked, and ultimately my life collapsed, but that is a whole other story. Point being, if you have no life because you work all the time, that shit needs to change, and it isn't going to be easy.

        All of these things are skills, you need to practice them by doing them, and you need to learn how to accept failure, and course correction. You may also have depression, or other psych issues, and need therapy. Depending on where you are this can go from "well it's there" to "this is an expensive luxury". There is no real good answer here. Giving any real advice would require knowledge of all the things going on with you to make any type of recommendation.

    • I mean, it's welcome. But it has more to do with everyone is an asshole, and not worth being around really.

    • Yes, I was so confused when reading this.

  • I think it is funny how you post this, then in the comments deny that this is the type of opinion someone like you, a proud leftist feminist have, and that it is actually most men who think like this.

    depends on your circles. in feminist and leftist circles, it usually means the first but most men outside of those circles use it just to mean “im not getting the dates i am ENTITLED to 😡"

    If that is the case, why did you make this post? What was the purpose of your post if this isn't how you think about lonely men? What did you want to achieve with it? I can tell you, that you're not going achieve anything positive.

    I assume you'd like to be treated with respect and compassion yourself since you have that blåhaj attached to you. That respect and compassion is a two way street.

    The fact that SOME men feel entitled to women doesn't mean that most men think or feel like that. The loneliness many men (and women for that matter) feel is very real and it is a far bigger and more complex issues than just "lawl, can't get laid".

    I personally know what it is like to be mistreated by very bad men. It left deep scars on me that I have to carry for life. However, I promised myself that I would not become a man hater back when I was going through my trauma. I refused to let a couple of asshole determine how I would meet the world and the men in it. It would be unfair to those who had never done a thing to me and it would be unfair to myself because I was better than that.

    You too are better than this and you either have to start treat all people with respect and compassion if you want the same in return or you need to own that it is in fact not "most men" who think like this, it is you who think like this. Stand by your convictions and own them or change course because you know that what you're putting out into the world right now is ugly and reductive.

    • I believe you're misreading their posts. In the text that you quoted, they say, "I think f(X) and g(X) both exist. I think that X is actually two populations: Xa and Xb."

      You've quoted this to say, "if you don't think g(X) exists then why did you post??"

      (f(X) is men who want friendship, g(X) is men who want sex, Xa is men in feminist circles, Xb is men not in feminist circles.)

      • It's still a stupid way to look at it.

        First of all: male feminists can indeed feel entitled to women as well as men who aren't feminist can just feel socially lonely and not being obsessed with women who don't date them.

        I think it is dumb to have leftist and feminism as a criteria for a man being a good person or not. It is a reductive way to think about the issue and very tribalistic.

        Second of all: There are many people out there, not just men, who aren't obsessed with the culture war, who still struggle with loneliness and the problem is multi faceted. Off the top of my head these are some of the issues I spot in the developed world that causes the loneliness epidemic:

        • long workdays and lower pay than in the past. People are exhausted and poorer than they were in the past. There is not much energy left after work to go be a productive, social member of society.
        • phones and social media. Today it is easier to connect with people than ever before, but it is also a time waster and it opens the door to people forming friendships and romantic connections with people who are geographically very far away.
        • this leads to physical loneliness. I am partially guilty of this myself. Most of my close friends live very far away from me and I don't get to see them often as a result. I miss having friends close by that I can just walk down the street to hang out with or go on picnics with. I don't spend time with people in my local area because I don't have as much in common with them, nor do I have the energy to form new friendships when I'm off the clock.
        • the lack of investment in local communities. People don't want to invest time and effort into their local communities by volunteering for clubs and gatherings. Most people would love to have these clubs where people meet and hang out, but no one want to carry their load to make it work.
        • this is of course a mix of the aforementioned exhaustion from long work days but it is also due to the individualistic ideology that has gradually replaced the communal ideology that used to be much more prominent back in the day. There is no willingness to sacrifice one's own comfort for the comfort of the collective. "Screw you, I got mine" is a very in fashion mindset and we all do it to some extent.
        • institutions. I like institutions as a concept and I think they are important to have, but I also have to admit that the more institutionalized our society has become, the wider the gap has become between us. Someone is mentally ill? Throw them in a clinic. Someone is getting old? Off to the retirement home? Having kids? To kindergarten and daycare they go while mommy and daddy work themselves to the bone. In the olden days the community took care of each other's sick, elderly and the kids. It wasn't perfect then either, the tendency to just drop burdens off on institutions has contributed to us distancing ourselves from the familial and community based system that we used to live by for thousands of years.
        • governments prioritizing economic growth and technological advancement over families. This is just a fact. South Korea is the prime example of what happens when an advanced society systematically prioritizes growth over stability. The encouragements to get educated and get a career and climb the ladder and push push push for excellence utterly destroys and isolates youths from forming important lifelong friendships and romantic relationships. They do not have the time. Also, due to the cost of living crisis which is part of the growth priority, there is close to zero actual investment in giving people the time, breathing room and finances to start a family.

        These are just the first few issues that pop into my mind as part of the bigger issue with the loneliness epidemic.

        To boil this issue down to "men outside of leftist and feminist circles are just mad they can't get laid" is so fucking stupid I don't even have words for it. My point still stands.

  • I think it’s good to discuss our feelings. Men have socially reinforced the exact opposite amongst themselves and had it imposed on them by others. We’ve all heard “boys don’t cry, man up” etc. I worked with a young man who thought he was mad all the time. We broke through that, he was having so many emotions he didn’t know how to label because he simply wasn’t encouraged in that direction. That, I think, is incredibly lonely.

    Stack on top of that growing up behind a computer screen, surrounded by manfluencers giving questionable advice, having your formative years recorded and picked apart…not being able to make those early awkward social interactions because of covid for a lot of young men as well…yeah.

    Of course I think it does get conflated with a lack of intercourse or whatever. Young women are feeling abused by their lack of rights and they view what would traditionally be awkward young love/courtship as a threat. Incel ideology used to be fridge, but there are a disturbing number of young men embracing these ideas. All while women’s reproductive options are limited, making intimacy more difficult for everyone.

    So there’s this historical precedent of not opening up, but boys started to learn not to do that anymore. Just in time to get shut down. It’s not girls fault, it’s not boys fault, it sucks. But I don’t see it improving until intimacy feels safe for everyone again.

  • Unfortunately, in addition to being discouraged from camaraderie and bonding, many boys and young men are also discouraged from ever developing the emotional security needed to see, or outwardly acknowledge that they are lonely and suffering from their lack of connections to others beyond sex.

    They are instead taught that any form of vulnerability (like acknowledging their unmet need for connection) is weakness they should be ashamed of because it's unbecoming of a man

    We really do men and boys a huge disservice :(. Sometimes you hear the idea that we should "teach men not to rape, rather than teach women to protect themselves", but I've never heard anyone talk about how in practice what that would look like, is raising emotionally healthy and secure, interpersonally competent boys, who are equipped to handle difficult emotional situations and the hormones that will show up as teenagers.

  • OK, but...no? That's not what people are talking about with the male loneliness epidemic. They're talking about how an inability to connect with their peers on a more than superficial level, coupled with a lack of older male role models, are causing Gen Z and Millennial men to report extremely high levels of loneliness.

    It's tangentially related to, "getting laid," as many of these men are driven towards misogynistic monosphere influencers who make sexual conquest a measure of self-worth, but that's a symptom of the problem, not the totality of it. Also, some people debate the existence of the loneliness epidemic altogether, but no one defines it as, "men aren't getting laid."

  • to all the men out there not getting laid: try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence

    As someone who spent a full seven years as a horny teenager, I'm afraid to report this is much more difficult than it sounds on paper.

    But I'll spot you something that can help a lot

    close camaraderie and bonding between men

    Honestly, the most success I've had with women was when I was surrounded by male friends who left me feeling relaxed and confident.

  • Trying to be a relaxing presence is a bit of a paradox

    • I don't know that there are many people I would describe as "relaxing". There was one dude I knew in college who was high all the time. He was pretty relaxing, I guess.

      I'm assuming what they mean is the guy isn't setting off any red flags.

      • Trans guy here - in part what I think might be meant is the pressure of expected romance. Like it is certainly a thing when younger AFAB people are trying to find regular old cis male companionship that there's often this sort of pressure where you can tell when someone is crushing on you and it's a matter of if and when they make their move. That time can be dreaded because a lot of the time once someone makes their move if the romantic advance isn't accepted the friendship disappears and the feeling left behind is that you were never a friend at all. That you were tricked into valuing a friendship that wasn't real because it was a down payment on an expected return of sexual or romantic affection.

        And yes, I am aware it's awkward and hard to stay around someone who rejected you romantically. It's also hard to lose a friend because of something you had literally no control over and to mourn that. Sticking around and remaining a friend and getting past your romantic flop is a service to all sides involved if what you actually feel is cut off from friendship. Otherwise it really makes the assertion that this isn't about sex ring very hollow.

        In my 20's an asexual closeted trans person who counted men as my tribe and wanted nothing but friends that felt normal and lasted - at one point I got so desperate I agreed to a sexless "romantic" relationship by way of fear of losing my best friend. Even though my "boyfriend" was a perfect gentleman during the time we were "together" I ended up in a two year long situationship that in the end felt skeezy and colors that time of my life in a sense of wrongness. I never developed romantic feelings and that whole set up ended up being sickening and oppressive. After it ended that friendship became remote and I lost what I valued somewhere along the line anyway.

        It doesn't surprise me that so many women aren't all that empathetic to the male loneliness epidemic even though in this post it is being expressed in a really shit way. It doesn't take many guys dumping you on your ass simply because they got attracted to you and decided not to stick around afterwards before you start feeling like their lonely heart is not your problem to solve. It feels just like if you had a friend who was using you for your money or some sort of service you were providing. Feeling used and discarded is traumatic. People who get hurt this way start getting very suspicious of new friendships and maintain distance because they are guarding from getting hurt again.

        In summary - It's really hard to relax around someone who is coming at you with an expectation you might not be able to meet. The more obvious it is the more you can potentially save yourself the trouble of not getting invested early.

  • “A gentleman is someone who makes everyone around him feel as comfortable as possible” - Brendan Fraser in “Blast from the Past”

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