Some of y'all are not ready to hear this...

Quick reminder that there were other things going on in the 20s and 30s. You know, the height of socialism in the West, a strong labor movement willing to burn down factories, stuff like that. The New Deal didn't come because leftists played nice.

In addition to the points raised by some of the other comments I'd remind you of one uncomfortable truth. The business plot was attempted fascist takeover of America. That was thankfully put down because remarkably there was one honorable ex-marine they tried to involve the plot. That's Smedley Butler. In the wake of that that attempted fascist coup basically nobody was punished. In large part because Roosevelt told them as long as they kept their mouth shut and didn't block the New Deal he wouldn't go after them. That's basically the only reason it got through. Truncated as it was even then. Because most of the richest and most powerful people in the country we're looking down the barrel of a gun otherwise.

Have fun wasting your time doing this. If they only fucked over Burnie once I might agree with you.

Roosevelt was the least bad president and was ruling during a time where the US ended up on the right side of a conflict. He still did not abolish capitalism or the American empire, nor did he have any intentions to.

But that doesn't make the democrats good, it doesn't make one side better, it doesn't make the US good.

Both sides are varying degrees of the same ideology, give all the money to the economic elite so they bribe both parties into maintaining that policy above all other considerations.

One side shrugs and calls it free market forces(D) as you suffer under that policy goal, the other points and laughs at you and says you deserve it(R). That is the extent of our "freedom" under American democracy.

Both sides are functionally the same when it comes to the world. There's barely a difference between domestic policy between the two American parties. One uses sweet nothing's to try assuage your fears and the other uses Force and strongman techniques.

Yeah the FDR Reformation came directly from FDR and we pushed through at his behest. According to my understanding of these politics at a time if The president hadn't been FDR we would not have gotten those Reformations. Besides they hardly matter nowadays when they're practically entirely Stripped Away. The last surviving one is social security and they're pretty gung-ho about getting rid of that too.

That's the point, I've noticed a lot of the loudest, most active posters on Lemmy ultimately want one thing, which is progressives not to vote. Weird how that's what the conservatives have relied on for every presidential victory they've achieved in the past half century or more.

What is the point of this meme?

These memes communicate to Democrats and their supporters that we're sick and tired of their mask-off conservative rule when they promise us the world and do nothing once elected. You want praise? You want votes? Then do something.

Since, you know, not voting for them apparently isn't enough to inspire meaningful change. Just once in my life I want to see Democrats fight harder for the working class and poor as they do against socialists and third parties.

Tankies. Do not engage.

You should not attempt to reform something which is not reformable. Instead start something new.

In general, you should not reform. Revolution is the way forward.

Yeah, not listening to this defeatist garbage. The Democratic party has been changed before. It will be changed again. The party is not defined by some monolithic ideology. We need massive electoral reform in the US to ensure elections are actually fair. First past the post is problematic. House and Senate functions are problematic. We need a solution to the two party problem, but until then, our vehicle is the Democratic party. Best to make it do what we want it to rather than just give up because "they're corporatists".

But they are a far cry better than voting Republican. And voting for a third party feels like wasting my vote.

You just answered your own question.

Democrats are FAR, FAR, FAR better than Republicans. We know this because the data shows they are better for our economy. We know this because their voting record shows that they regularly vote in favor of the middle and lower classes. We know this because they never attempted to violently overturn an election or send masked squads into our towns to abduct people off the street.

No 3rd party is viable or will be viable anytime in the near future. It will take YEARS and YEARS for a 3rd party to start winning local/state elections and getting reps in the House and Senate. And that's IF a 3rd party actually starts putting in the work, which none are doing.

So if you want to be smart, and actually help protect our democracy, then you should vote Democrat in national elections and maybe vote 3rd party in local elections to help them gain some traction and see if they can do anything with it.

You are giving consent when you vote. You are saying this choice is fine.

Maybe America is at a point where voting is not the solution. How are things now compared to when the American revolution happened?

Edit - people downvote this but 'voting for the lesser of two evils' is. What. Has. Got. You. Here.

Have you paid attention to how european countries with various election systems (some non-garbage) are voting?

don’t threaten me with a good time. (fully aware that a revolt is not a good time)

Lol.

Americans are too pussy to violently revolt. If it was going to happen it would have already happened.

So the next, actually realistic option, is to change the Democrat party by primarying the shit out of the reps that won't get onboard with what liberals want.

How do I know this is possible? Because conservative voters just did it to the Republican party over the last decade or two.

actually follows through with his campaign promises

Don't count on it. Not for any bad reason, just that things are harder to implement than campaign promises, whether it's city council in the way or just practicality.

I'm just saying he can be a success without implementing all of his campaign ideas.

And you expect the party to simply follow suit and embrace his policies?

It's Democrat propaganda too. OP is helping the dems lose, just like they want

Progressives do vote for centrists. Centrists do not return the favor and vote for progressives. Harris didn't lose because the left staying home; the left held their nose and voted for her, even though that loyalty is a one-way street. She lost because she was such a dog shit candidate that she couldn't drive enough people who aren't highly politically engaged to the polls. The only reason she lost the election was because of her own poor decisions. Stop blaming the left for the failures of centrist democrats.

What the fuck are you talking about I’ve heard it a million fucking times already. Its all anti-Harris lefties talk about.

Uh, no. This anti-Harris lefty, like the vast majority of anti-Harris lefties, knows an outside strategy is insane and mostly right wing propaganda.

Having fun with the fascism we’ve got instead?

Maybe if there had been more anti-Harris lefties in the party, we would have had a viable candidate. The hardline centrists did this.

makes me motivated to fight for my rights when my follow lefties keep empowering fascists through inaction

Nope. The following is from a Pew Research study.

The typology groups at either end of the political spectrum, Faith and Flag Conservatives and Progressive Left, are also the most politically engaged – that is, they voted at the highest rates in the 2020 presidential election, and they are most likely to say they post about politics on social media and that they donated to campaigns. The groups in the middle of the ideological spectrum have much lower levels of political engagement.

So quit uncritically accepting the mainstream establishment excuses. Harris lost because she was a shitty candidate, not because the left doesn't vote.

you can both suck shit directly out of my asshole.

Gosh, were you out campaigning for Harris? I just can't understand how she didn't attract more voters. Scolding voters seems like such a solid strategy. /s

In the 70s, people were making this argument about voting for the lesser of two evils, but it was between two Keynesians rather than two neoliberals. That was 50 years ago. Nixon was to the left of every president in my lifetime. 50 years from now, just how right wing will the Democrat we have to vote for be?

Thank you for putting that out there. I still cannot see making any other choice when it came time to vote. The too-close death camps you refer to were a very predictable consequence of this administration. I’m just a straight white guy but I really prefer to not add death camps to the world, or to disappear peaceful productive people from their communities, or to significantly harm the lives of millions of young, old, poor, or disabled people. That includes the ones starving overseas because of recent changes.

“But genocide!” we expect to hear in response. And if any dear readers are already thinking that, I want you to take this one fact away from my comment:

The deeply flawed US voting system — the one which forces the two party system on us — is damned near impossible to change via normal legislation and votes.

It’s THE thing. It is that mechanism that lets the red/blue capitalist american machine continue to vacuum up the vast majority of american votes. Go look up just how much agreement there has to be to amend the constitution. And we’re going to ask the people already in charge to get together and agree to kneecap their future political power. You see the issue.

Sure, the media is complicit and most voters are ignorant of the fact that there are better systems in place around the world. It’s true that a lot can be done outside of elected positions. But when it comes to the actual voting ballot, since the system self-corrects (in a bad way) for significant third parties, the expected consequences of each choice were something like:

1. Status quo, including any US resources being used for genocide and other shit.
2. Genocide Max plan, with 4 free years of Death Camp Prime
3. Flip a coin between 1 & 2 above (stay home or vote for a third party hoping it will get them recognition and funding)
4. Revolution and replace the system, like right now!

And I want to add a caveat that I’m not trying to blame the people who chose #3 above. Before the election I would disagree with that choice, but now in retrospect we know those people weren’t the reason Trump and Republicans won. I guess it remains to be seen how much of it was the genuine love for Trump the maniacs in this place have, and how much of it was election rigging and cheating BS.

The optimal strategy remains to vote for neoliberals when the alternative is fascists because that is how to create time for socialists and progressives to primary neoliberals in the Democratic Party and win general elections.

With all due respect, that strategy got us fascism. The terminology has changed, but I could tell close to 30 years ago that this would be the result. Is three decades not enough time for socialists and progressives to "primary" neoliberals? Apparently not, because socialsts/progressives/leftists are lazy, good-for-nothings who are simultaneously powerful enough to swing elections, but too inconsequential to talk about their issues or court their votes.

In other words, maybe these vaunted "centrists"/liberals should've stepped up to stop fascism. (And, it's not leftists who say that Harris "went too woke" and now want to throw trans people under the bus.)

You're right, and I like your advice. I reported the post

I am reporting this meme. And you all should too.

jfc. This isn't intended as a "fascists on both sides" argument, but you really need to take a moment and look at yourself there.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, we will have an easier time infiltrating the DNC, but we should never forget that they are not on our side and will fight against us getting in as much as they can. We should still try, but have our eyes open as well.

Yes, we definitely should practice harm reduction and vote for neoliberals when the alternative is fascists. The part we really need to focus on (short term) is actually getting people to pay attention to and care about the primaries. Too many of us feel hopeless and skip that step. It's just as important as elections, if not more so. But again- we absolutely have to realize that our enemy when it comes to the primaries is the DNC, not the GOP. They have swore under oath that they believe they have the right to influence and manipulate primaries to get Neolibs on the ballot and keep progressives/leftists off, and the court agreed they had that right. It's their policy to do so. We simply cannot rely on their help and need to come up with strategies to work around their meddling and interference.

This meme is a continuation of the accelerationism we saw during the 2024 election.

I don't believe it is. You can still believe in and practice harm reduction, while having a realistic understanding of the situation at the same time. The DNC and GOP literally control the elections. and while it is possible we can sneak a few progressives and leftists past them, we will very likely never be able to take it over completely. They will NEVER vote to end the two party system, it makes them too powerful.

Our best hope is to get as many leftists into the DNC as we possibly can, while at the same time building momentum and support for a viable 3rd party coalition of everyone on the left. It's also critical we focus on educating the public and combating the billionaire owned mainstream media. We also have to build a network of local mutual aid communities that can serve all of those goals, while showing people that an alternative is not only possible, but preferable to relying on the system.

Once a critical mass of support has been gained, all of the DNC infiltrators can exit for the Left party en masse, not only weakening the DNC, but truly highlighting the differences between the two. At that point the tables will have been turned and people who vote D will be taking away votes from the L's and allowing the fascists to win.

I believe that is the only way to get an actual viable alternative to the DNC. Like the meme says we will not be able to reform it. Our only hope is to get asses in seats in Congress and force through election reform. IF we can manage to get rid of the first past the post style voting, and end the electoral college, then we would never again have to worry about voting for the lesser evil. That should be our number 1 long term goal.

I think going from recognizing that the Democrats will never be reformed to that means we won't vote for them over fascists and even worse that makes us pro- fascist is a hell of a stretch- and reporting memes that point out the truth is madness.

Bernie is too liberal for all those big donors who pump up the Democrats via Super PACs. He might get in the way of them profiting off the American people. Bernie would have been the best choice for this country at beating back the MAGA movement before it became what we have now.

Bernie Sanders lost the primaries. This bullshit has to stop.

Imagine being so immature that you throw a decade-long temper tantrum allowing a FELON PEDOPHILE to be president because you didn't get your way once.

David Hogg won a legitimate party election to become vice chair because he was popular and then was removed by tje DNC for having the wrong ideology.

They have shown us many times they will not allow themselves to change

That'd require progressives to have something resembling spine. Good fucking luck.

You cannot reform the United States of America because at it’s core it is a capitalist and imperialist country that will always put corporate interests over human interests.

I mean, did you ever reform the USA to be anything but that?

Yes, the USA is a capitalist and imperialist country at its core. Half the planet wants it dead, the other half look at it with disdain. Nothing short of going back to the drawing board will save a country built on genocide, land theft and staging coups and waging wars worldwide

Yes. It can be taken over like the rnc was by maga. The mentality of this post makes progressives lose before they try. That is what capitalism really wants. For you to not try and accept the bullshit.

the dead weight is.. most of it though. A lot of people just joined because it was the only alternative to republicans. And now its pretty much dead.

You claim to be a socialist in your other posts but you sure sound like a DNC centrist all the time.