Seems like the perfect day to ask: Muricans, what's your dream country to expatriate to? Non-Muricans, what's the thought on accepting US refugees?
Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I'm glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it's fair enough to move on.
Thanks. I care a lot about liberty and freedom. I think they come with duty and responsibility. Even though we are anonymous strangers on the internet, I want you to know that I respect everyone who stays and fights either because they cant leave or they choose not to. I hope you all win. I can still vote in federal elections, and I will continue to do so.
Ireland. I'm a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it's not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
We're thinking Scotland. There's some real nice homes for reasonable prices. My wife's already a UK citizen so that helps.
Not much, though - I'm English, and we worked out it would cost £20k for the various visas. On top of that, you need to pay an NHS premium, even though you would already be paying for it through the usual national insurance deduction from your salary. It will also take 10 years before they are a citizen.
We decided to stay here (Germany). Less costs and, sadly, better health care.
For anyone who's thinking UK, I'd advise not - we're about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there's still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Just to add: The xenophobic riot last year...
Especially a bad idea if you are Muslim, Arab, or just look "Middle-Eastern".
Or if you're transgender (it's called "TERF Island" for a reason)
Also, God, the weather
The weather is the main reason I'd want to go there. I prefer dreary.
UK was formerly on my shortlist but was removed a few years ago.
Vote for Ed Davie if you get the chance.
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
Whether or not someone has a passport is almost entirely based on the amount of wealth that person or their family has.
Where I grew up, almost nobody traveled abroad because nobody could afford it. Or at most, back in the day they would drive to Canada because you could cross without a passport.
For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That's not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don't have $200 to spend.
In 2016 there were tens of million of Americans who couldn't absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt.
That number's probably grown significantly since.
Drop in the bucket compared to the cost of travel. Your point still stands though.
It's also convoluted process too. If you never had passport or haven't renewed in like 15+years you have to reapply, and then set up a whole appointment, most are booked months it not longer in advanced and only specific location USPS in your area. The scientists currently emigrating to Europe are already well off individuals( that's why MDS and scientists are considered well off peoples degrees), certainly not poor
Difficult to get a visa to other countries without a passport.
There are also Americans who had a passport of a different country before they naturalized
The kind of american that usually comes to Mexico is very nice, very welcome. Maybe the exceptions are the very loud and self absorbed ones that go to resort locations and act like they're better than everyone there.
As long as people want to integrate and cooperate they are more than welcome.
Now, the sad part is the gentrification that comes with a lot of people moving and outpaying rent vs the locals. Now the average cost of living in Mexico city is about 50% higher than the average salary, and about 100% higher than the median salary. Another very negative thing is that now a lot of locals have to communicate in english because American people will come and not learn spanish over multiple years living here. There are zones where everything is in english now. It's okay speaking english, it's not okay expecting english from everyone.
So a few pointers:
Be friendly, but that's always
Moving somewhere and not knowing the language is extremely common. My mother has been in the USA for 40 years and speaks very little English. She focuses on Spanish speaking neighborhoods and businesses.
Many of her friends have also been here decades and speak zero English too.
I'm German and as far as I'm concerned the people who want to flee the current US administration are exactly the type of people you want to welcome with open arms.
As a trans woman I might need somewhere to go and I desperately hope that when that day comes someone like you is in charge if deciding if I get to stay.
the ones that cant stop sucking off trump, arent even leaving usa anyways(trump supporters/liberterians), they are too inside thier bubble. scientists and mds and engineers have much more options than people with non-graduate degrees unfortunately.
Are you specifically talking about north americans of european descent? As if Germany isn’t dipping right into their pre WW2 culture with Merz as chancellor and AfD getting more votes each year 🤡
Deutschland den Deutsche, Ausländer Raus
Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don't like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn't compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
I don't mean to naysay but this isn't reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.
This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.
And those people fleeing genuine threat should be welcomed as refugees. American voting citizens however, need to get their assess out on the streets and actually start challenging the police, ICE and government, instead of fleeing what they created.
Canadian here. I'll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn't vote at all can die in a ditch.
Thank you for that. For me, if I make a big move, especially out of country, I gotta go somewhere warm. I live in the mountains of WV and last winter nearly ended my life, for real. I was just talking this through with a friend- is it better to flee or stand our ground against the fascists?
Ok dude, I don't have time to deal with your mental illness.
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
It would be a dream if CANZUK happened, then it was joined by California and Cascadia. We could call it CACACANZUK.
That said, you would already be a powerful nation without joining anyone else. Don't wait for us to get organised.
I went to Norway. Big recommend. That said, I refuse to call myself an expat or use the term expatriate. I am an immigrant. I think it is weird that white westerners get a special word and everybody else are filthy immigrants.
It's semantics but the difference between expat and immigrants is an expat intends to return to their home country some day, where an immigrant does not.
Yes, but connotatively it is just a marker of privilege. Especially here, since what we’re talking about is immigration, not temporary work.
To me expat always referred to people that only stay temporarily, mostly sent abroad by the company they work at. As opposed to a migrant that is meaning to stay permanently (and eventually gains citizenship).
TIL the definition differs regionally (see wiki) and mostly not as I thought it was.
The Netherlands probably, but with the massive grain of salt that I suspect that choosing a "ideal place to live" without actually having been to that place is likely to result in a skewed idea of what a place is truly like, and as I've never been outside the United States I have that issue when thinking about any other country. I also doubt they or anywhere else that might make my list of ideal places would want me, seeing as I'm just some random factory worker without any especially rare skill.
To me The Netherlands is just weed, bikes, trains, and canals. Sounds great.
I'm also fairly sure it's not going to be as great as it sounds. And the language will probably be annoying and not very useful elsewhere.
treadful@lemmy.zip Netherlands also has a xenophobia problem. It's not as progressive as people think, at least not anymore.
That being said, it's not a bad country. Also one of the easiest EU countries for Americans to immigrate to.
Here in Canada we're trying to catch America's brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.
doctors
How's the demand for nurses? I'll be finishing up nursing school in less than a year! :D
Or support staff? I'm a surgical tech now, and some of my coworkers (other techs, schedulers - bottom of the medical food chain, but still with specialty experience) feel trapped here by their lack of higher education.
Check out bchealthcareers.ca for an example of what is being done to encourage medical professionals to make the move to Canada. This site is B.C. specific but it includes doctors, nurses, and allied health professions.
As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that's fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn't get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn't even need the child to be born in Canada, I'd actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let's say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
i think if i immigrated to Canada I'd fight for First Nations rights and want it to change in favor of that
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it's run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land's original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn't conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn't a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
I wish I'd married a Canadian in 2004 when the getting was good, haha.
I even speak some French.
Honestly lots of Western Europe, but personally: Iceland, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Objectively places like Spain, Portugal, Malta, etc. would work.
I have no delusions of ever making it as an immigrant in any of these countries. You need a lot of money.
Or have a MD with a specialist or a scientist with a in demand field that is. But I suspect doctorate levels people are quite far and few between, which is why Europe is even entertaining them. They don't want BS, or MS holders there's too many of them and they are the ones in the most need for a career or jobs, because usa have very low prospects, even before trumps attack on stem funding.
No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different story
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries.
Nope. Absolutely none of those appear to allow working with just a US passport.
Without that right, it would be a different story
... Because I think it is.
But, to be fair, I only did a little searching. If you have a reference - like a page from the gov of Denmark saying "Yanks are cool: come in and get to work" - I'd love to be proved wrong. My nephew needs to see the world, and working is how it's done.
That is not as easy as it sounds, it would be the same situation for immigrants going to the USA as they would if they try any European country
I pursued an engineering BSc with the desire to emigrate but got distracted by the success of SpaceX and wooed by the challenge of Mars colonization. Then the US health insurance industry got in the way, I failed out and didn't make it back until COVID. I graduated in 2022 with the first university degree in my family but was crippled by student loan debt and unable to save to leave. Was finally able to escape the rural Midwest a year ago and made it to a city with plenty of aerospace companies right as everyone stopped hiring. The cherry on top was the CEO of the company whose engineering feats initially inspired me throwing fascist salutes at inauguration.
Odd jobs and parental support have mostly kept me afloat, but they can't help forever and I am a few months out from having to move back. The military industrial complex slid into my DMs recently with the offer of a fat paycheck and loaded resume in exchange for my ethics and morals. They even dangled a carrot of potential transfer to a NASA climate science project after the contract is up, but I'll be surprised if it's still funded by then. Frankly, I broke down when I realized the project I'd be working on.
I'll hear back about the position early next week and I'm desperately hoping it's a no and I'm back to the drawing board, but if it's a yes I'll be starting in a couple weeks. The BBB will very likely lead to losing the best, most effective and enabling healthcare I've received so far, and the salary would cover the insurance plan I'd need to maintain that care. Its a short contract and the salary would also enable me to save enough to emigrate but I already feel compromised. I've dreamed of contributing to space exploration and am instead being bullied into contributing to it's militarization by a country I've opposed for the entirety of my adult life.
I've looked into joining the Ukrainian Foreign Legionnaires and would much rather contribute to European defense against Russia, but I honestly just want to pursue an MSc or even PhD and turn my brain towards mitigating and adapting to climate change. I've worked so fucking hard, dreamed so fucking big and bounced back from defeat time and time again for this? Fuck.
Tl;dr: Masters/PhD in Sweden or Germany but barring that I'll work for any European defense company that will take an american immigrant.
I have BS in stems but don't have the qualifications for grad school unfortunately, another issue is I had a friend prior to pandemic that had a masters in the same degree, but the jobs were really lacking if you don't have significant lab experience
Why is the difference between immigrant and ex patriot?
If you migrate from a rich country to a poor country you’re an expat.
If you migrate from a poor country to a rich country you’re an immigrant and you’re both lazy and taking all the jobs and welfare and healthcare.
It's relative to the country - you expatriate from your country of origin, and become an immigrant to a new host country.
Expatriate and emigrate are more or less synonyms.
ex patriot
That's what I became when the Nazis took over as a result of being overwhelming popular to US voters. Turns out it's not just a handful of powerful fuckers taking advantage of the rest of us: 'we the people' are, for the most part, just evil.
No, the difference is whether you are just residing outside your home country or actually immigrating to the new country. It is the difference between a vacation and moving somewhere. It is more along the lines of external patriot than former patriot.
Someone who still sees themselves as a citizen of their home country and just happens to live elsewhere is an expat. So an American living in Mexico is an expat, no matter what their length of stay is. If they immigrate, they are moving permanently and they see themselves as a part of the new country, either by seeking citizenship or claiming that as their 'home' as part of their identity.
silly responses here... the actual difference is permanence. immigration is relocating your life. expatriating is an extended vacation. it has the white guy connotation because white people usually stay temporarily, they dont immigrate for life.
Ex patriots move to work in a foreign country for a limited period, with the intention of returning to their home country. Typically these are white collar workers who move between their employer's offices for 2-3 years and then return home.
Immigrants move with the intention of staying in the new country long term.
However, with the negative connotations attached to immigrants, some people - primarily white, highly educated people - incorrectly refer to themselves as expats, even once it's clear they intend to stay.
I’ve seen a lot of online hate for expats
Probably Finland, or another Nordic country. Idk, I just like the cold and the woods and figure those oughtta fit the bill
Americans would do anything to not call a general strike.
Get it organized. I'll show up. Show us poor stupid lazy americans how easy it is to hold an extended general strike to effect a national change. I'm all in on it. Let's fucking go everyone! This armchair analyst knows the way!
A birthstrike would be much easier to pull off than a general (labor) strike. Bills don't stop just because you stopped working, and labor strikes require a high degree of coordination. It's a significant risk for those going on strike.
In contrast, a birthstrike does not hurt your immediate situation, and actually likely helps it by preventing an increase in financial burden. Additionally, it requires no real degree of coordination. It can start small and pick up steam as more people jump onboard.
Costa Rica 🇨🇷
Our country attracts a lot of American tourists, they mainly go to the beaches and national parks but I have seen them on my city sometimes
I'm fine with it, I highly suggest you learn Spanish since we are a Spanish-speaking country, and you can only see English on the tourist areas
Also if you want to become a citizen you need to do some sort of exam that for most foreign people is hard. Just so y'all know
I love your country and am considering moving there. I just got divorced and I'm going to do a big shake up of my life. If I don't get this job in Texas and I can get my balls in order, I might just do it. Ticos son la gente muy generoso y amistosa. Tengo solo un poco español pero vivir en Costa Rica? Yo estudio muy rapido en la pais.
Hi, I am an American and will be visiting your country very soon! I've never been outside of the US and know very little Spanish. I'm going with a family member who is getting dental work done and well be in San Jose. We're very excited for the trip, do you have any tips for first timers?
Thanks for visiting us!
Regarding San Jose, unfortunately there isn't a lot to do there, the most you can do is visit museums (National Museum, Pre-Columbian Gold Museum, Jade Museum, alongside others, visit some volcanoes (Poás, Irazu, and maybe the Turrialba Volcano), visit old buildings (Plaza de la Cultura as an example), and that's pretty much it
I think you would like places like Monteverde or La Fortuna.
Regarding money exchange, do it on Banco Nacional (BN) or in Banco de Costa Rica (BCR). If you do it on the airport or in any other place you might be scammed
Use Uber, if you use taxis they will know you're a tourist and will charge you the double
Avoid Jaco, it's kind of dangerous
And finally, be careful with prices on the airport, a lot of things are overpriced such as this
Don't plan to be in San Jose. Doesn't have more to give for tourist than maybe a day of museums.
Learning Spanish thoroughly would be difficult, but I think I could get to conversational with a couple months effort. Taking tests is my one great talent. Tests don't scare me. History? Government? Society? I will learn that in a week if I can read the material I will be tested on.
Finding work scares me. I can't live outside the country for my current job.
Non-American here. All Americans, except MAGA muricans, are welcome.
Don't come to Ireland. I've lived in the US for nearly two decades, made lots of friends and even helped some to immigrate here. The harsh reality is, however, that we're going through a really bad housing crisis, with our own homeless numbers growing every month, and house prices and rents exploding (a recent statistic showed that our growth in rents is four times the EU average). So, please, for our sake and yours, try a different country.
Brit here. I'd be happy to accept Dem voters. Fart voters can stay at home and eat their own dogshit. Non-voters too; they knew exactly who FartV1 was and I am genuinely surprised Harris couldn't get in simply on "I'm not Fart". They really thought she'd be worse?
And for those who get over here by lying about their vote; they incriminate themselves, and will be deported the moment we discover the truth.
They really thought she'd be worse?
For the love of God, please stop spreading this mode of thinking. Elections are won by enthusiasm, not an intellectual weighing of the pros and cons of each. This is the model Democrats have used for decades that got us here. Being the lesser evil is not a solid campaign strategy. The greater evil will always get more attention, and therefore enthusiasm.
I don't think this is an exclusively American thing. Did Brits really think brexit was a good idea?
Germany here, only the smart once please. Dont need the idiots. Already got enought here
I was smart once! OMW!!
Germany has been on my list of places to flee to if the fascists here start rounding up LGBT folks. I have lapsed fluency from when I lived there 30 years ago but I am confident it would come back quickly. The problem is that my husband doesn't speak any German at all and I think it would be a culture shock for him.
Without C1 german you will most likely not find a job anywhere. Having that experience myself with my british boyfriend. Despite diploma, they dont land a job
the country i was to go to is the imagined America of our ancestors like Langston Hughes, the land of equality and opportunity and liberation and diversity, full of immigrants working for their own and their shared futures
Is there a sign-up sheet?
Portugal, though I doubt they want Americans any more.
Nobody body really wants tourists and "expats" any more. That shit is cancer
Just toxic monoculture destroying local way of life so that some clown "capitalist" can turn a buck on rentals and bars.
Morocco or Jordan. Been trying to learn Arabic for a few years and would love to be forced to take it more seriously. Mostly can just read the letters. They are relatively safe countries that are in areas of the world I have studied extensively. Also means closer travel to many of the old cities I want to visit.
Jordan is a great country. Lived there for awhile. The people were great. Israel being so close isn't fun though. Morocco would be a safer bet imo.
That is true, but I would really like to live in the region and Jordan is probably the safest bet. Otherwise Morocco is the smart choice for arabic speaking nation tolerant of Americans with a reasonable margin for safety. I won't be leaving anytime soon either way, this is more of a dream living abroad answer for right now. I intend to vote, protest and be a pain in the ass until they drive me out.
I'm thinking either Finland or Norway. But the only way I could ever emigrate to either of those countries would be as an asylum seeker. I don't make enough money, nor do I have any skills they want. I've got plenty of skills...just not any that are in 'high demand'.
You could marry, at least for Norway.
Few mail order brides available though, so you’d have to make an effort finding someone who likes you back
Right now phds are usually the only one sought after for immigration, got a BS or MS in a stem, good luck with that. I have one of these, and many people can't get a PhD for multiple reasons.
I'm very concerned that people who choose to go to France will just find themselves in the exact same situation along with the rest of us not too long from now. I'd advise looking for a country with a lower fascism approval rating...
We do have lots of cheese, though, if it's any consolation.
Tbf most migrants are either damn smart, hard workers or damn smart hard workers.
So, for a good future we should welcome them!
Germany. I might be able to claim ancestry rights. Ironic that my great grandmother fled fascism in Germany but I'd flee America to return to the motherland.
You shouldn't say that "motherland" phrase so loud. Nobody cares, but it makes you one of those Muricans we try to avoid.
Nobody here cares about ancestry like americans do.
Your great grandma came from Germany. Was your grandma a german citizen? Was your mother a german citizen? No? You are not intitled to german citizenship anymore. You're a full blown american with a great grandma that migrated to the USA. I'm sorry to blow your bubble, that ship has left the harbor.
GingTFO isn't actually a huge problem for Americans. I've looked into it and the only reason I'm still here is that my wife refuses to leave and I love her too much to leave her. Dozens of countries will give Americans residency, although citizenship is usually a lot more difficult and/or takes years. There is usually a minimum income requirement, but you don't have to be rich. I've seen it in the $1200-$2k/mo range in multiple places. Of course this has to be income you can still make while you're in the new country, not a US job you're going to give up. Makes it pretty sweet for "digital nomads" tho who can work remotely.
A few countries highly rated by expats are Costa Rica, Panama, Uruguay (esp good environment for LGBTQ+), and Thailand. Vietnam doesn't even have a visa limit - technically it's 3 or 5 years but all you have to do to reset it is go away for like 30 days. There are lots of others. If you want to get started google "Americans moving abroad", there are tons of helpful videos and articles.
I'm Canadian. I don't mind accepting American refugees as long as we also learn to accept refugees from other countries and value them all equally, but our current government isn't doing that.
When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with them. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7764650-when-mexico-sends-its-people-they-re-not-sending-their-best
The funny thing is, the worst of us love the US and what it's becoming. Smart, decent people are the ones talking about leaving.
If I could live in no country I’d be so happy. But the only place to do that is a desert in Africa and my natural habitat is temperate forests.
So I guess Canada.
New Zealand is quite lovely; I could afford it and I’m on the expedited list of specialties. Can’t leave the kids, though, so I’m stuck watching the ship go down.
Narnia
Dream? Hard to say since I've never been outside the US. Maybe Ireland?
Reality? Pretty much anywhere that I would have the opportunity to make a living.
Korea is facing a huge population crisis in the not-so-distant future. They already have ties to the U.S., too.
Had to scroll too far to find Korea.
Been here since 2016. It can be tough finding a job at a not shitty company, but once you do, it's pretty sweet.
But if you're in your 20s and dating, be prepared for all the bullshit. It gets better in your 30s, though there are still customs you need to figure out.
Housing is expensive in Seoul, and real estate agents may scam you, so find a Korean friend.
Otherwise, it's great. People are nice to foreigners. Public transit in Seoul and most of the country is amazing. Everything is super convenient. You can get away without learning the language, but at least try to get to a basic level. The foreigner community is pretty cool. Healthcare is excellent. I love it here.
I don’t want to start over. I’d rather die.
you're lucky you're not in love with an immigrant then
I’m latina and my husband is Latino. From what it looks like we’re all being arrested and questioned based on appearances alone. We’re all not lucky.
Even though things aren't going as they should, I wouldn't be likely to leave. I don't agree with a lot of what's happening here, but there's no nation I know that supports more of my beliefs and lifestyle than the USA. Plus, my family, my friends, and my loved ones are all here. Leaving would mean losing them, and that's totally unacceptable.
Can you expand on your beliefs and lifestyle?
Not easily at the moment. I'll probably come back and give you some answers if I remember.
Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, or Germany, in no particular order. Then again, of those 4, I've only been to Canada.
Canada, I'm a citizen there as well
I was going to say Italy but they seem to be going fash again so... north sentinel island?
North Sentinel Island is willing to welcome you with a gift of their finest bow and arrow show 🤗
(Serious tho, please don't disturb uncontacted tribes)
Unless you're some of those "good christians" trying to teach you their fairy tales with sword and flame...
I’ve lived in NYC for 20 years, I’d only give it up for Barcelona
Dream country? Monaco, lol. But more realistically either Canada, Australia or New Zealand
Hey. If yanks get get to Canada, and get in, I'm sure we'd love to have ya.
There's a catch: if you're not fleeing persecution, you're gonna need a skill. It bumps up your score on the big calculation they do, and if you can keep doing the skilled work you may one day afford to live somewhere other than winnipeg.
I think I’d like to move to Canada. However, I have no money, and do not have a degree or anything like that. I think the plant I work at has operations in Canada, so there might be the possibility of transferring there. Even if the opportunity presented itself, I refuse to leave my son, so I am stuck here.
I moved US -> CA, so AMA
My experience so far: I instantly made a bunch of friends and the locals seem happy to have me here. Many are curious about the US, many also understand what's going on. I don't experience the same level of elitism I'm used to back in the states as an immigrant (even after 2+ decades). There is also SIGNIFICANTLY less catcalling, I somehow get way more compliments??? Oh and did you know ketchup was actually supposed to taste good? (Hint: it's all the corn syrup)
Canada is a lovely country ❤️🇨🇦
I always wanted to live in a country that was totally different from America when I was a kid. I thought either India, China, or Japan back then, but now I’m not sure I’d want to live in any of them right now.
I guess I could go to nearby countries that don’t have global headlines like them say like Bangladesh, Thailand, or Indonesia, but I don’t really know anything about them.
I think the smart option would be somewhere in Europe, but I kinda want to get away or at least take a break from “western” culture.
I guess I can’t name a dream country, but somewhere with a totally different culture. I’d also want it to have a bunch of ruins and historical sites to visit. I’ve never seen anything older than like 150 years in person.
Where do you live in America? The northeast has cities with things/buildings older than the birth of America (pre-1776) if you want to visit.
Canada if possible. My family only speaks English, but willing to "do the thing" to fit in even if that's learning a new language.
I'd also be ok with UK, Australia, New Zealand.
last places would be Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain, Japan. I know living in these places would be an extreme challenge for my family so that's why they're bottom of my list.
I googled a bit, my best bet is Canada.
Large population of the Chinese diaspora, so I don't feel too much like a minority (I am Chinese American).
The other choice is Australia.
EU is great, but since the UK isn't in EU anymore, I'd have to chose a non-English country, meaning, I'd have to learn another language. My brain can't handle that. Already have 3 spoken and 2 written languages stuck in my head (mostly dormant, haven't used some those languages for a while), I think my brain will explode if I try to learn more. Population of the Chinese diaspora is too small. So I'd also feel alone, because like... Imagine living in a place where nobody looks like you. Like a Black American kid in the deep south of the US and all your classmates are white, that's how it feels basically. As for the UK, I wouldn't need to learn another language, but UK just had a xenophobic riot in 2024, doesn't seem too friendly in my opinion. If the UK was in EU, I could just pack up and to go another EU country if Shit Hits the Fan, its what I like about the EU, options. But too bad UK isn't in EU...
There is also Singapore, which has like over 70% ethnic Chinese, and the official languages include English and Mandarin, which I already know.
Not technically "dream countries", but the most realistic countries that would be livable for me. Because I doubt I can speak Norweigian or Finnish. (Even tho I would love those countries)
TLDR: As a Chinese American, Canada as first choice, Australia as second place. Then probably Sinapore.
(Sorry if I'm rambling, can't express it coherently since ICE raids are on my mind)
Edit: I would probably also say Taiwan as an option, well... other than the fact that they are constantly on the verge of getting invaded, and I am not fond of the CCP.
Singapore seems a smart choice. Seems like a great city from everyone I've met from there. The general English proficiency is excellent as well.
Whatever you do, avoid Europe. The anti-Asian racism in most of Europe is far more grave than it is in the Americas. and Australia, ok, you'll have more Chinese community, but it's probably the biggest cesspool of anti-Asian racism on the planet
You might also look into what Chinese populations are in South America. you might like it there.
Any country where healthcare and higher education are considered human rights and not commodities will work for me.
Anywhere cold, with decent social services, good shipping, and people that leave me alone on the whole.
Ah, welcome to the Nordics!
Hard as fuck to get in, or so I’ve heard.
The shipping might be slower than you’re used to, but we check of on the rest.
See you soon?
I wish I could see you all soon. I've looked at it a lot over the years, not just when shit got bad here. And would honestly I would love to live there. Looked hard into Norway for awhile and talked to Norwegians in their subreddit, but the hardest part would be getting a job as a foreigner as it sounds like jobs are very heavily weighted towards "who you know". Since I'm not the most socially invested person and a foreigner, the Norwegians I talked with made it sound like it'd be problematic.