Wall Street, we have a problem.

Maybe they should try more tariffs. More tariffs will fix it definitely.

We just need to hawk more $100k Teslas from the White House. …what a fucking embarrassment.
Yo dawg, I heard you like tarriffs...

Edit - Sorry... I'm usually better than that
- Side note, why do people seem to struggle so much with the spelling of the word "tariff"? We've seen it so many times yet so many people get it wrong.
- Too much trade between the states. We need to rip up the Interstate Commerce Clause

Tbh Wall Street can fuckin off. They helped create this mess. If this ship is going down, let's make sure none of the assholes find a seat on a life boat.

All of everyone’s retirement accounts are invested in the market. So it’s not just those assholes who get fucked by this.
- In fact, those assholes will be fine. WE won’t.
- Lucky me, I don't have any retirement investments!
- Maybe it will force Americans to do something against that? If no one has any retirement, there's bound to be a lot of public outcry. There's nothing to lose if you have nothing.
- How much of retirement accounts represent in % for the overall stock market?
- In the USA, not everywhere, luckily. It's as if the repercussions will hit you guys harder than the ones Trumpet is trying to blow at.
- I switched to cash last week.
- All of everyone’s retirement accounts are invested in the market.
  
  Americans not willing to recognize that Social Security exists is such a fucking capitalist vibe
Oh you can be sure Congress will be working overtime to pass a bill with relief to those big businesses that cannot fail.
You think they aren't already profiting off of the downturn?
- half of them voted for this guy, so yeah I'm wondering whether they actually saw it coming or not

What's interesting to me is that the "shape" of the line still matches the global line pretty well so there are some "fundamental" aspects that still affect markets, but overall we're in a nosedive for "some reason."

Sometimes The USA line goes up when the world line does, but sometimes it's totally inverse, as the world quickly dumps US stocks and invests elsewhere.

Any Americans tired of winning yet?

I can’t handle being any greater.
So very much
I am so tired of winning, I’d love alternatives.

Denmark, if you’re listening… I have an idea.

Here in the US, I transfered most of my 403(b) investments into European, Asian, and "emerging market" funds, so I'm happy to be doing my part.

any guidance or resources for an idiot who would like to explore that?
- If you have a 401(k) or 403(b) through your employer, your employer should be partnered with an investment firm to manage it (e.g. T Rowe Price, Prudential, or Transamerica). You need to figure out which company you've got and log in to your account. Ask your HR dept if you can't figure it out.
  
  That firm will automatically choose where to invest your money unless you log in to your account on their website and tell them where you want it invested.
  
  Most investment firms will offer a limited selection of mutual funds with a variety of objectives. They usually link to each prospectus right there on the site, and the prospectus often has a pie chart telling you where a fund's investments are located (US, Europe, Asia, etc). It will also list their performance over time, expense ratios, and other useful info, like whether they invest in large vs small cap businesses and their largest individual holdings.
  
  You want to change both where your current investments are allocated and where your future contributions will be allocated.
  
  You also want to try to find funds with low expense ratios (I try to stay below 0.10% unless it's a fund I really like and am willing to make an exception for). Anything titled "index fund" is likely to be low. Your money is almost guaranteed to be automatically invested in funds with high expense ratios, cutting into your long-term growth, because the investment firm makes big bucks giving your money to people who aren't wise with it.
  
  If you want to get serious, you can even set up a personal choice account where you can totally independently decide where to invest your money, even in individual stocks. This comes with significant risk and is not a great idea for laypeople like you or I.
Fuck, that’s a good idea.

Thank you.
I did the same with my IRA. I was in VOO but moved to VGK and some short term bonds. So far I've saved myself a good amount of money.
Same, babe. Sold all my iShares and Vanguard ETFs and moved into BMO emerging markets, Euro, and Canadian funds.

I still need to look into my employer group pension account. I don't know how much control I actually have over that.

Okay, here's my conspiracy theory....

Now let's say you're Trump and the supreme Court has said it's just about impossible to convict somebody of corruption in the US. You see that you're going to be elected president and your goal is to figure out how to make a crap ton of money off being present. Now you can do the boring old s make dignitaries stay at your hotel thing or have foreign governments. Give Jared kushner a bunch of money.... But that's all pocket change. If you're president, you can crash the economy. If you know a bunch of Rich Russian oligarchs who can short the market and you can tell them exactly when the market will crash then they can make billions... And you can get your cut too.

This is why Trump doesn't really give a shit why the tariffs are in place. That's why he makes up bullshit answers when asked why the tariffs are implemented. He doesn't care. ... But he really really really wants to yank the market around. First he says tariffs happening, then he says they're not, then they're happening again. Every time the market goes up and down he can make a shit ton of money if he can accurately predict when it goes up or down.

I can't get this idea out of my head. It makes more sense than anything else I can come up with. There's so much money to be made if you have the power to yank around the u.s. economy and enough narcissism to not give a shit about the people hurt in the process.

What I’m wondering when reading such theories is: does money matter all that much to these people? Like when you’re 80+ years old and a billionaire I don’t see what the end game there is, unless it’s just an uncle Scrooge attitude but I still find it a bit hard to believe. I think that in order to become a billionaire you need to be seriously driven by something more than 0s - maybe power, influence or attention.
- You've got to step back a little to understand.
  
  The key thing is that it is not possible (excluding inheritance) to become a billionaire without being a scheming psychopathic cut-throat selfish person and having a determined drive to have power over others.
  
  The second key is it's not possible to keep your billions without being a psychopath. This because you could never possibly spend that money in your lifetime and the only way to have accumulated it is through exploitation of labour.
  
  So it's a thing you don't need that you got via abusing others. They want power and they don't care how they get it. They have no plan beyond that. Personally I think it's mental health issues and the fact that we allow this in our flawed system.
- Logically you would think the answer should be that money shouldn't matter much, but it always seems to. It's still a way of keeping score and a proxy for power. They've always longed for more money/power and as they get older and their brain slows down, they don't suddenly change. What old billionaire have you seen says "you know what? I'm going to give everyone raises! I don't need more money! We should all be happy together!" (Almost) never happens. They want more and more and more... and then they die.
- They're just tryna nut. It's the only way they still can
That was my idea. These jarring and quickly implemented money drainers only really help ppl outside the market.
Yeah, I think it's either this, or the tariffs are extortion (announce tariffs, then solicit bribes from businesses and politicians). Could be both as well.
Exactly what I have been thinking. I should have scrolled down and read your comment before I made mine

How dare Biden tank the economy while trump is president just to make him look bad! Any day now, all these incomprehensible tariff ramblings, threats, and further ostracization of our allies are going to make America so great! /s

Maybe Trump just didn't know how to spell and he just meant "Make America grate again" because it certainly does something like that to most people's nerves at the moment.

Despite all the myths Democrats are better for the economy. They always produce better numbers.

rich ppl yacht money "economy", sure
- Uh no? Compare employment numbers from whichever source you prefer. Democratic presidents have lower unemployment.
- Nonsense. Disappointed this gets upvotes.
  
  How the hell are the democrats the party of enriching the wealthy when compared to the fucking R's?? I mean fucking hell have any of you ever read a book or even glanced at historic and current R policy?

This is going to be a hard one to explain to the MAGA fans

why would Joe Biden do this

The stock market was bloated

Actual trump regime statements
It's ukraine's fault. Should've thanked harder
What isn't hard to explain to that lead poisoned cult of cunts.

slams fist on desk

Biden!

You need to extend the graph beyond January. The US has been riding an enormous localized wave that crested shortly after Trump's inauguration. American securities (particularly the MAG7) are enormously overvalued, with revenue that is dwarfed by their stock price.

This is a much-needed market correction, not a regional stock performance split from within the US.

Not even suggesting Trump isn't shit. Its very obvious that he's popped the irrational optimism bubble we've been gliding on since even before COVID hit. But we were in a bubble. DOW 43k, never even mind the absurd NASDAQ run up, is not representative of the functional economic capacity of the nation as a whole. Without unlimited free money from the Fed to keep inflating asset prices, we were going to enter a downturn sooner or later.

The real question is whether the DOGE Team will kick the knees out from under our Treasury/Fed countercyclical spending system on the way back to earth and cause us to land harder than necessary.

Absolutely wild to look at this graph and say 'welp that's the correction we've expected and needed for a long time' when it is quite clear it's a reaction to Trump's totally unnecessary trade war and the uncertainty he is (intentionally?) injecting into markets. There is no reason to expect that if there had been a different President elected, this outcome would have occurred.

The even broader point is that there are a lot of people invested (literally and emotionally) in a continuing bull run. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but suggesting that Trump or even less likely, DOGE have some master understanding of the economy and are doing this for its long-term health is an absolute fantasy.
I doubt they'd do any fiscal spending through safety nets, since they are dismantling them; I suppose bail-outs could be on the table. I've seen some analysts/economists claim that the Trump admin wants to devalue the USD to grow the manufacturing sector, and the admin seems to be pressuring the Fed to lower interest rates. The consensus seems to be that stagflation is what's actually going to happen. I don't quite understand why the admin wants to bring back manufacturing sector, because they're typically low-wage jobs (especially if not unionized), and unemployment was pretty low. Among the billionaire class, there seems to be a concerted effort to shed decent-paying jobs, so I guess the plan is for those people to go work on assembly lines.
I am pretty sure trump warns his friends when he is about to make another irrational stupid statement- they are investing accordingly- taking advantage of an upswing and a downturn

Not just the great depression but the greatest depression ever in history, I mean the biggest, noone ever caused a bigger depression

The Bigly Depression

However much pain we're feeling and will be feeling, as a nation not individuals, we deserve oh so much more for our inhuman crimes in the name of capitalist private profit. We destabilized entire nations trying to become societies solely to maintain access to their resources for our capitalist's exploitation.

Every American better hope nation state karma doesn't exist.

Oh fuck off with this "deserves" bs. Everything listed on that infographic happened before I was 18. I don't "deserve" any of this.
- Yeah you do.
  
  We've seen your browser history.
- You're screaming "fuck off, I don't deserve any of this because those thefts were carried out before I was 18", but you're screaming that sitting on the stolen furniture in a stolen house. The crimes mentioned predating your eighteenth birthday doesn't mean shit when you're still benefiting from the results of those crimes.
I'm still waiting people understand that the way Trump treat Zelensky isn't new in any way, most people are just aware of it now because it happened in Europe.
relax, dude

Damnit, I came here to blame Joe Biden, but it seems like everyone else beat me to it. Oh well, time to go tariff some more countries and then act shocked by the results....

Let’s call it the Trump Effect, shall we?

Let’s call it the Trump Slump
- Maybe Trump's tiny Dow size?

Is there any chance for a future where the economy that matters, real people's lives, production of useful goods and services, becomes decoupled from imaginary evaluations of billionaire's gambling results? It really rustles my jimmies when I hear that a result of some banksters bet can get working families evicted and jobs dissapear.

Easy, do not have billionaires....
Um no? Have you been paying attention, at all?

is america great again yet? I think not.

They just need to try harder.
- If they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, they’d be set for life.
Make America Great (Depression) Again?

To be fair, showing no historical correlation and just assuming the problem or separation started this year because it's specifically indexed to the start of the year, is garbage math. Like, you got the correct answer, but you did the problem completely wrong.

So the boycott is working? Let it continue.

Honestly, I did not think it would work!
What are you boycotting?
- Completely cut out all US food/drinks, other stuff it varies a bit but making an effort to avoid US stuff where practical.

I’m feeling pretty smug lately having always avoided the stock market so my money has been the same this whole time

Lol just wait until the reports come out about the inflation rate since Trump took office.
- Yeah but I still didn’t burn my money in stocks
Maybe should convert some of those dollars to Euros tho just in case
- I actually get paid in euros and just stopped converting
Buy the dip.

This is financial advice.
Bank of Mattress savers unite!
Look into physical gold ETFs as an alternative or addition to holding cash or cash related investments
lol it's not going to zero. It will rebound sooner or later. Just another cycle.
- lol so how much did you lose

Don't worry, the rest of the world will get pulled down when we really nose dive... hooray contagion.

I agree, but I don't think it will be as bad as the last few times for anyone but the US. Trump has managed to piss off literally the biggest trade partners the US has, so they will happily just invest elsewhere and leave the US economy in the dust instead of trying to survive the crash together.
- I also agree with you here.
  
  We'll pull the world down... but we will do significantly worse ourselves.
Yes, the global casino of interdependent pyramid schemes is extremely fragile.

Don't worry though. Capital will print as much money, build as many prisons, and blow up as many brown people as it takes to maintain hegemony.

I can't. Is this mental difficulties or that thing journalists do where they have to act like they were literally just born and don't know anything about the world? I don't know the dude in OP.

Wait, are you not aware of sarcasm?
- Honest to god, I really just missed it. Reading it now it's so blatantly sarcasm, I'm going to just have to blame it on a combination of lack of sleep and my being a dumbass.
- Pretty ironic for someone with the handle, JokeDeity.

This is why Warren buffet pivoted to cash liquid position.

That guy pours over countless documents and stats to make his moves. He probably knows what he's doing more than most when it comes to predicting market turns.

I mean I feel like a recession is inevitable, but I'm just some random guy.
- It absolutely is. I've sensed it coming for years now. Gen Y and Gen Z have been struggling under student loan debt. Car loans are getting years longer. People were micro-financing weddings and vacations. Now services like "Klarna" and Afterpay are just repackaged credit card debt.
  
  The majority of people in America can not survive. College degrees aren't enough to find a job, and raises/bonuses are non-existent. Most people are working for minimum wage, and that minimum wage is stagnant. If you had real estate or stocks, the boom in the housing and financial sector could offset this pressure, but with the majority of property getting swept up by large hedge funds, there's no room for average Americans to get their foot in the door with a mortgage.
  
  So what do people do? They stop buying. It's the same market-stagnation effect that deflation has, only with all the micro-economic stress that inflation creates. It happened before in 1929. It's happening again. Because America allowed itself to slip back into the capitalist trends that created the previous Gilded Age.

As the fellon in the White House said - „it’s just a small group, boycotting, attacking …“ well I don’t think so „Mr. president“

This is what happens when your president is a used car salesman.

What ever could the problem be? Tariffs! No tariffs. Tariffs! No tariffs ... well some, maybe. Tariffs! Delayed tariffs ... delayed tariffs again.

more like lol street amirite

How did Justin Trudeau manage this? I thought he was too busy making potholes?

I like the little hopeful bump before the inauguration.

That's not a bump. It's in line with the rest of the world.
- Yes, a bump in the world markets. On US news. A trend I hope we see less of in the future.
Still no idea why it happened, but it was a nice little bonus when I sold off all my positions before he came to power.
- Smart. It was the the hope of a business man coming in and doing things good for the market (not for people mind you, wall st is not that out of touch)

Note the vertical axis does not start at 0.

I don't think this was done deceptively. Most financial graphs like this don't start at 0.
It appears to be representing percent change from the close of the preceding period, so 100% isn't a totally unjustifiable axis.
- Yeah, I am probably just overthinking it, sorry. I would show percentage change as +10, 0, -10
It's starting at a reasonable point for the data shown, I'm not sure what your point is. Do you think this graph would be more readable if you had 80% of the vertical axis as wasted space so the graph could show nothing from 0 to 95?
- I don't care too much for my personal view because I think I can read the chart well. I met several people in my life that would misunderstand a chart if it would not show the axis starting at 0. I don't consider the space a waste. I consider it an indication that the shown value is less of an effect than it would indicate if the chart is zoomed in.
  
  To be completely honest, I just wanted to test that commenting on a thread on other lemmy instance from my new lemmy instance works.
And?
- And nothing, sorry if i implied anything. I just wanted to point it out. I appologise. This was my first comment on lemmy.

You know if you just use a sharpie to draw the line going up instead of down there isn't a problem anymore.

Everyone with ETFs targeting US stocks sweating right now

Oh no, better double down on the cuntishness, fire all the workers and give ourselves an enormous bonus!

USA is making itself weak and Canada + Europe strong.