UK citizens say it is more important to support Ukraine than to maintain good relations with US, survey shows

I don't know how the survey was done but if it's like a phone survey I would imagine that a lot of people would answer "I don't care" to whatever the question is. They just don't care about answering a phone survey.

There's always some percentage of people who are ignorant of global issues and want to stay out of things... You'd think they were Farage voters but actually they usually don't vote

Half of the people who voted*

Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).

It makes little difference to point out, but it's good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn't vote.

Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we'll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin's leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he's got something to compensate for.

Europeans are still clinging to the delusion that Trump is an aberration.

You are right, the problem is very much a widespread attitude in USA.
They need to modernize their democracy, and they need to modernize their interpretation and regulation of what free speech is.
The 2 main reasons USA is as fucked up as it is now, is that the 2 party system undermines democracy, and way too much misinformation is allowed.
You can't build democracy on lies.

I really really hope Americans will wake up soon, and realize this.

Only 1/3 of eligible voters voted for Trump. That’s what makes it even worse. 1/3 didn’t even fucking vote.

Yes, but it can't wait 4 years, because in 4 years Trump may have transformed USA government to a totalitarian regime.

And misinformation. That's how they get and hold power. Like what happened here in Ohio with the gerrymandering.

Only because the people allow it.
I know nobody can change that alone, but USA need to friggin get some graasroot movements going to get real democracy, and elect politicians that don't prioritize only the 1%.
The 2 party system simply doesn't work.

I absolutely agree, American democracy seriously needs to be reformed, as it is it is at best a dysfunctional democracy. And I think the evidence should be very clear on that now.

They are a greedy nation and poor allies.

They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it's absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country's ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.

Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we'd prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.

Even if you are right, there's a huge difference between what Trump is asking, and what normal presidents ask of you to be friends.
Being friends is supposed to be a 2 way relationship, but with Trump it's not.

17hr account throwing around shit.

Exactly. If anyone thinks Russia will stop at Ukraine, they're a fool

Under these conditions what is NATO?

Already-preexisting integration of most EU armies (and the rest aren't completely out of the loop) as well as Canada Turkey, Norway, and Iceland.

The long and short of it is if the US should bail out of NATO what is left is an absolute behemoth of a force with severe shortcomings in power projection and strategic airlift capacity. The latter only until Ukraine is admitted they have Antonov. Not sure whether we want much power projection but the lift capacity is a shortfall. On the upside we have more than enough stealth subs to stop others from projecting with aircraft carriers.

From the US side, strategically, this is just a self-inflicted wound: There's a couple of US soldiers in Europe as part of tripwire forces, relevant politically but not in combat terms, the rest is there to project force into the middle east. They'd be giving that up, I wonder what Israel thinks of that. The US would not have been capable to do Iraq or Afghanistan without European bases.

Sure, you're right about that. I should have said no good reason.

How dare you lob facts at us as if they're insults...

the NAZIs actually based some of thier systems on the americans racist policies, like segegation and what not. and we never actually eradicated our nazis sympathesizers from the 40s, they just passed it on to the next gen and the next after that.

With a little luck the orange shitler will withdraw troops from Europe (yeah, no, I don't dare to dream)

Happy to send you branstons pickle or Cadbury or something to ease your anxiety, though.

Idk why you think me of all people is gonna help you lol. I’m not trading places. No take backsies! Find a Farage supporter and ask them!

We should be better than that.

This account (that you responded to) was created a mere few hours ago. It might even have been created purely to troll people, possibly by someone who has gotten used to being banned using a recognizable account name.

On PieFed I find it very helpful to see an icon next to people's names indicating brand-new accounts. Some Lemmy apps can do that as well (I switched over to Voyager here to see if it would, but nope, at least not by default). Anyway I wanted to point out that it is a very useful feature, for exactly such scenarios as this!