What did we learn from Covid? (Jen Sorensen)

Oh, this reminds me. I was asked to go to a Chiropractic "doctor" this weekend for a check up. That's nonsense to begin with, but I went anyway.

She asked about my back hurting, and I mentioned that I threw it out really badly when I got COVID a year or two ago, and was stuck in bed coughing super hard for a week. Her immediate response was "I've heard the vaccine can do that."

... Like, fucking what? How god damn stupid do you have to be to hear "I threw my back out coughing really hard." and instantly try to insert your anti-science bullshit into the conversation?

Chiropractor. Stupid. Anti-science bullshit.

You repeat yourself.
- Oh man it gets worse. Medicine is so fucked now.
  
  My (telehealth) doctor noted my testosterone is a little low and suggested I use another online practitioner for testosterone replacement therapy since they can’t do that from their practice.
  
  She gave me a few places to check out (from her companies list, she didn’t personally vet them).
  
  They all have some anti-science bullshit or “As seen on JRE/Infowars”.
  
  I’m like…yeah, I’m not doing any of that. I’ll try diet, exercise, and proper sleep first. I’m not giving any of them my money, patronage, or information.
I was super mad when I went to a new dentist after my last one retired and he prescribed me homeopathic medicine.
- I hope you used homeopathic payment.
- A chiropractor once gave my mom homeopathic pills. I was a kid and didn't even know what homeopathy was at the time, but she gave me one and I said, "mom, this is sugar." She tried to argue with me about it and I kept telling her I know what sugar tastes like.
- I’m curious. What for? Something non-dental the dentist noticed or something dental-related?
If you want a bone medic go to the traumatologist, not those shaman-like chiropractors
- A shaman would be a step up because I don't think shamans actively make anything worse.
- Trust me, it wasn't my choice.
I was a teenager and was having back issues. My mother sent me to a chiropractor, which I didn't know was a bunch of bullshit back then. She took an X-ray of my spine (how is that legal?) and told me she'd fix the issue in my upper back. I told her the pain was in my lower back and she kept insisting that no, it was an upper back problem that I needed to be treated for.

And that was when I realized it was all bullshit.

Now I know that it was come up with by a guy who said he got the information from a ghost. Seriously.

https://www.iflscience.com/the-first-chiropractor-claimed-the-treatment-was-inspired-by-a-ghost-67389
How did you not just walk out of there?
- I honestly thought I might have to, but it took months to get the appointment, and I didn't want to have to wait all over again and just hope I got a better location next time.
I don't get why anyone would want to be a chiropractor.

Nurse: 4 years of schooling, high salary (yes it should be higher), useful to everyone around you in medical situation, good benefit packages, respected, and you can do so much with that degree.

Chiropractor: 6 years of schooling, salary is low, useless in a medical situation, terrible benefits, not respected, and the only thing you can do with that degree is what you "trained" for.

Become a nurse instead!
- The fact that Chiropractic is pseudoscience; realigning your spine to allow magical spirit energy to flow better, because they think every single aliment from acne to cancer is caused by blocked chi flow, isn't enough?

Measles, that old-timey disease we didn't really think about as kids because of vaccinations. Welp, that's coming back. Thanks to fucking idiots.

"BUT MAH FREEDOMS!"
- They're free to die however they choose. Or however death chooses them.
It's coming back thanks to those vaccine mandates that were brought in.

You don't put people at ease about a new vaccine by saying "you must have it otherwise you can't participate in society". That has the opposite effect and makes people even more reluctant and sceptical. It also gives anti-vaxxers more ammo for their nonsense that they can spread online.

All that combined has led to a big increase in vaccine hesitancy and scepticism, and the worst thing is that it's now harming kids as a result.
- It's coming back thanks to those vaccine mandates that were brought in.
  
  Nah, it's because the US is full of whiny babies who don't want to recognize other people's authority and expertise over their whims, and rather have disease and mass murders than let other people say to them there is a better course of action.
- There's always one!
  
  I hate to break to to you, but public health policy does not and should not consider the opinion of lunatics. I legitimately cannot believe this isn't obvious.
- No. It's called people aren't scientists and they are NOT qualified to make decisions regarding public health. Shut the fuck up and do what you are told. If you can't find peace in knowing that someone is smarter in the field of biology and sociology, get a therapist and talk to them.
- Measles cases were on a steady rise before COVID. They just got a bump from the anti-vax crowd being given further ammunition, coupled with one group deciding public health during a pandemic should be made into a political football. In fact, the year with the highest number of cases in recent times was 2019, the year before COVID was on most people's radar. It also saw a major drop the next year, likely due to all the physical distancing.
- Idiots will have stupid responses to anything.
  
  "You must get vaccinated to control the spread of this dangerous disease" -> "how dare you tell me what to do. I won't do it"
  
  "This vaccine is optional, but please get it to control the spread of this dangerous disease " -> "well if it's optional I won't get it. Sounds risky."
  
  That's not even touching the like "the UN logo shows Antarctica at the center therefore the worst is flat" level insanity.
- That's a long winded way to say thanks to fucking idiots
- Bro you always had to get vaccines for school. It's not a new thing.
- I AGREE! Even though before Covid we also couldn't participate in things like travel or schooling or sometimes even workout with the Right Vaccine!

I gained the superpower of crippling anxiety, depression and panic attacks. I had very mild anxiety prior to Covid, but something broke in my brain after I got sick.

I am anxious and yet constantly tired. I can barely function before noon and can't shut my brain off to sleep.

I hat every fucking person on Earth who said it was bs.

I've been feeling the same way. Some days I've felt better, but I don't really get back to where I was. It feels like my discipline has broken down.
You sound a little like me.

Give liposomal C plus L-Arginine a try.

There's been some studies showing it helps with long COVID.

I feel a little improvement. Not great. Some.
- You might as well recommend some healing crystals or magnetic wristbands.
  
  @Gerudo@lemm.ee should speak to a doctor about possible treatments and not take random unproven advice from the internet.

I was assaulted by a family member for not giving “IV Ivermectin” to someone with COVID who I had just crash intubated (honestly thought they were going to code, but somehow didn’t) back during the Delta wave.

My view of humanity has gotten pretty pessimistic since COVID. If I had the guts I’d honestly love to go create an insulated community of people who actually think about stuff and want to help each other.

Yeah, covid broke my faith in humanity. When we encounter a real global threat that could wipe us off the face of the planet, we will not rise to the occasion and band together.

Climate change, disease, aliens, asteroids, a super volcanic eruption. Just not gonna happen the way it's portrayed in movies.
- And it’s this weird thing where a decent percentage of humanity was working super hard to save everyone else—did save most everyone else—and a ton of people are just going on about the “Fauci Ouchie” and nanochips.
  
  The general public has no idea how many people we saved with the mRNA vaccines and critical care medicine. They’re blatantly oblivious to it. The death toll would’ve been monumentally worse without a coordinated effort of public health, healthcare, and research. Yet no one has any idea. COVID was simultaneously one of humanity’s greatest unrecognized accomplishments and one of its greatest blunders.
  
  If you’ve ever read or watched The Expanse series I feel like it’s spot on as far as humanity’s response to disasters.
- Except it maybe will happen like in Don't Look Up
My views on humanity fell off a cliff in 2016. I've always been pretty cynical but that was rock bottom. Imagine my surprise that there was another cliff to fall off of in 2020. And the worst that happened to me was getting called "genocidal" because I don't believe "why not, maybe it works" is scientific enough to justify giving everyone ivermectin.

It is completely despicable to attack a healthcare professional because they don't agree with the conspiracy theory of the day. Let alone a family member. I'm sorry they decided to do that to you.

All this because a lone dimwit didn't want cloth masks to muss his makeup.
- Thanks, I appreciate it.
  
  I have a pretty high tolerance for disrespect (either from patients or other specialties) since I work in Emergency Medicine, but COVID was just off the charts.
I nearly got assaulted by another staff member, sort of defended myself from it by just shoving him away and creating distance, and then I ended up on a disciplinary over it. Despite everything he'd seen he still thought he was hard-done by and tried to take it out on myself. I had an exemplary record for nearly 28 years up until then.
No need to create such a community - there's one ready-made in Iceland! They even had a vet who was on top of the vaccine* research in the early days.

EDIT: Just looked up that story, and (a) it was in the Faroe Islands not Iceland, and (b) they adapted their salmon-testing labs to detect covid in humans, allowing them to test 5% of the population per day, locally.

I still see "heroes work here" banners outside of healthcare facilities and nursing homes. I imagine a number of the low-paid and overworked staff say "fuck you, pay me more" every time they drive by too.

I created an extremely awkward silence at work when someone was like "are you all clapping at 7pm?" (Because there was a thing where people could clap and cheer for workers at 7pm?), and I said "if you really care, you could give them money. They need that more than claps".

Silence.

These were all software developers working safely from home making six figures.
- They'll all be there with thoughts and prayers..... and apparently claps. I mean, I know that's what "I" do whenever someone wants money from me.... I'll think about them, pray I'm never in that circumstance, and clap for them. Seems to help.
  
  That's sarcasm..... for anyone instantly seething and spitting foam.
  
  The awkward silence is because they know that clapping is not doing anything useful.
What was really annoying was other industries saying the same thing. There was a laundry that had "heros work here" on their sign, as if they were anywhere near the same level.
- That's the thing everyone who had to stay at work in public took a considerable risk, liki the employees at the grocery store. They deserve a lot of praise, and no one cares.
- No. This is the wrong thinking imo.
  
  I worked/work for a hospital Trust here in the UK. Any job that brings you within close proximity to other people had a quantifiable risk. Hindsight is great and all that, but in the early days of any pandemic you dont know what you can touch safely, where you can breath safely. Our Government tried to bail some out, but not everyone can get help or close shop. Anyone who was afraid and still struggled through it gets my respect.
It's got to be pretty god damn insulting for sure.

Also would have accepted the meme with the Muppet like puppets being asked "and what did we learn?' and they all scream "Nothing!!"

I wonder if it would've been on net better if COVID had been deadlier. Like if people had been dying from a new disease with blood gushing out of their eyes, would idiots have taken it seriously? Probably not.

The funniest thing is watching all those pandemic/deadly virus movies before 2021. In all those movies, governments, people, scientists, the military and world leaders all work cooperatively together in an orderly way to solve the problem and try to save people and in the end succeed because they worked together.

In reality, we had a world leader suggest that we could inject disinfectant or use UV light inside the body, panic buying for toilet paper and people in North America start near riots for being asked to wear a mask.
- It was a lot more like Jaws where the mayor won't close the beach to save lives because it will mess with the tourism business.
Not long before covid took off, the first case of ebola in the US was confirmed and people flipped the fuck out. I'm fairly certain that if ebola were actually spreading even a little, those same assholes who treated masks like some kind of human rights violation would have been more than ready to quarantine it, lock everything down, and burn the entire affected area to the ground.
- Some of those people would have formed a militia to hunt down anyone who they suspected of being infected. It would have been a long, drawn out, paranoid massacre.
- There actually were lots of people who started out being like "they are sweeping it under the rug wel are all going to die!" Only to turn around and become anti mask zealots when the public policy controls went into place. Some people really do just have a very childish take on authority of any kind, and I say that as a person who is very skeptical of authority myself.
I think Covid was right in the bad spot of seriousness. If it was less deadly, it would be less of an issue. If it was more deadly, it would have been taken more seriously. But it was right at the point that people could say ehhhhhh (encouraged by their media of course).

Although I'm still amazed over a fucking million Americans dead and people are acting like it didn't even happen.

*US 1,180,025 deaths. Worldwide 7,037,007 deaths.

I can't believe people are falling for Trump's "Four years ago you were better off" bullshit

April, 2020 unemployment was almost 14%
I can't believe people still adore T@&#! after he has repeatedly grifted them, lied to them, demonstrated time and again he has no empathy and is a horrible human all around.

He grifted us over medical supplies during a pandemic. He damn near ended our democracy and became a dictator. His list of retributions he has declared if he gets elected is terrifying. Racist and classiest as hell.

And they ignore everything and just parrot the " hE iS pRo LIfE!" BS

Worked through this myself. Not as a nurse or care assistant, but as an NHS binman. Still saw lots of shit I basically cant talk about (not due to emotion but due to Trust policy as its a bit too specific). Saw doctors, nurses, care assistants walking around like zombies after having worked 18 hours straight. Saw morons walk in and film them thinking there was some major conspiracy. Heard the lungs of patients rattling as they struggled to breath. Two workers I knew died. Heard from colleagues how some other morons had "served legal papers" on the staff (thats not how you get "served" here btw) and then saw it on the BBC 6 oclock news. I also saw the hard work of every delivery driver, supermarket worker.

What did I learn? That some people will fight to save your life, even if you've not taken heed of all the advice.

I have a two year old niece now. I'm reminded of when I was a kid in the early 80s and war veterans would come and talk to us about WW2 and Korea. I am thinking it would be good if some of us did the same for these kids in a few years. If we went and talked about what we saw, not the scary/nasty stuff, but the stuff that makes people hopeful for humanity.

I currently live in a province in Canada, that is currently ruled by a government that is governing under what's basically an MO of Covid and vaccine revenge.

There's no hope for humanity. Absolutely none. That's my lesson from Covid. The majority of the people around me, my neighbours, etc, are basically all incapable of logical thought and highly susceptible to disinformation and rogue actors.

I have to admit, before Covid i didn't think people would be joining the war on disease on the side of disease in any meaningful numbers and yet here we are. I think we may be in decline as a civilization, not sure how that kind of brain rot is survivable.

It's very survivable, the same way we've always survived - if you see a moron saying that sort of shit, punch them in the face.
- Their heads are like rocks. You'll just break your hand.

This pretty well sums it up. It's hard to believe it's been four years. It used to feel like it'd been ongoing for forever. Now it feels like a dream. What a fucked up thing we went through and how fucked is it that my brain can just sort of "forget". I guess that's how we cope. It isn't evolutionarily advantageous to dwell on the real threats. Only on the stupid social fuckups that happened that embarrassed me.

Why are you talking about it like it's over? Roughly 30000 people are getting long covid per day, right now. That shit is disabling. We're still in a pandemic and we're not taking it seriously, at all.
I truly think there is a component of unprecedented, shared psychological distress (everyone needing to stay inside like solitary confinement) and post-COVID cognitive distortion that makes the entire pandemic feel like some sort of fugue state. I was working in healthcare during it and when I look back at those years it feel like someone that was a dream. I’m in my 30s and no other part of my life feels like that.
Just to say, as a hospital worker, that Covid is still very much around. Its not killing in the same numbers but it does kill many. Many who will be missed by their loved ones. Covid still leads to long covid in some.
It's amazing how quickly we adapt and forget. But when I stop and think about it life was so different before Covid and it's just never been the same. My workplace has just never been able to adjust to the staffing shortages and it's hell.

Turns out conservatism was the real plague all along.

Covid awareness? On Lemmy? Getting over a thousand points? It feels like I'm in a dream.

Reminder to everyone that wearing a well fitting n95 mask in public takes very little effort but helps others (who may be immunocompromised, already battling long covid or other conditions, or otherwise vulnerable) and yourself avoid getting sick which can save people from chronic pain, disability, death, and more. Please do what you can to take precautions and prevent the spread of disease!

PS: I recommend 3M's Aura respirators. I know 3M sucks (understatement) but they do make a good and affordable n95. If you have issues with your glasses fogging up with masks on, this one is for you.

During all that time all I could think of was the shareholders.

Covid was the most terrifying time of my life (i know covid itself is still here). I have a severe health anxiety disorder and a single ache of spot on my body can instantly convince me i have a terminal cancer or illness and i WILL die. After about a year i finally build up all courage to go to the supermarket with my partner, wearing a good fitting mask. We stood at the checkout and this guy asked another guy who wasn't wearing a mask, and standing waaaay to close to them, to please keep his distance and to please wear a mask. The guy instantly got aggressive and knocked the man out for asking him to please keep distance and wear a mask. I didn't go anywhere again.

I still struggle with all of this. After 2016 it felt like people got a free pass for conspiracy and fascist shit. I'm from europe but the trump presidency had a big influence here too. So many conspiracies that trump shouted got popular over here and fascist parties got A LOT more popular. Hell, a fascist party won the election here less than a year ago.

I lost a lot of hope and love for humanity. But i also see smart and beautiful humans fight for us every day. Whether its with climate and antifascist protests or through videos i find on social media or the news. And i cant give up hope or stop fighting for them. I cant let those people down. Because if people like that exist, there is hope.

I felt the same way as you. I actually left America because of the crazies. During early covid, during the Delta phase. I had someone yell at me while I walked to my car because I was wearing a mask. Scariest shit I have ever felt.

We learned that in the zombie apocalypse, there is gonna be people that march right into the horde convinced it wont kill them and that zombies arent real.

My only time with covid nearly took me out, and that was with my both vaccinations(both parts of each). Decided after that to continue wearing masks to large public gatherings.

I've been through some rough surgeries due to certain medical conditions I have, but nothing compares to the aches of covid while your chest feels like it's got multiple weights on it and you're seeing stars with every little small cough. I never want to feel that way again.

Mastodon link https://mastodon.social/@jensorensen/112146317902691496

Oof

Governments have way too much control

I don't usually do this, but...

In the context, "I know, over a million Americans have died" stinks nationalism from a distance - because it implies that the tragedy is not people dying; it's only when those people pay taxes to the same government as you. (16~28M people died, regardless of country, by the way.)

Not sure if the author realises the nationalism in that. Probably not.

Seeing the worst meaning in everything, eh?

As a species we are more worried about things happening close to us. That's how we work.

A kid dying in Uganda does not move you because why would it? A kid dying in your hometown is something else.

Don't pretend to be superior about it.
- The very conflation between "my hometown" and "the territory controlled by the government that I pay taxes to" is nationalistic in nature.
  
  Your assumption that I'm seeing the worst meaning in everything is partially incorrect. Pragmatics taught me to look for the implicatures of what is said, but it is not just the worst. And the implicature is there, due to the maxim of quantity. (Note that not even in this case I'm "seeing" the worst meaning, as it wouldn't be justified by the text.)
  
  Regarding your Uganda example: if someone lives in, say, Texas, why would they care more about the deaths in Maine than the ones in Uganda? This gets specially nasty once you swap "Uganda" with "Coahuila". I see the exact same thing where I live, by the way, before some assumer starts distorting this into a "y u bashin unired starians? i is so confyuzed...".
  
  Don’t pretend to be superior about it.
  
  Yet another assumption: that I'm "pretending to be superior" about not feeling attached to a government or the concept of nation. Please distinguish between what's implied by something said/written vs. what you assume from it. The former is to retrieve information; the later is to make shit up.
  
  The main reason that I'm pointing this out is to highlight a specific right-wing discourse (nationalism) that is so ingrained into society that even us, at the left, give it a free pass. I'm focusing on the discourse, not putting myself on a higher ground.
  
  [EDIT reason: clarifications + trying to be slightly less verbose.]

Bootlicker vibes

Are we still pretending the measures they took actually worked? I mean really guys, if you think that we needed more intervention to stop the covid then I dont really know what to tell you.

Well, we took a ton of half measures and performed a lot of safety theater. Big shocker, it didn't work well. Either way, the point wasn't to stop the disease entirely, but spread out the cases to "flatten the curve" and reduce load on hospitals, which it did do.
- The thing is, even now we could totally wipe out COVID and other airborne diseases if we just handed out N95 masks to everyone and they actually wore the fucking things. But counting on voluntary participation is a pipe dream, since people will inevitably take their masks off at home and whatnot.
- No, it didnt work at all. We literally knew lockdowns didnt work in spring of 2020, it was all a steaming pile of bullshit including flattening the curve.
The measures worked much better on the countries that applied them more throughly. As far as European countries go, Italy got struck the earliest without taking measures and their healthcare system collapsed; Spain took note of the situation, applied extremely harsh measures, and while some regions went through severe problems, we got through it far better than Italy.
- You are comparing apples to oranges, why not compare america to america to see what worked instead?

Would it be funny if the race/gender was reversed? Would that cause outrage?

Comics rely on stereotypes a lot to provide context. It'd be less statistically likely to be set up the other way, so that'd be an artistic choice that needs some justification.

Sure, I could draw a black nazi instead of a white one, but it would need more explaining. Probably too much for a comic.
- And speaking of nazis, they certainly like their stereotypes too. It's an interesting parallel that you raise.
I don't really think this comic is "haha funny", but I think the comic would still have the same effect.
No, it would just not change anything about the comic.

both sides, and I truly mean it

Did you know that there was a specific pandemic response team established as part of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit by the Obama administration in 2015? And that that team was eliminated and its staff reassigned by the Trump administration in 2018?

It's thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer's position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

In May 2018, the team was disbanded and its head Timothy Ziemer, top White House official in the NSC for leading U.S. response against a pandemic, left the Trump administration, the Washington Post reported ( here ). Some members of the global health and security team were merged into other units within the NSC, the article said.

[...]

There is disagreement over how to describe the changes at the NSC’s Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense in 2018. The departure of some members due to “streamlining” efforts under John Bolton is documented. The “pandemic response team” as a unit was largely disbanded.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN21C32C/

Since COVID-19 exploded in the states, both Vice President Mike Pence as head of the coronavirus task force, and Jared Kushner, have somewhat stepped into the role. But there has yet to be a whole-of-government mobilization, as Monaco described. Instead, the response has been ad hoc, shifting day to day depending on the mood of the president who has refused to accept that the buck stops with him.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

The Democratic party established a team specifically intended to respond to crises such as COVID-19. The Republican party removed it to cut costs.
- Sorry, what I mean is you're all insufferable arseholes, and being right doesn't change that. Just hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils without the smugness. Not to single you out especially, mind.
Sir you are being the idiot from the comic
Don't. They'll just dogpile you. They just want to burn witches.
- No, we just want to stop people from believing in witchcraft. There's a difference.