Why is living with your parents considered a bad thing?
I have seen in many US shows where they portray guys who are living with parents as losers, or there are jokes or memes about it, I never get it.
Implication is that you're incapable of being self sufficient.
Too broke to move out, your parents still cook for you / do your laundry, can't bring a girl home without your parents hearing you get it on, etc.
Implication is that you're incapable of being self sufficient.
Holdover stereotype from when living on your own with a service job was realistically doable. Which just flat out is not the case in most cities now.
Although not wanting your parents hear you bang is totally fair.
Agreed. I think this is more of a late 90s / early 2000s thing. It's become more acceptable today for sure, especially if you're going to university or something.
Traditionally, being self sufficient enough to move out of your parents house and live on your own was considered a major, basic, and early benchmark of growing up, adulthood, and success. Sort of like taking your first steps, it was just considered a "bare minimum" benchmark.
That impression, the idea of moving out on your own being the bare minimum start to being a successful adult, has not kept up with the modern age and the economy we've grown up in. The idea that anyone should be able to move out on their own came about in an age when a single adult working a basic job full time could afford a house and support a family on their income alone. That just is not even close to the case now, but some societal memes take longer to change than others.
It's this. This is the eloquent and succinct answer OP. No an upvote wouldn't have been enough.
I've been looking for rentals lately. Every inspection has dozens upon dozens of people show up. Rental vacancies are at a tiny fraction of a percent. No landlord will take someone if the rent will cost more than 30% of their income. To qualify for a studio apartment it takes almost double the median wage.
I hate it so much. I've budgeted so that I know I can afford these places on my income, I have a significant pile of savings and a stable job. I have been looking for a place for six months and been rejected from them all.
I've given up. Even if I could get a place it'd be cheaper to pay a fucking mortgage.
Very very well put.
I'll just add that it's hard to fuck in a house full of your parents, and few people want to deal with that.
It isn't anymore. That's dead.
It was, like 25 years ago. Well, maybe 15 years ago.
Pre-2007.
Because back then people were making good money out of college, and they were able to buy a house for themselves. Shit, they didn't even need to go to college. As long as you were working hard before 2007, and you were going to be able to find a down payment on a house as long as you didn't have some kind of financial affliction.
That's not to say that gen X had it easy as compared to those before them, but there's a clear separation.
Millennials tried their hardest not to live at home, just because of the social stigma.
Gen Z is feeling that stigma less. That's why you're probably here questioning why it's even a thing. You're probably Gen Z.
Jen alpha won't see it as strange.
I really hope the stigma goes away because unless the world economy improves, a lot of people will have to stay with parents until a lot later in life.
It is a cultural thing though. It's not an issue at all in most of SE Asia.
Because it used to be a sign that someone was unsuccessful or “lazy”. Now it just means the housing market is absolute dog shit, and people making 200k a year still can’t afford to buy a house near their work.
Multi-generational households have been the most common form of familial living arrangements in human history, so, take that as you will.
The idea that if you're still living at home that your parents are still taking care of you. That they still make your food, do you laundry, pay your bills, etc. there is also a stereotype that you're emotionally stunted since you haven't moved out and had to take care of yourself. This is often summarized in the neck beard living in his parents basement meme.
I'm not saying this is true, but that's the idea.
Thats what they sell you, the real reason is that people living with their parents are not spending money in the house market.
No, that isn't it
Well, yeah, but there was a time when you could buy a brand new home for like $125.99, and at that price point living at your parents house would have been weird.
For 58 years young people had enough income to support themselves fine, so living with your parents was due to either fear of being out on your own, laziness, or another dependency. All unattractive qualities.
In the US, wages were high enough that you could afford rent and a decent living as an unskilled laborer until fairly recently.
Also, if you lived with your parents you could not fuck. Even if your parents were not religious, it was a social value and they probably weren't cool with it. And your date probably wasn't cool with it wither, because it was weird.
I assume you are American, and probably not Hispanic?
Because these assumptions are extremely cultural.
Anyways, for white Americans "Self-sufficiency" (or Self-reliance as Ralph Waldo Emmerson called an extreme version of it) is an old Puritan value, like hardwork and lifelong monogamy.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. You're not off base. My family is Hispanic and my mom would love it if I lived with her till I'm 40.
Multigenerational living is also a big thing in Asia.
Not just cultural, but also time sensitive. If this were even 10 years ago then living with your parents would seem like weird, but today? Understand why it would still live at home or live with a person or multiple people even
I disagree that the culture currents have changed that fast.
If the economy recovered and gave much better prospects for young people and housing was cheaper, they'd still be expected to move out on their own.
I think people understand the realities of our current situation, but usually multigenerational housing is still not considered an ideal situation.
So i started living back with my mom when i was in my late 20s, i lost a 70k job due to bullshit. Then i got back to working hoping to move out..... and..... covid hit..... i was laid off after a year, and i just havent got back to working. I live with my mom who is disabled and in very bad health over conditions i dont know how to spell. Then i got a dui after my old boss died, i wasnt even driving just sitting in the car drunk by a lake. So now i cant drive for another couple years and am finding it hard to work some whete close that i can get a ride that also doesnt make me be around a shit ton of people who i might get sick from and then bring it back to my mother.
No i didnt answer your question, but i tried to outline the why of someone living back with their parents.
Were you going to sleep by that lake, or did the cops just catch you a bit early for your taste?
I was sitting writing in a book when the park ranger came by, he asked me to move my car and as soon as i took it off the hand brake it rolled backwards. So i asked him to call the police to help deal with the situation. So i really brought it upon myself but i thought they would help pull a car out from the water? But instead they let it sink when a simple whinch wouldve gotten it out. So yeah its my fault
It suggests they can't afford to pay rent. It's an old stereotype that is kind of redundant nowadays since (a) most people renting can't afford it anymore and (b) different cultures are way more accepting and even encouraged living with your family. Most people understand that now.
You still here the saying buts it's more about NEETs taking advantage of family rather than being smart
Somehow this became a cultural thing in the US. In some other countries like in South America it’s perfectly normal for 3-4 generations to live under 1 roof.
My guess is it’s tied to making people spend more money for capitalism. The effect it’s had on families is not very positive. It leads to things like elderly people draining thousands from their savings or family members a month for nursing homes. People have to hire child care when otherwise family members could watch a child. Children grow up with more distance from older relatives. Buying additional homes and cars is way more expensive than sharing them. Additional cable and utility bills. More appliances. More food waste.
Ok this is a super fascinating intersection of American social history
So the first thing you have to always keep in mind when thinking about Americans and their behavior is that the country was founded by people so absurdly religious that the British kicked them out. Then, along with some wealthy land owners, they said "fuck off" right back to the crown, declared "no take-backs", and went on about 100 years of aggressive westward expansion.
If you're not familiar with the phrase "manifest destiny" it's worth looking up. It's fundamental to American society
Fast forward a bit to post-WWII and the economic boom of the time. "The American Dream" - and the promise to our returning soldiers - was owning your own house with a yard, wife, kids, dog, and a car. And given our history, and the return of thousands and thousands of young men from the war, that kinda became the measuring stick of basic success: moving out.
And of course since America is the land of opportunity, if you can't do even that much, you've only got yourself to blame /s
We all know the meme of "striking out on your own" as a symbol of maturity. This is just what happens when "striking out on your own" becomes a cultural identity
Are you there yet?
I am now! Just edited
I'm 23 and still living with my dad. Why wouldn't I take the deal to have no rent while I work full time at a decent job so I can pay off my student loans? Sounds stupid to move out at least for me right now
Why dont you pay him any rent? Houses are expensive and you are using electricity, water, gas etc. Im sure he would appreciate it if you just decided to pay your way.
Edit: Since im being downvoted i want to add some context.
The tone of the message im responding to (or at least the way it read to me) was that this person is taking advantage of their dad. They said
Why wouldn't I take the deal to have no rent while I work full time at a decent job so I can pay off my student loans? Sounds stupid to move out at least for me right now
It doesn't come off like they have discussed and agreed on anything with their dad.
It sounds like they are earning a decent wage and haven't even considered getting their own place.
It sounds like they want to milk their dads generosity for everything they can so they can have an easier life.
Now ABSOLUTELY i cant be sure and could be completely wrong. But that's how it reads. Like they don't give a shit and are acting selfishly and dont even see how its selfish.
To be clear, i dont think the dad should impose rent or any kind of fee on them. I know how hard it is to get a home as a young person, and i likely won't be asking my kids for rent. I just found the attitude i perceived in that post to be asinine.
This is also age and culturally contextual. If kid and dad are on the same page about why junior is still living there, and if Dad is financially secure, he may want kid to pay down debt and be ready to jump straight to a nice place of their own. Now, if the family unit overall could use the help, and there is no specific plan for junior to move out, and and they're just sandbagging to have more money in their pocket after paying down student loans, it could be kinda shitty. Paying down the debt is not bad; minimizing overall cost of living for the family is not bad; what Boop2133 does with their money beyond loan payments might be bad.
It comes from the Individualism ideology that Western culture holds dear. Americans just hold it tighter. It can be argued that the cause of this is American capitalism, which has greater focus on measuring success by one's ability to consume (can you afford it, how much can you afford, are you self-reliant, your ability to consume more and better than you did last year).
I'd add on that the expectation in an individualist society like the US is to become independent and move out. Those ideas are used synonymously in a lot of contexts. Someone who hasn't moved out can be seen as lacking independence. Of course that isn't necessarily true, but it's the perception.
For a young person growing up with these ideas as the standard, there can be a certain safety in forgoing that independence. That was my situation for years, where I was financially independent, but moved back home after my roommates moved away. I was in my mid twenties before I moved out for good.
Because then you can't yodel while fucking your girlfriend/boyfriend.
This is one reason "love hotels" are a thing in Japan where multi-generational living and/or thin walls are very common.
Well, you can... it'll just be really uncomfortable around the dinner table afterward.
In Finland it's very easy to move on your own because the government will basically pay your living costs if you don't have any money. So very few people live with their parents past 20 years.
Just another reason I like the nordic countries. So much support for its citizens.
Source: 30+ y/o American living with their aunt, who also can't afford rent solo after a divorce.
It depends on your age. Living with your parents at 10 is different than 20 and is different than 40.
Ever since I was older than 25 or so, if I was going to go on a date with someone, if they lived with their parents that's a huge complication. How're we going to fuck? What if their parents don't have good boundaries? How can I gauge if they know how to be an adult? Like, what if their mom still does their laundry and they don't know how to take care of themselves?
It's a proxy measurement for independence and being able to take care of themselves.
It's a little different if they're taking care of their parents. Still not great, but doesn't have the "Do they even know how to take care of themselves?" problems.
There are bootstraps you haven't appropriately pulled up if you live at home.
The more legitimate reason is that there's a school of thought that you can't become a fully-fledged, independent adult without putting some distance between youself and the folks that raised you. There's a difference between someone who never left home and is content to just stay in the status quo, vs an adult who maybe went to off to college or was away from home for some period of time while working that has had to come back due to challenging circumstances and doesn't plan to stay longer than they need to. Obviously, the stereotype is of the former and not the latter.
Mainly the push for a false family narrative called the 'Nuclear Family', which was idolized since the 60s as a pop psych experiment that has obviously failed.
Some claim it was deliberate to prop up the nursing home industry and to force middle class families into poverty by making it less likely they pool their resources.
Some claim it was a marketing move, as 'nuclear family' homes are significantly less happy per capita than homes with 3 generations living under one roof. Happy people buy less shit to make them happy.
Nuclear families are already a big thing since the industrial revolution. Yes there was an idolizing happening, but this is not the main reason for it being so wide-spread. With wage labour, urbanization and higher mobility it is just fitting quite well to the overall circumstances, to not have multi-generational homes
If both people in a marriage have very specialized jobs it's hard enough to find two jobs in the same city. Imagine doing this with two or three generations of people.
Um the kids and grandparents aren't working, or to be more accurate: the grandparent's job is taking care of the kids, and considering how expensive child care is, it's cheaper just to give your granparents room and board. Plus they'll love the time with the kids.
PLUS 2 incomes required for a family is one of the most destructive economic moves we have ever made, and it has done untold damage to our child raising practices.
Because they're racist cult members and visits are awkward enough let alone living there. Might just be me tho
r/QanonCasualties . Lemmy doesn't have an equivalent yet but you're not alone
If you’re in an East Asian culture, it’s not.
Seems to even be expected that you live with your parents.
This dates back to when buying a house in your twenties wasn’t a crazy idea out of a science fiction novel.
They're seen as not progressing through the expected stages of american life. It comes off as a refusal to grow up but obviously that's not always the case.
Probably because so many parents suck.
Historical cultural difference between the US and other countries. Although it is less prevalent now, it was expected for a male to be on his own and "leave the nest" as soon as they graduated high school, with college being that transition point if an education was pursued.
The old America where you left home as soon as you could and built your own life with hard work and skill is long gone, but the trope and the expectations are still there.
If you want to get to the heart of a terrible practice or belief, look at who is pushing it (not simply buying it) and who is benefiting. This is a very recent idea (like, you might still be able to find a grandma who was raised before that stupid shit took off) pushed to keep people poor and generally weaker than they otherwise would be. If you've got multiple generations, or even families, living together they have far more breathing room economically.
"If you want to get to the heart of a terrible practice or belief, look at who is pushing it (not simply buying it) and who is benefiting."
Great advice for every belief.
Makes things awkward when you want to bring a lady back to your place.
I'm trying to find these places that a single person can afford because God damn, I can't imagine that conversation being any less awkward with a roommate. "Like, hey bro, I know this is your place too and all, but you mind leaving for a bit so we can fuck for a while?"
It's way less awkward when it's a roommate. When I've had roommates and it's the first time having a particular person over, everyone just kinda knows and no one needs to say anything.
So it's more like:
"..."
"Oh yeah, I just remembered I was supposed to meet someone, see ya later bro!"
But generally even that's rare. Mostly it's just "[yawn]... I think I'll turn in, enjoy the rest of the movie, you two!"
Unless you're sharing a bedroom with someone. But I've done this too, so someone has to sleep on the coach or whatever. So yeah that can be awkward. But still way less awkward than taking someone home to meet the parents when you just started dating.
Especially when one of your parents goes on about how Mexicans or Puerto Ricans don't have any motivation and only want to collect money from the government and your only sibling is married to a woman who is a lawyer. (Half Puerto Rican)
High rent is why you learn the art of silent sex
I never understood this. If rent wasn't so stupid high I would've had my own place long ago.
are you from east or southeast or south Asia
Yes
American culture values independence and individualism. The perception is that if you don't "move out" it's because you are dependent. If you decide to take care of your parents later, they move in with you and not the other way around.
My parents suck. If you have to put up with their shit you're definitely a loser.
Glad I don't live with your parents.
Seing how most US parrents raise their children, I do believe you.
Purely for dumb reasons. If you don't need to escape from them and it makes financial sense go for it and ignore anyone who judges you for it... they're assholes.
It can be a bad thing for your parents if you are not contributing in any way. Humiliation doesn't always help in promoting self-improvement but it is a social tool that establish social expectations. Producing value is expected in most societies. What changes is what value ought to be defined.
Because the people who write American media are the same people with investments in real estate.
I would have but I got caught up in the great recession before I could leave.
then when I finally got enough money to consider looking for a place, I received a very serious medical condition that wiped out finances and seriously affected my working ability. this condition also makes it almost necessary for someone to be around. so unless I hit the powerball or megamillions I'm going to be in my parents house for a while.
Because the people at the top who greenlight everything are rich and think anyone that would live with their family past the age of 18 is a lazy shit stain. That's the answer. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make a shred of sense, it's just the truth.
in the US, we value independence - and living with your parents after you're 18 is the polar opposite, or so society would lead you to believe.
In 10 years, that will be the norm.
Now that a) it's impossible to afford rent and it's becoming more common and b) we're transitioning from Boomers (who tended to have a more antagonistic and condescending relationship with their children) to Gen X being the "older generation", I suspect that perception is in the process of changing now-a-days.
But previous generations were expected to nag the shit out of their kids to get a job and/or spouse and a house so the parents could do cruises full time in their retirement or some such. So to a large extent, it was societal pressure and people got the idea that living with your parents was "pathetic" *from their parents.
Back when I was a kid in the early 2000s we still had the mentality that it was easy to get a good job and buy a house and love by yourself. So when a young adult didn't, the stigma was that they were too lazy to get a great job handed to them.
Since at least the 2008 recession that really hasn't been the case, but the culture hasn't caught up, or was slower to catch up.
and love by yourself
I know that's a typo, but making it easier to bring home hookups was, like, 80% of the reason for me.
Disregarding different societal norms, I find it interesting that some people don't have the intrinsic need to gtfo to a more personal space, be it either nice or shitty parents.
It's a disgrace - but only because the system is so messed up. I'm old enough to own my own house but my kids probably never will unless they live with me well into their 30s and save like crazy. My generation and those before me have screwed up the housing market.
I have to admit it's refreshing to hear from the haves acknowledging it was their and prior generations that fucked things up instead of accusing the younger generations of being lazy.
Love my family, would hate living with them - just because we are very different people.
Fully agree with you there. I can never fully relax around family and it'd probably be a nightmare living with them.
Must be an american skill issue
I think folks are missing a huge cultural point of moving out with roommates. It's culturally acceptable to move away from parents but live with like 3+ roommates starting with college / university and then well into establishing your career. I did this and most folks I know did this in Canada. Honestly some of the greatest times of my life. I and my roommates moved out at 18 to do this and I wouldnt have done it any other way. So many great independence skills came up during that time and just a great sense of freedom (even with working and school being a huge part of everything)
Is it considered a bad thing? I haven't seen memes or any modern shows joke about it
Yes ambitious young people view it as bad, and adults view it as bad in the U.S. Young person's (for lack of better term) usually wish for a life with freedoms. Older adults look it as bad parenting to have a kid who hasn't moved on to "adulthood" which includes independence in our culture. I see it all the time. My parents (Born in 61) hate on all parents and adults who still live with their parents.
Also with media making extremists out of so many people it is more unlikely (not impossible) to find parents and kids that agree on much with viewpoints which can cause a lot of termoil between families.
That's really interesting and quite unfortunate at the same time.
I'm from the UK and have many friends still living with parents at 30, I don't judge them for it until they say they start wanting kids. Imo you need a house and stability to grow into when bringing up children because it's their life not yours you need to consider.
However I've asked them if they get teased or pressured to move out by anyone at work or within their circle and they all say no.
I can see how old 90s and 00s TV sitcoms target people "living in their moms basement" as losers but if you're out in the real world and are able to differentiate badly aged media I think the situation on my side of the pond is absolutely fine.
Property is just as expensive over here and young adults need to save for longer. I didn't move out until mid 20s, my boomer parents had a 4 bed house so I had my own bathroom and everything. It's not considered wrong in eastern culture so there was no problem staying.
In fact I think I left one year too early lol
Sounds like common Americans lack education of the above and bully others directly, which is toxic. Ouch.
Because the last gen of parents struggle to let their kids grow up
How old are you?
Thirstin Howl - Still Living with My Moms
Scrolled through the thread long enough and I still only see people blaming stigma and capitalism but... Those are just the end effects.
It's plain toxic masculinity:
Except it doesn't just apply to men.
I totally agree, though I wrote this in the context of OPs post specifically saying (emphasis mine):
I have seen in many US shows where they portray guys who are living with parents as losers, or there are jokes or memes about it, I never get it.
Depends on how old you are. There is nothing wrong with living with your parents till your early 20s.
But if you're still living with them when you're going on 40, something has probably gone wrong for you.
could you maybe explain why instead of only reinforcing the stereotype? I'd be really curious to know what happens to you between your early 20s and your late 30s
I'd be really curious to know what happens to you between your early 20s and your late 30s
As some people said in this thread, it's hard to get a job that pays well out of college. You're supposed to be using the help of living at home to work towards getting an actual career so that you can afford to move out by/around 30. If you are in a difficult financial situation in your 20s and you instead spend them spending your money freely and frivolously without bettering yourself, you'd be rightfully seen as "lazy".
I graduated with a degree that didn't work out in the path I originally saw for myself. I moved back in with my parents at age 22, and spent my 20s:
I would not have had been able to do the 2nd and 3rd things unless I was living at home, because I'd be putting all my small pay towards rent and living expenses, and also probably be too tired to learn a new career as 1 entry level job is not enough and I'd probably be working more hours or a 2nd job to make ends meet. At the same time, if I was not doing those things while at home, I'm wasting an opportunity and my privileged position (not everyone can move back), and would see myself as lazy. In my 30s, I have an actual career and had put myself in a good financial situation thanks to that opportunity of being able to move back in.
I’d be really curious to know what happens to you between your early 20s and your late 30s
You're supposed to grow up and become independent.