Texas Governor Greg Abbott declares that Texas law supercedes Federal authority and hints at secession
Greg Abbott writes that the Federal government violated the Constitution by failing to protect the states from an "invasion" of immigrants.
If Trump loses the 2024 election because Texas temporarily secedes, taking its 38 Republican electoral votes with it, I might die from the schadenfreude.
1.Just give Texas back to Mexico.
2.Reverse UNO
3.White Republicans are now the immigrants on the wrong side of the border
4.Enjoy some queso
Americans who move to other countries always call themselves expats since immigrants are “those other people”.
All the morons screaming about colonization aboard are already packing their bags to leave Texas right? RIGHT? California too, if they're anything but sjw Jack offs.
the nihilist in me really wants to see texas attempt this.
confederates === domestic terrorists. lets act accordingly.
the nihilist in me really wants to see texas attempt this.
Just to get rid of Abbot and Cruz it would be worth it.
I doubt this whole display is anything more than a distraction from the impending elections but I'm going to keep saying it anyway:
Please remember there are sane, reasonable, nonconservative people living here without a good way out. We're not the enemy.
Might not be domestic for long. Plus I hear they've got oil! Not sure they've thought this through.
Not just confederates, it's the current MAGA "Republican" party. CPAC, Dallas, TX, Aug. 4-7, 2022:
The persecution fetish is bigger in Texas.
Can we just acknowledge that this is unhinged? Biden has the strongest border policies ever implemented by a Democrat. This just shows that there is no compromise possible with these traitors. They will never admit you made a step in their direction, only demand more and more and more until you're just doing their bidding.
This is truly the way of extremists and terrorists, they demand the country be run to their preferences, democratic systems be damned.
It really is sad to see so many Americans captivated by misinformation that they've convinced themselves is real. Abandoning science, reason, discussion, compromise, even tolerance. I try to keep my bloodthirst in check but after years upon years of them growing like a cancer, forming cult-like militia, becoming full blown domestic terrorists threatening high treason, it can't be tolerated any further. It was cute when it was just posturing, symbolizing they were unhappy with the system at large and wanted to fuck with it a little.
Now it's spiraled out of control. Now the punishment for treason should be felt. Either mercifully with the arrest of Abbott or vengefully with the GOP Texans being buried under the new courthouse.
A more cynical person might suggest they are doing this BECAUSE of that. Biden can't run on the numbers if Texas keeps blocking action.
That's not cynical, they've come right out and said this is what they're doing. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4429211-romney-trump-border-bill-biden/
Is there somewhere I can read about Biden's border policy compared to other Democrats? This is definitely something I'm totally uninformed about and I'd like to read up a bit, if you know of a good rundown.
Not really a rundown. Just years of paying attention. The basic thing is they aren't recognizing the right to declare asylum after entering the country anymore. You have to wait in your home country or Mexico until your paperwork is processed. Of course that's ridiculous considering how the cartels prey on the refugees and asking someone to stay in the country they are seeking asylum from.
Pra ba jeebus
I have yet to see this mentioned in any of these threads, at least the ones that I have read. If Texas secedes or tries to, Republicans lose 38 seats in the House of Representatives and two Senate seats. This give the House to Democrats for the foreseeable future and Democrats an easier path to passing bills in the Senate. Not that Texas, Abbott, cares.
not to mention then they'll be a country with oil within peacekeepin' distance of the USA
Can anyone tell me how much of Texas' oil production is offshore? Because the US would claim all of that on day one.
We're going to have invade every 20 years to get rid of some horrible dictator or another.
if the secede their electoral votes shouldn't count until congress passes a bill readmitting them. it's only fair
I mean it goes without saying that you aren’t arguing this, but they will never secede. This is fodder for local politicking
cut off all federal funding
let then secede
invade and retake them as a territory with no federal voting rights
make dc and puerto rico states
republicans never win again
Please stop I can only get so erect
Naw, split up the state into 4 states, with Houston, Austin, Dallas and San Antonio as capitals. Cut state lines and populations up to ensure that as the main city votes so goes the state.
That'd be 8 democratic senators.
Add DC, PR, American Virgin Islands American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands and that's potentially another 12.
Regardless of politics the territories, and DC, should have statehood and equal rights and representation as the rest of us or they should have independence. It's part of our national identity. No more colonialism or secondclass sub citizens.
Brexit was so successful, it's now time for Texit!
Stop threatening the rest of us with a good time
These dumb fucks can't go a single winter or summer without their power grids going down and then begging for free money and help but they somehow thing they can be their own country? Fuck it, let em try and then they will find out that the Mexican cartels don't fuck around.
These jackanapes get to yammering about secession every few years but haven't actually done anything about it for decades. It's all performative.
This Texan checked into it, and unfortunately we have no procedure for recalling our treasonous governor. At a minimum, he should be held in contempt of court and jailed. I would like to see a treason indictment.
just break the elevator in the state house
there is- at the federal level some vague means of getting "congress" to do it. Victor Berger was removed by a vote of the full house (WI rep that was convicted improperly of espionage. he was part of the socialist party in 1919.) He was elected as a representative to the house (and the specific side of congress has jurisdiction over itself).
There's nothing saying the senate, for example, couldn't weigh in, declare him unfit and have him removed from his position. I have no idea how that would shake out... but given his announcement or declaration or whatever that was, that's basically invalidating the US constitution... that is definitely insurrection against the US. The 14th amendment section 5 gives authority to soley Congress to enforce 14th's section 3 (you know the insurrection clause).
I would expect that if the house of senate voted to remove him... then the shitheads in SCOTUS would say that it has to be unanimous with the house of reps. but it would be something more than what's currently being done- which is nothing.
I don't believe the federal legislative can remove the executive of a federated state.
He can be arrested and tried though.
The 14th Amendment's 3rd clause is self executing, so arguably he's just disqualified himself from office.
Unfortunately for us, people kept voting him into office even after he called the Texas guard to watch the US army with the Jade Helm panic that Russia started. Idk if they will ever vote him out
His last election was the most competitive of his career.
The public in general leans pro-choice, so Republicans are absolutely losing support with their insane anti-abortion policies even if it isn’t obvious yet.
He’s also been in national headlines a lot lately for his extremism. He has always been horrible, but he has never been so visible for it.
Next election, he will be hanging on by voter suppression, a wish, and a prayer.
What worries me though is why he’s gone off the deep end already if he still believes he needs to get re-elected…
The only issue I have with secession talk is there are lots of Texas citizens who aren't the problem. Every red state has people with common sense, they just don't have the ability at the moment to shut up the idiots. Plus secession at this point is ludicrous, leaving with your toys isn't how you fix problems. Oh wait, it's Republicans, they don't ever have solutions anymore anyway it's all a political game.
The pro-seccession crowd here isn't even the majority of Republicans. They brought a petition to out a measure on the primary ballot and the state GOP said no. Then the state Supreme Court declined to intervene.
As a city Texan who lives in one of the most military-friendly and full cities in the state, I say I’d like to see you try greggy.
I don’t think Republican leadership is going to like losing 40 electoral votes.
GM: "Well, you can certainly try."
"Roll for initiative."
The DM watching Texas lose power, unable to pay for its own army, pay for its own healthcare, pay for food with its ports blockaded unable to secure basic goods from both Mexico and the US, etc.
"You guys are under prepared and over fucked."
I got a perfect “1” - that means I go first, right?
suddenly reconsidering opening the chest I was promised had 10 million gold in it
I promise, it's not a mimic!
Are you sure you want to do that? -The GM
Is a 3 in intimidation good?
How do 1%ers hear this and not immediately pull campaign funding, what would a civil war do to the US economy. When a nation with the most guns in the world has people starving what do they think is gonna happen. I guess they are counting on being kings in the aftermath or that Jesus will come back or something.
See, your problem is you assume the 1% are intelligent. They are not. The attribute they have the most of is greed. Greed can blind even the intelligent, and most of them aren't even playing with a full deck.
The 1% use political theater to distract people from the fact that half of Americans can't afford rent.
This is exactly what they want.
Here's the thing: they've got a "self-sufficient" bunker, private military contractors, and have done some martial arts training. So in their mind all they have to do to come out on top in a collapse of society is hide in the bunker surrounded by armed guards and judo chop any guard who tries to take over.
They also know that our current way of society is not sustainable with them hoarding the wealth. So they believe collapse is inevitable.
So why not accelerate the process whilst they're still young and can fool themselves into believing they can survive a collapse of society with all their resources stashed away.
It’s because they know it’s political theater. Bullshit posturing. Virtue signaling. As long as it gets the red state voters worked up so they’re not paying attention to actual issues, that’s what counts.
Texas is not going to secdee.
They just leave the country, invest in defense stocks, and make a bunch of cash
Because it’s theater. It’s part of the tongue in cheek game they play where the Republican leadership all basically play the part of the fourteen year old male imagination. They’re gonna beat up the bully, kiss the cheerleader, and win the football game. Everyone knows it’s fantasy but it’s comforting fantasy that makes them feel big, and they want that. They expect it.
Trump is fascinating because he DID those things. He hurt the right people to satisfy a growing chunk of the core GOP base that have Poe’s Law’d so hard they actually take the fantasy seriously. If he said he’d let Texas secede I’d honestly believe he’s stupid and/or nihilistic enough to do it
Do it, you chicken shit piss baby
Obviously he'll flip into "federal authority is absolute" against states like California if a Republican (read: Trump) is president.
No need to wait, look at what they did for the article 14 stuff. They don’t give a fuck about anything unless it somehow directly impacts them, states rights included
The only legitimate authority is the party I'm a member of.
So what about Texas invading other states by bussing migrants there?
Secure the boarder!!!!
Yeah, lock up Kelly Slater!
if they secede we'll have to update all the flags. what a pain. maybe we could just add in puerto rico really quick
Would rather have Puerto Rico anyway. Texas will return to being Mexico pretty swiftly and that's probably better for everyone.
Mexico won't want them. My bets are they break into even more countries, some of which get incorporated into the US and Mexico. Then the remains become a lawless region because they don't have the money to fight the cartels. So we get a military occupation on our southern border. Nobody comes away happy but the MIC.
Which given the arc of history in the post WW2 period is, I believe, the best indicator of how things will go.
Mexico already has enough oil
Abbott is unfit to hold office.
If it means Ted Cruz will be forced to fuck off, don’t keep us waiting.
God damn we can only hope
This walking corpse needs to be slapped back to reality. Secession talk should get you fucked into the ground.
Traitor scum.
This
walkingrolling 🧑🦽 corpse...
Abbott is so full of shit. Texas isn’t succeeding from anything.
Texas is neither succeeding nor seceding
Aren't you for the freedom of self-determination?
If Texas has complete control and final authority over their majority portion of the southern border, shouldn't they be the ones are responsible for spending the resources for securing it as well as being accountable for the humanitarian disaster?
The Republicans want it both ways: They want to blame the President and federal government for the situation at the border (but only when it's the Democrats in office and never when they are, of course), and at the exact same time they want to claim total authority over border policy on the state level. On top of that, they love to pull political stunts wrt the border every election year, but when it comes to actually passing an immigration bill, they'll tank it because Trump doesn't want to let Biden have yet another win.
Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Fucking pick one you disingenuous scumbag clowns.
He is wrong. But also imagine what that looks like. You think people in the UK regret brexit? Hahaha I hope Texas can grow all their own food.
Or don't have any natural disasters they aren't prepared for.
That's your concern? We have farmland coming out our ass. Food isn't going to be the problem.
While Texas has a hell of a lot of natural resources, trying to break away from the entire commerce cycle and keep growing food ends up getting a bit tricky.
I mean hell you guys can't even produce your own electricity effectively enough to keep people from freezing to death. Even fixing that problem without local suppliers and engineers ends up being pretty damn expensive.
It'll start well enough trying to turn resources from outside the state to local sources. A lot of local small and medium industry will probably be bolstered. But then what happens when the US stops allowing import of cattle. You've got plenty of food, food isn't your problem anymore, but now all those giant farms don't have anybody to sell their goods to anymore. They're going to go from feeding 50 states to trying to feed one state that already has all they want of that product. You can't just f*** with supply and demand like that your economy will s*** itself. You'll be trying to sell oil and gas to Mexico. Your ports will just be packed with tankers trying to find somebody that'll buy your oil, so you can trade for stuff you really need. You won't even be able to fill the tankers fast enough to keep that section of the economy flowing like it is now.
When brexit did it they just got a taste of the pain because all of their trade routes and agreements More or less remained in place just today non-preferential price.
Credit due, you've got a better chance of making it work then just about any other state, but y'all go mad Max before you got it sorted.
Sure, here's why that doesn't make any sense. Texas's main crops are: Cotton, Corn, Sorghum, Oats, Wheat, Hay, Peanutes, Rice, Roots, Bulbs, Fruiting Veggies, Melons, Citrus, and Herbs\spices. That may seem like a diverse amount of food, but you don't have enough to feed everyone in your state and you will grow very tired of the same old shit without import\export trade.
Hmmm... 🤔
"states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution."
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/full-text
Article 4, Section 4:
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."
I don't see a) anything there that defines "invasion" or b) grants the states the power to act if the United States chooses not to.
Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3:
"Section 10: Powers Denied to the States
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
Again, "invaded".
It's pretty clear from section 10, since it's also speaking of troops, ships of war, and engaging in war that it means MILITARY invasion, not an influx of citizen refugees.
Dictionaries at the time back up that reading:
Rich of them to quote the U.S. Constitution when they're trying to leave - which would mean that they don't recognize the U.S. Constitution for being a foreign entity.
It's in the Constitution! Democrats can never be the government of any state, only Republicans can create a Republican form or government.
Checkmate liberals!
Someone should tell these guys it's not 1861 anymore. They might find themselves on the business end of a hellfire missile if they keep running their yaps with impunity or take actionable steps towards actually seceding. Also known in modern vernacular as "Fuck around and find out".
"The dildo of consequence rarely arrives lubed"
That's silly talk. I say we deny their citizens all American benefits instead. VA, SS, Medicare, all of it. Only if they seceed.
Why should we tell them again?
No, no... Let them leave. #Texit
For a party that claims to love and respect the US Constitution, being filled to gills with "constitutional orginalists," I don't think any Republican has ever actually read the document. If they had even glanced over it, they would have looked at Article 6, Paragraph 2 also known as the "Federal Supremacy Clause." It's meaning is that law at the Federal level supercedes State laws and even state constitutions. The "Founding Fathers" intended for the Federal government to hold supremacy over the state governments... now it isn't written in plain English, but it is plain enough. Further, the end of our Civil War the court case Texas v White made it plain as day legally that no State may leave the union. Again, the party of "law and order" comes in clutch with that misunderstanding of what those words mean.
All that being said, succession isn't actually that popular (even in Texas). There would likely be a mass revolt against it in any state attempting it. Further, even a play at attempting it would be a political death sentence (as well as, perhaps, a literal one). Any insurrection against the federal government, even by a collection of contiguous states, would face a similar challenge the capitalists/monarchists (or Whites) of the Russian Civil War faced. The major population centers wouldn't recognize the authority of those in revolt and all they'd be left with would be the hinterlands and rural towns. Which is not a great position to be in strategically (again, see: the outcome of the Russian Civil War).
This is all not to mention, while States have their own National Guards, the insurrectionists would have to convince those troops to fire on troops who are wearing the same uniform. You'd have to convince their officers to break their oath to uphold both US law and face a possible death sentence if captured. I don't know Abbott's relationship with his National Guardsmen, but I highly doubt many officers will go in with him in this piece of political theater.
For a party that claims to love and respect the US Constitution, (...) I don't think any Republican has ever actually read the document.
They just don't care - they're self-serving liars and grifters, and they know it. It's very simple.
I look forward to the possibility they'll fuck around and find out, but they'll likely just bully concessions out of Biden, who will be too afraid of being uncivil or disturbing the status quo to take action to uphold the rule of law and defend the constitution.
I don't fucking get this. Abbot literally ships illegal immigrants by the bus load into the country free of charge, how is he not a fundamental cog in the illegal immigration machine?
They've basically finally got around to calling the bluff. No one's going to do anything.
We had a coup attempt last year and people are getting slapped on the wrist.
The government's not going to do anything about anything until there's a full-on civil war.
If that.
The U.S. government is incapable and unwilling to protect its own people, therefore it is illegitimate. And it has been for a very long time.
One star states gonna one star. Fucking shit hole.
Biden should call them the fuck out. Immediately withdraw all federal funding, including anything paid for by the government like power plants and highways. Let them suffer until they're willing to play nice with the rest of us.
That would be political suicide and motivate the red states against him for the election. He can point out that he's wrong because of those in a funny way. But actually doing something about it would be detrimental to his election.
Like red states aren't already motivated against him? That's at least 90% of the reason Abbott is even doing this. Give old Joe a no win situation to deal with and take the focus off their abhorrent abortion and other human rights stances. Like, I know this involves drowning children with razor wire but he gets to control the narrative and move the focus off that.
oh and all of those sweet military bases that basically prop up that shithole
The great Texas economy won't fair to well when trade tariffs kick in and they stop benefiting from all the trade deals the US has.
Imagine the reaction on day one when Biden nationalize all assets of Texas based companies that aren't within the borders. And day two when Biden decrees that us banks can no longer accept funds or distribute funds to Texas based entities. They'll have to create their own currency and deal with conversions that will not be favorable.
In fact leaving the US is leaving NAFTA so it doesn't even require new tariffs they would immediately throw up trade barriers with their two (or three if you count the US) largest trade partners. Their economy would tank immediately.
biden should call the bluff and ask the house and senate to release texas from the union under the condition it compensates the US for any federal land and supplies.
Not even. We take what’s ours, they can keep the land and what infrastructure is left. All federal funds are frozen and all US based assets for Texans are frozen until diplomatic relations are formally established and financial treaties are in place. All power, pipelines and rail are blocked/shut off at the border. All passports in Texas names are null, along with all no cost governmental passports. Military Checkpoints at all major roads in and out of Texas with nobody allowed in or out without a valid US passport. All airport and federal airport staff are reassigned or permitted to resign with negative SF50 rehire status. All airspace on the US side is closed to any transit.
Most of this can be accomplished in a week or two with the military securing the border operations (as is appropriate). It would be fair to allow, say, a month grace period for anyone who wants to stay in the US to relocate. After they are free to leave by the gulf or, if Mexico decides to honor the defunct passports.
I don't think we give these military installations up.
Can I apply for refugee status and move to a state not run by this sociopath?
No. Please. Don't. Go.
Oh well.
So all federal money cut off.
But wait, doesn't Texas pay more than they received?
Yes, but let's really look at this. Military and veterans don't get paid. Oil confiscated by the Navy stationed on both the East and West coast. Any company with a federal account closes down bc Texas doesn't pay the same. Massive border to protect against a reunification force.
I think they change their mind in a split second.
They did pay into the federal system more than they took at one time, but it hasn't been like that for a long time now. They couldn't handle having federal funding cut off.
No one could. We're solidly in deficit spending now.
Texas is a drag on our society. I say say cut em loose.
Hypothetical from a non American. Let's say Texas DOES secede. What happens to the citizenship of the Americans in Texas? Do they lose it? Do they have to leave Texas in X days to keep it? Can it even be revoked? Should it?
If they kept it, would they need to still declare their taxes, as US citizens must pay tax on international income?
They would become a territory, like Puerto Rico. They would still have citizenship and the benefits of citizenship, such as they would still have taxes. But would not vote in presidential elections, and their representatives would get no vote.
It is the best of all worlds. /$
Taxation without representation you say?
You mean their politicians can just blame everything on the federal government and pretend they took their voting rights away? Sounds like a dream for them.
I'm not like a US civil war scholar or anything, but there's at least a glimmer of precedence to be found there with what happened to average folk living in the Confederate States when those states seceded. Babies born in the Confederacy were considered US citizens because the US (the Union) never recognized the Confederacy as independent and legally considered it US territory still. As for adults, it was similar... The US treated them as if they had never lost US citizenship and either punished or pardoned people for treason and war related crimes after the war. So I guess the answer would depend on whether Texas wins or loses the inevitable war that the US would fight to keep Texas from seceding/declaring independence in the first place.
About inevitable war - I heard some mentions of Texas' conditions of entering the union being different, since it, eh, became part of the US at a different point of history. And thus that in case of Texas specifically secession would still be their right.
Have you heard of such a thing?
Anyway would be awfully stupid to see a war over this.
It would make more sense for Texas to be like Christiania in Copenhagen for some time in case of such a weird event - no recognition, but also no war and no borders.
The other replies to you are wrong. Texas can't secede. Unlike the EU, joining the United States is one-way. No matter what laws the Texas government passes, or claims to be true, from the perspective of the US gov't they cannot leave the union (or revoke US citizenship from their residents).
If you're looking for precedence, see the US civil war which settled the matter pretty decisively.
This guy, these people, are so thick headed.
The court ruled that the border patrol officers have the constitutional authority to move some razor wire in some areas (this case mentions 2.5 miles) because it's in their way of apprehending people trying to get over the boarder - actually, people who have already set foot on US soil.
This is going to turn into some big thing because Abbot would rather let immigrants die in the river than permit border patrol to capture them.
There's way too many people in here that either don't know the difference between succession and secession, or don't know how to spell, or just were too lazy to look at what they were typing or what was being autocorrected.
Since smartphones became prevalent there has been open contempt and hostility for the idea that correct spelling and grammar are important for comprehensible communication.
Too many people don't care to learn anything anymore because it makes them feel stupid when it's pointed out that they didn't just plop out of their mothers with all the necessary knowledge to interact with others and navigate the world around them.
It'd be funny if someone built a Lemmy extension to allow others to grade people's posts based on spelling and grammar.
Cool, let’s pull back their federal funding and see how things go
Texas is one of the few red states that contributes more to federal funding than they get out of it. Cutting it just gives them the excuse to cut more social programs that are tried to federal funding.
Can the people of Texas recall their governor? Has to be a lot of them unhappy with this clown.
Again? Texas does this almost every election cycle and they aren't dumb enough to try it. Or maybe they are. That'd be a show.
As a born and raised Texan, I’ve been seeing “Secede” bumper stickers for decades now. However, it’s the first time that I remember the governor saying it. So it is still notable, even if it’s old rhetoric.
I'm Canadian and this is like Quebec for us. None of us take them seriously, they do this so often. They're also land locked and would die without the rest of the country. I for one would love it if French Canada stopped having so much political pull over the rest of the country.
Old guy who is only getting older wants to dictate so that he has some sort of legacy.
Also his wiener doesn't work correctly (...nor do any of his lower extremities), and this makes him very cranky. Bless his heart. Let him pretend to govern, what's the worst that could happen...
I want to say it'll never happen, but they may not be so good at paying attention to prevailing trends. If Texit happens I'll be watching with a big bowl of popcorn.
Willy Wonka: Stop. Don't. Come back.
How's Trump's electoral math work out without Texas in the union?
Do it. Go on.
Go for it, Abbott. Let's see your beloved Texas Rangers go up against satellite-guided drone bombers.
It's all fun and games until you are shredded by cluster bombs.
Or a Raytheon knife missile thingy
Let them go and remove their risk from the power grid.
I believe Texas has its own power grid. Also, still, let them go.
No. Fuck that. They want to leave the Union? FUCKING LEAVE TEXAS. Texas, the land belongs to us.
Tx threatens secession every other day. why does he wear boots. js
They know federal law supercedes state law, right?
the argument is that because they're being "invaded" and that the federal government isn't doing anything to protect them from that "invasion"... it's a "breach of contract" that then invalidates everything else.
Which is a dissenting opinion by a lone justice, and not what was the actual ruling in that precedent; and there's no legal or technical definition that defines migrant refugees showing up seeking asylum as an invasion.
Dog whistle to his supporters, that's all.
If they actually tried anything they'd be snuffed out pretty fast.