New data shows No Kings was one of the largest days of protest in US history
New data shows No Kings was one of the largest days of protest in US history
I hate reading the comments of all the capitulators here, carrying water for the regime by trying to discourage people with this constant drumbeat that protests are useless and ineffective. Bullshit. Are you magats? We've seen examples in history where protests and the movements they enabled have brought down those in power.
Protests are necessary but not sufficient in themselves. They're how resistance starts and builds, not how it ends. Did you ever think it might take time to form the momentum to get to a critical mass, especially after decades of complacency? Real momentum and effective action was never going to happen immediately or in just weeks, or even in less than eight months which is where we are now. There are already people grouping and doing things other than protests (iykyk) and will be more, made possible by the support and cover that large numbers participating provide.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities. Blue cities. There's one reason for that--they want to intimidate people from turning out and use force to stop those who do. trump keeps saying so and plans are being implemented.
Point is, you may think it's all useless and ineffective, but the regime obviously doesn't. Why do you want to help them? If you think it's hopeless, fine--stay home and doom scroll, but stop trying to dissuade others.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities.
Which is important. Make them want to cover every city in America. The problem for them is that they can't. There aren't enough regular troops, National Guard, and ICE agents put together to make it work. They'll be spread too thin.
That really highlights the importance of protests. If it was just New York it would fail. If it was just Chicago it would fail. If it were just LA it would fail. If we signal that we're all going to work together on this, they can't possibly do it.
I wish I could sticky this.
I agree. The negativity in this forum has utility beyond providing a stupid counterpoint. It also saturates attention and screenspace in long threads of people arguing nonsense. The goal is disruption, and in a space far from corporate control like Reddit, yet somewhat under-moderated, it's alarmingly effective. At worst, there's an acutual playbook for this exact thing.
Trump could get overthrown tomorrow and Lemmy Europeans would find a way to removed about it
Is it Europeans? I thought the US left is way more puritanical than us
Damn those Europeans, always removed about Trump being overthrown. Well, he isn't overthrown actually, instead he has more and more power by the day and Americans don't do anything effective about it. And those pesky Europeans keep removed about things that happening instead of being happy about imaginary things that aren't happening.
They think that going out and shooting Republicans will help. Because of course the ones with control over the military will be easily brought down by randos with guns.
Depends on the ones you are shooting. If you kill the 80 year old Republican who has barely any cash? No it won't do shit. If you snipe Charlie Kirk or a senator, then yeah cause it breaks the illusion of their immunity.
Violence is a tool and much like any tool you need to know how to use it. Taking out the propaganda welps and the money movers would be a good first step. It's also a lot harder to work against if done with variable tactics since asymmetrical warfare is a removed to work against.
We will not vote our way out of this
Nope. That option disappeared on November 5, 2024.
You cannot allow fascists to have total control of a government and then expect to vote your way back to normality.
Lots of people are going to have to die to end this. And we'll probably go through a prolonged period of a decline of our quality of life before that happens. Then a prolonged period of recovery. And it could have easily been avoided if Americans had pulled their heads out of their asses and rubbed a couple brain cells together.
Buckle up kids.
Agreed, but this has been brewing for over 18 years. Today's MAGA were yesteryear's Tea Party members. They liked to wear funny "patriotic" hats and discuss conspiracy theory level politics. Easily guided and basically brainless, if you hold up a picture of a liberal they would run at it screaming profanities like some weird carrot on a stick. They ALMOST destroyed the Republican party with that craziness ... but the party just steered into it and now rides the wave.
It disappeared before 2024.
There has been a massive, multi-pronged assault on just our rights and our values, but our very attention-spans and cognitive capabilities to resist the corporate takeover.
Do ya'll really think that they're collecting your personal data to sell you targeted products you want?
They want to know what everyone's limits are, they want to know how much you pay attention, they want to know how much discomfort you will endure before you get mad, they want to know what placates you, they want to know what makes you feel good and comfortable so they can distill whatever that is and turn it into concentrated slop to keep you in your chair.
This isn't conspiracy, this is the same thing that's been to other countries by dictators and oligarchs in the past, usually with things like alcohol or drugs, but the modern world in America is much more complicated so they need a lot of people to click "agree" so they can find out what your weaknesses really are.
A lot of people's limits are pretty much already reached. Some of us are old, tired, and just not that interested in keeping the greed machine running.
Your average Joe may not grab a rifle and run at the illegal National Guards that have been deployed or do a Luigi... but if those average Joe's happen to see someone else do somwthing like that it will be good odds that they won't remember what the person looked like or which way they ran after they did it.
Traitors and child fuckers.
child rapists. FIFY
1 and 2 completely agree, but 3 is quitter talk. We don't need any of that.
Who said anything about quitting?
The last three elections had the highest voter turnout in recorded American history. This isn't a voting problem anymore, because our voting system, our very democratic process, has been compromised with social manipulation and leveraged against us.
We will not rush the polls and fix this.
We don't necessarily need to do an armed insurrection to fix this, but we have to get a LOT more active and a LOT more involved in our local leadership and representation, we have to argue a LOT more with our shitty uncle who gets all his news from Newsmax and nobody ever pushes back on him. We have to fight ICE in the streets and post it to social media and make resistance cool. We have to stop buying shit. Not a dumbass protest against a single company or product, just start saving your damn money and stop wasting it on games and booze and drugs. Seriously, take the money OUT of their hands. Start getting healthy, active and smart.
It will take generations to fix this, but it starts now with you getting up and walking somewhere and telling a total stranger "I can't believe how much we pay in taxes and they couldn't lower the price of groceries!" No wokescolding, no lectures, just do everything you can to make people mad at the actual enemy, the corporations and the wealthy.
edit: to the three people triggered by the idea that we can't get out of this just by voting and telling people their shirts are problematic, you are the problem. You are ammunition for the orcs and monsters who have sabotaged us all. Get your priorities in order. Get off discord and get away from your polycule of shut-ins and ass-kissing introverts and get fucking busy. Phone-bank, march, throw a sandwich at an ICE agent, just stop thinking you can intellectualize your way out of this. Nobody is coming. This is on YOU.
Pick up a history book.
You don't vote fascists out.
It's not quitter talk. It is opening a discussion for a workaround.
the media complex has gotten more adept at burying these things. biggest protest in US history isn't going to be what brings change anymore
How you know it's effective
And we’re all reaping the benefits of it, right? RIGHT???
Non-violent protest only works against those who have a conscience, with is NOT MAGAts.
I humbly disagree. Protests can have a massive economic impact if they reach critical mass. Acts of violence also need a critical mass, but convincing people to protest is far easier than convincing them to commit acts of violence.
Don’t go to work, block all traffic, don’t pay taxes, stop spending, attack all opposition. With enough participation, we can crash the economy in a single day and regain control within a week. Getting people to do what is necessary en masse is the hard part. Things will have to get worse before we get there.
I do realize your username is literally GuyFawkes. Nevertheless, when somebody is doing wrong, the first approach should be to use reason and empathy as a point of argument. If that fails, then work to starve the oppressor of what they seek to exploit until they find that pursuit to be no longer in their interests. If that fails, then use whatever means necessary to ensure oppression ends and human rights that were once willingly suppressed instead become guaranteed.
Ok but step 1 has been thoroughly explored and this administration didn't delay their agenda for a second. Step 2 requires massive legal reform tandem with a functional judiciary, given that profit, capital, and power consolidation are what they seek. Unfortunately they're winning that battle as the judiciary and legal system are only degrading despite public outcry.
Did you go? Did you talk to anyone when you were there? Have you spoken with them since? If your answer is no, then you're just a loud bystander, who gives a fuck what you think. If all you know how to do is blow things up, then STFU and do it. Otherwise, try actually participating.
Non violent protests might take time but it will give good results. Even against violent oppressors.
Violent protests might feel direct, might show results immediately. But those might not be what you would like. Violence only begets violence.
watches protest footage "yeah that cop clearly shot the reporter from behind in self defense"
... Among a billion other examples
How do the violent ones go?
Let's find out
I heard there was one in Boston a while back. Started a war.
Well, the country was founded by one, so there's that.
Better than sitting around with a sign. Things actually happen.
Every country is founded on and survives via violence.
And nothing changed.
Fascists do not care about protests. Never have. Never will.
Fascists also don't allow fair elections if they can prevent them.
This is why it was so important for Americans to pull their heads out of their asses and make the obvious choice in November, instead of giving total control to fascists, making it WAY more likely for the next election to be fraudulent. Americans failed.
I'm going to let everyone reading this come to the obvious conclusion for what will end up needing to be done at this point.
I'm gonna guess violent revolution with a side of political cleansing?
With entrenched long-term resistance against the occupying force.
And I got chastised for insulting people who are intolerant, both to tankies and fascists. These bullies only understand and respond to force. Give them what they want and they will wish to have stopped.
peaceful protest is allowed by the constitution because it is ineffective
a riot is the language of the unheard
nobody in the world has ever won their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people oppressing them
One of the factors in whether a nonviolent resistance movement can succeed or not is whether any state forces end up shifting loyalty. "Appealing to the moral sense of the people oppressing them" may be false if you're just talking about whoever's at the top, but it absolutely is a factor for the day-to-day bureaucrats and security forces. Nonviolent campaigns are more likely to cause these sorts of changes (particularly when violent crackdowns against nonviolent resistance backfires).
Consider the success of the following movements:
There's several other cases of this happening over the past century, but I hope you get my point - nobody's appealing to the guy on the throne, they're appealing to all the other cogs in the machine.
And awesome to see how effective it was, glad we got the regimen to rethink its policies... Oh wait they doubled down.
What are you trying to accomplish here?
Everyone else: next one is September 1st.
https://www.fiftyfifty.one/
I think he’s correct in stating this administration won’t care if we protest or how large it is. What we hope happens is that the protests get more momentum amongst the politically inert. That momentum could build us up to a general strike which would have more influence once the capitalists bottom line gets impacted. Maybe. IDK. This all sucks.
I've been to all the 50501 protests in my area as a show of support, but I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'm just of the opinion that protests without action accomplish nothing. I am all into exercises, some real civil disobedience.
That's why there needs to be a clear line that people know exists between performative protest and concrete protest.
For anyone confused:
Performative protests, like the No Kings protests, serve to:
Concrete protests actually delay or stop the bad thing in question (e.g. blocking exits to ICE facilities)
A lot of people are hoping No Kings and similar protests will stop Trump. They won't. Of course they won't. But you can bet there's a lot more people donating to charities that either legally fight the administration's actions, or disrupt fascist policies on the ground, and a lot of people end up breaking off from these more liberal protests to later go to more concrete ones.
They're not worthless, but nothing beats direct, concrete action.
https://beautifultrouble.org/toolbox/tool/dont-expect-a-concrete-outcome-from-a-symbolic-action
So double down right back at them. What are you doing to stop what's happening? How else should we disrupt the regime's efforts? What do you recommend? Or do you think shitting on people's efforts is helpful somehow and will lead to a good outcome?
My mom was a huge speeder. She almost never went below 10 over the limit. Any time someone told her something along the lines of "The sign says 60, and you're going 80." she'd respond along the lines of "Well, good thing signs can't stop me then, huh?"
She'd always slow down if she thought she saw a cop, though.
I always think about that when people talk about protests as if they're the final step and not just the warning before a revolt. If you want self-centered people, like the ones running our government, to listen to your signs, you need them to fear what comes afterward if they don't.
History teaches us when protests and marches go unacknowledged riots and civil disobedience follow
It's good to see people politically animated, but these protests are largely 'controlled opposition'. It's an emergency venting valve where the people's frustration is channeled into a meaningless whistle.
The whole system is rotted. The democrats are not fighting for the small folk at all. If anything, a branch of the party is probably relieved that the republicans moved the overton window so far right.
Real change will require actual upheaval. You can't vote or protest your way out of this shit. Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board. There are some of us (working class) that are doing some unassuming maintenance in the orphan crushing machine. We won't get anywhere as long as people are operating their evil cog as normal. These protests won't do anything as long as it's being directed through the democrat pressure valve, as it is built in as a safety device in the orphan crushing machine.
Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board.
The only way we get there is by getting people out of their houses, away from controlled media, and aware that they're not alone. Without active, live, out-in-public protest, nobody will feel emboldened to take more radical action; they'll feel like a lone actor and probably not even start. Civil action en-masse comes first.
No one disputes the need to get people in the street. I agree with you there.
My cautionary tale is that turning to democrats or other mainstream ""resistance"" is a trap meant to deflate popular morale.
Im not alone? Thank goodness, my rent is coming up in 19 days and its the vast majority of my income. Its gonna be nice to have help paying it.
Everyone had a good time, then went home and nothing was changed.
Because we're still all under the delusion that we live in a civilized country with laws and fairness.
I think if people here had ever actually been in a fascist dictatorship before, those marches wouldn't have ended with everyone going home and sharing pictures on social media, it would have ended with capitol buildings set ablaze and an embarrassed and disheveled president being dragged out to a military tribunal or locked in a jail cell until trial.
You know, the thing that actually happens in places where this has happened before.
Eventually the fascist will infiltrate and incite violence so they can move in and kill.
And when they do, they need to be met by the same violence. It takes an awful lot to fight fascism, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but that is where USA is. Innocent people are going to die before it gets better.
While media attention is often focused on actors acquiescing to Trump’s demands, in the streets the popular protest movement continues to push back against the administration with notable persistence over time.
No lie, that's some good news.
Do not split.
But what is happening in Hong Kong is they come up with a slogan, which is translated as Do Not Split, which is, we know that some people are willing to be confrontational with riot police.
And when they are, that’s going to cost the state in terms of not only resources, but it’s going to cost the state in terms of political capital and support. And we know that there are some people who are not willing to do that. And we are going to abide by the protocol of Do Not Split, which means that we’re not going to criticize them openly, and they’re not going to criticize us openly.
If we’re the pacifists, we’re not going to have them criticize us for being sort of like, I don’t know, limpid or flaccid or not courageous or whatever. And we’re not going to criticize them for being more confrontational. And the thing is that the support is also tacit.
I think that peaceful and defiant protest are the anvil and hammer of social reform. Without each other, it is hard to change society into a more useful shape. These two wings are part of the same animal, and only work if they cooperate.
The Black Panthers were great, because they created social programs like feeding schoolchildren, while offering physical protection to the people under their care. We need Rainbow Panthers to help support the MLKs and Malcoms of our day.
It's important to note how the Black Panthers used "violence". There were very few incidents where they actually fired their guns, and when they did, they were arguably baited into doing it by the FBI and local cops.
Their best tactic was just hanging around with an AK on their back while a cop did their racial profiling thing to somebody else. They'd keep a book of laws handy and give the person advice from the sidelines. If they didn't have a gun, the cop would likely have found some pretext to arrest them and that'd be it. With a gun, the cop thinks twice and puts up with it. It wasn't there to actually be fired, but to make sure everyone behaved themselves.
This was so effective they changed California's open carry law to stop it. It's estimated that there were only around 100 Black Panthers at the time.
That is why I use the word "defiance". It is not violence, it is just a refusal to be bullied. We should put forth our own words to describe things, not let the media paint our movements in the light that they prefer.
Non-violent protests and their leaders are heralded by the establishment for a reason. They want non-violent protests because it’s an outlet that doesn’t actually affect their power. Martin Luther King gets credit for civil rights but really the rioting and violence on the periphery of that movement is what scared the powerful into bargaining. Symbols can be useful for rallying people, but in the end, it’s always direct action against the interest of the powerful that works. Large scale general strikes, riots, and political killings have always been the catalyst of major change.
Also, even if all that happened in the US, we still need some kind of leadership to pick up the pieces that will actually do something lasting to change things. The Democrats certainly aren’t that.
non violent protests only go so far, they would be scared if magats are also doing it, because how trigger finger they are. i think the strike that was truley effective, is the one they quashed, the railroad workers, the us is entirely dependant on this. Having these tiny protests, comparetively to what EUROPEans are doing.
Non violence brings people together so that violence can be enacted in a directed, efficient, and useful manner. So the least amount of incidental harm can be caused to those it's not directed at. And those who it is directed at can see and feel it in ways that are the most impactful and visible.
Cause even if violence is enacted. If it's not see far and wide, then it is little more than the tantrum of a child easily swept into their room and kept invisible from the public.
Largest days of protest so far
Good for the USA.
They had a moment, made funny signs, took some pictures, felt good about themselves.
Now Trump is rolling a military buildup in the country's capitol. We all know how this is going to end.
Good job. Pat yourselves on the back. You achieved fucking nothing.
If the protests were pointless, then why would trump bother to build up the military in cities? Seems to me that the military buildup is to discourage more protests, because they are not pointless.
Was he not going to do that anyway?
This is the stupidest take.
If anything, you're arguing that the protests accomplished none of the goals of the protestors, and only managed to escalate and incite a response that was a "warning" that worse will come if we don't keep it up.
So... it still seems fucking pointless to me? Like for fucks sake, we're all just waiting for him to die of natural causes and hope that the coalition falls apart, doing a whole bunch of pointless shit until then because we all know that violence is the only way to remove him at this point.
Naive fucks. The people who support him are just as committed to keeping power.
Glad someone else is saying it.
No Kings was a joke.
This take makes no sense. One of the largest days of protests in US history is a joke to you? It's a fundamental right of the citizens to protest and exercise this right.
Assuming one day of protest is the complete picture is what is comical. The Montgomery bus boycott started in 1955. The Civil Rights Act signed in 1965. One day is just part of the overall story of history. And having the largest protest be against Trump is part of our history now. It will take much more for that be a good story, but it is a good sign.
Sweet, keep up brave Americans!
great
now do it again, but really show that you mean business. in a way that the fascists will understand and be scared of
I went to an anti-genocide march that day and we were hoping to link up with the No Kings marchers and combine forces, but they went home early.
Good, and we will do it again and again!
and nothing will change. didn’t they say this about Occupy?
And yet it seemed to change nothing
Non-violence has it's place. But marches alone will not change anything. What the US needs is actual disruptions (i.e strikes and sabotages) as well as a credible radical flank
What US needs is some coherent political movement from anyone but monsters. All the disruptions in the world mean shit if there is no proper followup from a group of people who has their shit together. If literal magical aliens come tomorrow and organise a total proper strike that will change absolutely nothing because there is no group that can do demands and see that they are met. American left doesn't exist, and those small groups that exist are unified only and exclusively by their visceral hatred of liberals and smaller but still visceral disdain of other small groups of American left, and American liberals are stunned and terrified and can't do shit.
The protests can in theory let people form those needed connections, but doesn't seem to be doing it quickly enough.
is completely ineffective
name a better combo
501c organizations and feds
Needs to be done weekly
If it only had had any effect lmao
I think it's still Trump's conspiracy
is there even one protest for the release of the files, and the fact that MISS "kungfu coordinator" just had a work release program.
Protesting needs to evolve. Amazing turnout, but there needs to be a goal. Something like, let's cancel Amazon Prime. It's needs to be attainable. Boycott everything day is dumb. How about move your money to a credit union day?
Basically, people with clever signs marching on a predetermined, law enforcement lined, route until they want to open the roads up to traffic again, having gained zero ground aside from the personal fulfillment of being able to say I did my part to force change !
Meanwhile, nothing changed and gets worse every day.
Too bad it didn't work.
Awesome. And what did it do?
Oh yeah, nothing
Any protest will not do anything unless it becomes violent or if it doesn't stop until change has been enacted
Now if we could just repeat that success consistently.
Coordinate another date, and I'll participate in that one too.
Next one is Sept 1st.
https://www.fiftyfifty.one/
The fifty fifty one movement has been organizing protests usually about monthly and you can find them pretty easily on their site
Next widespread one I see planned is 9/1 for Labor Day.
Next time on a weekday, please.
Yeah preferably the first Tuesday of November. Maybe we can give that a try.