Any number of deaths is worth the fantasy, apparently

As an anarchist who is opposed to accelerationionism, it's frustrating how many people see it as an ideology that wants the state to immediately collapse.

I've had multiple arguments with liberals who say I'm not a real anarchist because I want pragmatic short-term progressive solutions like Medicare for all.

So yeah, I'm not wanting to condemn people to death for my ideology. Got me! (Not you, PugJesus)

I like to point people to Desert by Anonymous. It talks about how the plan should really be waiting for the State to recede as collapse progresses, and finding the spaces left behind where theres room for mutual aid based organization.
I like that. It turns your attention to what's in front of you, rather than waiting for the mythical Revolution we'll likely never see.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert
- Ever hear about love? I checked and turns out its for everyone, can you believe it?
I’d much rather build systems that provide for people so we can all watch the old world crumble from a comfy chair with plenty of snacks.
Who am I kidding, I don’t want a society; people are too troublesome.
I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand I am tired of the unnecessary suffering that is common in the richest country in the history of the Earth. A step in the right direction is better than nothing.
Or is it? Every time we increase the social safety net, our righteous anger subsides. We stop boycotting, protesting, striking, organizing, etc, because faith in the system is restored. And then we delay the necessary work of dismantling this system that is based on greed and exploitation. Inevitably, the oligarchs bide their time and then strip away rights and economic opportunity as soon as we stop paying attention.
- "Things getting worse will make people swap to MY side!" has a terrible track record.
Bookchin gang unite.
History teaches us that collapse and revolution rarely goes well for anyone.
The problem with wanting change without collapse is you have to figure out a way to live next to the millions and millions of people who didn't want the change or believed they didn't want it and will never change that belief.
The sad truth is for the kind of meaningful change any of us actually want, it would take enough collective trauma that it displaces the collective feelings of comfort and protection that allow people to have set-in beliefs at all.
This isn't saying I want widespread disaster at all, nobody deserves the suffering of disease, displacement and starvation. Unfortunately it's coming anyway, worse yet, it will only impact the people least deserving of this coming misery.
- I‘d say that @Zombiepirate@lemmy.worlds assessment is still the correct approach. If the system collapses anyways, the best thing to do is build local infrastructure through solidarity — which is best anarchist practice.
  In scandinavia anarchist groups started „preppa tilsammen“ (prepping together). It is not about hoarding guns, but community disaster relief.
Republicans and Democrats are both perfectly ok with state violence so long as it's against brown people, and preferably overseas. How many millions have died from lack of access to affordable health care and an almost non-existent social safety net in the US over the past century? But those aren't counted as ideological deaths for some reason? If you think that choosing either of the two main parties which both have an official policy of supporting foreign genocides is the lesser evil somehow, you've been duped. America has killed more people in wars in the past 20 years than nearly any other state, except perhaps for Russia. You're just bent out of shape because that state violence has been turned on the domestic population for once. Anything has got to be better than the status quo.
- This has nothing to do with anything that I said. Please try to stay on topic and keep your strawmen in your own fields.
  If you have to make up a bunch of bullshit about me to attack my position then you're not attacking my position.
- Anything has got to be better than the status quo.
  Spoken like a true child of privilege without any imagination - or understanding of conditions outside of your cozy status quo, ironically.
Similar
I always like to (admittedly, pedantically) point out that if anarchism is defined purely etymologically, all it means is "without hierarchy".
My personal interpretation is that it doesn't necessarily imply a lack of a state, democratic or representative government, or jurisprudence of established law; it only implies a lack of arbitrary and tiered authority or power.
Anarchists are incredibly caricatured in the popular mind. Curious though, how would you describe your pragmatic short-term progressive anarchism? Reformist Anarchism? Incrementalist?
- I don't know of a name for it, but it's fairly common in anarchistic thought as far as I can tell.
  Mutual aid is really the bedrock principle in anarchism, so setting up structures for it where we can is important even if they are imperfect.
- We already have a system where people who do not work benefit from those who do: it's called capitalism.
  You're worried that poor people might take advantage of the system when we have billionaires robbing the system blind; your priorities are all kinds of distorted.
- People with this mentality will spend $8,000 on background checks to make sure that one supposedly “undeserving” person doesn’t receive $100.
- Yes, let's make it affordable, so affordable everyone has it. It could even cost nothing!
- So many people sponging on our society, worthless eaters. Elderly, children, disabled people... we should have some kind of solution for them.
What you described, gradual change , is the literal definition of a conservative. So that means you’re a conservative.
- What you described, gradual change , is the literal definition of a conservative. So that means you’re a conservative.
  "Harm reduction is conservatism" is where we're at.
  Fuck's sake.
- There no polite way to put it, that's dumb, stupid, and very wrong take. Conservatives want to regress. We aren't in the Nixon times anymore where GOP will launch the EPA, nowadays conservatives are all about regression.
- umm. no. direction of change is crucial lol. some of us want capitalism to wither away as well as the state withering away. that is not conservatism lol.
- Congratulations on having the absolute dumbest take I've seen on Lemmy!
- Lmao no, that's not how this works.
- gradual change , is the literal definition of a conservative
  Lol no it's not.

Some ideologies want to be the boot pressing down on other’s necks and set the world on fire.

The rest aren’t so bad compared to that.

I like this comment.
As much as I crap on certain leftists, they still have the ideology "I wish people were slightly more kinder" and I would love their ideology to be accepted common sense rather than current one.
I would be just as happier if they were considered the new "centrists." And current right-wing considered far, far extreme.
- would love their ideology to be accepted common sense rather than current one
  The crazy thing is that the current economic system we utilize isn't considered nonsensical.
  I guess an economic system that requires infinite growth made a bit more sense during the age of discovery, when people were actively finding new continents to exploit. One would think that now we've definitively concluded we inhabit a closed system with a finite amount of natural resources, maybe just maybe we could evolve our economic system to reflect that?
- I can't tell if you crap on leftists who are too far left, or what I seem to be interpreting this as where you're crapping on american leftists that are actually not very left at all lol
  both are valid. and proper left is somewhere between them imo lol

They are all using public transport. Already a win.

My favorite part is this is exactly what the dems are doing with Trump, their startegy since the beginning was not to stop Trump and just wait for him to ruin the country enough that people vote for them again. They were saying as much earlier in the year too. Hilarious to see how they called all their detractors accelerationist before deciding to join in.

Stupidity knows no ideological borders, it would seem
- no? literally no leftists side with maga (except for maga communism, but that's fringe).
- I mean at least yall went from blaming the immigrants to blaming the socialists for the elections so that's still some kind of improvement.
Are you talking about pre election? Of course you can do something about Trump by not electing him. After Trump won, there’s nothing left to do except let him show everybody why it was a bad idea.
- After Trump won, there’s nothing left to do except let him show everybody why it was a bad idea.
  "Let the fascist burn down society unopposed" is not exactly a fucking recipe for anything except empowering fascism.
  People don't touch the hot stove and learn their fucking lesson. People touch the hot stove and blame the liberals for burning them.
  There is no effective opposition plan to fascism that involves ceding uncontested control to fascists

I don’t know what’s coming after this; better, worse, another version of the same.

I’m just tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

My money is on worse. The billionaire class has the means to take full control if society were to collapse and form it in their interest.
Even if a specific currency became meaningless, they'd still have wealth to transfer to whatever currency isn't.
- Oh and to follow on my last comment, I know there's going to be widespread bloodshed. I'm not blind to that; neither do I welcome it. I know it because gestures widely at human history.

If post-apocalyptic media has taught us anything, it's that the same systems will rise again, only now they are even more warped and fucked up than they were before the apocalypse.

The deaths are already happening under the current ideology and are endless until stopped.

Oh cool, that's totally a real and valid reason to embrace murdering as many people as possible.
- What are you even arguing about.
- OP just fyi but i think that somehow reducing the human population by 99.99%, leaving around a million or so, would not be the worst thing ever for hardcore environmentalism.
  So however way society collapsed or for whatever reason, the ensueing starvation of billions due to collapsing fertilizer and fuel supply chains, is the fantasy.
- Who's planning on murdering as many people as possible? Seems like someone writing a fantasy villain and not at all related to reality.

Let me dream god damn it, its the closest I have for a hope for a better future

"We can still improv...."

No....

No shut up

My ideology is leaving each other the hell alone.

What if the 'other' is building a nuke? What if they refuse to vaccinate and are a notch away from creating a new superbug that will likely kill you? What if they're pumping pollution into the air and water and maximizing climate change? What if they're raping and violently torturing children?
What if you need them to maintain your food supply, electricity, medical care, etc? What if you need the local 'other' to back you up if another more distant 'other' decides it going to kill you and take your land?
I say this as a heavily individualist minded person myself: You can't operate a worthwhile society as a collection of islands. You need cooperation.
It would be better to eradicate spacetime itself with a vacuum decay event than to allow a completely brutal "every man for themselves" world to continue existing. Pointless suffering.

Many of those people will not have developed political reasoning, and will consider themselves "apolitical" due to having never investigated their own political viewpoints...

Or worse, they'll consider themselves "objective" when it comes to politics, claiming they just know when something is true, or good for people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

Once, I nihilistically mentioned to my friend that “I welcome the coming inevitable nuclear holocaust.” His reply was something that I will never forget: “I don’t think you realize what nuclear war entails.”

I haven’t wished for the end of the world since.

Instead you should have said "I welcome a vacuum decay event erasing existence and painlessly and instantly deleting all life on earth."

What if I want the death of all humans... /s

I suppose you also want to make your own theme park with blackjack and hookers.

It’s not about “my” ideology; that’s focusing on the wrong part. The problem is that it’s a ridiculous analysis. Most of the people who say this stuff nominally support a free society of some sort, basically a version socialism, but it’s not personal.

MAGA are not socialists but many of them wanted to see the system crash and burn.

They all have the same ideology, forged and molded by the algorithm of social media.

For each 1000 ideologies in people's heads, 100 can be somewhat decently explained, 10 can be understood by others and only 1 works for some time.

The Matrix was right, humanity cannot tolerate it when things are good. That is how you get the OP image of 1000 different plots against the status quo.

Humanity performs best when collectively rising to defend against an external threat.

It is a strength that gets used against us when we install leaders that create fake threats to motivate us.

But an actual external threat usually makes humanity better.

Canada is improving right now as the entire country comes together in shared resistance to Donald Trump. He is probably making the EU better too actually.

You know, this may actually change the way I think about him.

Hegel is, once more, proven right.

Meaning stand up for your belief, and to the victor, the spoils. It's ironic. 🤷‍♂️

I'm honestly yet to meet anyone, online or otherwise, who genuinely advocates for the end of society as part of the movement's program. The vast majority of revolutionary movements don't build from the ashes of society, but rather seek to transform it.

Never met an accelerationist before? Not even online?
- Haven't met that many, probably because I don't browse those kinds of spaces.
  Even so, at least from what I know, their whole shtick is that they recognize how Capitalism constantly gets worse and worse, how it drifts toward reactionary politics that makes working class lives worse and how this kind of process cannot be reversed without world wars (to get rid of overproduction and stimulate war time economy, ww2 was key in beating the great depression) or other massive crises. Reforms seek to slow them down to make things better for a moment, but accelerationism seeks to prevent those from happening so Capitalism reaches another crisis faster and people revolt, etc.
  Even though I think it's stupid, being on the same level as fanatical belief of deprogramite ML's infesting this site that capital will die on its own and communism will naturally pop up like it's a force on nature, it's still at it's core a transformational movement and not "kill peopleism".

Ah the worst political people are those living in fantasy land

Humans….

Presumably they all have different ideologies

As long as the US fully collapses, takes the entity with it and stops fucking other countries I’m okay with it.

"Any number of minorities and marginalized groups dying is okay by me as long as Bad Flag is destroyed and I don't have to think about politics on a non-tribal level"
Yeah, that's about what I expect from Lemmy.
- It's not all about you. Remind me again, why are American lives more important than Iraqi lives or Palestinian lives?
- I respect the american will, they voted for this. It’s good for the world. These minorities didn’t care about the kids in gaza and have a way out compared to them. Why should I care?