How would you deal with right wing parents?
How would you deal with right wing parents?
For some context, we are first generation immigrants. My parents are Russian, my mother and her husband have been living here for 20 years (even got rid of Russian citizenship couple years ago), my biological father is still living in Russia.
It's damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, especially my father. He keeps telling me how great it is to live in Russia, how their economy is doing great and how he's proud that they are defending their "brothers" in Donezk and Luhansk from the evil bandera regime in Ukraine.
My mom voted far right in the past election. She doesn't believe she voted for nazis, but the party's views on economics, climate policy and immigration seem to align with hers. She believes wind farms are harmful for the environment. What the actual fuck.
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I've been brainwashed by "Western propaganda".
I'm at a loss. I love my parents and I know that nobody's immune to propaganda, but it's heartbreaking to see them holding these toxic beliefs. How would you deal with parents like these? Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it's pointless?
Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
Yes. I thought that was obvious, when have you ever seen children being able to convert their parents?
My mom was a conservative along the lines of McCain and Romney. My sister and I played a part in converting her, but Trump did the heavy lifting.
I unbrainwashed my mom but not my dad
My parents were anti-gay marriage back in the day… they converted when they were faced with the fact that ALL OF THEIR KIDS are queer hahaha
They’re totally cool with stuff now, and very much not right-leaning anymore.
I think a psychologist would say that if you really can't find common ground, it's best to agree not to talk about it.
Indoctrination is highly effective. Your parents were raised in a place where toeing the line is the norm and questioning those in power is traditionally a great way to ensure you disappear. Russians are deeply indoctrinated when compared to western nations because that's how their society has been set up since 1922. The Soviet leadership ruled by suppressing any dissent, violently and without remorse. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists, doesn't mean their ways of doing things disappeared too.
The only way to change them would be to engage in an equally sophisticated program of indoctrination: deprogramming as it's called. Since you lack the resources of the Soviet Union, it would be a much more difficult task, especially since your parents are now older and their brains are less changeable. They were indoctrinated as children and by a very prolific system. Reversing that now, by yourself, is a tall order.
I'm sorry your parents were failed by their leadership, it's truly a shame.
My therapist made a really great point when I brought up this exact issue with him. He asked if I value a relationship with my parents, and I said yes. Then he said that the price you have to pay for having a relationship with them, is never discussing politics.
It worked for a year or so, but then they voted for that rapist again, and I've since cut them out of my life. I'm not walking around on the eggshells of their bigotry and ignorance just so I can get some semblance of what some may describe as affection. You can only say/do so many shitty terrible things before I'm just done with you completely, and they hit their limit, so it was time to cash out.
Sorry, my advice of ignoring politics only works for a little while.
If you don't mind me asking, how often did politics come up with your parents?
Edit: just for my own perspective, they came up a little with my father while he was still alive and very, very rarely with my mother who I still see daily. I gently gauge the political position that my kids have but I've raised them all with empathy as a central tenet of their upbringing so that's more or less where they tend to fall as best I can tell.
I am not interested in ending up where you did and I mean that with kindness.
My parents have conservative talk radio and/or fox news on basically 24/7 in their house and car, so there was really nowhere I could escape their politics. I figured out that all their talk was BS, but could never convince my parents of anything. I could take a quote from their favorite host, and pair it alongside facts stating the opposite was true from an organization that they, themselves, were members of, and they still would dismiss me.
In reality, it's not the politics that got between us, it's that they're shitty people.
Similar struggle. I told my folks (they live 2hrs away and I see them every 2 mo.) that they need to choose: a relationship with me or talking about politics. At first I gave a couple warnings, but after maybe 3 or 4 times. I reiterated, me or politics, and left without another word. Works with phone calls too. "Did you hear what Bide" click - I hang up.
Treat them like dogs - they're trainable. If you abruptly leave or hang up every time, eventually they'll get the hint. If not, they've made their choice and if it's not you, then you'll need to move on.
I didn't travel 2 hours to talk about someone I'll never meet. Let's talk about ourselves and what's new in our lives. What's going on in the garden, what's new in the office, whatever happened to what's-her-name you used to hang out with.
they’re trainable
This does work from experience. It also obligates you to be the person that puts energy and work into the relationship without it ever being reciprocated.
At any point you can decide that it's not worth it anymore, OP. It's completely fair to decide that this minute or 5 years from now.
OMG
I was born in PRC, and I immigrated to the US along with my family. They just look at WeChat all day, and regurgitate CCP propaganda, and also pro-maga propaganda which is kinda an interesting combo of propagandas, considering how maga is always anti-China. Keeps blaming Democrats for the "migrant crisis" like BRUH we are immigrants 🤦♂️.
They left for economic (and to some degree political) reasons. Its fucking hard to get a job in mainland China, like theres 1.4 billion people ye know what I mean. And there's no unions, no strikes, no workplace safety, no labor rights.
Yea they look at their current Union job in the US and still be like: "China wasn't that bad"
Also funny thing is: I was the second child to be born in my family... during the One Child Policy... 👀
So I was not supposed to be born, my parents violated CCP policy, and they would've killed me (as in a forced abortion) if they found me, so my mother had to hide until I was born, but even then, I didn't have legal documents (like birth certificates) until they paid a massive fine.
AND THEY ARE STILL SYMPATHETIC TO THE CCP 🤦♂️
Gee, thanks mom, guess if you love CCP so much, just let them take you away and force an abortion? At least I wouldn't have to deal with this fucked up world.
Like, that's my best argument against them every time they bring up pro-CCP views, I'd just be like (in Cantonese, obviously): "So you agree they should've killed me? Why didn't you just let them then?" that shuts them up every time.
I mean, this world is so bizzare, I feel like I'm on some Truman Show and everyone is just messing with me
I'm thinking that it's hard for them to be anti-CCP when all of their lives have had CCP propaganda as their main source of information, and moving abroad doesn't really break that bond since the familiarity is still available online.
And of course CCP doesn't seem so bad when they're compared to the "alternative" as portrayed by the CCP.
No different than many American-Indians tbh. If India is so great then why don't these fuckers come live here? I fucking hate it here, let me go to USA in their place.
That is all... massively fucked up.
If you're set on doing this you need to accept you may never be successful.
Also it has to be something gentle, not necessarily subtle, but compassionate. If you don't accept that they believe in their views then they will only feel attacked and lash out for defense.
As for actually changing their views, choose one or two things that you can point to in examples they can observe. Propaganda has a very hard time defeating our own eyes and ears. I don't even know which country you're in so you'll have to figure that out for yourself.
Another way to change their views is to get them to volunteer with organizations that help people down on their luck. A lot of times, just hearing the stories of how people ended up in need of help can change attitudes.
I work in Arizona with the homeless and downtrodden. The overwhelming majority of them are right wing and are homeless because they actively refuse help, among other severe mental health issues.
That sucks. I've had the opposite experience. Obviously the mental health issues are a thing but usually the people without those issues are keenly aware of why they slid into homelessness.
This is a positive recommendation :) know that you might succeed, but attempts coming from compassion instead of belittling or impatience. I tend to engage in asking certain questions until they reveal to themselves that they don't support the things they've been tricked into believing
Just avoid the conversations. You can't change their mind.
I have conservative parents. I'm hoping it will personally affect their lives enough that they understand how ignorant and irrational they're being.
If they're drawing social security or on Medicare you may get your wish soon.
Or just show them video of trump talking about how he's going to slash entitlements.
I stopped talking to them because every time I did I would have to correct things that they say because I am more knowledgeable about absolutely everything given that I'm not a dumbass
Shit is so exhausting, though.
What's more important to you: having a relationship with them or changing their views? I don't mean this as some kind of "gotcha" thing. This is the choice you need to make.
You already have your simplest solution to this (don't talk politics with them), but you made this post because you don't like that solution.
Thankfully most things in life aren't so black and white. It's possible that you can work on them very very softly and slowly over time, but this all comes down to what you can stand in order to keep your relationship with them.
I personally think that attempting to avoid political topics with them is the best direction to go here, but it's not my parents or my choice to make for you.
There is a way to deradicalize people. It's not easy, but it's possible. I'm surprised this isn't more common information now, but here it is.
You need to understand that each of us builds our beliefs on a set of ideological structures. We believe in policies because of principles. We believe in principles because of foundations. All of these ideas reinforce each other and create our sense of self. Preservation of the self is the highest imperative, and so people resist persuasion with increasing ferocity the more foundational an idea feels to their sense of self.
The way around this is to convince them that their foundational beliefs support a different concept. In many ways, it's actually a bit like the premise of the Christopher Nolan film "Inception" without the technology: the person needs to essentially feel like they themselves discovered whatever idea you're trying to convince them of, based on their existing beliefs.
This means first understanding what their core beliefs are and why they feel that these support the policies and identies you're trying to change. Then you need to identify what can serve as a replacement, and find a way to get them to see the replacement as more appealing.
To put this into practice, can you tell me what you'd describe as their underlying principles? What are their fears and desires that shape their values? Common examples for conservatives include fear of change; a belief that life is a ruthless zero-sum game, and that we all most look out for our tribe or we will be exploited and subjugated by our adversaries. Conviction that tradition is a guide to keep us safe from reckless thinking, and that prescribed social roles and hierarchies are essential for our very survival.
If that's the case, you can't argue for progressivism by trying to convince them that we should all just love each other and welcome immigrants and that gender and sexual freedom are socially good. It's like trying to talk them into jumping off a bridge. Instead, you need to explain how if you want to look out for yourself and your family, you should do it in a different way. And these politicians who sound so convincing are secretly the kind of people that they already don't trust.
Keep in mind that replacing their faith in these kinds of leaders with your preferred political leaders is likely folly. People don't invert their ideological identities. You need a replacement that is a good match, and because politics are often polar, a better substitute for dangerous political attachments are often simply outside of politics entirely. This may be non-partisan faith communities or sports teams or local social clubs. But if you can find a new story that fits into their existing theory of the world and satisfies their ideological needs better than right-wing politics, you CAN get people to slowly stop watching YouTube conspiracy videos or stop spending their time in far-right Facebook groups in favor of something healthier.
All of this is hard to do, but it CAN be done. I find it very frustrating that this info is still somehow obscure considering how essential it is these days.
I'm of the opinion that a lot of conservatives would stop being conservatives if they could magically gain the ability to feel empathy.
Block their access to propaganda channels. Don't tell them you are doing this. Make it look like it's malfunctioning, if you can. Expose them more to educational material.
Example: Swap fox sub with vox. Set the child lock on their tv. Domain filter facebook in their router or throttle the service to make it unpleasant to use. Set up url redirects. Get them a stack of dvds. Proper entertainment is better than propaganda. They watch that crap cause they are lazy and it's easy.
If they give up and switches to a more sane channel for their entertainment, politics or otherwise, you have succeeded.
The idea is to remove them from the constant barrage of propaganda from bad actors. If they stop hearing about "evil trans people" every ten minutes, they will probably become uninterested after a while.
My parent gets recommended right wing propoganda via youtube, and it's infuriatingly difficult to stop it. After I blocked Fox news, the algorithm will simply recommend Fox news videos and streams from innumerable other random channels that do nothing but that, and it becomes whack a mole.
I subscribed them to better sources, but even after deleting the view history, that shit always finds a way back.
Without looking anything up; I would try solving this problem with a browser extention that can hide videos by keyword.
filter FOX, trans, woke and whatever else usually excites or makes them angry. Check their history for a list of things to filter.
If you wanna be extreme, you could redirect youtube to some other video hosting site. you might be able to block some domains to break the yt app but still allow the homepage.
if they are accessing yt through mobile apps, I would consider swapping it for an alternative yt app with the feature of keyword filtering. without checking if they have this feature, you could check out Newpipe, vanced, skytube.
At least you can turn off recommendations and search suggestions and only show subscriptions in the ui.
Do them the service of installing sponsorblock and ublock Origin, to make the browser experience superior to the official app. (also avoids propaganda ads)
Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately though, I don't live with my parents anymore. They seem to consume information mostly through telegram, news articles and Russian television. I wouldn't know how to shield them from those influences, I don't have access to all their accounts or devices.
Tell them what you think and then cut them out of your life. That is what I have done. Fuck their nonsense.
This is way overkill. If political opinions are the only issue you are having with your parents, then just avoid talking about politics. It’s that simple. Cutting them out of your life over something like that is cruel, silly and dramatic.
That really depends on the political views. If someone's belief is that certain groups do not deserve to exist/live, or at least doesn't care enough about those views of the party they voted for, that is absolutely reason enough to cut them out of your life.
I moved a couple states away from my family to minimize any interaction. It's not just politics. Their politics are, however, and indicator that they're not the type of people I want to associate with, so the extra distance facilitates less contact.
Of course, I moved to Iowa, which has since shifted from purplish to red. At least I'm on a blue city.
Get away from them as soon as its feasible.
Easy. Log into their router next time I visit, adjust the DNS setting and redirect fox, oann, and facebook to actual news sites.
Some routers have DNS settings other than choosing a DNS provider? :0 What does setting this up look like generally?
My parents immigrated from "communist" Poland years ago and had similar conservative views. Abortion bad, church good, black people lazy, etc... It took years of discussions and disagreement to get them to think in a more progressive way, and yes, having siblings helps. And if you can convince one parent, they can help you convince the other.
I truly believe that art is one of the best ways to alter the way people think. I found that watching movies/documentaries with my parents that had strong ecological and humanitarion viewpoints were a great way to start these discussions. Movies about topics like systemic racism, homophobia, corporate greed/fraud, environmental destruction, religious abuse, etc...
For example, the Netflix documentary '13th' have real insight into how the systemic racism uses poverty to keep marginalized people poor and desperate enough to commit crimes. Which are then blamed on their skin color rather than their on economic situation.
Smother them with a pillow while they sleep.
Edit: this comment will land on the right side of history
When I was younger, I would have argued till I was blue in the face. I've since learned to choose my battles and not waste my time and energy on battles I know I can't win... so I'd leave it alone as much as they allowed it, and eventually refuse to discuss it at all if needed.
You don't owe your parents anything. Cut them out of your life entirely if you need to and are able to. Otherwise either keep standing your ground and try to keep converting them, or just make it clear that you won't discuss politics.
Both your parents sound slightly worse than my dad, who I went no-contact with for several years
Oh hey we're in the exact same boat! My parents are from Russia too and moved to Germany about 20 years ago. If the bureaucracy here wasn't that slow, they would have had citizenship by now and 100% both voted AfD.
We never had a decent relationship and I'm not concerned about preserving anything, so the goal is to just fully cut all contact at some point 🤷
Until then, I just act ignorant whenever they bring up politics (like literally pretending to not know who Trump is, because "what, why would I pay attention to niche american politics, they're literally an ocean away??").
Works pretty well, sometimes it even does make them retrospect about why they would care so much about seemingly random topics (because Russian propaganda channels train them to react to specific buzzwords).
Ultimately, I don't think they would ever change into better people and any energy put into changing their minds would be better used somewhere else.
"If Russia is so great why do we live here?"
Tell this every time they start bullshitting.
The father still lives in Russia though.
The reality is that it was a mistake to give boomers unfettered access to the internet. Just like we dont hand Ipads to 5 year olds and let them click anything on YouTube.
Sorry dude, there's nothing you can do. They're not going to change their beliefs regardless of what you say or do. Ya either gotta accept that this is who they are and find a way to work around it, or you cut off all ties and go your separate ways. It really sucks but there's no reason to waste your energy on something futile. It will be a waste of time and just leave you disappointed and upset.
Disappointed and upset is exactly how I feel! Thank you for your input.
I gave up on my mother after she voted for Trump this past election. I had been accommodating her terrible beliefs by instating a "no politics" rule in 2020. But her helping him back into office again is too much. I have friends who he wants to harm and that's not acceptable to me.
If you live with them it could be tricky but let them know you will not be talking politics or any kind of emotionally charged topic with them going forward. Lets keep it light and stick to the things we agree on and leave everything else at the door. Avoid talking about them or saying you or sounding accusatory to minimize defensiveness, just let them know these topics and conversations are not how you want to use your time and energy and thinking anymore.
If they start trying to drag you into a forbidden topic, simply let them know you are heading off to do something since you dont have anything to add or contribute to topics that you are uncomfortable with like you mentioned to them before.
Start with this and let us know if they bite. I've got some other ideas but start with this and see how it goes. At the end of the day, engaging in these kinds of discussions over and rehashed constantly is damaging and pointless so the key is transcending them by not participating in them or feeding the wrong wolf. Be polite and respectful but also assertive that you will not be dealing with these topics any longer
Although I don't live with them, the topic comes up every time I am on the phone with my father. He keeps yapping and yapping about how great the motherland is, until I snap. It seems it's all he ever wants to talk about - Putin this, Ukraine that.
Thank you for your advice, I'll try setting up some boundaries next time he calls.
Ya just let him know you're not spending your time and mental energy on that stuff. Stop talking to him on the phone or let him know that as soon as things are falling off course into that stuff, you gotta go and take a break from him for a few weeks.
Eventually he will get the message but if its still a problem after that, might need to go no contact to demonstrate you're serious
Are they, especially your mom, different in person?
I have this one aunt who will hold forth in any crowd, insisting on whatever conspiracy theory she read on Facebook most recently. It’s tiring to the point that most of my adult life I’ve avoided her at family get togethers. But last time I saw her, just before pandemic, we happened into conversation away from everyone else. She came across lucid, intelligent, and we had a good conversation. wtf? Where has all that been?
I virtually never discuss politics with my parents. I don't have a clue about which party they even vote for.
Don't discuss politics with them if you want to maintain contact as parents.
I'm low-contact with a couple of my core family. When we do meet, the other relatives are usually nice enough to just stop any political conversations or rants. Every once in a while, one slips through and I just ignore it, but our interactions have become infrequent enough that it's maybe yearly.
It's heartbreaking to both see some real opinions in some cases (some of which are products of their eras, and some of which have softened), but I also mourn the lack of immunity to conspiracy theories and propeganda on the other; I have seen almost a polar shift in one relative that really shocks me.
Is "here" in the US? Or somewhere else in the West? I'm mostly asking because I could probably give more concrete tips if it were in Germany.
Have they ever met a refuge from Ukraine? Did they talk with them?
As for things like wind parks or climate policies or economics I think it is important to find a way to present that as "this is directly financially beneficial for you". Here in Germany, let's say, different independent financial institutions have calculated the total tax burden based on your income bracket if different parties were in power and went through with their plans. And lo and behold, of course FDP, CDU and AfD would have very much increased the tax burden on low to middle income people. Or they calculated that the great sounding plans of these parties would cost like 150 billion euros - which is an incredibly high sum - and explaining this away with "oh we'll make the economy prosper" doesn't work either (more calculations that are irrelevant if you're not in Germany).
My honest tip is don't make it about ideology. If you want to keep talking about politics, don't talk about liberation. Don't talk about foreigners, nazis, climate change, DEI or LGBTQ. Your best bet is money. And safety maybe. But as others have suggested - reconsider whether you even want to throw pearls at swine and try to convince them of something different.
And don't forget that a lot of behavior is a reaction of fear. In the beginning of the war there was a great podcast episode of Екатерина Шульман where she tried to emphasize that in times of aggression, it is a very natural response of the psyche to align with the aggressor. Your parents neither want to see the country they came from, love and probably idealize (as we always do with our past, especially when we don't fully beling somewhere new) as the Bad Guy, nor do they want to be scared - for their country, for their future, for their relatives, for you.
Also, I just want to say, my condolences, and I deal with similar stuff. My family is either apolitical or opportunistic, and the best case scenario is "well both sides are bad". I've been scared to call my grandpa who has первый канал running 24/7 for a year after the war started, I can guess what side he is on. If you ever want to just vent about how awful and difficult it is, feel free to write me.
Diese Kommentarsektion ist nun Eigentum der BRD /s
Ironically, my mom's husband is from Odessa, Ukraine, yet he still sides with Russia. They're small business owners and would likely profit from AFDs tax reforms. Their clients are also mostly "Russland-deutsche" and apparently most of them are also AFD voters. No wonder they were influenced towards this direction. Hard to tell if they have spoken to Ukrainian refugees, doesn't seem too unlikely given their clientele.
I think your tip with money is right on the nose. I would also describe my family as opportunistic, now that you mention it, it sounds like a fairly accurate description.
They don't seem fearful at all to me. My father for one thing believes Russia is the land of the free, where the government protects its citizens from evil NATO. I asked him what he thought about all those opposition journalists who disappeared or got jailed, or what about the laws forbidding to criticize the government on social media. His response was "nobody got jailed! It's all fake news! My colleague criticizes Putin all the time and nothing happened to him! It's those foreign agents and business crooks who got jailed, and rightfully so!"
It's very frustrating, I feel you bro.
Do you happen to have any resources on how to counter pro afd/ pro Putin arguments? I remember seeing a YouTube channel debunking Putins propaganda in Russian, but I don't know what they were called.
I cut ties with a friend my age (early to mid 30s) who grew up in Germany but had Ukrainian roots, and family in Ukraine next to the border. He also didn't believe what "Western media" said and only what his family on the border is telling him and "they know who is bombing whom". He has a Master's degree in psychology. It completely fucked me up.
My parents also have friends living in Krim who were super happy about the takeover in 2014, and they are there, so they must know better, right?
And there is some truth to that: We are also not immune to propaganda and of course Western media has its biases. I am confident that we too are being fooled here and there. You can see this in a very one sided media coverage of Gaza in German news. Most Ukrainian refugees I've met do indeed just want the war to end and some openly don't care whether their land will belong to Russia afterwards. They just want their relatives not to die. Zelensky is being heavily criticized and he is also not immune to corruption, while the internet thinks he is some god like hero with unquestionable integrity and balls of steel. He is also just a human and a politician. Ukraine is no moral safe haven and we have to remember that. My husband's cousin should not have been drafted, but he was drafted right away, because obviously someone bought themselves out and the place had to be replaced. Not everyone wants to fight for their country, but some were forced to, still. His second cousin was only drafted a year later, although he should have been in the first or second wave.
That "evil NATO, nobody got jailed" theme of your parents sounds very much like what my family would say, all of it. And it is hard to counter and admittedly it was a narrative I believed until I went to Russia in 2016 for a semester, met people, saw the country, talked to locals, met my husband. My strongest tip for you is therefore - don't get sucked into it. First and foremost be sure in what you believe in. Be sure that there are indeed people who oppose the regime and the war. Be sure they do exist. I know this sounds trivial, but sometimes it is easy to start questioning yourself when your own knowledge doesn't come from local sources. After all, your parents probably have more ties to Russia and Russian media, so they have an "insight", while you might actually really be manipulated by second hand Western media, right? ...
I've been thinking a lot whether I can give you any resources on how to counter pro Putin or pro AfD arguments. I'll start with the latter: Geld für die Welt is a youtube channel I stumbled across shortly before the election, and it has some great videos exposing illogical arguments (there is a great one about money as mentioned in my previous comment that I can link if you want).
As for Putin's propaganda: I'm not sure I know many good first hand sources. Obviously Ekaterina Schulman's podcast Status (статус) has great insights, and I recommend listening to her speech как это пережить that came out three years ago. It gives you some kind of comfort. OVD Info - which you can support via Global Giving btw, strongly recommend that - has stats and information on political imprisonments and therelike. Most information I get is actually from telegram channels, which I started following about a year ago. There are also groups of the Russian opposition (Idk where you live, but here in Leipzig there is a great one, and the chat often posts links to articles, videos and other resources). As someone who only recently got into Russian oppositional media and activities (and having limited reading/understanding abilities), I cherish these kinds of insights by people who are much more in touch with what is happening. Most have been political activists for years and many have fled from political persecution. Basically, I know I can trust their sources. Maybe it is worth asking for resources there. There is also Team Navalny in Germany and Demokratie-Ja. Medusa etc is also a classic news source.
But then again, I would not try to "debunk" or "show facts", I don't think this works well in general. It reminds me of a John Oliver episode - was it on UFOs, conspiracy theories, or vaccines? - where he has a great bit on how to talk to people who believe in such things without being condescending or just showing them "facts". They are not dumb. They believe what they believe because of subconscious fears, experiences, manipulation. No one is immune to this and it is important to meet the people where they stand and with respect and understanding and an open ear.
Nothing you can do.
It’s not uncommon for people who lived under harsh authoritarians to still support that methodology even if they emigrate to a more moderate and tolerant society to escape the shit country for a better life. Cubans, Russians, even some of my own family members who lived under one of the most infamous dictators of all, they have the same sentiment about their own fascist leader: “At least Hitler made the trains run on time.” Even if it isn’t true, the dictator would bash heads and keep the apple cart from being upset - not because doing so made anyone’s life better…quite the opposite. Bashing heads and keeping order prevented things like crackdowns, purges, arrests and the like that made lives worse.
Books or audio books on the subject of cults and conspiracy theories help to both understand this and eventually know what to do about it.
Unfortunately, you arguing with them about it most likely did only damage and no good. Stop. It will only make your parents more right wing (and you left) then drive you both crazy.
Here is a good place to start if you like: Hivemind by A.Montell Cultish BA S.cavanagh
Hit me up if you want more. But it's a complicated subject that can't be explained in a short lemmy post. If you want any other advice, OP, eatsomeveggies.
Well, one of mine died and it turns out the other one turned Trumper because she had developed dementia so I don't hold it against her.
Have you tried that?
Idk death and dementia don't seem like a feasible solution to me
Did rational evidence based argument work?
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I’ve been brainwashed by “Western propaganda”.
I would ask "What makes you think so?" and go from there.
Likely the only viable way is to guide them into realizing where their biases come from, or that they're taking views over without questioning them.
If you seemingly can't change their opinions or views, and it burdens you, it's fine to accept different or opposing views. You can either evade those topics completely, and if necessary be vocal and explicit about that, or physically leave [the room] if necessary, or make your opposition clear while also making it clear that you have no interest in discussing it further.
It helps if you have siblings on your side who can shout them down. Genuinely. 3 vs 1, or 3 vs 2 is still enough to open their minds on some topics.
Meet force with force, but only if you have an army. If you're an only child, a more subversive approach is required
To quote mc Paul Barnum
"They’re scared of change because they are new to it. So don’t demand change on the face. Change can be fluid. Sometimes it’s all right to give up on adults who worked themselves stupid."
I wouldn't.
I'd approach it from a personal level, as in, "you're disgusting for doing this, you're disgusting for pretending any of this bullshit is defensible. This is beyond the pale. I'll talk to you again if you stop it with the crap, not before. I'm ashamed to come from people who would do this."
I don't know if it's a good idea to try and talk actual policy points with them. You think they reasoned their way there? This isn't politics, it's assholish indecency. Treat it like the thing it is.
Debating people who's entire thing is "don't be serious but make the others be" is dumb. Clown on em, tell them you can visit when they stop being transparently awful. Make it their job to patch things up, and don't use kid gloves. Don't allow the idea that they have a point into the conversation. That only applies to people who have points. Nazi shit gets you put in time out instead.
Don't take up the mantle of always having to put out the fire they keep lighting in the bridge between you. They'll burn it down and try to blame you for it, mark my words.
I don't talk politics. Not at work. Not to my parents. I just keep my opinions to myself to keep my sanity.
This is the way. Most loud people don't talk politics, they just convey the latest talking points because they feel like being rewarded.
Just stay out of the stupid-shouting match.
I moved out when I was 18 and mostly don't talk to much of my biological family.
My parents are more right wing than me and I tend to just change to conversation topic or make non-commital comments about their opinions.
From my perspective it seems like a general trend towards becoming more right wing for a lot of older people and I'm definitely not going to change their mindset which has been set over 75+ years. I try to just enjoy the time I have with them while I still have them.
Think about attending the funerals if you need the closure but you're under no obligation.
You can't win, unless you delete their social media. There is nothing you can say or do that won't be erased by their next Facebook visit. They are also co-dependent and will not divert from their course individualy
It's damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, [...]
Then don't, and if that's the only thing they're willing to talk about, make passive aggressive remarks about their lack of conversational creativity.
No contact
Immigrants to where?
Germany
Tell them this, Can't buy a house under Republicans,can't buy a house under Democrats, while it's great it worked out for them. You are not represented as a voter and they need to get their heads out of their ass. That is, if they try to push conservative ideas. Otherwise, let them be happy and stupid. The misery is coming for them eventually, so why rush them.
Leave.
I cut them off.
We consciously make an effort to either not talk about certain topics or we try to not get too deep into certain topics. This doesn’t always work and we clash, but the clashes don’t cause as much trouble as they used to.
Often I just listen to them and try to support them through the concerns they have. I’m aware that they influence me, being aware helps to either ask them or myself critical questions.
Friends & Family > politics
Now one could argue I’m not serious with my stance and I’m weakly backboned. Id answer that this is my family and I’d advise you don’t put politics over friends & family or you will end up alone at some point.
the challenge Im facing is that some if my family voted to put me and the people I love in camps.
How do I deal with that?
Ghost them as soon as possible and leave the country and naturalise elsewhere if possible
Feed them gotcha questions. Treat it as a mental exercise.
Do not do that. That just reinforces their beliefs and tribalism
It's much better to coddle them so they instead end up feeling validated while they ignore you.
Science. Use the truth: find articles, researches and data.
You can't use reason to convince someone away from an opinion they arrived at unreasonably.
You can enter the doubt. The goal is not to win an argument but to create a paradigm, the Socratic method presupposes listening to the opponent while continuing to ask him for insights that he will not be able to give you if he has not studied them.
Submit an anonymous tip to ICE that they are illegal. ICE stooges are dumb so they are going to do no checking and show up at their house acting intimidating.
Have you seen the garbage dumps made up of the blades from wind farms that can't be recycled? As for far right, Hitler was a fascist. Today the fascists are the far left, people like Antifa who believe violence is okay, in order to achieve their political beliefs. Imposing your beliefs on others using violence is fascism, and the left definitely engages in it. While I don't think Putin is a good guy, it sounds like your Mom might be right about some things.
Have you send the ash lakes and ponds from industrial waste from coal power plants? Have breathed in the smoke as it fills the valleys of the mountains of your home state? Have you watched as rivers died from oxygen depletion? A couple tons of fiberglass is nothing compared to the shear desolation of carbon fuels. It’s easily contained.
There is a paradox known as the “tolerance paradox”. The basic premise is “should you tolerate the intolerant” while at first it may seem complex it’s really simple. No you should not. Those who call for violence on other deserve the boot. That is the difference between the left and the right. The right punishes those they deem ill fit to live in society. Forcefully. The left accepts, but are not push overs. Those who oppress deserve oppression.
There's a whole lot of really wrong things there.
But show me those wind farm blade wastelands to start. Show me that - I'm gonna look by satellite because they're huge - and we can talk later about those dangerous and violent anti-fascist types like demonstrators and veterans.
It would have taken less time to google yourself than type all those sentences. Go look.
Political violence in the US is almost exclusively right wing these days. Fuck off with your lies and bullshit.