There absolutely is way. The dems are routinely ineffective and they lost a lot of votes from 2020 because of the whole "Harris backs Israel in a genocide" thing.
Just cause the greater evil won doesn't mean the left needs to start peddling unfounded "stolen election" conspiracy theories. It's completely reasonable that enough people realized they fucked up by voting for Republicans, Third Party, or abstaining and took this as an opportunity to refute the actions of the current administration.
What if there was statistical evidence of probable tampering?
Plus Trump, in his rambling, said something that heavily implies tampering with vote counting machines.
What if there was statistical evidence of probable tampering?
All of the allegations listed on this site have fairly logical explanations when given context.
Republicans pushed against mail in ballots hard, so it makes sense that Harris would do better with mail ins and trump would do better with early voting. It also makes sense that trump voters mainly cared about the presidential election compared to Harris voters. It also makes sense that Harris underperformed as Democrats didn't get to participate in a primary. Basically it makes sense for there to be abnormalities in an abnormal election, that doesn't mean there's "statistical evidence of probable tampering".
Plus Trump, in his rambling, said something that [heavily implies tampering with vote counting machines
Right...... But this means that we would be questioning trump's honesty based on assuming that trump is being honest on this particular subject. He's a troll who likes to stir the shit and make people assume he's more competent than he really is, the same as musk.
It does not behoove progressives to question the reliability of elections without real evidence. Having people question the reliability of elections only serves conservative agenda of making it harder for people to vote.
And the whole thing about Republicans constantly projecting, they screamed about vote tampering and then shut up real quick as soon as Trump won. And the obvious fact that Trump and Republicans in general constantly cheat, lie etc. IMO it was obvious even before the election that they would tamper, cheat and do everything illegal and unacceptable in their power to win.
I would like to see the similarities between voting machines in districts overlaid with the results.
What is this website? I couldn't find any link to their board directly, but only through a search engine. Their board is just named with three first names and there is broad statements made about them all being passionate, data analysts, bla bla.
There is no specific "CV" for them. E.g. something like "X studied computer science and worked as a data analyst for ten years".
And the plots where they claim "suspicious" patterns looks like any aggregate. As the total number of votes go up, each machine is more likely to get towards the overall turnout, so your distribution peaks gets higher and your scatter plot scatters less. You see the same pattern with the Election day machines. Just that they only go up until 125 votes, rather than 250 or more total votes. So the spread remains stronger. Also the number of machines for early day voting is 964, whereas there was 3,116 machines for election day voting. This is another basic truth of statistics. As N goes up, the shape of your distribution gets more uniform.
So what do we see? We see exactly what is to be expected with a higher number of votes per machine. That the distribution gets narrower. And we see what is to be expected with a higher number of machines. That the distribution between machines gets more evenly.
Ignoring third party votes, this is a classical binomial distribution and you can test all of these effects easily by making your own "draw n out of N" tests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution
The only argument is that there is a higher result for Trump with early voting as opposed to election day voting. And that can needs to be analyzed in the context of demographics and other factors. For instance people who can take off work for election day voting have more white collar jobs and are demographically more inclined to vote Democrats. But of course accounting for these factors is not part of this "analysis".
I am not saying that manipulations are out of the question. But these people are clearly trying to bamboozle you with deliberate misinterpretations of statistics.
You honestly think the party of "Every accusation is a confession" who spent 4 years screaming about election fraud didn't commit election fraud?
It is better to go for specific leads and investigate those, rather than throw blanket conspiracies. The latter only helps Trump in abolishing democratic processes altogether.
The problem is the down ballot. I'm having trouble believing that a whole lot of people went out there and voted for Trump for president, and Democrats everywhere else.
I understand staying home. I understand voting Republican. But lots and lots of split ballots?
There's actually quite a lot of evidence.
https://electiontruthalliance.org/
https://smartelections.substack.com/p/so-clean
The tabulators switched after 500 votes and restricted dems to 45%, the data looks artificially smoothed to hide this. The same pattern is visible on elections going back to 2014.
They also found the remote access code for Dominion machines on a public repo with the private admin password in it, there's evidence of breaches all around the country from people associated with Trump. They got caught red handed, told us they were doing it the full time.
And that's before we get to the voter suppression, and 10-20% of the country being in a state of algorithmically induced psychosis.
A lot is made of the 'drop-off', which is easily explained by the fact that Trump is a unique phenomenon. People are shocked that some Trump voters might swing towards a democrat downballot, and I can't imagine the mindset personally, but I acknowledge it exists. Remember, they aren't Republican voters, they are Trump voters. Further, NC has a history of voting for democrat state offices and republican federal offices.
I think if they were going full tampering, you wouldn't see the drop-off, because they'd rig the down-ballot as well.
As to the graphs look funny, well, I think I'll need to see more analysis from more data by a broader set of analysts. I know that statistics will say anything if you torture the numbers enough, so I'm not going to get too invested in visualizations from one source.
Scrutinizing the vote is fine, but feel like this looks more like denial than an educated analysis.
For this case specifically, again, a 'Trump' voter is not a republican voter, the democrat party is way more energized to vote against a would-be Trump ally than before the election. Finally, I don't know about this race, but it's possible that those two in particular have something in the local population making the democrat more popular. For example in NC the republican governor candidate was way specifically a problem, so there's a much easier explanation for why he lost by an anomalous amount.
Thats pretty impressive. Sad it took 10+ years for the first comprehendible mention of it. Let's go on like this but a little faster please.
It is absolutely insane that only a couple million worldwide are on the fediverse. This information can NOT AT ALL be on single, non federated websites. Federate this stuff immediately.
Edit: correction and addition -> nice one with the algorithmic induced psychosis. I wish we could get some psychologists on this to make it actual science so its not some randos like us screaming into the void.
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I think it's more to do with them saying how great "the economy" is. They didn't even try to appeal to the working class. They just told them they should be appreciative. They lost because they eschewed the left.
TBH they should have taken the dems and been appreciative, instead they've all signed up to get fucked over by a GOP tax plan AGAIN. Did you know 70 Million Americans relied on the Medicaid they froze funding for and are about to gut with the recent spending bill? 79,308,002 if you include CHIP too.
A Harris Tax Plan would have lowered working class taxes and gone after capital gains for the exorbitantly rich.
These are very well documented stances, everybody should have been aware of all of this. There is no excuse about the DNC's message.
I just think the dems painted themselves in a corner by arguing there is no way someone could ever rig the general. The left was not built on the foundation of, "we trust the government."
Even the continued reluctance to implement some sort of election security reform is misfounded. Sure, voter suppression is a thing and we can't let our fear cause us to misstep but at the same time just because you haven't found election fraud doesn't mean it does not exist. The point of the fraud would be to go undetected. If they aren't caught, well damn, looks like it's working.
How would someone even go about investigating election fraud? You can't petition every state. No one would trust a private entity to fund it. If you even suggest that the machines are rigged the manufacturer will sue the shit out of you.
It's just another reason the DNC is a sunk cost. These absolute positions they hold are actually gaping vulnerabilities.
they lost a lot of votes from 2020 because of the
whole “Harris backs Israel in agenocide” thing.FTFY. It wasn't just the genocide. It was also this kind of denialism and apologism.
Just cause the greater evil won doesn’t mean
the leftliberals needs to start peddling unfounded “stolen election” conspiracy theories.Libs are right-wing.
Very important to keep in mind that even if evidence suggests the election was rigged that there are plenty of actors (Russia for example) that would want Trump in power to destabilize the states
Not pointing fingers and looking at this objectively is the best way for it to gain traction
It wasn't just Harris's stance on Palestine that lost her the election. It was because they ran right on nearly every policy. Honestly I think abortion was the only topic they remained aligned with their base on. Mass deportations, went right. Wealth redistribution, token jesters. Universal health care, they laughed in sick and poor people's faces. On and on, they told their base to go pound sand or have Trump as president. Whelp here we are.
Even if I consider election tampering a vague possibility, they’d never get away with it if that’s all it was. They likely aimed for a combination of factors, between misinformation, voter suppression, and/or vote tampering. Plus, people have said that public behaviors in many red states are that people are “pleased” with the result. This could be a vocal minority, but it’s hard to judge for sure.
I’m also not going to link to Greg Palast as “proof” of tampering - just that if we were under a responsible administration, there’s enough circumstantial oddities I’d want the election investigated for certainty (just as we did in 2020 even after Biden won).
They did do a variety of things.
- limited the dems to 45% on the tabulators after 500 votes
- suppressed enough votes that they would’ve lost if it weren’t for the massive voter purges and other legislation they shoved through
- algorithmically induced psychosis in 20% the population
If any one of these had failed they would’ve lost.
Plus, people have said that public behaviors in many red states are that people are “pleased” with the result.
Just this weekend I had to overhear a conversation about how terrible trans people are, and how good it was that trump is doing things about it.
Alright, imma post this one last time in this thread, I swear:
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
OMG here we go again.
In most democracies, there are election poll watchers from the major parties, and also independent poll watchers to observe and make sure no shenanigans are going on. The Democratic and independent poll watchers would've reported any election irregularities. I not seeing widespread reports of such.
States run elections, even safe blue states shifted 10+ percentanage more red.
So my conclusion: The vote count itself is probably legit.
The real "rigging" was done via unlimited political spending legalized by the Citizens United ruling to unfairly buy propaganda spreading lies. That, exacerbated by inflasion, voter apathy, democratic party incompetence, voter roll purges, and most important of all: Human Stupidity. And this timeline is the result.
Think about all those people getting scammed all the time. You see those stories and be like "OMG how can they be so stupid". Well this is the same, but with politics and elections. Talk to people and you'll see how dumb they are. Some people genuinely think that fascist coup plotter will fix things. 🤦♂️
These elections (like the one OP is talking about) are election has lower turnout, so it probably favors democrats, since democrats are more energized to vote after the defeat last november.
There was a ton of irregularities reported btw. I forget the exact number but like 20-40 with enough evidence that they were bringing the cases forward. But when Trump came in he appointed someone to a role who dismissed them all.
There's a pretty strong theory that it wass rigged by the tabulator software. One of the guys in DOGE was hired because he literally wrote software that could do that exact thing - modify submitted ballots. His involvement was literally scrubbed from the Internet before people found out about it (they missed a few spots). The Election Truth Alliance did a report on Clark County, NV, showed that there was a heavy skew after around 60% of the ballots were processed that should started lumping everything towards Trump - essentially, the votes should be chaotic, and almost somewhat random, not clearly clustering at the 60% mark.
Other red flags, we had one of the largest years for voter registration, a majority for Democrats. The polling all showed that we were crushing it. His rallies were showing lower turnout, and everything pointed to his platform losing steam.....and then he somehow wins every single swing state?
Yeeeaaaahhhhh......that doesn't happen.....you should be questioning the results.
Also: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/ gonna stop spamming this link now, but MAN it's infuriating that noone even considers this. They've been doing voter suppression for decades, how hard is it to connect the dots?
I mean I literally said this:
The real “rigging” was done via unlimited political spending legalized by the Citizens United ruling to unfairly buy propaganda spreading lies. That, exacerbated by inflasion, voter apathy, democratic party incompetence, voter roll purges, and most important of all: Human Stupidity. And this timeline is the result.
My point is, the actual vote count itself is legitimate, but the fairness of the election as a whole was definitely unfair.
All elections in the history of the US has been biased in favor of the more regressive candidate. This one is not much different.
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He didn't "handily win" he won by 1-2 points in the swing states.
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It tracks with an anti-incumbent sentiment, people are not happy with inflation so they voted against the incumbent, they're still not happy and still voting against the incumbent.
And he only won because a few million people who voted in 2020 sat on their asses instead of voting this time.
He didn’t “handily win” he won by 1-2 points in the swing states.
he won the popualar vote despite all the EVERYTHING
That tracks with the reality that half of America really likes the guy.
America is the country that had almost 70% of Republicans polling that Nixon shouldn't resign the day before congress decided to impeach.
He won. It is unfortunate, but not unsurprising or requiring a leap of faith, and it has all evidence supporting it, factually.
Now we need to take that reality and address it and the root causes--rather than fighting facts with preferred fantasy like the right wing has done at every opportunity.
There was no mandate. In 2024, every incumbent party in every liberal democracy worldwide lost ground because of inflation concerns.
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People on the left need to stop peddling this “Trump stole the election” stuff. It plays right into his rhetoric about our elections being rigged and allows him to cry again whenever his side loses. The comment in the screenshot looks like a fucking bot anyway.
Dems didn’t dump Biden early enough and the average American voter is dirt fucking stupid. Plus you’re telling me there’s some sort of massive conspiracy to alter votes in 7 different states with separate election systems and no one blabbed?
While I agree that every accusation is a confession until we see some hard proof that’s peer reviewed I’m skeptical. We shouldn’t be focusing on the past anyway, it doesn’t solve our current problems. We need to focus on the present and future.
Agreed. Fact is I don't think they even needed to. The electoral college does most of it for them, and then when over half the nation doesn't vote, and on top of that many Democrats just didn't vote, it's pretty obvious exactly what happened.
64% of the eligible population voted last presidential election, down from the record 66% in the previous. And Trump won the popular vote. We need reform but turnout is less of a problem than it has been historically.
A local special election being won doesn't mean a whole lot, either. Non-presidential elections and especially ones without Trump on the ballot inspire a very different voting group. This wasn't a federal election, either.
So my wager is on some combination of the following:
- Really low turnout.
- Mentioned working class.
- Didn't mention Trump.
People on the left
Libs are right-wing.
If he stole the election, and he did, then that needs to be drummed into the heads of the ones who actually voted for him. He doesn't care about anyone but himself or anything except whatever he defines as winning.
Trump's been talking about how he won because of Elon "being good with computers"
Investigations were launched over less
Everone is getting real jumpy around Isreal. Isreal has a booming cyber security industry and is one of the biggest exporters of security exploits that they sell to corporations and nation states.
They didn't need to use computers. https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
Part of why Trump wins is simply because there's more brand recognition for him. He gets media written about him very easily and his photo gets splashed around BY BOTH SIDES!
In today's politics there's nothing worse than becoming "what's his name" - "the other guy".
In the age of the para-social relationship the big names get the votes, regardless of whether they're liked or a reasonable choice.
Oddly enough the establishment left seem to think politics is a meritocracy. Which is idiotic and part and parcel with them being generally out of touch.
I feel strongly that the world has Mark Burnett (creator of The Apprentice) to thank for the presidencies of DJT being inflicted upon it.
Not nearly as much as the DNC.
Why aren't we talking more about all the mail in ballots that were destroyed in mailbox arson attacks or by postal workers?
Yeah, something about this shift in focus feels like a psyop. We have clear evidence of targeted voter suppression, destruction of ballots, etc. In a two party system, fraudulently removing your opponent's votes has exactly the same impact as creating fake votes for yourself. That's already clear evidence of fraud, why are we redefining "evidence of fraud" as a new thing that we haven't found yet?
Also dejoy running the postal service
all 300 of them?
Those people probably knew who they were, and probably voted after the fact.
Election denialism seems to just now be a feature of American politics
I’m sorry, but this is the most egregious example of “both sides do it” that I’ve ever seen.
The republicans made denying the election a central pillar of their platform, and the lies was repeated by virtually every leader in the party. And a violent mob stormed the capitol in an attempt to overturn the vote.
Show me a fragment of that being done by the left.
Natural result of decades of erosion to the fourth estate.
Thanks Ronald.
...but only when Republicans lose. When Democrats lose, it's decorum all the way down. So basically, Republicans will never admit to losing fairly ever again, because election denialism isn't punished.
"I didn't lose!!! It's eh the others that are cheating..."
So far it has only proven to be a feature of donald trump, and there is no evidence to the contrary.
It's definitely a lot more widespread than just Donald Trump.
You should look at chess competitions.
ahem Magnus Carlsen accusing Hans Niemann withiut evidence ahem
Ah yes the anal beads saga
Democrats are desperately willing to cling on to anything that will allow the party to continue on business as usual.
Perhaps this is because deep down in their hearts they understand that the DNC will not change no matter the circumstances, no matter the consequences. It's not what their donors desire.
At least the republicans are completely idiotic, what is your excuse blue conservatives?
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
He already admitted Musk rigged the voting machines
Link? I missed that.
Elon’s kid keeps saying stuff that sounds like it was rigged too. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist but I am intrigued at how some of this lines up.
https://gizmodo.com/elon-musks-kid-keeps-saying-weird-stuff-about-trump-2000563118
It's implied. I can't find the video just yet.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-elon-musk-voting-machine-2017657
At this point anyone who denies Elon stole the election is just as wilfully ignorant and naive as I was when I thought Trump didn't collude with Russia. How much blatant evidence do you need before you admit that the cheating fascists are cheating fascists? (they never will because democrats are doing literally nothing to stop Elon illegally dismantling the government) (edited to fix an autocorrect)
I mean - just by money and messaging or is there some actual data from voting that shows irregularities?
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
4,776,706 voters were wrongly purged from voter rolls according to US Elections Assistance Commission data.
By August of 2024, for the first time since 1946, self-proclaimed “vigilante” voter-fraud hunters challenged the rights of 317,886 voters. The NAACP of Georgia estimates that by Election Day, the challenges exceeded 200,000 in Georgia alone.
No less than 2,121,000 mail-in ballots were disqualified for minor clerical errors (e.g. postage due).
At least 585,000 ballots cast in-precinct were also disqualified.
1,216,000 “provisional” ballots were rejected, not counted.
3.24 million new registrations were rejected or not entered on the rolls in time to vote.If the purges, challenges and ballot rejections were random, it wouldn’t matter. It’s anything but random. For example, an audit by the State of Washington found that a Black voter was 400% more likely than a white voter to have their mail-in ballot rejected. Rejection of Black in-person votes, according to a US Civil Rights Commission study in Florida, ran 14.3% or one in seven ballots cast.
There are also the uncountable effects of the explosive growth of voter intimidation tactics including the bomb threats that closed 31 polling stations in Atlanta on Election Day.
Not definitive but irregular:
to be clear, there isn't hard evidence that shows that trump colluded to win an election with the influence of russia, however it does show a LOT of overlap between the trump campaign, and russian influence in the election, all per the mueller report.
your takeaway is a lot different from mine: here i'm thinking, how useless must this this katie whittington be.. LOL 9+k votes (total) between them. 14 percent of the district voted in this special election. tell us again how its IMPOSSIBLE kamala lost her swing states in the general presidential election.
Let's be frank: it was a special election where about a tenth of eligible voters turned out.
Trump ain't gonna see an FDR level midterms victory, unless he manages to destroy the American democracy totally, but I wouldn't look at this as evidence of some major shift by itself.
You know, after Mike Zimmer stopped being the defensive coordinator for the Cincinnati Bengals I lost track of what happened to him. Thought he went to the Cowboys or something. I guess we really could use some better defensive plays in the legislature though.
(I assume this must be a different Mike Zimmer)
He won "legitimately" by suppressing the votes he couldn't get in swing states. I heard that if you're black or in a metro area in a swing state that your vote was likely thrown out through some beurocratic bullshit.
Grain of salt: I did hear this on YouTube and I don't remember the channel, it might have been humanist report or something like that. It definitely sounded legit, though.
They had four years to corrupt the election offices in specific areas and I 100% believe they could and would pursue that opportunity.
EDIT: another poster shared this, this is basically the same thing I heard. https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
I heard that if you’re black or in a metro area in a swing state that your vote was likely thrown out through some beurocratic bullshit.
the only thing i've seen backed up is that a bunch of republicans were challenging registration status of mostly minority identities, pretty much all of which were fraudulent, so it's possible that this did influence it, not very significantly im guessing, im also pretty sure as a voter, that if your registration was invalid, it would be very very obvious to you. Everything i know about voting registration informs me that you must do all of this BEFORE election day, im not sure if there are any processes that allow you to retroactively do this, im guessing there are a few, but probably for select circumstances, very unlikely to be those im guessing.
Realistically, they probably gerrymandered and ran aggressive campaigning, which appears to have worked.
And what we'll see is by next election this guy will lose his seat because Republicans and Independents are dumber than goldfish.
Noteworthy enough, Trump's aggregate approval ratings is unfortunately quite high for the first month in office compared to before.
Yeah, it's because "at least he's doing something." Plenty of uninformed chuds are making the assumption that any action is good action. They're also the same folks that still insist project 2025 is a liberal hoax.
Im wondering how they ate compliling that number now.
Most of them have the methodology listed on the page.
For example, FiveThirtyEight also list the polls used to aggregate and their weighted value as well as the full list of contributing researchers to the project all listen on the page.
Aggregate sites all also predicted the election outcome.
Yeah sure they're a bunch of evil criminals, so if they had the methods to cheat they probably did.
But let's say that tomorrow there are worldwide headlines about some irrefutable smoking gun evidence. Or maybe Musk goes on TV being a little bit too high, or Trump gives an interview while a few neurons too many wither and die in his skull, and they say they did it, tell us where to find the evidence, and say it was worth it and they did it because they are patriots trying to save the country. Just doubling down on the old "He who saves his Country does not violate any Law."
DOES ANYTHING EVEN HAPPEN? Who is gonna do something about it?
The absolute most extreme result I could possibly see being reality would be that Trump manages to get Musk accused and convicted for the interference. That would be just as funny as it is unlikely, but it would fix nothing.
The evidence is in plain sight already: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
It’s simple: challenged votes. Watch Vigilantes INC in YouTube.
Hello, sorry to disturb, can you add his name or surname or political party in the description or title so I can filter this out please?
Yeah I wish there was a “political” filter on lemmy. Every post about politics is just people fighting or fearmongering lol.
Stop the steal!
to be clear, i've only ever seen actual reputable evidence of potential voter fraud through the case with the lady that illegally stole code for voting machines, it's entirely unclear whether or not anything malicious besides stealing code illegally happened or not, however it's not impossible that something couldn't have happened, it's hard to know for sure.
Every other claim seems like complete bullshit, and honestly, given the trump media circus, knock yourself out bro.
From a reporter who's been doing this shit since the 80s at least: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
a big question with all of these stats is whether or not they follow precedence, because there is almost certainly some amount of the voter base that will experience these issues, whether due to skill issues, or unfortunate mishaps. This wouldn't nullify the claims, because disproportionately targeting certain voter blocks would definitely constitute a huge problem, but that's a large uphill legal battle that needs to play out.
one of the arguments used is that "these laws passed in states where trump won" and to a degree that's probably true, could be for any number of reasons, but the deep red states were never going to vote blue, so a lot of this is almost certainly going to be a sort of survivorship bias fallacy, where you're surprised by red states restriction access to voting, and then voting red. Realistically it probably doesn't make a significant difference, maybe it does in the swing states, it's harder to tell unless you have the data.
It’s more likely all the on the fence voters which accounted for at least 25% of the vote are seeing that they made a mistake and are trying to correct it.
this really draws attention to how unpopular kamala harris was and what a fucked up party the DNC is.
No it doesn't, it shows how gullible yanks are for trumps bullshit.
Does it?
Now I wonder how this dem will work with trump to screw us over
Libs drowning in copium over... [checks notes]... a state election with a few thousands votes.
When was he last time you read anything that didn’t come from social media?
