Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I've heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I've had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there's something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more "it is the way it is" attitude. I've heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less "hate for hate's sake" but instead "it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct". Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they're racist.
Making sure I'm reading this right...I know a guy who claims he isn't sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren't as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn't sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you're saying?
Wow, you've really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It's like, people here just can't even fathom that what they're saying is racist, that they're racist, because to them what they're saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don't show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you'd see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don't get me wrong), but it's a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they're racist, or the country they're in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can't handle the notion of it.
It's really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it's not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you'll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
And even then the European countries that feel they're ahead of the rest tackling racism it's usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I've heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just... makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn't have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it's like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Definitely agree on the "Europe is just racist in a different way." Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I'd also add racism/xenophobia against "Eastern" Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they're still white.
Europeans are just as susceptible to racism as Americans.
There was an Old sub reddit of people from the Balkans shitting on everyone.
Until a westoid posted and they all piled on them.
Their racism puts ours to shame. Like an old wine. They have cultivated their strain of racism since before America was a thought.
Can't compete lol
As a European myself, never mention the Romani people to anyone here unless you want to hear the most degenerate, racist diatribe you can conjure up in your mind. (half hyperbole half not)
As a north american who lives in Europe, agreed. However, the gypsies do not help their own case. They show up in my region every summer, illegally camp wherever they want on private property, and leave huge piles of trash wherever they've been. I've personally seen them getting into all sorts of debauchery, including breaking into people's mail boxes and stealing bikes in plain sight. I have nothing against them and I'm sure their culture is extremely rich and interesting, but no one has the inherent right to just rip off the rest of society without consequences. Also, of course they aren't all stealing and misbehaving, but I understand where people's preconceived notions come from.
No shit,
HitlerSherlock. ;)That's elementary, my dear
ChurchillWatson.
Yep. I thought I knew about racism, and then I read some comments on some hearts of iron subreddit about Romani.
Can sadly confirm. European racism is just a different flavor of racism: there are always other European ethinicities to be racist against, especially Romani people, the latest trend seems to be discrimination against Muslims/people from the Middle East, and of course antisemitism is a timeless classic.
This. So many Europeans act with superiority because "at least we don't shoot kill them" when looking at US police brutality, but e.g. we ignore how those cops in US mostly use Glocks made in Austria, making us part of the problem (and making a profit out of it). Or if we look at the deaths numbers, we ignore the many deaths the "protection" of our borders cause.
yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we've terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
Yes it's perfectly fair and most of us don't mind.
I think the issue, especially on Reddit, was the over-representation of US Americans compared to the other countries.
It gets old quite fast to get called a "surrender monkey" or a Nazi on a regular basis in a space where most of the audience is on the other side and I'm not even French or German.
On Lemmy it's probably a bit more balanced.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren't ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on...
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
regulatory environments
Regulations are written in the blood of the victims.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don't help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don't want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn't say Europeans aren't ready to hear it
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
Rather have stifled innovation than innovation running rampant like what the US is doing.
With stifled innovation you only get through if you have an actual good idea instead of just an idea that makes money.
Ain't no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you're saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We're not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
Yea my healthcare one quickly got down voted. Someone used GPT to try to disprove it. I'm even a big propilonent of public healthcare, but you can't assume it is perfect.
As someone who isn’t a European, most of these comments are yanks being loudly wrong about something and the saying “see the europeans weren’t ready to hear it” when someone points out how stupid the thing they said was.
I will say the Americans not ready to hear post was pretty much everything I complain about all the time. I don't think these posts are good in any way. It's just slinging shit for no reason with no productive conversation.
Specifics?
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don't want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
Already happening, keep up
I think Europe can defend itself, it's not useless most countries have some military
The US has ever been a fickle bed fellow.
completely abandon you
You write "attack you for water/oil" weird. Or did I write the quiet-part worst case out loud?
i dont get this comment, at the hypothetical best case scenario wouldnt abandoning be "better" than attacked for oil? therefore attacked for oil not being the best case scenario?
Unlikely. The cost/benefit doesn't work for an assault on the EU. Most countries in the EU have to import oil and gas (Norway being a notable exception), which is why cutting off gas from Russia has been such a big deal. The cost of invading wouldn't be offset by the oil gains unless oil got really scarce. A smarter move--if we had a president that didn't give a fuck about our European allies--would be abandoning NATO, stop selling arms to EU members, and then buy oil and gas from Russia at a discount while Russia invades EU countries. (If, say, China didn't beat this entirely hypothetical US president to the punch.) As far as water goes, it would be cheaper to built massive desalination plants than it would be to move water by supertanker.
'Course, climate change is going to render most of this moot in 50 years or so.
Idolizing the past (and long gone) 'grandeur' of some European countries is not the best way to prepare for the future.
edit: as a disclaimer, I'm European from one of those once important countries.
Romanticizing "past greatness" seems to always involve some very shit politics. It's more obvious in these old empires, but it exists in more subtle forms elsewhere, too.
I was specifically talking about euros, but I guess a certain US president gets a honourable mention for his campaign slogan
Knackered, as t'were?
Such an underrated comment
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear? As someone who lives in the U.S. I know only a couple of people IRL who live in Europe.
The thing my European friend was not ready to hear was that all his complaining about the social programs in his home country and the high taxes and so on comes across as entitled and spoiled. Because he's never lived without the benefits of a state that will provide healthcare and so on, he is free to complain about his privileges and glorify the U.S. as a place where individual citizens fill in the responsibilities that the government should fulfill. He sees this as an unmitigated good, because he thinks it means more civic engagement.
What he doesn't understand is that this results in most people falling through the cracks, and until he falls through one of those cracks himself it won't be real to him how bad it is to not be able to afford losing wages because you are sick or injured, or what it's like when you can't afford to see a doctor when you break a bone or get so sick you can't leave your house.
That said, I'm not sure every European needs to hear this, or that they're not ready to hear it - just this one person seemed to be a little delusional and to have idealized the U.S. as some kind of right-wing libertarian utopia.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear?
-Goes on to do exactly that
Bröther
Opinions differ from person to person, some people here really are a bit disconnected from reality
of course, I assume most Europeans are not like my friend :-)
Europeans are really fucking racist. Asians and Jews are cool and yet yall are really weird about them. and don't get me started on how badly Islam is vilified...
It's true. I would extend this to the world, though. The world is generally fucking racist
Smoking kills.
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It's illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
Just came back from France it's out of control there seemingly.
Most of us dislike it. But it's also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It's just disgusting
Why wouldn't Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we've been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70's
It's always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Europeans like to pretend they're innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term "colony" comes from Christopher Colombus' name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European.Apparently, that was incorrect.tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
I don't think Columbus was the origin of the word "colony"
It came from Latin so the claim is still right, but for the wrong reasons
I guess Finland isn't European by your description then 🤷🏻♂️
The rest of your comment is great, but it would have taken a five-second check on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colony to make sure you got your etymology right (which you didn't)
Had my Spanish brother in law over for the holidays. He says spanish schools teach that the spaniards were trying to civilize the natives and bring them a better life. And sure, some things went wrong, but that columbus should be seen as a hero. He strongly beleives it. I was floored. I thought that stuff was pretty settled. I showed him some info on the genocide of Hispanola, and he said he'd never seen that before, but that we cant judge what happened back then by todays standrads, and that the word genocide hadnt even been invented back then, and that method of conflict was normal back then.
There was a recent call in Barcelona to take down the Columbus statue, at least as early as 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/27/call-to-topple-christopher-columbus-statue-from-its-barcelona-perch)
I live in Barcelona, and Colombus and colonization is definitely not a popular topic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/12/spain-leftist-columbus-day-celebrations
On the other hand, Spain can still be quite racist, football players being a good example (https://www.ft.com/content/6801c79a-6325-4a2a-9d5d-1d99b37920ab, https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240610-fans-get-8-months-jail-for-racism-targeting-real-madrid-s-vinicius)
We don't believe in generational sin, forced upon you because your grandparents did something bad either.
Lol the downvote brigade is here +11/-7 and on my other comment too, if I'm so wrong tell me why!
It really does feel like online communities get more relentlessly xenophobic when they have more Europeans. It just seems like a lot of you can't get by without mentioning where someone's from. Like, no, someone not seeing the value in retro computing doesn't say anything about "the intelligence of the average Scot." And if you can't tell where they're from, American by default.
Wow that's exactly the kind of thing a Scot would complain about
Really wish @notruescotsman was here right now
States in the southern U.S. are often the butt of the joke too.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called "Christmas as Usual" (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner", moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America's peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don't get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Agreed. We have been sold xenophobia by our politicians and media for longer than America has existed.
Your point really doesn't land. Netflix released a movie? Okay... And?
The film was one of the few of the time to depict an interracial marriage in a positive light, as interracial marriage historically had been illegal in many states of the United States. It was still illegal in 17 states, until June 12, 1967, six months before the film was released, and scenes were filmed just before anti-miscegenation laws were struck down by the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.
Makes more sense with this context.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe.
Oh damn it's all the way to cringe? Now that's serious lol
Rapidly approaching can’t even status
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
The film is based on the true story of Holmsen's sister, a Norwegian, and her relationship with an Indian, whom she brings home for Christmas Eve. The film was released to negative reviews.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Nah, your example is just shit and that the new world cannot hold a candle to us is fucking insane, y'all just re-elected Trump ffs. We definitely have a racism problem in European countries as well but our Trumpian party in Germany is currently polling at 19%, which is awful enough but to claim that it's that much better in the US is fucking nuts. I'm in a multiracial marriage myself and while my wife experiences racism in Germany, it's to a somewhat similar extent to the US
What does the movie have to do with anything? Your in-law?
The scary part is that this racism is very alive in German politics right now
Hopefully someday we'll learn to be more like USA police and judicial system.
That soccer is boring. I'm european and love playing soccer but it's boring to watch.
There's no soccer in Europe ;)
Only futbol.
The greatest spectator sport is curling 🥌. I'm not even joking.
Well that's just it; it's not boring, but watching it usually is. Professional sports was a mistake.
Soccer is at least barely enjoyable.
Not like those cycling races that take 5 hours with nothing happening in them.
OK now this one I agree with
Soccer is fine. It's the flopping which makes it unwatchable.
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you're back at 100% for the next attack?
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
The US is not a mono-culture and most of us (unfortunately not all of them voted) are against most of the things we as a country are ridiculed over.
I swear, replace "US" or "Americans" in some of the stuff Europeans are posting/commenting with any other country, and those would sound xenophobic AF. But somehow, because 'Murica, it gets a pass.
It's kind of funny because if you go look at the reply about soccer, several people are like "that wasn't the Europeans, that was the brits!"
It's the same thing here with different states doing different crazy things ... Not that we also don't do some stuff nationally that's crazy, like electing a certain felon, but ya know
If Europeans looked at states like countries it’d make more sense to them. Hell it almost is with the size of states vs counties, the amount of land and the fact that every freaking state still has its own set of laws that may differ.
Even within States, there is a diversity of culture. Looking at Louisiana, the New Orleans area is highly influenced by French history resulting in Cajun culture, while the rest of the state is generally Southern. Florida is similar to Ancient Greece and its city-states in that the metropolitan areas have their own culture. But even within the southeast metro area, Miami and West Palm Beach are culturally quite different. Even more zoomed in, consider the Bay Area (Frisco). The Haight-Ashbury district is commonly considered the birthplace of the hippie movement, whereas across the bay is Oakland, birthplace of the Black Panthers. Both were quite progressive yet at odds with each other due to cultural differences stemming from race.
We can zoom out and look at cultural differences across the country within the same racial group. For example, there's the famous East Coast vs West Coast rivalry in hip-hop that is so real, it resulted in the murders of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. Even within the same coast, New York hip-hop, such as Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z, and Wu-Tang, is noticeably different from Atalanta hip-hop, such as Outkast, Missy Elliot, and Ludacris. Even as static as race is, white rapper Eminem is often included in Black culture.
Within the White rural sphere, we can contrast Upper Peninsula Michiganders (Yoopers) with their major influence coming from long harsh winters to the Appalachians who are known for being culturally isolated, having a mistrust of outsiders and a history of conflict with mining companies. Then, we have rural white people from West Texas to Nevada that are influenced by the Wild West period and local native cultures. Even within that, Texans are much more conservative with social matters whereas Nevada has legal gambling and prostitution. They way I make sense of culture in the US is that it is an overlapping area of varying fields that interact with each other so that even direct lifelong neighbors can have have vastly different cultures.
I don't think I have to explain that obviously, this is the case in Europe as well. E.g. Germany alone has 16 vastly different states, and each state has multiple subcultures. The main difference is, our subcultures are more than a thousand years old, and the US 250.
any other country
Hey hey, don't forget about China lol. 'Oh you're Chinese? You must be brainwashed AF. Lemme teach you a few things about 4 June 1989.'
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It's not very heavy, but it's there, even among some of the best people I know
I have a formal sense of arrogance, thank you.
It's not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
I've been to restaurants in the Czech Republic, Germany, Poland, Austria, and Bulgaria.
I'm sure there are places that spice things up more and some of the restaurants were really good, but some were also some of the most bland food I've had at a restaurant.
It's the same thing in the US; there are places that won't put any spice on and there are places that will leave you crying the food is so hot and everything in-between.
Also every "Mexican" food dish I've had in Europe has just been bad. Y'all are doing it wrong.
Spicy food does not mean good food or more interesting food, eastern European food is almost never spicy but it's almost always really good and hardly bland as most westerners would cower in fear at the sight of some marinated fish or some such.
I used to live in Japan, and let me tell you, a lot of typical Japanese cooking is unexpectedly quite lightly seasoned. I don't mean all food, but especially common things like rice and fish dishes.
It lets you taste the food itself more than the seasoning. If you start with good ingredients, you don't need to dress it up as much.
Worst offender in my experience: the Dutch. I actually think their way of "seasoning" is to actively remove any natural flavour from the ingredients. They have the best Indonesian food outside South-East Asia though. Also, the Nordic Countries do a lot of things right, food is not one of them.
Also every "Mexican" food dish I've had in Europe has just been bad. Y'all are doing it wrong.
Yes, I read that a lot from Americans. I don't think Europeans care much for Mexican food because there's mostly no cultural connection to Mexico and no Mexican immigrants (Spain might be an exception). The rare Mexican restaurants you'll find in Europe are there for the American soldiers stationed here. Basically, when in Europe, go for Arab, Asian, or African food if you don't like the local food.
Yeah, the number of mexicans or mexican restaurants in Europe is very low, so each one doesn't have much competition to incentivise improving.
I had some pretty terrible Thai in Poland, so it's definitely not uniquely Mexican food 🙂 That's just one that I've had a few more encounters with that was more consistently bad.
Fair point about the cultural influence; it's probably less cultural influence than number of immigrants (and the US definitely has a lot of immigrants from asia and Mexico). I live in Ohio, so I'm fairly far from the border, but the Mexican food still ranges from "pretty good" to "fantastic."
Meanwhile finding like good French, German, or Belgian cooking, even in areas with historic immigration from those areas in decades or centuries past is quite difficult.
Even more traditional "early European American immigrant" food (like chicken and noodles, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, mush, turkey, roast beef sandwiches, etc) can feel endangered outside of Amish country, family kitchens, and large chain restaurants that do it badly.
Also every “Mexican” food dish I’ve had in Europe has just been bad. Y’all are doing it wrong.
Where in Europe? In Spain there is a large Mexican community, I hope they make it somehow right.
Probably varies depending on where you live. I don't even live in a big American city, but we do have access to a wide variety of restaurants including very spicy ones (they have non-spicy options of course, but there's plenty of places that serve spicy dishes from all over the globe.
Care to share some of the dishes you tried?
Generally the cuisine in those countries isn't spicy, but does not shy away from herbs and pickled anything. However we've been plagued by overpriced, tourist trap bad restaurants here, and Covid just made it worse.
I do echo that Mexican restaurants in Europe that I've been to are bad or meh at best. I've never been to Mexico and I hope the restaurants are owned by exiles who fled the country hunted by pitchfork wielding mobs, infuriated at how bad the cooks were :D
And on the other hand I don't get the obsession with putting so much spice into your dish that you can't taste the ingredients. "Seasoned" does not automatically mean "so much chilli pepper that it makes you sweat".
It’s not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
First time I hear this stereotype lol, I've only ever heard it about European countries (basically all of them that don't border the Mediterranean)
Greece. Food is usually good, but spice is a totally foreign concept.
And Mexican food in Greece is hilariously bad. Like they can't even Google a picture of nachos?
The sound from my portable bluetooth speaker. But that's mostly because it's a shitty speaker and you can barely hear it when it's sitting 3 feet away let alone when there's at minimum an ocean between you and it.
France, Germany, and Austria all have a military-industrial complex problem. MIL money might not dominate their politics the same way as the US, but there is a problem there.
Even with their post-WW2 defensive militaries, Germany and Austria are perfectly ready to sell military hardware to anyone with the cash. H&K, Glock, and Steyr all hail from those two.
France sold off the Exocet anti-ship missile to just about anyone. As far as I can tell, it has only been fired in anger at the boats of other NATO members. Thanks, France!
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I'm wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn't have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn't spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
EU collaboration and integration is a joke. Politically, the EU is divided and bizarrely complex. There are movements to improve this but they are not as popular as the sloganistic alt right that essentially just want to give up and go back to separate countries
Yeah, we Europeans have to figure out how to work together better, because that's the only chance we have of being independent from countries like Russia, China (or the US).
I spent three weeks in Belgium twenty years ago studying the EU's structure, with a lot of time spent on the "Constitution" treaty that failed in 2005. The professors were all generally in favor of it, so maybe they overstated its benefits and definitely overstated its chances, but it sure seems like it would have helped.
Also, the pea soup at the university canteen was surprisingly good.
Many of us I the US want to come there, and we're willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won't be able to until after retirement and that probably won't be until I'm too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn't allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you're already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn't all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
I'm not sure what you mean is hard? Besides uprooting and establishing a new life in a different culture ofc.
To my country a travel visa of three months is automatic/not needed from the US.
A work visa requires proof of employment at a more than minimum wage job, something like a skilled chef, contractor or entry level college grad job qualifies. After two years you can job hop, four years you get a permanent visa, after five you can apply for citizenship.
Requirements at each of these steps is that you can show you have a valid passport, the means to support yourself (and family) financially, are following laws and regulations, and remember to file the paperwork. No tests, no language requirements, just bureaucracy, patience and making a new life.
If you're in a high demand profession, a work visa takes 90 days to get and is valid for at least two years.
This is for my country, you can typically check with the consulate for whatever country you're interested in and they will happily inform you.
Getting a sponsorship to get a work visa in the first place is quite difficult in most EU countries; companies don't want to be on the hook for a foreign worker that doesn't work out for them. In many cases, you need to be able to demonstrate that you can support yourself entirely for a certain number of years before you can even attempt to get some form of permanent residency.
I'd happily sign up for active duty service in Finland--despite my age--if it meant I could move there permanently.
Maybe we can work out a sort of a swap deal? We have all kinds of people believing that the only merit possible is by working late and licking the managers boots. A lot of rightwing nutcases too...
So which country/ies are you aiming for? The language barrier is one reason why people don't just move around that much inside the EU I guess.
Yes, let's trade...lol
Language would be a problem, but I could survive with Spanish, so probably Spain. I could learn other Latin or Germanic languages pretty easily though if needed. I know a little Dutch from a job I had that sent me there a few times and Portuguese or Italian is close enough to Spanish that combined with the English similarities I could pick up eventually. But work requires more than a basic grasp of language, especially if I have to start in the service industry or something. So Spain would probably be the quickest.
The biggest barrier is the requirements for having housing already and having to pay for it while not being in the country while waiting for the Visa. Housing in the US takes half or more of most people's salary. For me it's more and I am a software architect in my late 40s, though I do live on the west coast in a major city which is more expensive. But I don't have a car payment because of public transportation which has allowed me to keep my older cars a lot longer, which doesn't exist in most of the US.
Youtube always shows off all the progressive and positive aspects of Europe. Bike lanes, relable trains. Was so jealous. Then heard that my game buddy is off to manditory milatary service.
The idea that the government can take away a year of your life, and thats normal is still a tough pill to swallow.
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
FIFA is not European, just because its headquarters are there.
The kind of corruption you see there is more typical of South America. And it was a Brazilian who took it from yet another sport to the scale it is now.
That Europe is not ready for many future challenges.
Not sure if we're not ready to hear this. The whole world is not ready for many future challenges.
It's aluminum. Y'all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
I have a vague memory of looking this up and the guy that named it intended it to use the american pronounciation but the european spelling, so fuck that guy I guess?
Yeah and it's pronounced chassis not cHaSsIS!
That capitalisation doesn’t really help, you gotta spell it differently.
Chassee vs chassiss
Welcome to the magic world of etymology in Europe.
The general attitude that "British English is correct" and Americans are wrong, is one of the most absurd things I've ever experienced. English is inconsistent enough as it is, so don't claim your inconsistency of spelling and pronunciation is somehow superior. Believe it or not, withing linguistics you don't make the rules.
Well for one thing, there is that one obvious thing which Americans and everyone else are also unready to hear: You need to give up fossil fuels. No more coal, no more gas, no more petrol, no more diesel. Some parts of Europe like to think they're well on the way to that goal but even there for the most part you've barely begun and are moving too slowly or in the wrong direction (e.g. biofuels). The hard part cannot be put off for much longer.
people being angry at nuclear and wanting to go back to coal are the worst
I'm sad for what's happening over in Germany
Almost all of the nuclear power stations were already at the end of their lifetime anyway.
And it's much cheaper and faster to build renewable energy than nuclear, so that's what we are doing.
If you think nuclear is so great and cheap, look at france, who had to bail out the EDF (company operating all nuclear plants) because it was bankrupt. When the rivers are empty in the summer they have to shut down the plants. And a few years ago they would have had to shut down portions of the country if they hadn't got electricity from other countries because a lot of their reactors were found to have cracks in their vessels.
Shure, we Germans as a whole are still using too much fossil fuels. But the state I live in (Schleswig-Holstein) already produces more renewable electricity than it consumes each year and I also have a lot of solar on my roof and batteries in my basement.
TLDR: Nuclear is a waste of money when renewables are so much cheaper.
Nuclear hater are braindead
EU institutions are just as regulatory captured as everywhere else. The EU bureaucracy is horribly inefficient with tons of unfirable "human drones" making 2x for the same role one does in the the private market, where they just do 1/10x of the work. The only reason EU is not quite as corrupt as USA is ironically because all the competing rich fuckers of each nation are competing with each other's lobbying
It would be wise of them to stop relying on everyone else.
40k in Germany to defend Germans from Russia while Russians are killing Ukrainians.
Clown arrangements like these do make you wonder what's the whole thing is really about.
Both will arm israel to do a genocide though
Popcorn munching...
We have popcorn in Europe too?
Just me :p
It's called: "soccer" !!
Europeans: call a game where you kick ball with foot "football"
Americans: call a game where you throw ball with hands "football"
One of these makes more sense to me... :p
that message may come from us or canada, the rest of the world would side with europe
Hey, don't leave Australia and New Zealand out of club soccer, too. Soccer happens to be the preferred term in most anglophone countries.
Most nations of the world refer to the beautiful game as football, or a derivative thereof. Then there’s that one nation…
hand egg! :p
soccer is an abbreviation of associated football. which apparently had rather upper class implications in the UK and as such the word never caught on with the hoi poloi
The Europeans have had -many- centuries longer to screw -everything- up in -every way- and then, eventually, regret it. A bit. So, like most of us humans, who learn most lessons the hard way, they have finally settled on something they can live with ... and they call it civilization. With pride.
Amongst those living there who don't know all of that history - like most humans - they assume that things got that way reasonably. And brag about it as if it was true.
Unlike the middle East - which has had -millenia- longer to learn - and which was, is, and it seems always will be, screwing everything up in every way. While they all point their fingers elsewhere. And build very large monuments to survive them.
i eat with bare hands
Laicite is illiberal. Leaving aside that it explicitly favors Christianity over other religions, it still violates human rights, specifically free expression.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
The culture of France stems from a long-standing Christian default. In language, dress, behavior, holidays, etc. There's no need to ban "Christian" clothing, for example, because Christian clothing is western clothing and it's everywhere. France can try to use the excuse that these material descendants of older, religious-compliant garments are now "secularized," but Laicite precludes the potential normalization of other cultural influences entering that space in the name of some sort of French cultural purity.
If people want to wear a hijab not because of religion but because it's trendy, would that be different? France says no.
But is that any different than a woman choosing to wear a "secular" skirt or dress long enough that you can't see her ankles just because it looks nice? Do French offices chastise employees if they wear black after someone dies? Do they care as much if someone opts not to wear mixed fabrics, even for religious reasons?
This is why Laicite is flawed, because it only recognizes religions of the "other" as modes of expression while basically giving free reign to Christians to continue expressing their religion because their practices are "normal".
Don't even get me started on the church taxes in Germany.
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I'm from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that's not to say every European is racist and it's not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
I believe everyone is ready to hear anything, they might get angry but that's just the nature of stupidity (since we're on the internet I think I should specify that angry≠disagreeing and vice versa)
I don't think your prompt makes much sense
Europe is a continent, not a state. While the European Union exists, its members are very different.
I've not met anyone in the EU that believes this and I live in the EU.
We are all aware that each country is different, many of us have been in other EU countries.
Like the US! :)
“Why do you call it ‘football’ when they use their hands?” is the least original, least funny joke you could possibly make to an American. Also, there are more kicks in an average American football game than there are in an average rugby game, and you guys call rugby “football”
Who calls rugby "football"? That's the first time I hear about that.
The official name of the Irish national team is IRFU - Irish Rugby Football Union
Maybe its a joke? I dont get it tho
Absolutely not. Rugby averages 35 - 40 kicks per game, way more than the NFL’s number of kicks per game. And while it has football in the official name, you either call it rugby, or its rule variant: union, league or sevens.
Not everyone wants to live in some EU places because those areas are too densely packed. Vienna has been voted the most livable city many years in a row, but most residential areas I saw were filled with apartments, condos or townhomes.
Sounds wonderful.
Hard disagree, lol. Judging by the downvotes, this is what many aren’t ready to hear 😂
I guess you probably also can't imagine going somewhere and not driving there with your car.
I wouldn't mind living in a city with affordable good apartments with good transit connections, in fact I moved to a small city from the surrounding countryside because I couldn't stand driving to the city all the time.
Now I can and do bike almost everywhere because the distances are all small and the bike paths are of acceptable quality.
Yeah, I like sprawling places and country living. I used to describe it as suburban, but that’s the wrong word. People can do as they please, if you like what you like, more power to you. I hope city centers and near by places become more affordable as I know that’s an issue for many.
Get you a house outside of Wien then drive every where!
Except driving was awful because everything is so pedestrian leaning, which is fine actually because EU cities are too densely packed to lean towards more car use. I know that’s by design, and I am okay with people choosing a design they like. I am just saying that I don’t like their design, so I choose to live somewhere else. Simple.
If war breaks out between NATO and Russia, Europe hasn't kept up enough military power to hold the Russians back while waiting for America to come bail them out. Their countries are gonna get hardcore trashed in the process.
Their countries are gonna get hardcore trashed in the process.
russia doesn't even have the best military IN RUSSIA.
their three day special operation has gone over 1000 days so far. 400,000 dead and wounded russians.
pfft. I genuinely hope they make a go at Finland, so the Fins can whip that ass SO FUCKING MUCH, AGAIN.
I dont think you know what ur talking about. Russia couldnt even invade a single country on their own, proven by them trying exactly that and failing miserably.
Yeah, Russia has already taken a lot of the soldiers from the European borders and sent them to Ukraine.
If Putin really was so stupid to attack the EU, the fight would be over quickly, and not because the EU lost.
And now Sweden and Finland are also in NATO.
You do realize EU countries have nukes too, right?
EU countries have nukes too
Russia couldn't even invade one small sovereign nation properly, let alone NATO.
People in the replies not realizing how much support the us has given to Ukraine or how much military capability Ukraine has on its own.
The Euro is just financial imperialism, whereby powerful Eurozone countries get to control the economies of weaker members.
US doller?
And yet those weaker countries (a) want to get into the EU and (b) don't want to leave it. Absolutely nobody is forced to be controlled by France and Germany.
The Euro also brought some positive benefits for its citizens, no longer having to pay bank charges all the time for conversions between francs, lira, marks and so on. Which arguable was the original point, rather than some kind of imperialism.
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
Europeans can be more racist, mention muslims or Romani people.
European democracy is just as bad.
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
What do you mean by this? Because when I look at lists of banned substances and why, or pesticide limits, the EC seems much stricter than the FDA.
European democracy is just as bad.
Have you got a particular country in mind or are you referring to EU elections?
As an European, I think the obscene amount of lobbying we allow to happen around EU institutions is something that makes "European democracy is just as bad" sound reasonable.
I’m referring to the general trend in voting for far right candidates
The politics of Italy, the UK, France, Germany, Hungary, and others all seem close to or worse than the current state of American politics. The only difference is that the US wields a lot more global influence and has no neighbors powerful enough to keep it in check (sorry Canada and Mexico, I still love you). Europe is not doing enough to prevent the spread of its own far-right/neofascist groups and the inevitable erosion of human rights.
FDA
What are you smoking? We don't even have corn syrup in our soda or chlorine in our chickens, no putrasene for chocolate, in Europe we don't even know what tums are which seems to be a common thing to take in the US. We have chemical food dyes but just because they're chemicals - as is everything - doesn't mean they're bad.
I do agree the politics are shit though.
Tums is just calcium carbonate (chalk, basically) and is essentially the same as any other rapid relief antacid tablet. Google tells me that a brand called Rennie is the same thing and is apparently available in much of Europe.
Might be more commonly taken in the US because Americans tend to eat greasy, heartburn-inducing food more often.
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
I'm general or just in certain topics?
Brits are utter CUNTS in this way
Sincerely, a Brit
I’m particular thinking of my time in southern Spain lol
Muslims hated us first though and some of them (that currently live here) want to destroy our civilisation in favour of their barbaric medieval religion, and their continuing growth causes me some concern about when there are enough of them around, and someone has started a sharia party, and all the imams go "you must all now vote for sharia" how many of them will follow that decree (and how many non-muslim useful idiots will too).
Not enough concern for me to start hating or discriminating against them on an individual basis, but everyone's different and some are further down that road than I am.
Sometimes, while seeing discourse about the US, I think our region should try to better align itself with Europe, that stronger connections and cooperation could benefit us both.
Then I see how Europeans get when our name comes up and it's no wonder we're calling China instead. Sure, they don't care about us either, but at least they put on an act and we might get something out of it rather than just racism and neocolonialism.
Really, I'm steadily approaching the point where I wouldn't mind much if you all nuked each other out of existence, much like you wouldn't care if we disappeared either. In the absence of names, no such thing as friends beyond borders.
You all need to just start making English an official language across the EU. Yeah I know that's very American imperialist of me to say, but most of you speak it already anyway and it would make travel and communication so much easier. It feels like you all are insisting on speaking different languages just to pretend you have unique cultures when let's be real, once you welcome McDonalds that ship has sailed.
European and UK universal healthcare is able to exist in it's current form and at it's current cost because the US has private healthcare.
Healthcare Companies give heavy discounts to UK/EU to make extra money, they are fully funded by US payors and thus patients. If US healthcare went public and it ate into profits, and other countries run low on healthcare funds (the NHS, right now), private insurance or more likely, increased taxes, in those countries may be required. The NHS is already considering pay-to-play models.
Note: This is a simplification of lots of details around the international transactions and legislation.
Note 2: Before disagreeing, pick a pharma company and look at their annual report.
Note 3: Clarified form and cost based on an astute commenter below.
Medical goods is around ~12% of healthcare expenditures. Even if US (richest country in the world) pays more they would have to pay insanely much more to subsidize single payer healthcare in the rest of the world.
And why would pharma reduce prices in other parts of the world just because Americans pay more? It's not a charity. They charge what the market will bear. Hepatitis C drugs were incredibly expensive because they prevented much more expensive liver transplants down the road. The market would bear a high price then.
Except that a lot of medical research is funded by governments.
It is true that pharma companies couldn't make as much profit if the US had a working healthcare system, but that doesn't mean they couldn't exist.
For the US, a study was conducted on this showing the industry provides a lot more funding than government: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10349341/
In this cross-sectional study, phased clinical trials of 387 drugs approved between 2010 and 2019 were associated with $8.1 billion of National Institutes of Health (NIH) funding, primarily for clinical research. This amount represents 3.3% of total NIH funding for basic or applied research related to these products and 9.8% to 10.7% of estimated industry costs, including less than 26% of phase 1 or 2 trials and less than 5% of phase 3 trials.
The findings suggest that NIH spending on clinical development focuses on early-stage trials, representing a small fraction of estimated industry spending.
And if we look at the UK, NHS spent 453.56 Pounds on all research in 2024 (Annual Report: https://www.nihr.ac.uk/nihr-annual-report-202223), a tiny amount compared to the US, even without taking the huge inflation issues into account, meaning the US is driving that development.
"Couldn't exist" is fair to call out, though, I should have said "in their current form". I mention taxes would have to increase to cover the costs, but I may not have been clear enough.
I have never heard this before. What would be some good things to look up for more info?
How Ukraine started the war, maybe. Perhaps practicing some reading of links that are informative on geopolitics and not the usual propaganda from Globalists.
Just ran your bullshit through gpt. Generally I agree with it's assessment. Be better doofis
The text presents a claim that universal healthcare systems in the UK and EU rely on the profitability of the US private healthcare system. It argues that healthcare companies offer discounts to UK/EU markets, subsidized by higher payments from US patients, and implies that a shift to public healthcare in the US could destabilize funding models in other countries. Let us examine the key claims:
- US Private Healthcare Subsidizing Universal Systems:
Argument: The claim relies on the idea that pharmaceutical companies and healthcare providers profit heavily in the US, which enables them to sell services and products at lower costs elsewhere.
Analysis: There is some merit to this argument, as the US often pays higher prices for drugs and treatments, which can offset costs in other markets. However, this relationship is not the sole factor enabling universal healthcare in other nations. Structural efficiencies, budget allocation, and lower administrative costs also contribute significantly to the success of universal healthcare systems.
- Impact of US Transitioning to Public Healthcare:
Argument: The text suggests that if US healthcare transitioned to a public model, profits would decrease, affecting the affordability of healthcare in other countries.
Analysis: While a reduction in US profits could impact global pricing strategies for pharmaceutical companies, universal healthcare systems are primarily funded by taxation and national budgets, not by discounts from US profits. The claim oversimplifies the economic dynamics of healthcare funding.
- NHS Considering Pay-to-Play Models:
Argument: It asserts that the UK's National Health Service (NHS) is exploring pay-to-play models due to funding shortages.
Analysis: The NHS has faced financial strain for years, but this is due to domestic issues like underfunding, rising demand, and political choices rather than reliance on US healthcare structures. Any pay-to-play discussions are likely localized responses rather than a reflection of systemic dependence on the US model.
Conclusion: The argument in the text exaggerates the dependence of universal healthcare systems on US private healthcare. While there are interconnections in global healthcare markets, the primary factors enabling universal systems are taxation, public funding, and policy priorities. This analysis suggests the text is reductionist and lacks nuanced consideration of how universal healthcare systems function.
I have 20+ years in healthcare, much of that with payor/pricing, including US to UK. Or, you could trust AI.
In any event, for 1 and 2, GPT confirmed the merit. And these are statements I've personally heard from VPs and up at major pharma companies (that work in pricing). I even mention taxation in my comment, taxes go up if healthcare costs go up and no private system is put in place.
For 3, read a more current article. Assisted dying is the bill on the table right now: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cew2jj94zwyo
