8mo ago

Why there is so much communist propaganda on lemmy?

Even from people that never lived in a communist state

edit: im 17 and i hate communism

350 comments

Lemmy, the social network, started off as a leftist hangout spot.
From the perspective of "Open Source developers who are anti-Reddit pro-Fediverse", it makes a lot of sense for Leftist/Communist and anti-corporation leaning people to hang out.
After all, the more extreme the viewpoint, the more driven to action (ie: write tens-of-thousands of lines of code and release for free) people get. In some regards, its the nature of Open Source + volunteer effort to attract a more extreme ideology. IE: Free Software is driven by ideology, not by money. So you get ideological people, especially when the software is small and niche.
The July 2023 Reddit Blackout was a big challenge for Lemmy's old community and the new community, as the new community basically "invaded" a large scale leftist hangout spot. But hopefully we all learn to work together and the nature of our neighbors moving forward.
I think anyone here (likely everyone?) is at least on the anti-corporate anti-Reddit side of the discussion. Which is enough of an alliance to keep us together, for now.
It does mean that we'll have to keep up with the far-left old-timers on this network who wish to push their viewpoints. But they are the legacy and the start of Lemmy in some respects, even as the hypergrowth (starting in July 2023) has moderated the community pretty severely.
- I don’t see the problem with people having communist views…capitalism isn’t great.
  
  Yeah, the problem is that you have instances like Hexbear and Lemmy.ml that tread more into tankie territory, where if you argue anything less than the complete annihilation of the West and hail China, you're likely to get harassed. I think rational people can agree that there's a pretty gap between "The current system is corrupt" and "anyone who thinks differently than me should die,' but I've seen plenty of irrational leftists.
  
  I mean, I don't have much problem with people disagreeing with me. But I'm pretty openly pro-capitalist, though I'm not a dumbass libertarian.
  I recognize the need for the "capitalist edge cases" (externalities, monopolies, etc. etc.) that must be regulated and fixed for the system to work. I also recognize that we've failed to regulate externalities (ex: CO2 emissions), and failed to regulate monopolies / anticompetitive behavior (see Google).
  So I'm a "capitalism works, but only if we work to make it work" kind of person. I think at the moment, Reddit and many other social networks are falling into the well known and well studied failures of raw capitalism, but somehow today's society has forgotten all the 1910s era solutions that we did (ex: Jungle, etc. etc.) where we regulated the hell out of the shitty behavior and fixed the most blatant problems, for the better of America.
  We just gotta do the same thing today.
  Overall, I accept that the commies / tankies were here first, and the history of Lemmy makes it clear why that happened.
  
  A leftist world view is the correct world view in my book. What I can't stand are people who defend Russia and China.
  
  In my experience in lemmy these same people have a very big problem with you not sharing their communist views
  
  My problem with communist views is they're unproven and have only lead to authoritarian governments when put into play.
  Capitalism has regularly gone off the rails ... but not to the degree communism has. Capitalism has been defending democracy for the last few centuries, not communism.
  These are the nations that identify as communist:
  China (PRC)
  Cuba
  Laos
  North Korea (DPRK)
  Vietnam
  These countries were previously communist and (of that has that) have pretty much only improved since transitioning to democracy with capitalist economic systems:
  Afghanistan
  Albania
  Angola
  Benin
  Bulgaria
  Congo
  Czechoslovakia
  Ethiopia
  Germany (GDR)
  Grenada
  Hungary
  Kampuchea
  Mongolia
  Mozambique
  Poland
  Romania
  Somalia
  Soviet Union
  Tuva
  Yemen (PDRY)
  Yugoslavia
  That's not to say that capitalism doesn't have its problems, people here aren't angry with it over nothing. However, if you really look at the problems it's had, they all come down to voter manipulation and/or apathy "things are going good, why do I need to worry about politics?".
  We didn't just wake up with weakened labor unions, weakened voter rights, weakened infrastructure, etc; we got their because of generations of apathy and frankly electing the wrong people. People that cut taxes, asked "are you better off today than you were four years ago?" (short term gain), allowed our unions to be broken up, allowed jobs to be exported over seas to communist China (which is now one of the greatest international threats), bought the cheapest products (from mom and dad at the store to the executives running major corporations) without asking why they're cheap, etc.
  The "common people" cast the votes that ultimately lead to corporations being people. The "middle class" cost votes that ultimately lead to the middle class shrinking.
  I think it's naive that communism somehow automatically makes those problems go away/means we'll never end up with similar problems. Especially when communist countries are consistently doing worse/falling into authoritarian rule.
  We need to expand our social programs, reign in our billionaires, and reign in our corporations and we'd be a lot better off. Capitalism works so long as you don't let anyone or anything get "too big to fail." Capitalism doesn't have to be capitalism without limits. The reigns of power will always be challenged no matter what system we find ourselves under, only an educated vigilant population can stop that.
- I think anyone here (likely everyone?) is at least on the anti-corporate anti-Reddit side of the discussion.
  I don't particularly have any problem with Reddit beyond the fact that (a) I don't like their "new" Web UI and (b) the fact that one of the moves that they made to monetize their service was to ban third-party clients, which is a tradeoff that I'm not willing to make.
  I mean, I was expecting that at some point, Reddit was going to have to have to shift from growth to monetization. I just didn't agree with the particular tradeoff that they chose to make.
  
  Are you okay with the advertising? That's another thing that I find unacceptable.
- What are you on about? "its the nature of Open Source + volunteer effort to attract a more extreme ideology"? Aside from your first sentence, this is just baseless word salad.
  
  I mean just that.
  Open source developers are not paid in money. One of the other major motivators is ideology, so that becomes a major motivator in practice.

Multiple reasons.
Lemmy was crested by and is maintained by Marxist-Leninists.
Lemmy's structure and rejection of the Profit Motive is in line with Communist ideals, and attracts Communists and other leftists over Reddit, which is Capitalist.
FOSS in general is supported by Communists and Anarchists.
- This is basically the most serious answer
- FOSS is strongly supported by communists, but there's also strong support for it from right-libertarians (when I was younger I remember the stereotype being that Linux users believed taxation was theft)
  (I agree that the way FOSS operates is anarcho-communist in nature; I just think people with fringe politics are more likely to support FOSS in general)
- Point 3 is true for almost any group you can think of. Communists, anarchists, Baptists, disestablishmentarians, etc., for any large group of people of course some of them will advocate for FOSS.
  
  some of them
  Implying that not all communists and anarchists are FOSS-advocates
  We are, for obvious reasons

Be careful where you tread here. You must be careful to separate "communists" (people who believe in economic reorganization away from the power of capital) and "tankies" (those who support corrupt regimes that project the illusion of communism).
There are indeed quite a few communists and various other alt-camp political spectrum believers on here. They do have quite liberal beliefs but don't typically cause much of a fuss, because rational people can coexist with differing beliefs... and i dont mind them one bit. But the tankes, like lemmygrad, hexbear, etc, do stir up an anti-west "commie propaganda"fuss every chance they get, without being related to actual communism, especially if one mentions a hot button like Israel or Ukraine. And if you get into an argument with a tankie, they will just sling mud on you and call you a Nazi.
The cool part is, you can filter a lot of the chaff by just blocking the ugly instances from your user settings page (since Lemmy supports that now), blocking frequent flyers, and trimming/moving your subscribed community list to other, often smaller instances. A minimal amount of effort VASTLY increases the quality of content you'll see on lemmy.
- There are very few real communists left. On here, it’s going to be pretty much all tankies.
  
  There are dozens of us!
  
  I'd definitely describe myself as a communist, but I do realize we never had a proper communist state on this planet, just authoritarian states that acted like communists to win over the workers. Capitalism needs to be regulated as fuck to create a fair society, so for now, I strive for socialism, because I understand going straight to communism probably won't work.
  Sorry if this was uncalled for, I just wanted to show there are sensible communists who don't excuse Russia and China for the shit they're pulling. But neither do I excuse the west for a lot of shit we are pulling.
  
  Yeah, unfortunate but true...
  
  Global news communities in instances like beehaw or lemmy.world seem to have predominantly communist and leftist posters. The nazbols congregate on their own famous three instances.
- "It wasn't real socialism!!1!" lmao
  This is the position you get when you understand capitalism is fucked but you still believe capitalist states' propaganda about socialist revolutions that have actually managed to successfully overthrow the capitalist class, which gets worse the more those states have managed to rival and threaten capitalist rule globally.
- This is communism, more or less how I understand it

Leaves platform enshittified by capitalism
Complains about people being communists
Bruh
- Yes, but it was not enshittified by capitalism, instead it was the evil corporation that wanted more money
  
  🤣
  
  You’re hilarious. Is this a bit? This has to be a bit.
  
  What?? 😭 😭 😭

I think it’s because my rent is a third of my income and im not allowed to function without not only feeding the parasites but making them morbidly obese.
- Rent is only a third of your income? You lucky bastard.
  
  you lucky lucky bastard
  
  Half for me :(
- so first you choose these parasites and then you hate them? How unfortunate...
  
  Sadly I was born in the world in which they had a massive head start and already own a lot of apartments making it more difficult for me to own one. Ever played monopoly? Thats what it’s actually about.
  
  First you choose to be a wage slave and then you hate your bosses?
  
  It's not really a choice. If you don't want to be on the streets then you have two options: buy or rent. (There is a third: squatting, but that has its own downsides.) Presumably riodoro1 can't buy (or has chosen not to for some other reason) and doesn't want to be homeless or a squatter.

American says communism and means socialism
- the hardest test for any American
  define communism
  define propaganda
  use both in a sentence that applies to the agreed definitions
  
  How would you define communism? I hear so many different definitions and find it hard to differentiate which one is accurate.
- American says communism and means conservative democrat or Trump Republican, depending on who is saying it.
  AES barely even registers, except for the occasional "Why don't you move to Vuvuzela!"
  
  Why isn’t anyone defending AEC countries?
- I've always seen communism as a subclass of socialism, where socialism is the goal of classless, stateless society in which the public owns the means of production and distribute based on needs. Whereas communism is a way of attaining this goal, characterized by its materialistic focus and being revolutionary.
  I know this differs from a lot of other uses for the terminology, but is there really a single definition of socialism that rules over the others (or communism for that matter, and does it even matter since they describe different important things)?
  
  You literally have it backwards. Communism in the context of a definition of society is the classless state. Socialism is the transitory stage (also known as a dictatorship of the proletariat).
  Reminder that this is specifically when talking about state/society. If you are mentioning ideology then a communist person or a socialist might have significant diversion of views/goals. Yes, it can be confusing.
  
  Are you American?
- No, there are outright communists on Lemmy. This is an accurate take.
  
  Are you American?

I've lived all my life under capitalism and I hate it.
I've read Marx, (for real, grab the book and read it!) and I see the dude does have a point.
- The Communist Manifesto
  The language can be a bit tough to understand these days though so might want to read Ted Reese's Socialism Or Extinction instead
  
  I'd recommend Chris Harman's How Marxism Works for an intro, or Engels' Principles of Communism. The Manifesto is more of a call to action for Workers than an overview of Communism, though it's still an important work nonetheless.
- How someone can downvote two subjective statements of opinion (hates capitalism, sees a point in a book) is beyond me. There's nothing to downvote here. It's an opinion, not a statement of fact that is incorrect.
  People misuse downvotes.
  
  That's an easy question to answer. People often downvote comments that waste their time. Opinions that have no basis, or that are based on bad definitions or falsehoods, those tend to get downvoted. Because there's nothing to learn and nothing to discuss.
- I thought the same many years ago, until I saw how it went for every single country that implemented communism and then I didnt like it so much. You all seriously think is a coincidence?
  
  Not really surprising, it’s complicated to make progress when every world power has it out for you.
  
  You gotta look the context and learn about geopolitics. If Communism is so bad why the USA need to keep interfering with Cuba?
  Lets compare Cuba with other Caribbean islands, how they perform against those? Remember they are blocked by the strongest country in the world.
  Cuba developed its own covid vaccine, cuba sends doctors to africa in order to help people there, when Italia was in a health crisis Cuba sent thousands of doctors.
  Cuba has the most advanced and inclusive family laws in the world.
  Edit: btw Awesome album and Lemmy was an Anarchist.
  
  I don’t blame the chef when I can’t understand the recipe. I learn what the ingredients are.
- I strongly recommend you to read Animal Farm, it's very easy to understand
  
  You mean Orwell's classic anti-capitalist novel wherein a worker's rebellion against tyrannical bosses is betrayed by capitalist pigs who re-create the farm's original conditions for their own profit?
  You should read his "Homage to Catalonia", Orwell fought against capitalists in Spain's civil war and wrote a book about his experiences there.
  
  oh you are 17. When I was 17 I also was just like you.
  
  I’ve read it.
  Orwell was socialist my dude.
  Ever read one of his other books Down and Out in Paris and London?
  It helps explain why he is a socialist.
  
  I recommend actually reading Marx and Lenin, and not fictitious allegories about strawmen
  
  I recommend you learn from real books about real life like those of Marx and Lenin, not fiction.
  
  I did and it is stupid propaganda.

Probably has something to do with leaving a platform because it turned into a capitalist shithole?

I'm beginning to see why people call lemmy.world the Reddit of the fediverse
- It's a microcosm of Reddit, in a lot of bad ways IMO.
  Reddit is clearly declining due to enshittification, so more ideological types leave. Radical liberals, Marxists, Anarchists, and so forth leave for other places.
  Leftists and people who have more niche interests like programming, Linux, FOSS, Piracy, Star Trek, LGBTQIA+, or other such unique interests go to more specific instances, while people seeking a replacement for Reddit go to the largest generalist instance.
  The consequences of 1 and 2 are that Lemmy.world is filled with ideological liberals, but typically not leftists, FOSS enthusiasts, Piracy nerds, Star Trek, or other unique interests. All that's left is the ideological generalist crowd, which is an echo chamber more defined by what it isn't than by what it is.
  
  May the foss be with you.
- Maybe lemmy.world will have ads and NFTs at some point too lol

why not? if you'd like a more capitalist experience you can always go to reddit. don't forget to download their shitty app that no longer has competitors.
- They don't want reddit but want its liberal echo chamber lmao
- Lol you just provided the simplest counter to the most common capitalist argument.
  "You don't understand capitalism, bro. The problem isn't capitalism, it's the regulation on capitalism. Under a true capitalist system, there can't be monopolies because capitalism rewards competition."
  Ok so what happened to all the reddit apps
  Edit: I really like the reddit app example because it's simple: no regulation or anti-capitalist force made them to that, it was literally just a capitalist decision.
  But regulatory capture is an important part of capitalism, and no matter how many ancap bullshit artists say otherwise, government is absolutely part of the capitalist plan. Giving the workers a "say" (or the illusion of one) keeps them a bit quieter, but more importantly, having a government outsources a lot of crap they would otherwise have to pay for, like infrastructure, which would be a huge strain on profits.
  In fact, the ancap bullshit idea that unregulated markets would improve things is an artificial limitation on capitalist power. Total lack of regulation is a restriction on capitalism.

Because there's nothing wrong with being communist, and yet most of western civilization publicly demonizes communism and anyone who espouses communist views. Given the freedom to share an idea without fearing ad hominem attacks, ideas are judged on their merits alone.
See also: Satanism, Atheism, Socialism.
- The issue that every "communist" when pushed will take position on atrocities committed by various communists regimes... they gonna do that thing that "fascists" do: "well he really did not do it but if he did, they clearly deserved it"
  Tell that to east Asians or Europeans to their face... everyone is deff hard online tho.
  
  I find that liberals are much more dismissive of US atrocities. Most communists I speak to know a wealth of details about the failings of mao and stalin.
  Ask a US conservative about our 20th and 21st century atrocities - torture, massacres, coups, support for genocidal regimes and ecocidal companies, etc. - and they'll proudly defend our brutality. Ask a liberal and they'll hedge, deny and justify like an internet tankie who's never opened a history book.
  
  That hasn't been my experience at all. Sure, there are nationalists who will defend their own favorite Communist^(TM) Regime, but an ideological believer in communism is just that.
  
  every “communist” when pushed will take position on atrocities committed by various communists regimes… they gonna do that thing that “fascists” do: “well he really did not do it but if he did, they clearly deserved it”
  I have never encountered that argument. Is that something Tankies say?
  What I have seen is the often mocked argument, that these regimes were not communist in the first place.
  Actual communism has never existed and probably never will.
  There are however plenty of communists that will openly denounce stalinism. That is the entire premise of Animal Farm, btw.
- There's nothing wrong with communism or being communist, correct. But what we know for fact is that the human species is incompatible with communism, moreso as the population is increased. There is, by nature, traits within that are antagonistic with communism. Communism has failed every time. Our best efforts so far are embracing some communist ideals whilst pandering around with others.
  Will we get there? Probably.
  Within this era? Hell no. We've only just started evolving an adaption to a shrinking planet and working with neighbours. However, as you know we're still very divided, tribalistic, and prone to taking whatever advantages we can get. This is, after all, how we got to be number 1 and millions of years of evolution can't be stifled or changed in mere generations.
  This is the realisation most people have during year 3 or 4 of the college communist phase. You accept the reality of Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm, that human nature is why we can't have nice things...yet. I reckon around 2100–2150, after we've been through some more shit together and wanked another world war out of our system.
  Will it last? Probably not lol.
  
  But what we know for fact is that the human species is incompatible with communism
  Sorry what? How on earth would such a thing even be established as fact? This is a very bold claim.
  Communism has failed every time.
  I'm always really interested in what people mean when they say this. Is it that no organisation that has tried has managed to realise the utopia Marx predicted? Is it that they tend to lose wars with the USA? Is it that great suffering has occurred?
  What is a system that has not failed? Like it's pretty apparent whatever we're doing now isn't working. We're in a mass extinction, the climate is destabilising, homelessness and sickness exist alongside people that personally own jet aircraft.
  Genuinely I would love to know what specifically you mean because I see this a lot and it confuses the hell out of me.
  Hopeful aside btw. Lord of the flies basically happened once except the kids all banded together and helped each other because humans are actually extremely pro social. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months
  
  Unironically "why didn't Marx think of human nature lol"
  Actually read a book and stop trying to sound like a smartass asserting stuff on the basis of "it feels true".

If you want capitalist propaganda you can go back to reddit lol

The first instance of Lemmy is lemmy.ml
The ML stands for Marxist-Leninists
- I mean, its actually the country tld of Mali
  
  Yeah, but that's not why it's being used by those instances.
  
  And .af is Afghanistan, .tv is Tuvalu, and .ai is Anguilla.
  But .af is used for "As fuck", .tv is used for media, and .ai is used for sketchy startups jumping on a bandwagon after they didn't get rich off of blockchain/crypto.
  
  Could be both.

Because there are a lot of communists on lemmy?
Some can be very annoying. If you haven't blocked hexbear, I highly recommend it. They got exiled from reddit years ago and have been stewing in a tankie echo chamber ever since.
- Hexbear aren't communists, they're just using it as a facade to spread propaganda.
- They got exiled from reddit years ago
  Huh, just like everyone else here
  It's weird rather that some people are such bootlickers that they complain about people being socialists/communists after leaving a platform because of capitalism
  
  I complained about them being annoying and tankies.
  
  I chose to migrate.
- 90% of the shit spouted about Hexbear is just baseless nonsense. Soon as you actually try to have a good faith discussion, they're hecka cool.
  
  Not when I tried it. When shw federated, I tried for about 2 days to talk about stuff. But they kept defending Russia in it's invasion of Ukraine with super brain dead arguments and holding up North Korea as a shinning example of communism. Plus at the ends of threads, they often just respond with poop emojis. Or even at the beginning of threads. That's just annoying.
  Edit: oh and defending or denying China's treatment of the Uyghur was also common.
  
  They're abrasive kinda like Twitch Chat, but many are reasonable.

Well, it was created by "communists."

“I’m 17 and I hate communism”
😂 enough said. Come back when you’re a bit older and a bit wiser.
- Let’s not be condescending and ageist. I was well into my ‘40’s when I even entertained learning about socialism or communism. We all have to start sometime.
- I’m 52 and I hate communism. Whatcha got now?
- You don't even have to be wise to understand the problems communism has, it only helps
  So your comment doesn't make sense.
  
  What problems does Communism have?

When you leave reddit, a corporatised and astroturfed bot farm you're gonna get less liberal and right wing stuff that only existed to make money or exert political influence.
If you're really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.
- Tbf reddit used to be a lot more lefty. Back when Shit Reddit Says was the dominant subculture it was a lot of fun... But then Steve Bannon wanted Trump to be president and SRS lost the war against red hats and bots.
- Also lemmy.dbzer0.com since its admin rightfully hates liberals. And lemmy.world admins have already blocked !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com lol
  I'd rather OP just goes back to reddit though honestly. There are already a surprising amount of capitalist bootlickers on Lemmy for an open source platform
  
  It's okay for people with bad takes to be here too - that's why the fediverse is special
- If you’re really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.
  That's true for you, anyway, because your instance is defederated from lemmygrad and hexbear.
- You can also block certain users who won't stop harping on one subject

This has to be the greatest troll I've ever seen or else I'm a filthy commie.

We don't have democracy either, we live under plutocracy of Capital, a bourgeoise dictatorship.
- Who is "we" in this case?
  
  Everyone who's not in an uncontacted tribe.

It is a communist platform, you will find communists

"I'm 14 and very edgy."
- Sounds like you probably are
- Ah yes wanting a better system not built on the capitalist exploitation of the working-class is "edgy"
  Do you even know what you're talking about?
  
  Found them!

Communism is by definition a society without a state, so nobody has ever lived in a communist state and I doubt there has ever been a communist society in recorded history.
- Communism is by definition a society without a state, so nobody has ever lived in a communist state
  The last stage of the Marxist evolution of communism involves the decay of state institutions through neglect, as they become redundant in a post-scarcity no-cops Utopia.
  But there are a bunch of prior stages (including capitalist industrialization even!) that are neglected. And even then, the utopian end-game is routinely disputed by the subsequent generations of Leninists and Maoists who believe we will never truly escape the revolutionary cycle.
  There absolutely are Already Existing Socialist states attempting to move themselves from primitive accumulation, through industrial capitalism, and into a collectively governed socialist post-scarcity society. And people absolutely are living in them. And none of them are Utopian (although the quality of life in many of these countries is exhaustively propagandized to be by degrees to be between Unbearably Hellish and FALGSC-adjacent).
  The problems that these countries typically have, however, aren't ones that armchair communists on a niche western internet platform are capable of solving. You're not going to break the Cuban blockade. You're not going to settle the endless territorial disputes plaguing Vietnam. You're not going to undo the legacy of generations of apartheid in South Africa overnight. You're not going to Make the USSR Great Again.
  So maybe save yourself some angst and stop trying to tell Nicholas Maduro and Kim Jung Un how to do their jobs. Maybe worry more about why your local chapter of the DSA can't get a teacher's union off the ground.
  
  You’re not going to break the Cuban blockade. You’re not going to settle the endless territorial disputes plaguing Vietnam. You’re not going to undo the legacy of generations of apartheid in South Africa overnight. You’re not going to Make the USSR Great Again.
  So maybe save yourself some angst and stop trying to tell Nicholas Maduro and Kim Jung Un how to do their jobs
  All these "you"s make me think that you might addressing me personally.
  I make no claim to solve anything, nor how anyone should do their job.
  I have provided an (incomplete) explanation as to what communism is, why it does not actually exist in practice and why therefore people commenting cannot be from a communist state.
- Comminism isn't anarchic, Anarcho-Communism is. While it's true that Communism has never been reached, it isn't because government remained. The State in Marxian terms refers to the mechanisms by which one class oppresses the other, once class is abolished there need not be a state.
  Communism was always meant to be a world republic.
  
  Communism was always meant to be a world republic.
  I don't see any other way for communism to exist. Any other remaining nation states would eventually try to expand into the stateless territory.
  
  Anarcho Syndicalist Commune
- That is at a 'state' level, there are still smaller level communist places to live. Like where the word 'Commune' comes from and what communism was derived from and attempted to expand into. There are communes all over the world. US included. There is a famous one in London, lots of large ones in Spain. They are communities that exist in their own bubble of micro economics within their larger communities of normal living. You should look it up. They are interesting and normally very appealing.
  
  I mean, OP asked specifically why comments don't come from
  people that never lived in a communist state
  So I addressed the non-existence of communist states.
  True, there can be smaller communist societies but I think OP was asking more on a USSR level scale and not 12 hippies living on a farm together.
  
  Comminism, along Marxist lines, is meant to have a World Repunlic. It will have a government, but not a state.
  Communes are more along Anarchist lines.

im 17
me too
i hate communism
I don't care about this type of stuff on Lemmy. I love Cat, Linux, FOSS and Game. Lemmy have all of them.
- GNU/Linux is all about Communism lol
  
  I know but I don't care. Communism have pro and cons like other system. But it's slightly better than other if it executed correctly. That's all I know. Please don't ban me

You're blaming communism for what is, like everything else, a people problem. It doesn't matter what system you're talking about, there's always bad actors and horrible people that you can point to and say "see? That's why it's bad!"
Also, you are 17 and only really have the knowledge that you have been taught, and minimal experience living in the larger world. Most everything far you have learned has been what others have wanted you to learn. Once you get into the real world for a decade or two and start experiencing a full life, your views will change.
Or you can resign yourself to a life in front of cable news and stay firmly locked into an opinion that others have given you.
- I’m 52. Communism sucks.

I haven't seen any communist propaganda at all but I've read many comments and posts like this... Are they just referring to leftwing content?
- Oh, there's definitely a ton of communist propaganda, did you block .ml?
  Do you consider anarchism/democratic socialism to not be communist at a certain level, ie, consider "communist" thought only to include authoritarian Marxism?

Just block the hexbear.net and lemmy.ml instance subs that show up in ALL, and it makes a much more pleasant experience
- They still spread their shit in political communities.

Not that I've noticed. Plenty of "why this pro-consumer thing is bad for consumers, we should leave power to big corps" blog and news posts tho

Do you even know what communism actually is? I mean do you know where it came from, and why?
If you're 17 and in America, there isn't a lot of hope that you have been told about this in a non-biased manner. Young people especially are susceptible to the ideology that they can make it in life through hard work and equal opportunities. You might even already have felt some success in this regard, was able to achieve a goal because you worked for it. And it all makes sense to you.
And you think, In some way or another, that communist are perverting this, maybe by giving away shit for nothing or worse want to take shit from you.
But that's not true.
Socialism wants you to fully get your complete value of your labour for you, instead of most of it going to a boss who didn't work. And communist want to make sure that the system doesn't allow for bosses to make decisions about the conditions workers live in.

Especially people who never lived in a communist state
- Part of the problem is capitalist regimes keep sending assassins to murder leaders of communist movements, such as FBI killing the Black Panther leaders.
  Law enforcement in the US is harassing mutual aid organizations. Maybe they're afraid we'll repair the park fences and deny some business a choice government contract?
  
  While you're not wrong, it's important to retain a global perspective. There are "communist" leaders that were total pieces of shit and while they did have help, that help wasn't always capitalist. Stalin is an example here.
  And then there's pieces of shit who were supported by external forces, but not by capitalist regimes seeking to undermine them. I'm not 100% confident in this history, and there's no way I'm going to spell his name right, but, the Romanian piece if shit, Caucescu (???) came to power riding a wave of support from the Nazis. Hitler didn't do it to destabilize Romania, but because he was like, "there's some good old fashioned fascist genociders down there, let's give them more guns." And those fascist genociders were technically communists.
  What I'm getting at is that the enemies of a worker-ruled communist state are many, and many of those enemies are within their own systems. Communism, like every other system, suffers from the fact that there are humans involved. Just because a communism exists doesn't mean it's going to be utopia.
  But that also doesn't mean that communism can't be good, or at least better.
- Sure I'll just go in my alt-history time travel machine and be born in a communist state. Sorry for suggesting we improve things somewhat?
  
  You should go into your alt history time machine and realize how shitty it is living under communism. Why do you think every country bordering Russia hates them so much?
  
  Or just go to north korea or cuba and see how they live
  
  You don't even need to travel in time to feel the communist spirit, just go to any post-soviet country and see the reality for yoursef.
- Especially people who never lived in a communist state
  That’s a rather impossible requirement, considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies that were just as much about communism as they were democratic.
  Real communism is market ownership by the people, and not some elite cabal of politicians or capitalists. And a top-down planned economy is pretty much anti-communism, as it violates the very fundamentals of communism as being worker-driven.
  
  I don't spend a lot of time promoting communism, but I do talk a lot of shit about capitalism - I've lived in it. Of course when I criticise capitalism people accuse me of promoting communism and having never lived in it.
  
  I think you should read Marx. State planning is definitely in line with Communism, the state is of the Workers and not a separate entity in Socialism and Communism.
  
  considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies
  And you think that is a coincidence?

Dunno about communist unless you count the tankies which I don't see on the main instances.
Lots of socialist stuff though.
- Socialism — the dictatorship of the working-class — is the transitional mode of production between capitalism — the dictatorship of the capitalist class — and the stateless, classless mode of production that is communism. You can't really separate the two.
  
  Thats the communist definition of socialism. Socialism originally just referred to the leftist movement as a whole (including anarchists and dem-socs, which i guess he refers to). And is also used to refer to the concept of workers owning the means of production

That’s just a distraction. The real question is why are there so many articles about heat pumps?
- Why aren't there more?

I don't think its possible to be on social media of any kind without encountering propaganda of some kind. what frustrating about news nowadays is more the stuff that is not an outright lie. just leaves out things and lines things up for a particular narrative. So you can't be like. This right here is an outright lie (I mean oftentimes you can but not always) and instead have to be like. this ignores this or does not take this into account. etc.

You apparently don't like getting up votes either.

Why do you hate communism?
Nobody has ever actually done real communism on a national scale. The closest is probably the USSR, but that was a disaster because it was an authoritarian dictatorship that funneled money and power to the top. People only got token representation, the people were not actually in charge of anything, they got no real say in their leadership. Doesn’t matter that it was structured like communism says it should be, the reality of it was anything but communism.
Real communism would probably be pretty decent. There wouldn’t be too much to hate about it other than what you’d dislike in any government.
The problem is the humans running it. It’s a constant battle against power-hungry and self-serving people being in charge, just like any government, and no nation espousing communism has ever managed to prevent authoritarianism and basic kleptocratic people from settling in and running the show.
I am not for communism or here to espouse any virtues it might have. The concept of communism certainly has appeal and presents many benefits, however the reality of implementation and human nature virtually guarantee it will never achieve its intended form.
- Real communism will never work for the same reason a completely free market would never work.
  Too many people are greedy and selfish.
  
  That’s pretty much what I just said? Except you mentioned free market…
  
  People are shaped by their environment, people seem greedy and selfish because of Capitalism. Primitive communism existed for thousands of years, and people were cooperative and communal.
  Why do you believe selfish and greedy people existing in Communism would strain or ruin it?

Lmao you don't have proper political opinions at 17
- I don't think that's necessarily true. Tons of young people are communists. OP being politically illiterate doesn't have to be for their age, though that's likely part of it.
  
  Tons of young people are communists?
  Source?
- why not?
  
  Way too little life experience
  
  Your endocrine system hasn't even let go of the controls in your brain yet. Don't let a guy who is so prone to substance abuse make important decisions. Once the night shift takes over a lot of your "airtight and very clever" philosophies will seem simple, trite and one dimensional.
  One day you'll be in the shower getting ready to start your day. Nothing particularly significant will have occurred to you the day before, but the "perspective shift" happens and all of a sudden, you won't know why you ever felt the way you used to. Scary as shit, comes out of the blue, and definitely doesn't happen to us all. But it's a cool achievement to unlock and lets you respec for a conceptualization bonus.
  If that does happen, I hope you remember this thread and have replay. See if you are still the same you as you were.
- I’m 52 and I think communism sucks. Do I not have a proper political opinion at my age? Because if all it takes to know better is to be older than-

If you intend to get informed or do any sort of political discussion on lemmy I'm afraid that's not possible. They're as radicalized as can be
I just resorted to blocking every political sub, including the ones masquerading as non political. Like every news sub
- ok, so which instances do i need to block to not feel cringe every day browsing lemmy?
  
  Frankly I just blocked sub by sub and user by user because otherwise you might lose out on non political content.
  Basically every time you see a sub that's full of political content you block the sub and if you see a political post of a sub that is mostly ok you just block the OP
  Afaik there are specific instances where most of these users gather but I didn't go that route because I wanted to avoid blocking legitimate stuff as much as possible

Would you mind telling me what communism is? Like, you don't have to quote Marx, or go into deep detail; I'm just curious about what you think it is.
I'm a capitalist (but not a laissez-faire capitalist), so I'm not trying to trap you with pedantry.

Probably because communism > capitalism and on capitalist channels like corporate social media or MSM, this type of ideology is muted by default for obvious reasons

If under communism everything is shared, that would have to include political power.
So that would make communism a direct democracy. Which communist country was a direct democracy?
- No. Most communists don't think everything is or should be shared. One basic distinction is personal property vs. private property. If you do a web search and spend 10-15 minutes reading, you can learn how various groups think this ought to work.
  (Even if you dislike communism, it's still worth learning what you're talking about.)
- Whoa, whoa, definitions have no power here.

Because fascists are mostly content with gobbling Fox News cock.
- Why are we getting homophobic?
  
  Gobbling cock is great. Fox News cock, though? Have some standards.
  
  I don't observe any homophobia in that comment. Their statement is that fascists submit to anything Fox News says, and makes no remarks about oral sex beyond the graphic metaphor. Also fascist is a genderless term so there is no way to know if the fascist is gobbling on same or opposite gender cock.
  
  Why'd you assume it was gay?
  
  Oh, there's plenty of fem fascists out there too.

If you've never lived in a communist state you're much more likely to favour communism. People who have (lived in communism) don't.
'Mercans believe that social healthcare is communism - until they get seriously ill whereupon they opt for moving to a 'communist' country: UK or Canada or go for the US healthcare provider called gofundme.
- If you’ve never lived in a communist state you’re much more likely to favour communism. People who have (lived in communism) don’t.
  Gallup, 2013: Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup
  Pew Research, 2017: In Russia, nostalgia for Soviet Union and positive feelings about Stalin
  United Nations, 2019: Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding
  Newsweek, 2022: Americans Can Now Expect to Live Three Years Less than Cubans
  
  A state that prioritizes capitalist profit over worker interests is worse for the people?? Who could've seen this coming :0
  The capitalist takeover of the former USSR is one of the greatest tragedies of the last few decades. Both for those countries, and for the global socialist movement. The modern capitalist Russia has no reason to support and fund socialist movements like they used to (like in Palestine, Vietnam, DPRK, Cuba, Bangladesh etc)
  
  That's an amazing set of references to throw my way. Thank-you. I'll read through them in a while. My assertion was based on talking to real people: I'm only just not-Russian myself.
  I don't really think you've captured communism: Cuba isn't. China has been moving away from communism for decades. Russia rejected the Communists for the Bolsheviks shortly after the revolution. There's a huge difference between socialism and communism.
  The West is in somewhat of a hard time. There's a left shift going on since my golden days (as Gen X). Young people (Gen Z) rightly feel hard done by and the social mobility seems to have been damaged. It feels like the sodding seventies again here in Blighty ( I hadn't even become a teenager when they ended but remember the mood and despair. Candles lighting the supermarket visits. Dead bodies of the unburied and the rats).

Clowns think they can beat Mao and Stalin on genociding dissidents and undesirables.
- Yes that is a good example of a communist regime

Nazi, get out of our community
- Why are you calling him Nazi... Damn, I was gone from Lemmy for 4 months and came back to this childish shit. I'm out again.
  
  Get out

I dislike communism but most communists actually obsess over things that matter due to having terminally Kantian thought processes. I'd rather post in an environment like that than one filled with barely sentient slop consumers who just believe things

Guys please check the list of the communist countries and come back to me to tell if you want to live in there, ok?
- Desiring Communism isn't because people overwhelmingly desire one form of production over another, the draw is for what these modes of production allow for and who they benefit.
  It'd be cool to live in an AES country, sure, but what would be even better is to transition existing Capitalist states towards Socialism. Having more international trade between like-minded Socialist countries would benefit these countries massively.
- Yeah, I do. My wife lives in China as we speak, in fact. Why would I not want to live in one of the safest countries on earth with the highest level of automation, easily accessible and cheap housing and food, mandated workers democracy, and high speed rail to and from nearly everywhere of note?
  Have you ever been to China? It’s better than the US in many, many ways. I make 4x the minimum wage in my state and can’t afford a one bedroom apartment. My wife makes min wage in her province and can afford her own place. I can’t afford to get medical care even with nice insurance because it’s a scam, my wife got daily IV treatments at a high quality clinic for three weeks for under $300 without insurance. She works today (International Workers Day) and is receiving triple overtime pay for it. I could literally go on for hours.
  You’re young, don’t be so self-assured.
  
  I heard that people work a lot and don't have a choice, and enjoy the iron fist of Xi Jinping
  
  Fucking hell.
  "one of the safest countries on earth".
  \ Yeah, the country where you get beaten and tortured if you don't agree with the State.
  China isn't fucking communist, it's at best an authoritarian socialist government with a LARGE class gap between the party and the people.
  \ The other shit you described are already standard for people living in the EU etc. Only the U.S. is too shitty to have them.
  \ Stop praising China just because they say they are communists.
- You're getting down voted but no one has answered you.
  
  I'm being down voted for having a good point but they don't like facts
- There is no nation state while living in a commune. Communist country is a oxymoron .

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