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  • Windows and Linux are both easy to use... Provided that everything works out of the box.

    Once you have to actually start solving problems, Windows really starts to fall down because you have to spend ages looking through settings and perhaps installing tools like bcd editors. Like seriously, the number of places you can manage your microphone settings are insane.

    At this point, I think the only people that say Windows is easier are those that have never had to reinstall it or who have been using it since the XP days and haven't realised that it is all learned knowledge.

    I certainly think Linux tooling could be improved (a graphical fstab editor would be nice), but I struggle to see how troubleshooting in Windows is any easier than Linux.

  • I think both Windows and Linux are scary when you want to exactly fits you need.

    In using linux I started to know what is a DE, kernel, kernel argument, GRUB, systemd, selinux, etc. and I am the person that want to learn NOTHING about my OS, they just unfortunately pops up during troubleshooting.

    So is Windows, device manager, ipconfig, registry table, chocolatey, cmd vs powershell, WSL, and many more. But I would say, if you don't care about bloat and ads, and are willing to make stupid compromises, like copy a email to a notepad, so you can see it while drafting a new email. Windows might breaks slightly less often than linux depending on your hardware. But that doesn't mean Windows don't break, in fact Windows broke just in the first linux challenge video.

    For Linus's experiment, I don't really think it is a fair comparison between Linux and Windows. No one is going to learn a OS in a month, and expect to have the ability to not harm themselves, not on Windows not on Linux not on macOS.

    But it does serve as a good simulation of a busy Windows enthusiast moving to linux. Personally, I don't think this should be the only criteria to judge the linux eco system, but it is a important criteria, and linux has many things they can improve in this regard (and they are indeed improving).

    However, popOS installer for steam breaking DE is a legitimately rare event, and it happens to the most popular tech youtuber is even more rare...

    • Shit happens 🤷. It happens to milti-billion dollar companies as well, like MS. In fact, it happens a lot more frequently (and it's more destructive) than it does with Linux or any other POSIX based OS. I have yet to see an update deleting all my personal files in /home.

      Troubleshooting problems is about the same IMO, if you're familiar with the OS and how things work (in general). You just use the terminal more in Linux, since you'd have to open the file manager as root in order to troubleshoot, and that brings a whole other set of issues, like file permissions if you happen to copy a file to, let's say /home/<username>/Desktop temporarily, for troubleshooting. Ah, but now the file has root permissions, not the permissions your user has, and root is the owner of the file, so basically, your user only has read permissions, that's it. You can't move or delete the file. In order to move it or delete it, with a GUI, you'd have to open up the file manager as root again and do it from there. And that is why using the terminal to accomplish these things is so much simpler. You just add sudo in front and that's it, the command will do whatever root could do. And then you realize that just copying and renaming the file to filename.bak in the same location where the file originally resides is so much quicker and better. You can delete or move the file just by adding sudo in front of the command, no file manager needed.

      So yeah, troubleshooting is more or less the same IMO.

  • Or use ltsc like a chad

    • I have also mentioned this on more than a few occasions. I dual boot (very rarely to Windows nowadays) and I always use LTSC installs on all my dual boot setups. 0 problems thus far regarding GRUB and other Windows update related issues.

      I still don't know why people use Pro... maybe LTSC is more niche than I thought and MS is not pushing ads for that one out there.

      • A lot of misinformation for ltsc, people thinking its only for kiosks and cant be used as a daily.

        Given the choice for sketchy script messing with registry or sketchy key I'm going sketchy key, at least I know windows iso is legitimate, crazy so few know of ltsc and choose the latter.

    • LTSC gang

  • The only real issue I've had with Linux is trying to get my old Drobo 5C to work. (it's a self-managed dynamically adjustable/resizable raid array that just presents itself as a single 70tb usb hard disk. The company that made them dissolved a few years ago)

    It's formatted in ntfs and loaded with 25tb+ of data from when I ran windows primarily.

    It'll mount and work temporarily, but quickly stops responding, with anything that tries to access it frozen. Particularly docker containers.

    Then it'll drop into some internal data recovery routine (it's a 'black box' with very little user control, definitely wouldn't be my choice again, but here we are), refusing to interact with the attached system for half an hour or so. When it finally comes back, linux refuses to mount it. 'dirty filesystem', but ntfsfix won't touch it either. Off to windows and chkdsk, then rinse and repeat.

    I gave up when one of those attempts resulted in corrupt data (a bunch of mkvs that wouldn't play from the beginning, but would play if you skipped past the first second or two). I can't backup this data, (no alternative storage or funds to acquire it) so that was enough tempting fate.

    I ended up attaching it to an old windows laptop that's now dedicated to serving it via samba :(

    Really looking forward to setting up a proper raid array eventually, but till then I'm stuck with 11mbps. I'd love to rent storage temporarily so I can move the data and try a different fs on the drobo...

    • You could probably get a Gbit LAN USB card added to that so you could at least get 30MB out of the thing 🤷.

      • I'd need a windows system to put it in. The Drobo isn't upgradable beyond stuffing more drives in it, and the laptop is an old hp craptop...

        I've got a second desktop that's got usb3 (drobo is usb3), so that'd probably improve things, just not by a lot (pretty sure the slowdown is in the samba share, but I need to do more testing and see where exactly the issue is), and I kinda want to keep that system free for other experiments.

        Idk, still thinking on it.

  • Meanwhile if you wanna play a game on linux you have to research on forums with neckbeards that act all high horsey and get mad at you for asking questions they deem simple. If they do answer its cryptic like: "oh you just use simplinuxuser-bash-sh bro". Then by the time you get the game to run you better hope its not on a laptop with integrated graphics and a nvidia card because by god making the game only see the nvidia card over the integrated graphics if the game doesnt have the option to swap which card youre using good luck to any new user.

    Windows users just go to steams website, install steam, install game, play. Windows 10+ will install basic nvidia drivers without you doing anything at first bootup with internet connection. Look, I use linux, windows, macos in my house..windows is still my primary driver even with my steam deck being a close second these days. Im all for linux getting more use but its not easy stop acting like it is..its a hobby, its fun, thats it.

    • Installing games on steam and playing them sounds like what you do on Linux 99% of the time too

    • Windows users just go to steams website, install steam, install game, play. Windows 10+ will install basic nvidia drivers without you doing anything at first bootup with internet connection

      Linux users just go to steams website, install steam for their system (or use flathub), install game, play. Linux will install basic nvidia drivers (Nouveau) without you doing anything at first bootup.

      Linux gaming is super simple. The only suckage comes from intrusive AntiCheat/AntiTemper software some developers deem absolutely necessary.

    • hum, going to the website seems unintuitive, I was wondering why I cannot find steam in the app store. Turns out Windows is just not user-friendly.

      User behaviors are formed by experience, most people starts with windows, and of course know to use device manager etc to troubleshoot and think it is intuitive.

      When moving to a new OS there will of course be rough times. I was also utterly confused when I moved from Linux to Windows many years ago, but it took me couple months to a year to get used to it.

      Now I have moved back to linux with many years on Windows experience, and I also struggle to port all my setup from Windows back to linux.

      Just because things happen one way on one OS, doesn't mean other ways are "not user friendly".

    • Sorry, but you haven't used Linux seriously, then. Things were pretty hard 20 years ago when I switched to Linux desktops only, but today it's really is simpler to install Linux than windows./, talking from own experience. Installing Ubuntu is the usual 15-20 minutes breeze while windows 11 was a very painful 7 hour multi day process. It starts at downloading, the iso is like 4 times bigger. A typical windows issue l, as everything on windows is bloated to death.

      Then writing the ISO onto a USB requires a very specific writer because apparently only that one worked for windows 11 (which is a typical Microsoft bullshit problem, let's not use standards, let's ensure it's only workable with tools they want you to use). Figuring that out required going into forums and whatnot

      Then the install process crashed in step 2 with a typical error 000000000010000 or something like that, it's been a while, so I don't remember the exact code, but more searches and forums revealed that tadaaah, windows 11 requires some specific bios setting for my hardware (standard MSI AMD board) or it wouldn't work. Obviously no clear error message, just some vague code. Linux worked fine btw, it was already installed before on a separate m.2

      Then there was an issue with the license key that I don't recall anymore, it's been a few months ago and I've literally been trying to forget the experience. Coat a few extra hours, still.

      Then, hours later already, I cn actually start the install. Effin yay. There are what feels like hundreds of screens and crap to click through, loads about windows wanting to steal my soul with ads and monitoring and please sir, but some more crap you don't want!

      I installed Linux on a Saturday, started onwindows 30 minutes later, and finished windows about a week (and about 7 hours total work time) later.

      Windows SUCKS because it's been designed to work well for Microsoft, Linux may have issues but it's been actually getting better every time over the past 25 years.

      On servers? Don't get me started, windows is a sad sad joke, I don't even take it seriously. Watching windows administrators do their "work" is just one big "whyyyy??"

      Should I mention your android phone is Linux too?

      Saying Linux is only for a hobby is beyond short sighted. Sorry bout the rant but it irks me when people casually mention it's a hobby because they don't really know it, then happily leap back into the daily grinder that is windows

480 comments