Second largest Lemmy instance preemptively un-friends Facebook
Second largest Lemmy instance preemptively un-friends Facebook
Lemmy.ml has now blocked Threads.net
1K comments
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How about Lemmy.World?
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The admins stated on Mastodon that they're not going to defederate until something happens. Knowing Meta they shouldn't give them the chance.
Here's the link: https://mastodon.world/@mwadmin/110654590632768079
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Oh damn guess I will migrate to lemmy.ml and use that until I find out if lemmy.world defederates or not. (Edit turns out it is run by tankies and they are federated with lemmygrad.) While I may or may not stay on lemmy.world depending on if we federate with meta or not. I will no longer suggest Lemmy.ml.
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Bloody hell, I literally just switched to Lemmy.world, do I really need to switch to Lemmy.ml? Come on guys
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What a shame guess I'll stick to my alt over at lemm.ee for the time being
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Tolerance paradox applies here too
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You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
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Thanks for this, going to delete my lemmy.world account now.
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until something happens
What exact behaviors are they looking for that would cause them to push the block button?
Threads can do very well for themselves without the fediverse as they are already demonstrating. What real motive do they have to join the fediverse except to shut it down?
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The discussion is still on-going.
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What is there to discuss?
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Fair enough!
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Is there any reason that they wouldn't?
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You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
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You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
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This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they're blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn't stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was "slave owners should be killed" and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.
When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we'd be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH's community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).
Given lemmy's specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It's the correct move anyway.
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Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
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Wasn’t that the time Spez got caught editing comments from users?
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Naw that was way sooner, over on the_donald. That subreddit also got banned at the same time as CTH but had been dead for months by that point because they all moved to [DONOTVISIT]thedonald . win(now a virus site) followed by patriots.win. It was basically their way of softening the CTH shit and trying to make it less of an obvious attack on the leftist (non liberal) spaces of reddit. Nobody fell for it.
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Not leftists, Stalinists; The sort of people who end up killing all the other leftists any chance they think they might be close to taking power.
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Mate I do not give a flying fuck what any of these people with zero power are. I care about actually achieving shit. Fortunately I live in the UK where this bizarre sectarianism has absolutely no presence, thank fuck for that.
If you lived in the UK you'd be against the head of the RMT union currently striking the UK railroads, who publicly calls James Connolly his political hero and is an obvious marxist-leninist. You'd be against Jeremy Corbyn, because he defends the Soviet Union and always has, he also promotes the Black Panthers who defended north korea (if you look in the corner of the video around 2:00 there's even a cute little soviet cccp statue). You'd be against Diane Abbott, because she's publicly defended Mao on national television. You'd probably find something to be against John Mcdonnell who has said his job is to overthrow capitalism on the BBC, probably because he's quoted Mao and read his little red book in parliament?
My point here is that you've got to get a grip. We don't do this bizarre shit over in the UK because there's literally no point, there is no communist revolution just around the corner, the conditions do not exist for it. What matters is what we can achieve RIGHT NOW, when a revolution is actually on the cards then we can decide what that revolution should actually fucking look like. In the meantime these people are all mild lukewarm elected MPs as socdems that just want to give people more welfare and improve basic living standards, but you would call them evil tankies for any of these things.
If you don't build at least SOME power now you will have absolutely none when the conditions deteriorate enough for a real revolution, and if that is the case it will be fascism that wins, not any sect of the absolutely non-existent left in your country.
What you're viewing above is how radical you need to be just to establish and maintain lukewarm european welfare and social safety nets. Get that into your head and you might actually stop the aussie government dumping migrants into concentration camps and help improve people's lives for fuck's sake. You should know better than this anyway, half the union leadership of australia are marxist-leninists, and the other half are trots. What union are you in? I'll tell you whether you need to throw your union leader under the bus for some fucking do-nothing liberal because of your sectarianism obsession. Are you even in one?
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Lemmy.world needs to follow
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Completely agree - If lemmy.world doesn't block very shortly I will move to a different instance.
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https://fedipact.online/ is a list of instances that have pledged to preemptively block Threads. Includes my own instance (lemmy.name) among many others.
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If they don't, I'm out
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I mean, that's how federation ought to work right?
Though it's a bit of a shame that moving user accounts doesn't really seem to be a thing yet.
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Has anyone heard any comments from them on this? Reconsidering my choice of instance unless they block threads.
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100%
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I feel the same. Lemmy.world has demonstrated itself as a popular Lemmy instance, like a huge playground, but Facebook instances must be given the boot. I am okay with seeing myself out of here, if it does not happen. Being on lemmy.ml for years, I will have zero issues doing that.
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If people want to be on q duck platform they can join threads I joined lemmy to escape reddit not move to a zuck hell hole
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You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
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Fantastic news! Can we please do the same on lemmy.world? Please?
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Yes please! No more power to evil corporations. I don't want my server to add interaction to them and help drive their agenda.
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Didn't lemmy.world already block threads? I could swear I saw this post a while ago.
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I don't think they have yet. @ruud@lemmy.world
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can check here https://lemmy.world/instances
It's not federated or blocked yet. It's not showing up yet
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I was planning to start a petition post, but wasn't sure where would be the right place to post it.
Edit: Someone did already! https://lemmy.world/post/1125293
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It would be even greater if lemmy.world does it ;)
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I hope we do. And if we don't, I hope other instances block us.
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mastodon.world has decided not to, so I don't think we will.
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Thats very sad for the fediverse. RIP lemmy and mastodon.world.
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lemmy.world and everyone should as well
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I did yesterday or so.
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Same, performed the update to 0.18.1 and figured "well I'm already here so..."
I'll have no part in playing their game.
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Back when I was a kid and got my first computer, I was mostly offline except for the occasional dial-up session. I didn't have much to do on the internet anyway and it was quite expensive. I remember being amazed the first time I have set up to meet a friend over ICQ, rather than a phone call, of being able to communicate with other computers from mine. It didn't matter whether these computers were at a neighbors' house, a different city or entirely different country. I was looking forward to the internet giving us ways to connect like never before. No barriers, just directly communicating and bridging cultural differences and whatnot. Little did I knew that this was just one phase, as the internet gets more and more segregated. Rather than connecting with people, it gives you the ability to filter out whatever you don't agree with, while staying connected with those who share your beliefs. It's like we are no longer living the same reality and can't even agree over fundamental things. I miss the old naive days of the internet when we feared viruses and the occasional pedophile in a chat room. Nowadays it's the possibility of spreading misinformation that could overthrow a government. Either having it going uncontrolled and unregulated, or having a private company in control of such power.
Personally, I think that this should be the choice of an individual user rather than the platform.
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“ICQ”
Here’s a little nostalgia trip for you
I think I found a link without 2 fucking unskippable adverts beforehand!
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As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
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Exactly. This is why federation is cool. The individual can choose where to go. Oh, kbin and lemmy.world, you didn't defederate from the corporate shills? OK then, I shall defederate myself from you. Plenty of instances.
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The admins/devs are communists, they hate anything corporate related, so it's no surprise.
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As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
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As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
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Lemm.ee is another big-ish general purpose instance that looks to be in favour of preemptively defederating after some polling and discussion there today, in case Kbin.social and lemmy.world continue to stay silent.
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I will have to check that out. I tried lemmy.ml but found out it is run by tankies. So I deleted my account there. Lemmy.world are trying a wait and see approach which I think is a bit naive giving metas reputation. But at least they are against Tankies. As for kbin.social I have given the dev the benifit of a doubt since it is one person who works hard on kbin and most likely has not had time to comment on meta. I have faith that he will do the right thing and defederate from meta.
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Looking forward to Lemmy.world pushing the block button when it comes to it…
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They wont. You need to swap instances now that lemmy.world bent the knee to meta.
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LW admins: "Watching Like A hawk, with our fingers on the block button.”
You: OmG fUKKiN kNeeLeRs!
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This is hilariously transparent and bad faith on your part.
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"Okay then, that was always allowed"
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There is no indication that they never will de-federate from Meta.
All they have said is rather than shutting the stable before the horse bolts, they are actually waiting for the horse to get in the stable first and then address if the door needs closing.
There really is no need to either defederate from meta, or make that decision right now anyway
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Hard agree.
I don't really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn't affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media--and for that matter, all social media--without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it's like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck's sake, it doesn't think its users should control what they see on their own feed.
I am perfectly willing--even eager--to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I'm bored and applaud others doing the same; it's fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.
Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not 'they do not align with our values' because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I'm tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can't even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook's algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it's a danger to Fediverse shouldn't even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone's minds is 'wait, this is actually a serious question?' and have been answered 'lol of course it's a joke, I just forgot to add the /s'.
I'm still waiting for that /s.
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I've actually just asked that in another post, because I am kind of interested in what people see as Fediverse main idea.
But, thanks for this summary of how Threads looks like, since I'm avoiding it like a plague. You seriously can't even select what content you see? Fuck, that's way worse than I though - that's so obviously a ML model manipulating with people without holding anything back. I hope they've at least done something with the misalingment where it seems to just radicalize people to keep them on the platform, because if not, the world is fucked.
I hate Meta so much...
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Fortunately I have never had instagram and have a policy of never, ever using my wallet name online except as needed (exception: usenet my first year online; I was young and reckless). LinkedIn and Facebook were quite literally because a.) grandparents and other family, b.) my job, and c.) I realized early on that I needed an official web presence under my real name because there would be questions if there wasn't something out there.
So I made an instagram account then made a threads account, got a friend who had it to follow me, and did a quick dive.
I mean, it's literally a minimalist twitter real doll; I deactivated to keep my name intact, logged out, and deleted instagram and Threads on the phone in under five minutes and took a shower because I never realized the uncanny valley applied to an app's aesthetic. It's just--I mean, no. No no no.
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Trust me, they've taken any knowledge their new ex Twitter employees had about radicalizing people to keep them on the platform and integrated it fully.
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Yeah, exactly. I don't have Facebook, Instagram, etc. because I hate them as an online experience. I'm here because it's not that kind of experience. If the fediverse turns into the type of experience meta imposes on its users, I would just have to hope that something else alternative that I like pops up.
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Out of curiosity I tried it for a few minutes yesterday. All I saw was a bunch of influencers and low level memes. I had duck duck go tracker blocker on just to see how bad they are and it's worse than I could ever imagine. It showed 686 tracker attempts from 35 different companies and I was only on for about 10 minutes.
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I think defederating from them is a no-brainer for the fediverse, but who am I? Just a user of the fediverse. I do not own an instance. I choose the fediverse over meta and its facebook crap, so for me it's a no-brainer. For owners of instances, maybe it isn't such an easy decision. It costs money to run an instance, for example. Federating with the Facebook corporate goons at first will seem useful to some instances, especially the big ones that want to stay big and general. When the big and general ones that fall for Meta's scheme to take control of things, the smaller instances on the fediverse that chose to defederate will be there to join.
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I've been thinking on that and assuming fosstodon and lemmy.world both agree to defederate with Threads, I'm going to go ahead and set up regular donations. I only use DW a few times a year, but I renew my premium membership every six months and it's not cheap. I want to keep supporting it because its model does not include ads at all (premium gives you lots of icons, too, and I used to be a huge icon person, so I can't say that's not a consideration). Unless I lose my job or something, I'll keep paying until death or dw closes whether I ever use it again; it's worth supporting.
I was already considering it--when i joined mastodon I bought their stickers to show my appreciation--but this is been a wake-up call. If lemmy.world decides to federate, I mean, I'm not going to leave, but I am going to email lemmy.ml about why my application is still pending and use that for my primary.
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It's not about Zuckerberg, it's about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it's impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.
With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it's only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.
What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.
This isn't inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.
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If I wanted to see facebook shit I would use facebook, I stopped using whatsapp when it was bought by facebook, I don't want to see their content overwhelming the fediverse, that's why I'm here instead of there.
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I don't agree with this notion of "facebook content" vs "fediverse" content or anything like that. Content is just content, it's links, it's media, whatever. It's not "facebook shit" any more than reddit shit or lemmy shit. Content is a by-product of the users, so who/what the userbase is is extremely important - and that is why how it is marketed, who it appeals to and so forth, and the relative scale. thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform, and so forth, is the real issue.
You acknowledge that you have moved on from platforms when facebook/meta have got involved, and you're welcome to take your decisions on this, but it runs into problems in a federated environment where the goal is to increase interoperability by default.
Don't get me wrong, I think our goals are the same, to have an environment where people can talk and share links that is relatively exclusive / for like-minded people. I just don't think the angle of facebook/not facebook is the right one (tbh I would go further - I would not integrate, but not because of the provenance/company, but because of the users' expectations coming over from Threads)
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Fun thoughts and all but that isn't the reason why they're blocking it. It's because Facebook is bad. Corporation, big, embrace, expand, extinguish, evil. Plenty of explanations around about why these blocks happened. However you're also right. If it were very small like a 15k people instance and it didn't carry corporations inside maybe they'd consider not blocking.
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same coin, different side.
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I don't think threads actually has 30 million users. They have some paid shills, probably a lot of their own bots, some people who legit joined to see what it was about, and a bunch of Instagram users who had accounts created automatically. I'm not positive about the last point but if you can't delete threads without deleting Instagram then I'm sure they're going to leverage their Instagram userbase as much as possible here.
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Up to 70 million as of a day ago https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-07/meta-s-threads-has-70-million-signups-surprising-zuckerberg
I'm not concerned how many of these are real users - all the shills, the bots, are even worse than real users as they will just be spewing their propaganda around as much as possible.
Adding ONE million users overnight to the fediverse would be disruptive enough, 10x the biggest day from the influx from reddit. We're looking at orders of magnitude more than that.
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I didn't even know I was one of those 30 million users until you and others mentioned that people with Instagram accounts automatically have one.
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Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it's obvious he's going to do the same thing with Threads?
His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.
He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we're trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?
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Also consider Embrace Extend Extinguish, he is using federation purely as a resource to stand on
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Ideologically, de-federating an instance just because you don't like the guy running it would be a bad thing, but Facebook/Meta has been just so toxic to the internet as a whole it's hard to really find fault with it.
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My concern is less Suckerburg as much as Meta's corporate history. My expectation is that they'll try to use this to conquer and destroy Lemmy.
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Ideologically, I find more fault in inviting meta to the playground than locking them out. They are the very definition of an evil corporation and no good can come of it.
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Pragmatically, twitter style system requires a large networked userbase to be useful for most of the population, otherwise people are tooting into the void in mastodon. So even if I have to work with some soulless corporations to get there I think it's a net positive. For lemmy i don't think threads matters much.
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I thought the whole ideology of the fediverse was to get away from corporationl influence. So I'd say this is very much true to the ideology as well.
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Yup.
Facebook has been around for almost two decades.
This is not some unknown guy - we know exactly what Facebook's business strategy and ethical and moral conduct looks like.
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Exactly, there's an exception to every rule.
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I saw someone in another discussion say it perfectly: they put the meta back in metastatic!
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Bravo lemmy.ml! We should follow the example!
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Agreed. Ruud has done a lot of great things for .world in its short time, but I don't agree with his decision on this... I do hope he changes his mind.
There's no need to "give Meta a chance," they've already demonstrated who they are time and again. And I don't want to end up having to leave .world in the future because the traditional Fediverse split in two, and .world is on the wrong side of it.
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I’m actually shocked by the growth of threads, I underestimated how much people don’t care about their digital privacy.
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You are using a social network on some random dude's server.
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That is very true, but I have a little more trust in this random dude’s server where he gets access to what? He sees my IP address? Than a corp that collects an unnecessary amount of user info for the sole purpose of keeping you locked into their apps with little disregard for health. While also pimping your info out to any persons with $2 to their name.
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tbf, that's every social network isn't it?
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Yeah I wouldn't take on hosting a public instance, especially in EU, as it comes with all sorts of legal shite
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Those are existing Instagram accounts.
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What they don’t know will hurt them, sadly.
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Which is why we should federate. People have the choice to use a low availability “private” server hosted by amateurs on lemmy or use something secure and distributed that works 100%.
A little warning: the site owners on lemmy could be doing many malicious things. The simplest is the ability to drop trackers in the sites header section. However they could have dns based trackers that are invisible to end users. And thats just tracking so far. The only reason we know facebook is a slime bag is years and years of leaks.
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I don't know. I would like to subscribe to someone on Threads from Mastodon (since both are Twitter alternatives), if they don't have Mastodon account (which let's be honest they probably don't). Zuck does not get any of my data (besides what's available publicly anyway). If Threads decides to go full EEE, I'll stop getting updates from people on Threads, same as I don't get updates from people on IG right now. I think proliferation of ActivityPub protocol would be the greatest advantage.
Moreover, I think we should follow the email architecture - I might use i.e. Proton Mail, but it does not prevent me from sending emails to Gmail, which I think is a bad provider, who collects a lot of user data. In fact if Proton Mail forbade sending email to Gmail I would be really displeased about that.
The goal is to allow people to choose where they want to go and ActivityPub is what can help with that, unlike blocking Threads.
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Waiting for others to follow.
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Very good news. Between Pi Hole and uBlock Origin, any links to threads is already blocked on my computer. Nice to see you folks preventing the linking to this privacy invading boil of the internet
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how about making a poll on lemmy.world asking how we feel about defederating from metatrap, just to see...
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When companies like META show you how ruinous they are the first dozen times, over and over without end, you believe them, and you defend yourself, or you deserve every bad thing that's going to happen to you, when they repeat their corporate driven ends at your expense
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It's the scorpion and the frog, completely.
"Oh, man..who would've thought that the people who want to monetize everything and dominate any market they get into would not just be our friends this time?"
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Happy with this.
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Yes.
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I'm on the fence here. Luckily, at least, I think community/subreddit-based sites like Lemmy/Reddit don't have "network effects" that are as "sticky" as Mastodon/Twitter, because with Lemmy/Reddit you don't need to build up a follower list to start getting value. You just join the community and it's as if you immediately "followed" a bunch of people who share your interests. You don't even need to make an account - you can just bookmark a community and lurk, and maybe you eventually make an account to start interacting. It's a great "on-ramp" - very low barrier to entry/usefulness.
I think that's why Lemmy was able to take off so fast. It relies on community-level coordination, rather than every individual user having to make their own choice to switch, and try to get all their followers/followees to switch. So even if Meta did add a community-style mode, I don't think it'd eat into the Lemmy userbase. It is hard to be sure though, and I respect the choices of those instances that have blocked/defederated.
Mastodon admins have a harder decision to make I think - there's an opportunity to get very quick growth by effectively adding a lot more followable users/content. A bunch of people don't like Meta/Facebook, but want to follow their friends, and so they may use Mastodon to do that, which could get a lot more people to move to "real" fediverse apps/sites like Mastodon. I know a lot of people that are on Threads now, and I'm looking forward to being able to follow them from Mastodon, rather than being forced to get Threads to keep up to date with what they're working on.
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Lemm.ee intends to do the same “If Threads ever becomes interoperable with Lemmy”
Per – Admin Post
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Neat, that means I can stay with lemm.ee for now. It’s a really well working instance and the admin seems to know his stuff. I’d still have migrated in a heartbeat if it federated with meta.
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Completely agree on all counts.
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There we go. Not the wishy washy mastodon non-announcement. Although I understand their "neutrality" too, it's still like they wanna seem like the big boys. Sometimes it's advantageous to be small. This "fuck you" may be just adorable to Zuck, but it's also genuine.
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(Apparently) Unpopular Opinion: I think defederating Threads is the wrong move, because it just locks people into Threads. If people on Twitter had the ability to move to Mastodon AND still interact with all the people they did before, I think we would have seen even more people move. The only reason I still check twitter at all is because I have a few close friends who didn't move. Meta is likely going to have big adoption of people who aren't ready to go to Mastodon, but are interested in getting out of the dumpster-on-fire that twitter seems to continue to be. But blocking those people from being able to join the more popular Lemmy instances, given no actual policy violations, just will keep people in Meta that otherwise could leave. With the "however" being: It's not quite clear to me that Threads users will be interacting with Lemmy as much Mastodon, if Threads were a Reddit replacement, it's more directly connected.
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Good news! Fuck Zuck!
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These are very good news, I just hope more instances beyond lemmy.ml do so too.
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My instance as well as the other Lemmy and Mastodon instances on this list have blocked Threads.
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As a Mastodon instance admin that did the blocking properly only yesterday, I can tell you this list appears to be automated and accurate.
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Can someone ELI5 this situation to me? Not sure what Meta can do to instances/the Fediverse.
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People are worried that they'll embrace, extend and extinguish it. That is, join the fediverse, make Threads a better client than any of the existing ones until everyone uses their client, then use that extra reach to harm the fediverse.
I'm personally not that worried, because of who we are. We're a bunch of geeks with anarchist leanings, and so probably wouldn't switch to Threads anyway.
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Please remember the example of Microsoft and open source office document formats. And in the early days of Internet Explorer with HTML. The risk here is that Threads will embrace the fediverse for a bit. Then they will incorporate features that are only available in Threads that will bleed users away from the open source options. All the while vacuuming up user data for profit while having distain for user privacy. Why would we want to allow them to cast aside the privacy for only one of our users? Are we not going to act like stewards for open source and protection of user privacy?
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Maybe? But a lot of people have exited reddit over the last month. Maybe not the average user but not the most hardcore geek anarchist either-they weren't on Reddit to begin with. Then there are the obvious reasons that a lot of people have left Twitter an those are the same type of people leaving reddit. So mastodon is probably more at risk than Lemmy but I don't think for a second that meta would not throw together a Lemmy competitor if they smell any money whatsoever in it.
Either way you run risks simply by interacting with threads, even if you interact accidentally. Their entire business model is to suck every last piece of data out of you that they can so they can sell in every way they can possibly think of to monetize it.
Since lemmyworld has no intention of blocking them I'm finding another instance to move to. Better safe than sorry with a company that has a horrific record on every single issue. And that way if they federate then back out, I won't be losing anything because I'll have never seen that content to begin with.
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We’re a bunch of geeks with anarchist leanings, and so probably wouldn’t switch to Threads anyway.
You know me, haha
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I think the main fear would be that a few really cool communities naturally spark up, even if they're niche, and could long term create that fracture when you have to choose between keeping with that community (and any corporate backed extensions) or not.
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The will federate, try their best to suck as many users from fediverse as possible into threads, then defederate and become a walled garden again.
As for how they will suck users away:
- Make their algorithms prefer posts from threads, so anyone wanting to reach a wider audience needs to move to threads
- Add twitter like checkmarks that are only available for users of threads (they will say it is for security since they need to verify the idwntity of checkmarked people)
- Add features that are not exposed on activity pub, so that you have to be on threads to use them (twitter did the same by for example not making polls available over API)
- Intentionally make their activity pub slow and unreliable to make it look like other instances are broken and threads is fast and reliable.
- Probably much more
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Unfortunately, realistically speaking there are no users here to suck. In a few days of existence threads already grew ten times bigger than all the fediverse combined.
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They will start setting standards that other instances will be pressured to follow. Those standards will be mechanisms to control the fediverse and make it a data-gathering ad & sales platform.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
This is what people want to avoid. Meta is a bad actor, they intend on making their presence ubiquitous so people end up relying on it for their internet experience.
Y'know how you need a Facebook account to sign up for all sorts of things now? That's what people want to avoid happening in the fediverse.
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It's simple really. If something as large as Facebook federates, you will never be able to know whether the users you are engaging with are actual people somewhere, and not just large language models.
It's happening on reddit right now. The only value to this sort of website is engaging with actual people.
If I wanted to talk to a chatbot, I can already do that. Meta has proven again and again that it will manipulate it's users with insidious content and moderation, and will knowingly harm users, such as by selling user data to foreign governments or deliberately fomenting depression and anxiety in its users, even kids.
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I mean, they can turn it into total shit like they did with Instagram and Facebook.
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@ChatGPT@lemmings.world Explain in simple terms what are the risks for Fediverse if a large corporation like Meta joined it.
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If a large corporation like Meta were to join the Fediverse, there could be a few potential risks, notably:
- Increase in Centralization: One of the primary objectives of the Fediverse is to maintain a decentralized network that is controlled by its users, not a single entity. However, the participation of a large corporation could potentially lead to an increased centralization, undermining the very principle of the structure.
- Monetization and Profit-Driven Activities: Large corporations are generally aimed at generating profit. They could try to introduce monetization features which can change the way the Fediverse currently operates, moving away from the principle of a free and open internet.
- Data Privacy and Security: Large corporations sometimes engage in data mining for targeted advertising or selling information to third-parties. Their participation could raise serious concerns about data privacy and security within the Fediverse.
- Influence Over Standards and Protocols: If a large corporation becomes a dominant player in the Fediverse, they might impose their own standards and protocols, or make alterations to the existing ones.
- Culture Shift: The Fediverse is largely driven by a community that values internet freedom, privacy, and decentralization. A large corporation could change the culture and nature of interactions within the Fediverse.
Bear in mind that these are potential issues and not guaranteed outcomes. The unique structure of the Fediverse itself can provide some level of resilience against these concerns.
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Microsoft did this with Office document formats, effectively killing OpenDocument and dramatically reducing the power of LibreOffice, etc. Threads will incorporate features that are not available in the open source versions of lemmy, driving users to their platform and marginalizing the open source versions. All the while sucking up user data and ignoring user privacy. Are we not stewards for user privacy for ALL users, not just the savvy ones?
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I mean, if Lemmy.world doesn't when they decide to try and move in, I'll just move on to the next site that does. Prolly Lemmy.ml
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I am so in love with Lemmy right now.
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Woah there, keep it in your pants Fapper!
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Good call, guys. No more Zuck.
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I don't generally judge people based on their appearance, but this man's face gives me the heebie-jeebies. There's something alienating about the lack of affect he seems to have, plus his features seem to be an approximation of a human face - the mouth is too small, the ears too big, the forehead too shiny...
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He looks like an AI image that managed to crawl out of the screen like the kid from The Ring
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All the faces on This person does not exist are more believable than any picture of the Zucbot.
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It's very uncanny valley!
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Ribbit
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He is not human
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Sweet action! After hearing about Lemmy.world not doing the same i'll be switching instances. It's great that I can make that decision.
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Yep. Different strokes for different folks.
That's the glory of federation.
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How does that work? Is threads using a protocol compatible to lemmy? (And I fully agree with the preemptive blocking of any facebook stuff).
Edit: thanks for all the detailled answers.
So Facebook tries the old EEE - Embrace Extend Extinguish. 1.A big company is Embracing an open source standard ("we're friendly, see?) They get a lot of users that way - even the open source savvy types. 2.they start Extending that standard "to make it even better" - but not talking about these changes with the rest of the community first. They cannot react quickly enough and become incompatible with the new version of this standard. 3.Extinguish. When all the users are effectively using the big companies platform with something that isn't the original standard anymore they change it so much that it isn't compatible at all anymore or replace it completely.
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Good 👍🏼
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Yay censorship and users not being able to make decisions for themselves!
Yay emotions!
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Can y'all stop using this goblin as the thumbnail? Thanks
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Not sure what to think of this honestly. Like imagine a small email provider decided to block Gmail, that's a death sentence. It's impossible to get people to switch apps when they have to leave behind all of the content and people they used an app to interact with. And let's be honest, threads is going to run at a loss for a long time to grow their userbase before they start pulling weird shit. We need to have a migration path when that happens, and if threads is blocked everywhere, people will lose their content and contacts upon switching, so they won't do it.
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I consider email (and snail mail) a significantly more essential service than social media. Email service providers starting to block each other is much more likely to have a negative effect on my life than being disconnected from some friends, influencers or current news
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So that settles it. We have an option if meta federated and it goes to shit. Lemmy.world's stance is correct. Let's just see how this goes.
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You don't wait and see how it goes with these sorts of things. They will destroy the community before you can take action and it'll be too late. They will do their best to destroy the fediverse and privatize it. They can't buy it like they usually do with competition, so they'll ooze their way in, contribute bullshit to the project, create new proprietary functionality that only works on their instance, convince everyone all the other instances are broken, and walk away with all the users. You don't invite vampires into your house.
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Do you realize that fediverse is not one single project? For example Lemmy and Mastodon has different implementation and developers. The only thing that connecting them is ActivityPub, which is owned by W3C, not the community. So basically Meta created their own implementation for Threads (so it's already propertiary), and theoretically already able to pressure W3C to change the ActivityPub without even joining fediverse
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How will they destroy it if they are literally only making it larger and more useable. The average normie today has no reason to create a mastadon account, because almost no one uses it. But if they can use a major social media platform, and use a federated free service like mastadon, then that makes mastadon much more valuable to them.
The fact that a social media service is objectively good doesn't mean anyone is going to use it. Having backing from the biggest social media company in the world, might actually get people to use it.
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But.... Do we really expect Threads users to make their Mastodon-type tweets even show up on Reddit-style Lemmy?
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They'd only show up if someone on the instance started subscribing to them, if I have understood how that all works correctly. And who would do such a silly thing?
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Yeah I'm not entirely unfertstanding why defederating with them should matter on Lemmy instances. Can we even view those types of posts on here? I know you can on kbin, but I didn't think that was even a functionality of Lemmy.
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Its a .net? Is that going to be a more expensive top level domain now?
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the new/old .io
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I immediately created an account.
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HARD agree. Let's make this happen!
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lemmy.ml4lyfe.
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Is this a new instance?
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Fairly. It was made right after the first big Reddit wave to accomodate for the influx of new users.Sorry, got mixed up with lemmy.world. No, lemmy.ml is one of the oldest instances, allong with lemmygrad.ml.
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