Defediverse

Lol right? And if you even try to engage it’s constant sealioning, memeing, and dunking.

To build on this point: I don’t get the whole “anti-echo chamber” thing and this demand we entertain said assholes. We select people to be friends we generally like and agree with. We often don’t associate with people we don’t like or disagree with. Why should our forums be some totally egalitarian social exposure? That’s literally never been the case ever. We read what we want to read. We talk to who we want to talk to. I’m not going to be guilted into listening to some jerk who thinks gay people shouldn’t marry and belong in hell. I don’t want to share a beer with them, I would never invite them to dinner in my home, so why should I have to deal with them living rent free in my mind because I saw some ignorant post of theirs and they called someone a slur? Hell, why should I be forced by some arbitrary, inconsistent moral code to deal with people who are simply disruptive/obnoxious?

I have plenty of work colleagues and family I disagree with, I read sources I don’t always love. I get plenty of exposure to other ways of thinking and ideas, at least no less than anyone else does. Do I think people can go too far and literally only surround themselves with “yes men” socially? Sure. But come on. How many of us actually spend equal time with people we both agree and disagree ideologically with?

The only people whining about defederating either don’t understand what it is or are butthurt because people are collectively showing them the door, and there is little they can do about it. 

You mean hexbear, kbin, and lemmygrad?

I hope so.

It’s funny how people always use play it like “oh, it’s just differing opinions” when what they’re actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should “try to understand” nazis and tankies, they’d be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of “differing opinions”.

There's an actual term for this: Motte and Bailey. One of many hallmarks of disingenuous shitbirds.

Preaching facts right here friend

I bloody hate fascist

Another horseshoe theory take... Last I checked the "tankies" saved everyone from the Nazis. Let's equate genocidal/colonial violence to defend capital, with the efforts to establish socialism. LOL

Hitler wasn’t all bad. After all, he did kill Hitler.

My dude, just today we had Neo-Nazis berating people outside Disney World about the supremacy of the white race and the need to eliminate all LGBTQ people. "Literal Nazi" isn't some coded terminology that takes a PhD in Cryptography to decipher. There are no hidden meanings here.

every time someone says something stupid

Here's a philosophical topic called emergence. Every "one" thing said by an idiot is one thing, but when pretty much every other comment becomes some asshole saying ignorant things it suddenly is something entirely different.

I saw the very early Internet (mid-80s) and what happened when you gave people benefit of the doubt. There's been no demonstration that anyone has changed. So fuck those stupid assholes, the Internet is vast they can go carve out their own thing. That's the nice thing, they have every tool to make their own LOLverse. But they don't because they don't want to suck each other's dick, they want to be an ass to everyone else. Just as it was the case with talk.*

Same as it was, same as it ever will be. I for one am glad this time around people are being proactive. It shows that some have actually learned something.

Yes, let's give the Nazis a platform to spew their bullshit. It's entirely so we can laugh at them and completely could not possibly lead to them continuing to propagate their message of hate. /s

Fuck off. Fuck off as far as anyone has ever fucked off before, then dream the impossible dream and fuck off even further.

You are advocating for nazis. Fuck off.

You forgot the “except for Nazis” part. No one wants more nazis except nazis and they can fuck off.

Well, once they fix the whole "each instance copies the media from other instances automatically" thing. I'd love to self-host a vanity instance if I didn't have to either worry about CSAM or just nuke the entire pict-rs facility via script.

...actually I wonder if that's an option on kbin. Even if the Mastodon interoperability is a bit wonky right now I like the platform working with both services on ActivityPub (thus why I'm here).

Yup. As a side effect: admins that are too eager to pull the trigger might get their own users pissed, and they'll eventually leave. So a successful admin needs to make sure that the defed is the best for his userbase.

Tolerance is a social contract.

If you refuse to be bound by it, then you are a direct threat to the contract, and those who follow it, and should be treated as such.

Yeah, but the difference is that the nazis wouldn't be right or even honest, unlike the ones who oppose bigotry and genocide. You can't tolerate intolerance to death.

What a telling perspective.

Typical Lemmy.world take

Not just managing to live until the inevitable furry genetics era out of spite.

People were saying that about cryogenics.

Humans have a vast body of knowledge about how things work. It's a shame its dwarfed by the vast body of knowledge we are completely ignorant of.

Much as scientists managed to be surprised that life had evolved to eat garbage in the pacific garbage patch, it seems some will manage to be surprised that when humans eliminate one source of mortality, another inevitably evolves to take advantage of the ever-growing supply of humans.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/cZYNADOHhVY?si=Zh_dgcBUU8Z6o1Mr

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

I want to stab you in the back 8 times, you don't want to be stabbed at all.

Let's compromise and I stab you 4 times.

We can surely work a way to achieve peace for our time!

Yeah! They put on a red shirt, that means they're cool!

So you’re just not aware that that’s been a real problem? I mean, ok you didn’t know, but your uninformed opinion is worthless.

That's specifically what happened to lemmy.ml recently

Yup, exactly

I think it's mostly about Hexbear, Exploding heads and lemmygrad.

Here's a comment thread where a Hexbear user said "I hope to kill people like you" because I simply said I supported democratic socialism.

Going on any Hexbear instance people froth over telling anyone right of Karl Marx to "get up against the wall". You guys are, and will always be, a joke.

If it were that simple, then it would be fine.

But the point is, people just start to label anything that whiffs of a different opinion as "intolerance".

Nazis/extremists don't respond to rational arguments against their ideology.

Well whenever regular people go in to their communities they get ridiculed and have their comments removed or even banned, so what's the difference?

Yeah because normalising fascism in 2016 so that actual nazis came into the light and the mainstream sure helped make them less destructive and made them have less of an echochamber! Oh wait..

If you have the choice between an eco chamber where 10% of people are nazis and say nazi shit to other nazis and normalizing nazism to the point where mainstream gathering places are full of crazy nazi babble and having 15% nazis I would chose to contain the poison.

So many tankies on here, flat out support for the invasion of Ukraine, claiming that the west is less free than China, shitting on democracy/voting... So much shit.

...... that was from over a month ago. Doubt it. Also I'm not sure that anyone has enough info to know if it was a bad call or not but it was not very recent considering how many defederations have been discussed since.

Lol is that why hexbear is defederating from so many instances?

Says person calling people assholes.

Heck I think Lemmygrad is more tolerable than Hexbear, by a lot.

Nazis do not deserve to live. I don't see the problem.

Are you saying Nazis shouldn't be killed?

The private property rights that give private companies the ability to censor your speech are created and inforced by the government in the first place, so functionally it's not different. A handful of massive companies who functionally own the government getting to police what is acceptable speech is not functionally different from the government doing it directly.

I really can't fathom why people cry about "freedom of speech" when something privately owned decides not to include what they consider fucking shit. Freedom of speech is the fact the government cannot stop you from saying what you want. NOTHING ELSE. People paying to run their own instances do not owe you anything

All rights are only between an individual and their government

Different rights have different scopes. Some rights, like the right to live, are between everyone. Some others, like the right to receive a purchased product, are only between buyer and seller. Freedom of speech "just happens" to be between individual and government, in countries where it's even a right.

Blocking votes is not a concern, but it’s the comment toxicity that is (in my opinion) making this place lose something very special.

You can see what OP is trying to do here though, even with his edits. He's "both sides-ing" it up.

lol so that zelensky fellow is better are you inferring?

This person was just as intolerant as a Nazi themselves and didn’t even realize it.

No they weren't, this is what Popper defines as intolerance of the second degree. Taken from the German wiki page because this aspect is better explained there than in the English version (translated with deepl):

In intolerant people, Popper distinguished two categories:

1. intolerance of the first degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are foreign.
2. intolerance of the second degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are intolerant and dangerous.

Popper therefore rejected universal tolerance:

"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unrestricted tolerance leads with necessity to the disappearance of tolerance. For if we extend unrestricted tolerance even to the intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant social order against the onslaughts of intolerance, then the tolerant will be destroyed and tolerance with them."

However, since we as human beings are not capable of knowing the true motives of our counterparts, a fundamental, unsolvable problem now arises: It is difficult for an outsider to distinguish whether a person who expresses intolerance belongs to the first or second degree.

In other words the intolerance against Nazis is justified because they are the ones being intolerant in the first place, and sometimes this is the only way to fight them on that.

I'll grant that this is disregarding your premise of Nazis not existing, but to be quite honest if I may, that's a pretty stupid premise. The Nazis did exist, they were the poster child for intolerance of the first degree, and their ideology is far from being as dead as they are.

You ever convert a Nazi with words? You certainly haven't convinced me that a Nazi puncher and a Nazi are the same.

I mean there's Leftism and then there's "North Korea is the only real democracy" and while most Leftists aren't of the latter type you'd be naive to think the ones who are don't exist.

High percentage of Canadians and the 50/50 describes canada to a fucking T

You've just described Hexbear. :b