Jordan Peterson learns that freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences
Jordan Peterson learns that freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences
Jordan Peterson disciplinary action for alleged behaviour that violated his code of conduct as a psychologist.
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I’m sharing this article because it changed my perception of Jordan Peterson, and exposed him as intellectually dishonest at best and more likely a fraud artist. Starting with essentially his dissertation. It is a long read but it is incredibly well researched and written:
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
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This video from Some More News really highlights all of Jordans bullshit. It's long as fuck but I enjoyed every minute of it
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/hSNWkRw53Jo?si=WIrG2o3Qa5iqJwEP
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Dont look at the time stamp!
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Wow what a fantastic video. I’m so glad I didn’t check the timecode.
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The article was a fun read, but for readers who don't have time, I believe Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language" describes the same problem with marginally fewer words. My favorite excerpt, though, really nails exactly the BS your article mentioned:
Now that I have made this catalogue of swindles and perversions, let me give another example of the kind of writing that they lead to. This time it must of its nature be an imaginary one. I am going to translate a passage of good English into modern English of the worst sort. Here is a well-known verse from Ecclesiastes:
I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
Here it is in modern English:
Objective consideration of contemporary phenomena compels the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.
This is a parody, but not a very gross one.
Peterson's writings are worse than Orwell's own parodies.
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Basically, he regularly violates the Maxim of Manner.
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I’d not heard of this essay, I’ll have to check it out. Thank you for sharing.
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I was going to just call him a wanker.
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It's a good article. I'll admit that Jordan Peterson is a good psychologist and knows many words and stories, he can make many people feel smart or dumb through his incantations of nonsense. But that's it, all the rest of it is bunk.
His essays read like an anthology of writings someone made to finish a book report due tomorrow, after not sleeping for 3 days yet somehow feeling wide awake from the crazed panic.
Also see this screenshot on Firefox Mobile (Est. reading time 63 - 81min). Readers will be well-advised to skim over the copious amount of Jordan Peterson excerpts. Lol.
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Here is a good short video
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Appreciate the link. It's crazy how much info they pack into such a short video!
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/hSNWkRw53Jo?si=lWiatFeahMHMhtZy
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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One more reason to hate the education system of rating stuff according to how lengthy it is.
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Admittedly I don't know much about Jordan Peterson, but if it does that, it wouldn't change my perception of him at all.
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Reading 12 Rules for Life recently and I'd agree that Jordan Peterson is not a good writer that he uses too much words for the ideas he's trying to say. He's also too religious for my taste. However it's a exaggeration that "he has almost nothing of value to say". There are some insights of value if you skim through his words and it appears to me that he genuinely meant good for the advice he gives. I think he just needs a better editor.
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You haven't read the linked article, because the author does adress this. They point out that Peterson specifically does hide obvious and banal ideas in his sentences, so that when people finally find some blatant truths in his word salad, it makes it seem like the ideas are much more profound than the platitudes they actually are.
Here is a quote from the article:
The inflating of the obvious into the awe-inspiring is part of why Peterson can operate so successfully in the “self-help” genre. He can give people the most elementary fatherly life-advice (clean your room, stand up straight) while making it sound like Wisdom.
And remember the author actually shows this with numerous in-depth examples from Peterson's writings. A better editor would do nothing, because Peterson writes like that with intent, the intent being to disguise what a cultish hack he is.
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I think it remains to be seen whether he's learned anything.
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I'm not sure he's "learned" anything. Good article otherwise!
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Good article?
The comments that formed the basis of the complaints against Dr. Peterson included comments on a podcast in which he commented on air pollution and child deaths by saying “it’s just poor children…”
This quote is the most disgusting out of context character assassination I've seen in a long time.
I got suspicious because while Jordan does say things that women and/or trans people often find deplorable. I know that he's a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric) and as a family man I assume of children as well.
The full context can be found on Spotify. Episode #1769 of "The Joe Rogan Experience" start from about 15:30. He's the one that brings up how 7 million poor children die from indoor particulate pollution. Joe doesn't believe him and gets a fact check, which eventually leads to Jordan sarcastically saying "Well, it's just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway..."
It's such an insane mischaracterization of what he said, you can't take the article seriously. Probably would have to write off the entire website that article is from, honestly.
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I think Jordon Peterson is a giant pile of shit, but you're being downvoted for calling out a shitty article for misrepresenting obvious sarcasm, and that's bullshit. Misinformation is misinformation regardless of whether or not it confirms our bias, if the Fediverse community doesn't want to learn this it has no business pointing at misinformation on other platforms like Reddit.
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Please read this: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Not only does Jordan Peterson say dumb inflammatory shit, but he’s also apparently an intellectual fraud.
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he's a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric)
"Well, it's just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway..."
Never mind how laughable that first quote is, it is inherently incompatible with the second, since the entire Malthusian myth is based in classist eugenics
https://www.theworldmind.org/home/2021/12/10/the-dangerous-myth-of-overpopulation
https://www.globaljustice.org.uk/blog/2019/03/how-racist-myths-built-population-growth-bogey-man/
Imagine still jumping to the defence of this bigoted useless grifter... 🤦♀️😂
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I am sorry, but I dont understand where is the misinformation? The article doesnt state nor imply that JP has said that poor children deserve to die. It stated, that that particular comment was used in a complaint against him in court. So if you are upset at the people who formed the complaint then thats fair. But why be mad at the article? They only stated what has happened, unless I misunderstood?
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This is why I've kinda stopped consuming other people's political writing, and only shitcomment about it. People of all stripes cannot resist the urge to make the story just a liiiiiitle better.
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Would you throw out Nietzsche because he said one thing you disagree with?
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If we all followed the teachings of jordan peterson we would be living in a world perfectly suited to jordan peterson. I would sooner live in a world which made jordan peterson suicidal.
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I'd prefer a world where he learned a trade, and spent his life building affordable housing and never considered teaching anyone anything.
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What is it with those guys and insultingly weak legal arguments?
"I was off duty as a psychologist when I made public statements".
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Off duty, but still fully willing to be introduced as a clinical psychologist at the start of the podcast, and to consistently refer to himself as a practicing clinical psychologist in these interviews.
He wants to have it both ways clearly
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It's not because of his drug addiction, interesting. It's because he was being shitty towards poor and trans people. Glad to see he's being reprimanded for something.
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Nobody is forcing him to be a member of the profession – to paraphrase one of his tweets that was complained about “You’re free to leave [the profession] at any point.”
Jordan Peterson really is free to leave the profession - he doesn't need the money. Meanwhile a psychologist who isn't independently wealthy can't express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood. I don't think "only the rich can exercise freedom of speech" is good policy.
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Meanwhile a psychologist who isn’t independently wealthy can’t express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood
Oh fuck off with that. The opinion he expressed was, and I quote, (about child deaths) "it's just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyways". A licensed medical professional should never say something like that, period, even in jest.
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I don't know the context for that quote and I don't think it's particularly relevant to my argument. Even if we assume the worst possible interpretation, H.L. Mencken still said it best:
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
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Copy and paste of another user's comment:
Good article?
The comments that formed the basis of the complaints against Dr. Peterson included comments on a podcast in which he commented on air pollution and child deaths by saying “it’s just poor children…”
This quote is the most disgusting out of context character assassination I've seen in a long time.
I got suspicious because while Jordan does say things that women and/or trans people often find deplorable. I know that he's a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric) and as a family man I assume of children as well.
The full context can be found on Spotify. Episode #1769 of "The Joe Rogan Experience" start from about 15:30. He's the one that brings up how 7 million poor children die from indoor particulate pollution. Joe doesn't believe him and gets a fact check, which eventually leads to Jordan sarcastically saying "Well, it's just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway..."
It's such an insane mischaracterization of what he said, you can't take the article seriously. Probably would have to write off the entire website that article is from, honestly.
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And again people don't grok what "freedom of speech" entails.
You can speak all you like. If what you say pisses people off, they can avoid you all they like, up to and including MOTHERFUCKING EMPLOYMENT.
Freeze Peach idiots need to grow the Hell up!
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He isn't free to leave the profession because part of his con is that he is using his professional status when he writes something or says something as a psychologist.
His worth as a propagandist is that he can attach that professional status to his messages, if it's "disgraced" psychologist, or "struck off" psychologist then it has less impact because he has been found to have broken his professional conduct to the point where he lost the title.
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“…being subject to a code of ethics or having to be more responsible and thoughtful in how one expresses oneself in public forums is part of the package one accepts in exchange for the privilege and benefits that come with being a licensed professional”.
Indeed. If Mr Peterson wants to present as a practitioner of a regulated profession, they have to follow the rules. They are not owed a right to practice, they are given a privilege to practice.
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It pained me to discover that my brother liked one of his books in 2020. I'm very careful to not stress our relationship because he's otherwise a decent person. I shudder to think what other content he might expose himself to over time and what that will mean for our relationship.
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I read one of his books before i knew who he was, and found although the advice was mostly common sense (if a bit context free) advice, followed by long rants about traditional family's, and backed up by bible. I found myself thinking "what about behaviourism research?", you know there has been progress in the last 100 years. I'm ashamed that the traditional family shit didn't tip me off.
I've found him come up in my google feeds often too, It's insidious.
In terms of convincing your brother about how off this guy is, generally there are how to approach things on line (i.e. you can't always take a logical approach). I've also encountered this kind of thing in my extended family, I've got distant aunts that likely voted for trump, and they are otherwise decent people (i.e. not racist, and supportive).
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It's a wild statement to insinuate that your family voting for Trump somehow makes them bad people. Likewise, Peterson has some decent advice that I think should not fully be written off due to his personal life.
I haven't really seen anyone in this thread disqualify his argument based on merits and only using their own feelings to say he's wrong.
In all honesty, I don't have a horse in this race, but I don't think Peterson is a terrible as everyone seems to think. Maybe I'm crazy
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because he’s otherwise a decent person. I shudder to think what other content he might expose himself to over time and what that will mean for our relationship.
Maybe he's wondering what content you're exposing yourself to, as well? i think it's time you guys talk, but on one condition; To not be easily offended. i'm wondering; would he feel offend by you, or you feel offended by him?
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He brought up men's rights bullshit around the same time (actually, maybe a bit earlier). I shot that down in the most diplomatic terms I could. He seemed not to resist (I think I made my point fairly well and he reconsidered). He's a good father and a caring brother. That's enough for me.
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Freedom of speech is between a person and a government, not between a person and a private club they pay yearly dues to be a member of.
The confusion is that in the US the professional organisations are a part of the government. In Canada, the government gives authority to private groups to manage themselves, and they basically get to be in charge of a job title. Jordan Peterson doesn't practise psychology anymore and hasn't for nearly a decade.
Yet he's kept his professional membership going. This way, he can say "As a psychologist, I think [some bullshit about something that has nothing to do with psychology]." This is more than enough for the College to properly reprimand him, as he's bringing the entire profession into disrepute - but they didn't even do that, they just asked him to attend a couple courses.
He could always quit the profession. He'd still have all the qualifications and accomplishments, he'd just have to talk about it in the past tense, ie when he was actually relevant.
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Freedom of speech goes to die in favour of the rainbowtards. America as a continent deserves annihilation before this fascism disguised as libertarianism spreads to better places.
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Freedom of speech IS a freedom from consequences. Sadly most people using freedom of speech term today don't understand that it doesn't apply to the context of the discussion. The whole article is just complete nonsense.