2w ago

rule

101 comments

I feel like I'm having a stroke trying to read this.

Paging that one lemming (San, or something like that I believe) that always uses the thorn in their comments, if it weren't for them, I never would've had a chance at understanding this.
Still really annoying though, ngl.
- I tracked them down and they're on piefed now and display names and such are odd over there, let me try tagging them.
  @Sxan@piefed.zip
  
  I dodn't intentionally use thorn on my midwest.social account - I only started doing it when I created a piefed account as an experiment, and anytime I use it on Midwest it's by accident - habit.
- Whimsic𐑀l ch𐑀r𐑀cters like þ𐑀t 𐑀re wh𐑀t m𐑀ke Lemmy, Lemmy.
  
  One day Lemmy will learn about the multiocular ‘o’.
- Skill issue. Just learn to read English and it'll be fine.
  
  yeah, we did, which is the reason it's annoying to see people use letters that were last used hundreds of years ago
  
  Skill issue, nauč sa Slovensky a budeš rozumieť aj tomuto.
  
  Lär dig ett språk som inte är en soppa av motstridiga regler

By the amount of hate that user is getting I hope they never stop using that. Keep strong!
- Hell, I'm almost tempted to start doing it myself.
  Not because I want to see those symbols returned but exclusively for annoying people.
  Alas, I am too lazy.
  
  A blocked user isn't very annoying, tbh
  
  exclusively for annoying people.
  Why? Are you 5 years old?
  
  Đey're a really easy þing to add to most mobile keyboards ðough, if you wanted to give it a try! Super fun too!
- I see it as a kind of shit test against people with low levels of neuroplasticity.
  ... which I entirely support.
  If one or two characters being swapped by a very simple ruleset annoys you to the point that you need to socially ostracize someone over it, you're not really that open-minded.
  If this annoys you, you should be equally annoyed by trying to read, for example, the actual text of many of the US's founding documents and other important writings from that era, because they make frequent use of what is called the 'long s', which is often rendered as something like:
  ſ - ſ - ſ - ſ
  Basically either an f without the cross bar, or even pretty much the integral symbol.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s
  The rules around the usage of this character are much less consistent than the rules being used to bring back the thorn and eth.
  If you tried the 'Ye Olde Tavern' approach with the long s, you'd end up with Mifsifsippi, or Hufband and Wife, or Fubftantive (Substantive).
  
  Language and writing constantly changes by itself, e.g. new generations start to use new short forms, etc. Why do you have to add something artificially? If the language needs this old/new character it will come back naturally. There was a reason it disappeared.
  
  It also makes things difficult for people that use text to voice due to being visually impaired.
  
  It gets under my skin because people seem to think the only ones that read their messages online are native English speakers, and totally disregard those who are perhaps learning the language.
  
  seeing what looks like "panks", "pat", and "youp" is really annoying to read because i'm not used to the shape of "th" being that of a "p" with an extra line. if i didn't know what sound thorn is supposed to make i would be staring at those words for minutes before understanding the "th" was replaced with a weird "p"
  for exmple, if one unimportnt lettr is missing from a word, it's really easy to stll read the text. but if yλu replace a letter with λne yλu're nλt used tλ reading and that lλλks nλthing like the λriginal λne, it becλmes harder and mλre annλying tλ read.
  of course thogh i changed a letter that is used in most of the sentence. it'd be harder to know what was replaced if there weren't as many of that letter.
  
  Joke's on you, I read Homestuck, I've been trained to put up with the weirdest typing quirks you can imagine.

Yah that is really annoying you're so right

Yup, still annoying.
- if it keeps going, it will eventually become invisible and then it'll be normal
  
  things can be normal and annoying

The archaic letters are one thing, but I cannot abide the comma splice!

I much prefer IPA if we’re going to change standardized written English.
- The IPA would be terrible as an English alphabet, English has like a bazillion accents so the written language would actually become less standardised. Imagine you cross the border into Scotland and now you have to put a bunch of /ɹ/s at the end of words because the local accent is rhotic.
  
  sounds fun
  
  Don't threaten me with a good time XD
  
  In fact, IPA for English used in England doesn't match the actual pronunciations.
  
  Similar problem, but we could also start using Shavian
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet
- Fascinating. How do you pronounce a joined "kp" without inadvertently inserting a glottal stop? Is there any word, in any language, that uses this?
  
  EDIT: Also, "shaded areas denote articulations judged impossible?" I just found a nice homework assignment.

the second guy is just bein an aßhole
- Correct usage of ß for idiomatic English pronunciation no less!

@Sxan@piefed.zip except only using þ not ð
- They're such a poser.

IIRC, the word translated as 'carpenter' in most versions of the bible more accurately translates as 'home builder.' In the Middle East two thousand years ago, that would have absolutely meant masonry. Jesus would have been a bear, not a twink.
- Apparently the word is tekton, which is hot as fuck.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn

I'm from Iceland and we have these letters and I think it does make some sense. English spelling is not very good and the alphabet needs some additions and simplification. These are happening today but very slowly most notably in American English but I'd like to see some development.
Þorn is a great letter, I þink it makes sense as a replacement for th like it was historically used. Adding in þe ð is overkill in my opinion since it's very þese sounds are already represented wiþ þe þorn.
You can still see it in "Ye old whatever" where þe Y is actually a Þ after a lot of iterations. It was always pronounced as a "th" sound.
- The internet is for Þorn!
  
  ;-Þ
- I fiuly agree. In fact, I have a multi-step suggestion:
  In Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet.
  The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later.
  Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.
  Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants.
  Bai iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.
  Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.
  
  By chance, have you ever read the novel Ella Minnow Pea? I feel like you might enjoy it if you haven't.
  
  Slow your roll, Twain
  
  sh → c
  ch → tc
  kh → x
  y and u have their own unqiue sounds associated with them, even if those are not used in English.
  
  I understood up to the last two paragraphs then it's gibberish
- þese sounds are already represented wiþ þe þorn
  Agreed, English orthography doesn't match pronunciation very well, but what's the point of changing th to þ if it doesn't improve that situation? In this phrase, the thorn represents two different phonemes: While terminal th may be pronounced as þ (voiceless) or ð (voiced) depending on the English dialect, for example, ðe would be a different word than þe. Adding a new letter to the alphabet just to replace a perfectly-serviceable digraph would just add another letter to the alphabet.
  If we're gonna bother, I'd say sort out the c / k / ch situation instead.
  
  100% agree, the c, k, s, ch situation is horrible in English when there are plenty of examples of doing it properly all across Europe. ch as č, ç for c that makes an s sound in case it's in front a or u like Portuguese.
  I don't have issues with English spelling personally and I like how it looks but I see it as one of the least intuitive languages to spell. Letters are silent, double, triple or quadruple duty all over with tons of exceptions. I think English could really use some diacritics like ğ, ç, š for denoting when a letter does not follow a clear and simple rule like "presšure", "thouğh" and "façade".
  But yeah, there's no forcing anything anyway ever, it's all organic evolution but now we don't have a bunch go lazy monks trying to save pen strokes to advance the writing system further.

Maybe it's because I'm overtired but I just read that normally
- I used to work with a guy, 30+ years older than me. He's the only person I heard use overtired. I doubt he's still alive.
  I never asked him, so I'll ask you- what's the difference between tired and overtired?
  
  Overtired is more tired

ȝouþ*
- Sorry, it’s just soup to me
  
  me too, it could just be random greek letters at that point and it wouldn't make a difference
- A funny thing happens when you're a language nerd and try to teach yourself different writing systems. At first my brain registered ȝ as ろ for some reason and I thought, "ro-outh?" It took a beat to remember Yogh exists.
  ... I think it's time for this dork to go back to bed

Disagree wiþ ðe second person, but to each ðeir own

to the first point, maybe he wasn't a good carpenter because he was a twink. to the second point, can i get an amen?

Life’s too short to engage with people who won’t even meet you halfway with presenting their thoughts clearly.

Look I think we can all agree that Albrecht Dürer was a hottie twink.

101 comments