China to cover all out-of-pocket childbirth expenses
The country’s birth rates have fallen for decades in part because of the one-child policy.
Desperation?
People don't want to have kids. I wonder why. Remember the laying flat movement and the 996 culture.
I wonder why.
If only there was an actual solution to this LOLOL....
If I lived under an authoritarian regime, I would not want to bring a child into it.
The truth is that the strength of a democracy has little relation to the birth rate. If you live in the US, for example, you only live in a democracy if your income is in the top 10%. This has actually been studied. The opinions of the poorest 90% of the population have absolutely zero bearing on what government policy is implemented.
The US and China actually have similar levels of democracy. China forms all its policies from the CCP, an organization of about 100 million people. The share of the population in China that has any impact on policy is actually quite similar to the share that does the same in the US.
Ehh, the character of the regime doesn't seem to affect birth rates a whole lot. Brutal dictatorships that make China seem like a gentle puppy could have perfectly ok birth rates. E.g. Nazi Germany had 2.5 fertility rate in 1939 and 1940, it was their highest since 1922: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany
I really don't think the average Chinese cares too much about how authoritarian their govt is when it comes to deciding on whether to have kids. The consequences of one-child policy, economic prospects, stability, general cultural optimism/pessimism, social habits (and the effects of technology on them), etc. are all likely to be much more important factors.
I live in a democracy and don't want to bring children into this.
HCOL, many graduates are having impossible time of finding jobs, plus china trying to lure graduates/phd from the states has incensed them as well.
Good thing they made actual unions illegal in the Workers' Paradise ™️.
Whenever I see that, I love to remind people, than Tienanmen Protesta were (partly) against China pivot from communism to capitalism - this article summarizes it nicely: https://jacobin.com/2019/06/tiananmen-square-worker-organization-socialist-democracy
Good. Can’t wait to beat this drum to hopefully shame the less than useless US congress to do ANYTHING.
I mean, shaming America's greatness against other countries has worked in the past. That's how we got:
Oh wait.
It's great, but I had kind of assumed it was already in place.
China has a far weaker social safety net than a lot of people assume.
That also apparently depends a lot on the particular region's policies. Which aren't as centralized as everyone in the West imagines.
I asumed little, but childbirth I thought would.
From Bars, Pride and dating apps: How China is closing down its LGBT+ spaces
At the same time, China’s population growth and economy are slowing. “The current population growth couldn't support economic growth,” explains Hongwei, meaning there has been a push to encourage heterosexual couples to have larger families to ensure an abundant future workforce.
If we close gay bars, gay people will be straight right?
The notion of homosexuality as a sexual orientation didn't exist until recently.
People had gay relationships and did gay sex but they'd also tend to get married and pump out a kid or two. I'm assuming while being gay on the side.
Maybe the answer is less about punishing homosexuality than it is about applying extreme social pressure on monogamy?
IMO monogamy does more damage to society than all the gay in the known universe ever possibly could. The fact that homosexuality doesn't do any damage at all, really, is a factor as well.
does this apply if one of the parents was not chinese?
Probably not. Probably need a certain social credit score and last name
Social credit scores only apply to companies 😭
Please learn how the 'social credit' system actually works before spouting off
Anything to help people that want to have children is good.
that want to have children
As long as people who don't want to have children aren't pressured. Not everyone is interested in parenting, and that needs to be accepted.
China isn't good about things like that. They have billions of people, they aren't going to worry about the feelings of those not contributing to the machine.
nah, disagree. not anything.
Childbirth costs isn't what's preventing people from having babies though
You're right, falling birth rates are affecting people in rich and poor countries alike.
I think the answer is more complicated and has a lot to do with our collective psychology as a species, what we're consuming and what we're feeling about our futures.
That said, money and cost do play a huge role in this. People have complicated feelings on having families right now, and the barrier of cost is a great idea for the brain to seize onto as a validation for avoiding continuation of the species.
Given how overpopulated the planet is, I'm not a fan
It's the planet's own fault for allowing life in the first place
I mean there is only one planet we know of that has life, why shouldn't it be infested with it
That seems somewhat unfair towards people with other interests who aren't being subsidized.
Sadly, when it comes down to it, children are necessary for society to function long-term. They are the people who will be financing and effecting your retirement, at least in a well-functioning society. I think it is a sound policy to make sure people can have children without any unnecessary suffering, there's plenty of necessary suffering in there already.
China is thinking long-term and practical. If they lose their young work-force it won't matter what those "other people" are doing or not.
Someone in China told me once that one of the biggest differences between China and Europe/USA is that in the west we think in terms of years or decades. In China they are making plans for the next several centuries.
This isn't a glowing endorsement of the heinous shit China has done, but it should at least make you understand that this isn't a social welfare program designed to help families as much as the first of many measures to fight the forces that are eroding the power and production capability of other countries. If you want to see how bad it can get, look into what the future holds for South Korea.
Lol, and BangCrash went out of their way to be offended by my comment in this post.
BTW, I'm not attacking you and don't really care. I just feel that I was unfairly singled out.
I agree with this in the basis of the thought. But depending on the social security in various countries there are groups that abuse this help. So I'm hoping that loopholes are plugged at the same time.
How could you abuse this? If I have a child and get my medical costs covered, I don't get any additional benefits if I ditch the child.
I find it funny to watch these countries having issues with people not wanting to have babies.
There are core reasons behind this, one large one being "raising a child is expensive and all the world's money is being sucked up by billionaires, there is nothing left for children". Another one (for certain countries like Japan and South Korea) is the "work 80 hours a week and never see that family you're supposed to raise"
And governments go like "sooooo, if we cover child birth, you're good, right? What? Still nothing? We tried nothing and we're all out of ideas, how oh how can we solve this?"
Fuck the rich, end the rich. That will get births back to a healthy 2.1
officials have already expanded maternity leave benefits and housing subsidies to encourage couples to have more children.
Seems like they’re trying multiple things. Meanwhile we’re over here trying to say middle school kids can be paid less than minimum wage, operate dangerous machinery and work late on school nights. If you can’t afford kids, might as well exploit them
It's like if 200 million of China workforce were gig workers or something.
If they're are covered, why or how are they out of pocket?
I think once they are covered, they will no longer be uncovered. I.e. no longer be out of pocket.
Still you have to pay to raise them, which I’m guessing is the main factor for people not to want children. Which I suppose is what the government is trying to encourage here.
This seems like overcompensating for the child limit. Are they going to be like a yoyo, swinging from one extreme to the other until they find a balance, like all things should be?
No country has increased birth rates sustainably without major coersion. China is still using soft coercion and offering incentives.
the ROI is they get future foot soldiers
They already have a glut of military aged males with no marriage prospects, if they were serious about invading Taiwan, they could only do it now (also aligns with the fact that America has become more isolationist, Japan hasn't a serious standing army yet etc.)
If they are planning for the future, it's not military, it's societal.
They don't have universal healthcare?
Also DYK China now has a 3 child policy. Maximum, that is.
I wish the USA did. Quiverfull is a bane.
no.. they canceled that, and now want you to pop out as many slaves as possible
no… they canceled that
This shit is so easy to check before you click "reply" I have no idea why we can't be asked to spend several seconds on a basic google search before spilling whatever is on our mind. You can hate China for whatever reasons, but let's not share factually incorrect information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-child_policy
edit: why am I not at all surprised your mod history is filled with hate towards Asian people.
And then they help pay the roughly $15,000 usd per yr per child it costs to raise a child right?
Becauae it would be really bad if China helped pay for a ton of kids to be born that can't be provided for.
Kids can pull themselves up by the bootstraps... factories are hiring...
/s
I take it they removed the two child limit?
Yes , back in 2021.
they did a long time ago, but thier 1 child policy had generational effect, too little women and too much men ratio, plus other problems like job prospects outside of university(mostly around engineering, and other stems) too much graduates for too small of a pool for jobs.
and the rising COL in the country too, and the CCP trying to lure USA Scientists for job hunting as gotten the netizens incensed. in hindsight chinese citizens arnt having childrens because of that, so ccp might blowing smoke, if they dont solve the underlying issues.(not to mention the evergrande situation happened too.
I also read claims the one-child limit became socially engrained. So even once they lifted it, it was not very socially acceptable
The solution is to pay workers enough so that the government doesn't need to shift the burden of paying for children to those who don't even have any.
As always, the money needs to come from the people at the top. As always, privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
That doesn't make any sense.
Paying workers more is fine, but you're saying that the costs for reproduction should come from parents, and then you're saying they should come from the rich. People without children should contribute to childcare costs, and they are incentivized to do so, too, because children are important to pretty much everything. By having the government fund childcare, the rich do contribute more.
Whatever you said is inconsistent.
I don't know, it makes a lot of sense, in an asinine way. Many people are self-centered and incredibly selfish. Of course we all benefit from living in a world where children are happy, fed, cared for, and well adjusted. But for folks without kids, it's usually indirect, rather than direct benefits, making it harder to quantify.
But, their property taxes that fund schools are easy to quantify, so the selfish get grumpy about it.
It's like not wanting your tax dollars to fund cancer research, because you don't have cancer. It makes no sense, until you remember the person talking is a selfish dunce.
The solution is to pay workers enough so that the government doesn’t need to shift the burden of paying for children to those who don’t even have any.
I know you're banned, and this comment tells me a lot about why that probably happened without me having to dig through the mod history.
This is some pro-capitalism slop even if you think it's so far left it has tank treads. This is a surefire tactic to put a nation's healthcare in the same situation the US is in now. Without a total reform of the entire economic foundation of a country, you are simply NOT fucking getting a government who will tax their wealthy to keep up with whatever the healthcare system is charging for their procedures.
This is why healthcare is more complicated than lopping off the heads of the elites and spreading that money. We have to make systems that ensure no single person or institution is left on the hook for figuring out what to charge or pay.
edit: the comment gets worse the more I reread it.
doesn’t need to shift the burden of paying for children to those who don’t even have any
This is the very fundamental principle of having healthcare, whether it's private or public, it's very expensive and resource-intensive to keep people broadly alive and healthy, you absolutely cannot start deciding who gets this funding and who doesn't deserve it if you want a fair system, and it feels like everyone (people like you) really get bent out of shape about this right up until YOU are the special case who needs society to pool our resources to help you with your stupid problem. Then suddenly the "social contract" that made you so mad previously seems like a pretty good idea. FFS I am so fed up with narrow-minded children weighing in on shit they have no understanding of.
Everyone has been born so everyone should have had a free birth. I do agree that workers need better pay but certain expenses should be handled by the government only. It's not gonna properly optimize itself by supply and demand when we as a society benefit in more children.