Does Lemmy have more freedom of speech than Reddit?
Hello, Im kind of new here and trying to get used to Lemmy and I was wondering about if this is true since I am considering donating on this site to support alternative projects but wanted to hear other users before doing so. That being said, what have been your experiences?
What makes Lemmy different from Reddit is that if some moderator or admin is limiting your freedom of speech, you can run your own instance with your own rules and communities and still be on Lemmy. Reddit can ban you from Reddit, but Lemmy is like a collection of "reddits" that integrate and there is no central authority. To answer your question, as a user you have more freedom to find an instance with rules that align with your values and wishes, and you always have the option to create your own instance, and no one can stop you. If you say things that other people don't want to hear, they might block you, but that doesn't limit your freedom of speech.
thank you so much
I would add to this that there is significant controversy around the ideological alignment of the lemmy developers, and most people would find the political leanings of the instances they're associated with to be... unpalatable.
I'll leave you to undertake that journey of discovery for yourself, suffice to say that freedom of speech is particularly limited on those instances.
Other software operates in the fediverse and is interoperable with lemmy. For example, myself and the commenter you replied to are registered with piefed servers, while this post is on a lemmy server.
If you say things that other people don't want to hear, they might block you, but that doesn't limit your freedom of speech.
So it is like Trump's own 'social' media: I make my own and there I can say all kinds of bull that nobody wants to hear 🤣
lol look at the modlog
at least lemmy makes that public
Technically, yeah. Some instances are run by tin-pot dictators with delusions of godhood, but if you get banned from one of those just switch to another one.
The communities tend to be bubblier, though, since they're small. So if your opinions don't match you'll get shouted down harder.
The hive is a lot more arrogant here.
There is one nice feature that pushes back against hive-mindedness here that Reddit lacks, at least; you can see your upvote and downvote totals rather than just the single aggregate total. Reddit used to be like that years ago but they got rid of it.
That means that if you say something that gets a ton of both downvotes and upvotes you can at least know that there were a significant number of people who liked it it. Over on Reddit saying anything that netted negative karma felt like screaming into the void.
Oh, and the small population means that downvoted comments are still likely easy to see. That helps too.
Still, the Fediverse does feel more strongly bubbled than Reddit does, from my subjective and anecdotal position.
which bubble am I in now?
10 hours ago over in lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world you saw a picture that you rather liked but that was getting a lot of downvotes and you didn't know why. You were told by @breadleyloafsyou@lemmy.zip that "lemmy doesn’t like AI"
Also 10 hours ago over in nostupidquestions@lemmy.world you said "I know its an unpopular opinion, but I don't agree with punching Nazis. It makes them look like a victim, and violence never works." You got a bunch of downvotes for that yourself.
Just a couple of examples of situations where an opinion that was against the consensus view of the community got "punished."
Absolutely.
It's not even a debate.
My 13 year old Reddit account was perma-banned without warning for saying "PUNCH A NAZI". Let's test that out here.
PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI
And that was just my first of probably 30-40 Reddit accounts before I finally said fuck it and came here. I'm not some asshole purposefully posting asshole shit I know I'm going to get banned for. Reddit is just that pathetic.
It's just that I have zero patience for dipshits posting misinformation (as should we all) and I'm not afraid to let them know it. Lemmy gives me that liberty. Thanks Lemmy!!!
RUSSIA/CHINA PUNCH
You are now dogpiled on and banned from Lemmy.ml and Hexbear
Step on an eggshell about gender identity that rubs someone the wrong way
You are vilified and immediately banned from lemmy.blahaj.zone
Let's be real, your example only works because the mods and admins agree that we should punch nazis.
Whoa whoa whoa there.
On Reddit you can say whatever you want.
As long as everyone likes what you say.
Fuck that insipid septic tank to death.
Uhh something more relevant here would be PUNCH A COMMIE!
It depends what you mean. Individual instances have their own approach to moderation, which influences what you will see and have access to. Some are more hands off than others. But if your "free speech" is really just looking for a free pass to hate on folk, then you won't have much luck with lemmy. There are instances that allow that, but most other instances block them.
I mean if mods ban people for not agreeing with them basically.
Stay free of .ml, they’re the worst of the bunch when it comes to this.
Again, it depends on what you mean. You're not really saying what these things are that you expect to disagree on, and that's the important bit.
Depends on the substance of the disagreement imo
Entirely depends on the disagreement. There are instances and communities where bigotry is tolerated. I do not frequent them. I would very much like the mods of the communities I use to continue banning people that disagree with them about things like basic human rights and hate. People are free to share their opinions on basically anything most places on the fediverse. Just don't be a dick, you should be fine. If the "freedom of speech" you're looking for is the freedom to be racist, homophobic, transphobic, or generally hateful, you'll probably be disappointed.
It has just as much freedom as any other platform. It all depends on who the admins and moderators are. We do have better tools of keeping those in check, with the modlog being publicly available tho.
The modlog can be scrubbed, though. Afaik, if a mod bans someone and removes the user's content at once, the modlog only logs the ban but all the comments are removed without a trace.
short answer: yes
medium answer: depends on what instance you're on
I would say, Lemmy (or the Fediverse in general is just like real life. You can say anything you want, but don't expect anyone to invite you to their party or talk to you, if you are being an jerk.
Meaning, that noone can ban you from Lemmy for anything you say. But they certainly can ban you from their own instance and / or not federate with an instance, you are on if they don't like what you say.
Also, as a general word of advice, just be a decent, nice person and you'll probably be fine. Online or offline. A major idea of the fediverse is to imagine and be part of a better world and if we engage with each other respectfully, everyone is better off.
Moderation exists but it is built by the community at large, not corporate overlords. That may mean that harmful speech is removed more aggressively than on corporate sites. On most corporate media sites, bigotry or trolling has to be extremely overt before it is removed. On the other hand, the nature of Lemmy (and the fediverse in general) is that it's a fairly low cost of entry, so there are many different people running many different instances, each with their own governance.
Try it out for a week or two, and if you find it worthwhile enough that you check it daily, I think it's very nice donate to the person/people running your instance. It helps with the cost of running it.
There are no ads, no corporate content, no manipulative algorithm.
We are not perfect, but we're a lot better than most of what's out there. We're a little bit weird, and most of our jokes are about Star Trek or canned produce (for reasons no one understands), but it's a pretty cool place.
There are no ads, no corporate content
I wish that were true, but if you haven't seen any, thank your moderators.
And if you have seen any, you can block them and they actually go away.
Instead of a placebo "stop seeing this ad" button.
Well hey, that's why I report any I see to the moderators :D
(And unlike corporate platforms they'll actually parse it lol)
Absolutely! It's not that corpos don't try. It's just not endorsed or supported by the community and is usually removed swiftly.
or canned produce (for reasons no one understands)
I think the beans speak for themselves, as does the corn. Does it need any more explaining?
freedom of speech means the government can't arrest you for speaking up. Neither lemmy nor reddit are the government, so freedom of speech does not apply.
Which word or phrase do you suggest we should use instead for the idea of freedom of speech applied on a private level? Where in this case the instance admin takes on the role of regulating what can or can't be communicated on their instance.
Yeah, you're right (and smart.)
There is no concept of freedom of speech if not formalized from a state.
just as I'm free to kick anyone out of my house if they start spewing bullshit, so is anyone else. Being kicked out of someone else's property because they don't like you has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
You don’t have freedom of speech on any site. Freedom of speech is freedom from the government restricting your speech, not private organizations.
That said, yes. I got banned from Reddit for merely suggesting that people who harm children should face stiffer penalties. I’ve said that many times here and even pissed off some pedophiles here, but never got banned or suspended for it. I think Lemmy takes a bit more of a hands off approach.
Consider: what I say about Reddit isn’t going to affect Reddit at all. But someone like me says bad things about Lemmy, it might have more of an effect. Smaller sites pick their battles more carefully. Bigger sites don’t care.
But even more than that, Lemmy is federated. That means your instance — lemmy.org — can ban you, and you can just join another, like db0 (what I’m on) or hexbear. We’re on different instances but we’re still able to interact.
Ive made many comments that go against the general view of the user base. It gets downvoted but never deleted or banned. So I would say its pro free speech.
Not in my experience. I've gotten into an argument while specifically pleading against sharing screen-wide, zoomed-in images of common phobias like spiders without a spoiler/NSFW out of basic consideration.
Not only did people go out of their way to misunderstand what I was saying, but I got too many wholly nasty replies, and then got banned for reporting someone else for actually breaking the sub and site-wide rules, and was accused of being a "well-known troll" in the modlog. The fuck?
Needless to say, I got the mod to unban me when I called them out in another thread, and they eventually apologized.
But the knee-jerk reaction, close-mindedness, and immediate hate that I got felt a lot like the prejudice I've seen with homophobia. It's so exhausting to see these prejudices and attitudes so readily prop up in unexpected places, especially in a forum where you'd think people know better.
Hell yeah.
Now, will people disagree with you in very emotional ways, downvote without giving any explanation, etc etc.? Sure! But you won't get banned for opposing Western imperialism, for instance. I mean, I talk about God and give people shit for being vacuous, hedonistic and self-centered (because that's at the core of many sociocultural issues) and I haven't been banned, at most I get boo'd. 😅
opposing Western imperialism
I get the sentiment, but this usually boils down to blaming everyone on the Western hemisphere for what the US is doing.
I really wish these attitudes would take into account the other dozen countries like my own that largely keep to themselves.
So yeah, boo!
There is three questions to consider.
One is the site itself. Reddit inc has their own policies that apply site-wide no matter what. Lemmy has no central organization like that, although each individual server operator has their own acceptable use policy for what they allow on their server. This means it is both more free and more confusing- if you want to post potentially objectionable content like porn, there are plenty of servers that allow it or you can always run your own, but you have to make sure you are on one.
Next is individual group moderation. Both Reddit and Lemmy have this, community level moderators that apply whatever standards particular community requires. There is much less of the 'power mod on a power trip' situation than on Reddit currently, at least in my experience. I think some of that is because the overall traffic level is less, so it will be interesting to see what happens as Lemmy grows.
Finally there is culture and self-moderation. You see this on mass market platforms like Instagram and TikTok, where someone will say like they were roped at a party and want to buy a pewpew to unalive themself or some other such bullshit. Unfortunately that brain rot is spreading into Reddit, even though it is not at all required. Fortunately Lemmy seems pretty free of that so far.
I'd say yes, reddit is overmoderated
I’d actually consider Lemmy’s freedom of speech to be very similar to the US. Nobody on the network can limit your speech in your own instance but nobody has to platform your terrible speech and everyone is free to ignore your speech and exclude you to just participating on your own instance.
Freedom of speech. Yeah, sorta.
Freedom from consequences of your speech. Nope.
The consequences are getting downvoted and ending up in ridiculous arguments sometimes, it barely counts, lol. Bans are very rare from what I've seen, but then again they're rarely necessary.
Freedom of speech. Yeah, sorta.
Freedom from consequences of your speech. Nope.
They are exactly the same thing.
A lot of people seem to be looking for safe places where they can spew whatever hate they have in their heart and not risk being criticised for it or banned for acting like a brownhole. Better make it clear for people probing the Fediverse.
lemmy isnt really an organization. its a platform that is then utilized by hundreds of different operators/groups implementing their own rules against much of the same content. there are many of these platforms that all offer differing capabilities and features while sharing a lot of the same content. this network is what we refer to as the fediverse.
the reddit-like side is the threadiverse and is mimicked by platforms like lemmy.
then there is the twitter-like (microblog) side i call the twitterverse and is mimicked by platforms like mastodon.
then you have platforms that can access both sides of the fediverse like piefed and mbin.
as for censorship...
its the beauty of this network' if one of those servers goes apeshit people can literally just move their 'subreddit' to a different server and tell the og one to fuck right off. this has happened a few times in different ways. users created new subs on other servers and effectively ignored the original, with no one having to make new accounts. it proves the idea.. no one person or company can control the content of the fediverse.
“Freedom of speech” is such a fraught concept. Define your terms.
This place has moderation…but it’s not the same as Reddit with their broad autoban system that the sub moderators tend to exploit. It depends on what you say.
I’m pretty new…but it’s apples and oranges. You’re a lot less likely to be baited into disingenuous arguments designed to make you angry to maximize engagement, here. People tend to post and comment in earnest.
Best to donate to another project besides lemmy.
The main dev for lemmy is kind of a shitty person who is not shy about their shitty beleifs.
He supports authoritarians and dictatorships and bans anyone who doesn't excuses the human rights abuses of dictatorships.
It does, outside of truly bad stuff or straight-up spam and such, you can just about say whatever here where Reddit will ding you if you sneeze wrong, seemingly, especially nowadays after they tightened up censorship over there.
Also, unlike Reddit, if you don't like a given Lemmy instance, you can either move to another or even host your own, where with Reddit, it's either their way or the highway as it's a centralized, closed platform.
Your question doesn't make sense. "freedom of speech" is a political right to prevent government censorship. Internet forums have moderation and that's different from censorship because it's a private space.
If someone came to your house and started insulting you and your family would you tolerate it in the name of freedom or would you tell the jerk to shut up and get out?
I know what freedom of speech really means im a political science masters degree student at the moment. I didnt mean the constitution when i said "freedom of speech". Im just asking if mods ban people basically for not agreeing with their opinions.
The problem is that Nazis love to appeal to some hypothetical right to freedom of speech, because they want to shift the Overton window. That is why people are being particular with the wording here and why your post is getting downvotes.
It also makes it hard to answer, because, well, if you are a Nazi, expect to be banned from various communities and instances significantly faster than on Reddit. Supporting the harm of others is not an opinion worth tolerating.
The moderators on my instance have banned people for repeatedly asking what exactly is allowed to be said, and I've come to support that decision, because yeah, Overton window and all that.
There is nothing inherently built into Lemmy that protects freedom of speech over Reddit other that being able to host your own instance.
I agree, but I do think that's the most important thing.
In some ways yes, and in others no. On Reddit, shitheels like UniversalMonk and all of his sock puppets, along with Dragonfuck would have been banned a long time ago.
Certainly less aggressive admins and auto mods.
I was using Lemmy And am now on piefed and I can say that Lemmy feels more free from reddit. I find my stuff getting removed less and if it did, the mods would have actual reasons for it rather than reddit mods which removed stuff because they felt like it. There's still the mob mentality with down votes and people still mass down vote things they don't like though
Well lemmy hasn’t banned me for pointing out that a prisoner who is still alive hasn’t finished serving their life sentence
Yes. Reddit is now beholden to corporate interest, and posts comments that go against those interest get deleted and users get banned. Once you're banned, there's no creating a new account because they IP block. Fuck reddit, long live lemmy.
In some cases yes, in others, no. It really depends on the community and instance.
Lemmy has the potential to facilitate free speech discussions, but unfortunately a lot of its users actively suppress the idea because they like censoring their opposition.
Says the two day old account...
No, it's only on the other direction of extremism.
No... thats not really a thing here anyway. But yeah. I may have been totally banned several times, hearsay. I might get banned again just for saying that. Its usually shortly after I reveal some of my awesome political opinions... /s There really is only a couple handfuls of folks posting content too. Watch for P icarrd maneuver, p ugjebus, c owbea, and some others. They post shit all hours of the day constantly, to dozens of different instances like it's their job... but they certainly aren't getting paid.
No, I dont care about getting banned anyway, im going to speak my mind. Unfortunately, Marxist and commies dont usually agree with me and is usually the point of contention.