2w ago

‘R-tarded’ is a slur, and I’m sick of otherwise “liberal” people going along with the right’s move to renormalize it

There’s a clear campaign against the mentally ill with the global rise of fascism. Lots of it shows up in anti homeless rhetoric, but you can see it in the MAHA and anti vaccination movements.

There’s no reason to use the word “r-tarded” to describe someone. As someone who’s worked with the intellectually challenged, it’s an insult to them to compare them with people who are willfully ignorant.

412 comments

There's a historical cycle where the helping professions rotate the terminology out, as the wider culture overloads the old terms with insulting usage. Eventually the new vernacular leaks out into general parlance and the cycle cycles. "removed" was once acceptable clinical terminology because "idiot, "moron", and "imbecile" had accumulated cultural baggage. The latter terms were, themselves, once politically correct alternatives to even older terms.
I think it's naive to think that THIS time is special, and today's politically correct terminology won't ever leak out into common usage as a slur too.
- If a group of people are telling me this word was and continues to be used as a dehumanizing slur, that’s enough for me to look into a vocabulary change. More importantly, the very existence of a euphemism treadmill shows that you can’t stop at language change, and that disabled people need to be much more fully accepted in society.
  
  I got a lot of hate in this thread but I agree with you. We need to much more accepting of people in society disabled or just different. A word change makes you feel good but doesn't actually do anything. A business with a curb should be required to have a ramp also, for wheelchairs. I wish there was a some sort of option for drive-thru for deaf people. A person with autism who gets overly stimulated by people close should be allowed to ask for personal distance.
- Which gets to the larger problem - the dehumanization of people with intellectual and cognitive disabilities. Being such a person is considered such a bad thing that it can be used as an insult. Whatever terminology we use, people with cognitive delays are just as human, just as valuable as anyone else.
  
  Being such a person is considered such a bad thing that it can be used as an insult.
  I mean, yes? Ultimately that's exactly what an insult is. Think of the other words we use as curses and insults. Asshole. Mother fucker. removed. Cunt. Dick. Shit(head). Dumbass. Pendejo. Cabron.
  Do you want to be something stinky (asshole, cunt, dick, shit), or something disliked (removed, mother fucker)? Do you want to be like the people who the terms moron, idiot, imbecile, removed, handicapped, or disabled are describing? Hell, extend it to other things. If someone 6 feet tall was calling you, a 5'4" man, a midget, it's not like your height suddenly will change if the term is accepted for you, it's because you don't want to be perceived as someone short enough to be termed appropriately as such.
  And as much as we can all consider everyone human to be just as valuable as any other human, people aren't suddenly going to want to be short, or have low intelligence / ability to learn/comprehend/adapt. This is why I ultimately have given up on policing the language in general. We are forever locked into the cycle of words becoming inappropriate, because the vast majority of folks genuinely abhor the idea of becoming something like those words are describing, whether its mental ability, height, likeability, worth, etc. You're not going to change that, ever.
  
  People with cognitive delays are just as human and just as valuable as anyone else
  Precisely! 100% agree.
  I also want to add that I don't disagree with people who say that there's a cyclical pattern with words becoming taboo and being replaced. That's obviously a fact. But the fact that language evolves doesn't give us license to be assholes.
  Ultimately, the only thing that will improve things is educating the average person about the topic. But calling out ableist language - whether the person using such language intends that meaning or not - is often a good starting point for education (for those willing to learn.)
  Also, what most people don't understand is that developmental delays and cognitive deficiencies are a spectrum and can occur across different types of cognition. For example, I'm what today you might call "doubly special" - I was far ahead in some areas but far behind in others. I still am, to a degree.
  So should people use the names for people like me to refer to assholes who intentionally hurt other people's feelings? I certainly wouldn't like it if they did. Regardless of how much I might accidentally piss people off or hurt their feelings, it's rarely my intention to make people feel that way and and I'd rather not have someone else's moral failing conflated with my struggle to communicate in ways most people understand.
- Placing bets. 30 years from now "Autistic" is going to be on the same chopping block. It's already making it's rounds as a general insult with the kids, just like removed did when I was growing up.
  
  If anything isn't using the currently still correct medical term as an insult more offensive than using the outdated one that has become a generic insult? At least as far as being offensive to people with the condition, rather than those offended on their behalf.
  
  It already is.
- I think it's naive to think that THIS time is special, and today's politically correct terminology won't ever leak out into common usage as a slur too.
  I think it's naive to think that at those times in the past the people who used clinical terms as insults weren't doing something bad so that we shouldn't worry about it happening today.
- Neurospicy
- Right, so then we rotate words again. This isn't hard. We're not trying to find the One True Politically Correct Term; we're arguing that one (1) specific word has a negative bias and we need to stop using it.

i'm austistic and love the word removed, really don't understand peoples need to be offended for others. it's not remotely close to the n-word, saying "r-word" just makes you seem like a tool imo
- Look we can't call each other removed because other people will get triggered for us...
  Besides every sane person knows that in common speech this is just means "extremely stupid" with no derogatory intent.
  
  "extremely stupid" with no derogatory intent.
  I think you should look up the definition of derogatory. Calling someone stupid is derogatory.
- But OP worked with "intellectually challenged" ???
  Jfc can't even call myself removed without offending an unrelated neuro-typical "standing up" for us.

These stupid wars on words IMHO is the reason why "liberals" were regarded as a joke prior to trump election
Like banning "master" in github as well as dumb, regex based words filters in chats. Oh you want to mention the "beta version"? Too bad, a social justice warrior decided that "beta" is now offensive, you have to change your language so that you wont affect the hypothetic easily offendable persons
- Like banning "master" in github as well as dumb
  Master wasn't banned. The default name was changed from master to main. Literally nothing is stopping you from choosing to use master.
  
  While this is technically correct, when you say "we're switching the default branch name from master to main to be less culturally insensitive", you kind of imply that people who continue using master are culturally insensitive. And nobody likes being called that (generally), so it still feels like a ban to people.
  
  While they are incorrect about the specific term, their main point is correct. "Slave" was removed from the terminology. Same with Blacklist and Whitelist. They are no longer the preferred terms.
  
  "Morally banning". But you got my point

Here's the thing, the word doesn't matter... It's the intent. For example if I said "well aren't you a fucking genius" and meant it sarcastically that's just as insulting. I could also say "you gobflecker" in a aggressive tone that also bad.
An example is the old show red dwarf. The replaced every curse word with smeg. Smeg doesn't mean anything. But in the show when one character calls another a "smeghead". You know it's not nice and meant to be an insult even though they never said or explained that in the show.
Banning a word won't do anything. Ban the attitude and change people's opinions and you can change the world. For example women, not saying they are treated well by everyone but compared to 200 years ago? Or even further back? For example there was a "treatment" for women who dared consider working. They were basically forced to bed and forced to stay there only hand few broth for 6 months. They literally just had to lay there, no talking no reading no such thing as a video. Today they are treated much better, it wasn't by banning the world girl or removed or vagina or anything it was by changing people's perception.
- Yeah. We've been down this road before. Believe it or not but all those african american navy seals with gay brothers who also were active duty military? Yeah, they were just shitty white kids who wanted to say nr and ft a lot. Who'da thunk it?
  No. It is about showing the absolute bare minimum of human decency to change your vocabulary and avoid using slurs that people have to constantly hear from people who AREN'T actually african american navy seals with gay brothers and all that.
  Ban the attitude and change people’s opinions and you can change the world.
  And a huge chunk of that is to stop saying fucking slurs.
  but compared to 200 years ago? Or even further back?
  Homie... are you ACTUALLY playing the "You could be property so shut the fuck up if I want to say a slur" card?
  Also, I strongly suggest anyone who thinks "history" was a no woman's land or was all about racial purity to actually do some research. Shockingly, things were actually a LOT more "progressive" than they would expect with most bigotry and hatred being more oriented towards killing those Others across the channel. Most of the "We used to be a whole lot more racist and sexist" is, shockingly, from racist and sexist people who want to "make
  <insert country>
  great again".
  
  Nope, I am not saying you could be property so shut up. I'm saying the progress we made was not based on language.
  
  Ban the attitude and change people’s opinions and you can change the world.
  And a huge chunk of that is to stop saying fucking slurs.
  Thank you for this, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these comments. I'm shocked how hard this is to grasp for people.
- Absolutely recommend you try this out with some slurs on people of various races and see if saying "the word doesn't matter" stops them from beating the shit out you lol
  
  lol, removed isnt even close to the n-word and it's annoying as fuck when people try to compare the two.
  there's a joke (john mullaney, i think?) that goes if you got two words...and one word you won't even say...that word is the worse word
  
  What's up my nigga got widely used without insulting anyone
- The word doesn't matter, it's the intent.
  Eh, maybe, but words communicate intent. By stigmatizing certain messaging - which can include both reserving certain words for only certain use cases and also shaming people who express bigotry regardless of what word they happen to choose - we communicate to third party observers that such views are not welcome in our society. Will it change the mind of the person using those words? Probably not, but avoiding hurtful words still has a great deal of positive social utility.
  
  I don't know, I don't think the specific word is that meaningful. A new slur will likely be made for mentally disabled people, then it will get pushback and then another one will be made.
  If I translated it to hindi or German or swahili it wouldn't mean anything but if I walked up to you and yelled them at you you would probably be hurt. If I said them lovingly and softly you probably would be comforted.
  The problem with having these conversations on the internet is there is no way to express that so... Maybe... I could see the point of banning potentially offensive words in text on the internet.
- I'm unaware of an existent group of people for whom the term "smeg" is or historically was thier actual designation?
  It isn't about not insulting someone, it's about using language that refers to actual people who haven't done anything wrong.
  It's like if suddenly everyone decided to call a pedophile a Vrek. You maybe wouldn't love that suddenly people are invoking YOU to talk about pedophiles.
  That's the kind of collateral damage people are trying to avoid.
  I've for sure said things are removed. I'm no saint. I've got mixed feelings... but I think your take on the subject is poorly informed. I think you've missed the entire premise of the argument against using the word.
  
  So it seems like we are going to have to wait until impaired, challenged and disabled are turned into slurs by the overly-sensitive so removed can achieve the neutral status of idiot, dumb, stupid, moron and imbecile - words that removed used to be considered the politically correct alternative.
  
  My point with smeg was that it was a made up word. But you could figure out the intent purely by context.
  Again it comes to context, if you intend to hurt a person the word is meaningless.
  
  That dude's a fucking Vrek, goddamn.
- "Smeg" does mean something. Its the white crap that forms under your foreskin if you never wash your dick.
  
  Its also an upmarket brand of kitchen appliance. But you are thinking of smegma, not smeg.
- Here’s the thing, the word doesn’t matter… It’s the intent. For example if I said “well aren’t you a fucking genius” and meant it sarcastically that’s just as insulting. I could also say “you gobflecker” in a aggressive tone that also bad.
  That's how I insult here: write scathing vitriol that replaces derogatory words with equivalent meanings, condescendingly disparages generalities about the insultee without referring to them specifically. It offends them more & makes a better insult.
- For example there was a “treatment” for women who dared consider working. They were basically forced to bed and forced to stay there only hand few broth for 6 months
  Yeah, I'm gonna need a source on this because it sounds like a wild facebook post.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_rest look under the history tab.

I've stopped using it as people have pointed out it's hurtful, but I've never fully understood why. To me it's in the same group as idiot, fool, lunatic, imbecile and cretin. Words that aren't used to describe conditions anymore, only used as insults. While they can be used with hatred, they can also be used in a teasing way with friends. To me it doesn't reach the level of racist, sexist and homophobic slurs.
I wanted to learn more and found a paper that makes the case that ableist insults are slurs. Download it here
- I think it's more about the idea that it's shameful to be less able than someone else. The core idea here is that there's nothing wrong with being less intelligent than average, and calling out people's choice of words is only one part of that.
  It's like when people make fun of Trump's weight/diet or RFK Jr.'s voice. I dislike those two just as much as the next person, but there's nothing immoral or shameful about having a vocal condition, being overweight, or having a monotonous diet. And any health concerns (e.g. weight) should be left between a person and their doctor.
  If you choose to make those things a subject of your ridicule, all it does is mark you as a shallow person, and I'm probably going to tune you out as someone who doesn't have anything of substance to say.
  
  I think it's more about the idea that it's shameful to be less able than someone else. The core idea here is that there's nothing wrong with being less intelligent than average, and calling out people's choice of words is only one part of that.
  That argument isn't specific to any particular word though. You could say it about any word that insults intelligence, not just the one in question here.
- To me it’s in the same group as idiot, fool, lunatic, imbecile and cretin.
  Because it is: look up the origins of those words.

Honestly, it’s not a word in my vocabulary but I think this opinion is moronic, idiotic even.
The only reason it continues to be offense to those living with mental disabilities is because there are people like yourself who keep attributing the word to them.
- Oh oh do the n-word!
  
  The n-word isn't going through a continuous euphemism tread mill, unlike how r word variants continue to go through. That, I think, makes it substantially different --- though in truth it's the same for it as well

So the solution to mean people co-opting medical language to be bullies is to ....move to another term and change the vernacular we accept from doctors so they use different words the bullies can then co-opt?
Have you tried an approach that isn't running and hiding?
- The euphemism treadmill. It's pretty...uhhhh......dumb
- Have you tried an approach that isn’t running and hiding?
  How brave and courageous of you to checks notes use slurs.
- Hi, healthcare worker here. The r-slur hasn't been used in the medical profession for decades. But hey, feel free to come up with more justifications for why it's totally fine for you to call people slurs.

I love the word removed. I care about people with intellectual disabilities. I don't mean them when I say it.
- Imo idiot should be considered just as offensive to people who want to ban the word removed. It's pretty much got the exact same history and stigma connected to it. Although I'm sure there are some who also want to ban the word idiot.
  
  Wasn't there someone on lemmy that loves to explain this one? Something like idiot, removed, stupid, and moron corresponding to approximate mental 'ages' that were used in the early 1900s?
  
  There are a ton of people who think idiot is ableist yeah.
  I mean I respect the dedication but my line is drawn before I get that far. And if me not thinking the same as them is a line for them, so be it.

Policing the hell out of language, while well intentioned, creates a backlash effect that I think actually hurts us more these days. Look at how they originally attacked "political correctness" in the 90s - because we were trying to code some improvements into language. Now people openly laugh at us for not having a solution to homelessness besides renaming them "unhoused."
Be far easier to just let the R word become the word it has become, which doesn't describe mental illness or disability anymore, much like "idiot" and "moron" and "imbecile" were once used as medical terms, and now they have none of that meaning.
- Languages evolve. It's a very common thing for descriptors of negative things to become slang for insults. Not to say we should be encouraging this behavior, but rather that policing it is ineffective at best.
  Effective solutions address the underlying issues
  (Destigmatization of ailments is a good thing, but doing so by stigmatizing the words themselves often has a Streisand effect)
- No dude, the PC mob in the 90s were pricks trying to police language. The result came in the 2010s when the UK enacted Section 5 of public order act. Which say a kid arrested and actually in fucking court for calling a horse "gay". And other for saying "woof" to a fucking dog!
  The problem is that all those people who wanted that shit, were just thin skinned little removed. And now that virtue signalling is all the rage, everything is offensive now. "Sticks and stones and may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.". Yet here we are, and everyone is clutching their pearls over anything that will get them a worthless up arrow.
  Part of free speech is about being allowed to offend people. You are totally free to criticise the person, and whatever he or she might be saying and who they are saying it too. But the fundamental right to offend is something that should be protected by all of us. Or one day, you might just find yourself in trouble with the law, because someone claims to be offended at using the word "fascist" because what you called fascist, didnt rise to horrors of history attributed to that.
  And now we have the online safety act in the UK, which is spreading to other countries where you have to show ID to use social media among other things, when it was only ever supposed to be used for porn sites.
  But dont take my word for it. Mr Bean said it much better than I ever could:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU
- I get what you are saying but if idiotic and imbecile are still available as insults and are further from medical definition than removed then why not just use them instead? The point being is that removed still has the bite of comparing the person to the mentally disabled and the others don’t.
  
  Wouldn't it be nice if all pejorative terms of mental incapacity went the way of idiot & imbecile? Why shelter derogatory words[^shelter] from ameliorating?
  When a term begins as pejorative and eventually is adopted in a non-pejorative sense, this is called melioration or amelioration. One example is the shift in meaning of the word nice from meaning a person was foolish to meaning that a person is pleasant.
  [^shelter]: perpetuating stigmatization
- Now people openly laugh at us for not having a solution to homelessness besides renaming them "unhoused."
  As long as one ignores all the solutions that capitalists dont like, sure. We also cant figure out why people starve while we're at it.
  
  If you’re serious about helping the homeless, don’t spent scant attention antagonizing potential supporters over vocabulary.
- You're comparing apples to oranges. Attempting to change "homeless" to "un-housed" is different from just not using a slur — you're assuming that non-derogatory terms don't exist for neurodiverse people; there are no "improvements" to be made, just exercising some discretion. You shouldn't be using slurs just because it'll turn acceptable soon or because everyone else is using it; if there are people that feel hurt by it and have a history of being marginalized by such usage, you don't have the right to use it; that is if you are a morally sound person that doesn't care about BS buzzwords like "political correctness".
  
  you don't have the right to use it
  So you are about language policing.
  Go pound sand.
- You aren’t being “policed.” The point is the problem is the dehumanization of people with intellectual delays, who are a group currently being target by the fascist government of the US, and probably other fascist governments at the moment. Disability rights are fucking invisible, and language like that goes with that problem.
  It’s not about being “offended,” it’s pointing out that words mean things. Some people are hurt by your language. Why isn’t that enough to consider what you are saying and why.
  
  they mean things to you.
  they don't mean those same things to other people.
  just like if I say the word sabaka, it doesn't mean anything to you, but since i speak russian, it has meaning to be.
  you find the word removed upsetting. Cool. I don't. I find the word heteronormativity upsetting, also emotional intelligence. maybe you don't.
- Ah yes, let all those white kids say "the rapper word" (as it was known in my time), slavery is over, segregation is over, those who still discriminate are just jerks, and being black is a nice filter to know who your real friends are. /s

What’s the next euphemism we should switch to?
For a while there in the 90’s, “differently abled” looked like it was next on the treadmill.
Words for stupid or crazy are always going to be used as insults.
- My nieces introduced me to "short bus" as an insult instead of removed.
  
  Short bus has been a thing for a long while.
  
  Err, that's no better, it's possible worse ..
  
  "I'm not using the word that means the bad thing, I'm just saying you ride the same thing as them" 🙄
- 'trumped' works for me
- The fact that it's still currently used as a euphemism for people with actual conditions like down syndrome is precisely why it's problematic to use it as an insult. Previous words used in decades past are only insults now and no longer used as a euphemism for the condition.
- The r slur is intentionally cruel in a way that stupid can't match, since stupid is more generic and versatile.
  Maybe the r slur doesn't need a replacement, we can just hold ourselves to a higher standard, and drag things without comparing them to someone with a disability.
  
  The "r" word used to be the correct medical term used to avoid words like stupid and idiot that were considered cruel slurs, now the "r" is considered a slur, and the cycle goes on and on.

I find it difficult to imagine a future in which humans aren't making fun of impaired cognition.
I think the context is what's most important, if anyone actually directs such language (be it removed, idiot, etc) towards people with genuine mental impairment, that constitutes a slur. But the word 'removed' literally means 'slow', and is still regularly used (including by myself) in scientific and technical contexts (compared to racist or homophobic slurs, which are only ever really used in a 'slur' kind of way).
I wouldn't really have a problem with calling people 'slow' in jest, and I don't think many would. Imo if not 'removed', it'll be something else with the same meaning.
- Also commonly used in timing of internal combustion engines
  
  Literally nobody is saying it can't be used in that context.
- That doesn't really work as an argument when slow is also used as a euphemism for people with mental disabilities. Saying "it literally means slow, I'm calling them slow" just makes it sound like you're still being ableist. I don't believe calling someone slow as an insult is ableist, I'm only saying that the train of thought feels goofy. Like, "oh? You weren't trying to use the slur usage of the word and were using the technical usage? The technical usage that means slow? Another word people use as an insult and a euphemism for the exact same kinds of people and scenarios as the other one?"

There’s no reason to use the word “r-tarded” to describe someone.
Seeing how upset it makes some people it's very clear that it makes an excellent insult.
- No you can't insult removed republicans, you can only listen to their insults!
- A lot of slurs make people upset.
  If you have to resort to slurs to insult people it just shows a lack of imagination.
  
  The point of insults is to be insulting, not being imaginative.

In my language removed is used in several contexts and it means delayed - and although a non-native speaker, I thought the same rule would apply to English.
- lol that censorship, pathetic.
- It does mean delayed. In car engines the spark is advanced or removed.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_timing
- I certainly support not using it as describing a person as “delayed,” but there are non-offensive uses such as vehicle ignition timing can be advanced or rétarded. (Accent used here only to bypass the filter)
- Alright I'll finally ask: In my Lemmy app ("Boost for Lemmy" on Android) your post's first sentence shows "In my language removed is used". I'm assuming the word you originally typed has been censored, but I'm not sure if this is a Lemmy thing, a lemmy.ml thing, or some app setting I missed.
  Can others view the uncensored version of your post? Because then it's probably something to do with the app I'm using.
  Been bugging me for months.
  
  It’s because .ML is removed.
  
  https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/1464
  Instances can choose words to go into a slur filter. They get auto removed. If it's your home instance doing it then every instance will see the removed version.
  
  It's probably a lemmy.world censorship - I'm also from .ml but I don't think it can control what we can read on other instances, and this post is on .world.
- Wrong r word but I see what you mean

Ironically, the term "mental removedation" was introduced by medical and educational professionals as a less derogatory and more objective replacement for older, highly stigmatizing terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile, which themselves were previous medical classifications.
- I think about this a lot. I feel like it essentially means the middle school bullies of today drive the slurs of tomorrow.
  
  I think we should go back to learning the old adage "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me"

removed isn't a slur.
N*****, Wet****, K*ke, G**k are slurs.

"Demons" is a derogatory term. You should use "Mortally Challenged"
Doom Eternal
- As a legal representative of an online platform and social media website 9GAG.com, I ask you to put this post down as it unmistakingly violates our intelectual property, there: our brand of humor. Failure to so would be followed with a formal DMCA request to your fediverse provider, and then court. I reached out to you in hopes it won't get to that.
  Sincerely, David Altkey
  
  Please forward your complaint to Bethesda Software
  https://youtu.be/MmF23Eri9Ss?t=13

When you stop being offended by letters on a page and direct that hate towards the individuals that use the word as a slur or out of context on purpose, you'll be a lot happier.
- I'm not offended by "removed" because of its shape, I'm offended by it because it takes me back to when Meathead John crushed my throat in the playground calling me it until I would ask him to beat up the boy i liked instead.
  Words represent, communicate and are something. Humans have for the entirety of their use of language, understood that the signifier and the signified are interchangeable.
  
  I'm very sorry for your experience, but without knowing you and your history, I can't possibly know all of that. So I'm left with two choices - sharply limit my vocabulary in the hopes of avoiding making some random person feel bad; or acknowledge that each adult is best qualified to carry and deal with their own traumas.
  
  sucks for you.
  my dad used to beat me and call be f-word all the time. but i 100% don't see any issue with other people using it.
  not everyone who experiences the same things as you comes to the same conclusions you do. post-structuralist theory isn't really so hot these days, but you seem to have referenced it as authoritative to your belief in controlling words.
- Do you also use the N word? Would you feel comfortable using that as an insult?
  
  The N word is based off negro which is just black. Calling someone black isn't an insult so the only connotation would be to be racist. removed is based on slow and I would want to call someone slow and imply what they're saying is moronic, so it literally fits perfectly. That said it's still used as a slur pretty often and it's purely a negative word so I still don't really use it.
  
  No, but then that word has very few uses beyond slurs. The word 'removed', however, has many uses in technical fields - for example in setting internal combustion engine timings, or throttle settings in aviation. As always, context matters.
- People aren't upset about the word. They're upset with the people using the word. Telling people to not use the word like that is how they're "directing that hate." People are already doing the thing you're saying they should do.

I’ve not heard anyone use that term in years. Well with the exception of one ignorant asshole
- Which brings up another abused word. Assholes are wonderfully exciting and mysterious.
  
  Along the same lines: removed
  removed are great! The world needs more of them! Why are we using that as an insult again?
  
  Hahaja

isn't it kind of divorced from the mentally ill at this point? it just means that someone is slow, which is exactly what removedation is.

That's a removed opinion.
Changing words doesn't change the emotions the person is feeling. They'll just find a new word to put those emotions into and the cycle starts again. It's the Euphemism Treadmill. You need to change people/society. Acting like removing a word solves the whole problem is well, removed.

removed is a word that is now used exclusively to talk about people who are not mentally ill acting like dumb fucking cunts. Like, its totally removed to see people getting upset at Trump being called a removed... If you hear the word, and you think about actual disabled people. Thats a you thing. Cos I promise you, no one else is.

No one is looking at this, and thinking that anyone else, but Trump, is a fucking removed.
- It's like that South Park episode with the bikers.
- Well, no, Trump was specifically mimicking a specific reporter with a congenital joint condition in that image. So I don't really get why you don't think that's Trump not being disparaging. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34930042
  
  I think you need to read what I wrote again, Chief. Cos I never made that claim.
- 77 million votes, and he's the removed?
  
  Yes, America has a removed problem. Theres at least 77 million of them...
  
  !selfawarewolves@lemmy.ml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*removed*_(pejorative)
For context, until the 1960s, the terms moron, idiot, cretin, and imbecile were all genuine, non-offensive terms used, including by psychiatrists, to refer to people with mental intellectual disabilities and low intelligence. These words were discontinued in that form when concerns arose that they had developed negative meanings, with "removed" and "removed" replacing them.[6][7] After that, the terms "handicapped" (United States) and "disabled" (United Kingdom) replaced "removed" and "removed". Disabled is now considered a more polite term than handicapped in the United States as well.
- And then in a decade or two people will have started to use the word disabled with a derogatory meaning and we can no longer use that word either.
  
  The same with "mentally challenged"
  
  It has already started. It will start immediately with whatever word they come up with to replace it. If someone is being particularly stupid, someone else will find the strongest word they can to insult them. This will never change.
  
  Already happening, and already being railed against. You can read a great many arguments from certain communities that decry anyone calling them disabled or handicapped.
  
  It’s already started with sped

I don't like the euphemism treadmill. Normalize all slurs. Get more creative with your language & learn how to reappropriate & reclaim.
The worst take I've seen on slurs is the online activism to make the noun female a slur. When I explain that their advocacy accepts a sexist premise that something is wrong with the name of an entire gender & thereby consents to the stigmatization of that gender, they erupt into an irrational rage.
- The reason people have a problem with the noun female isn't because "there's something wrong with the name of an entire gender" it's because it's extremely often used in such a way that people (typically men) will refer to men as men and refer to women as females. It's why you may see the phrase "men and females" thrown around as a response.
  (For the record, I think referring to women as well as men as females or males is pointlessly degrading. The noun version of those is acceptable for non-human animals, e.g. the males in a flock of birds.)
  
  people (typically men) will refer to men as men and refer to women as females
  Where
  
  it’s because it’s extremely often used in such a way that people (typically men) will refer to men as men and refer to women as females. It’s why you may see the phrase “men and females” thrown around as a response.
  Right, so the premise is there's something wrong with the word that names an entire gender. The campaign isn't "don't use 'men and females'", it's "don't use 'females'". They'll write about Ferengis whenever a suspected non-female uses female: they're not examining meanings & context to draw critical distinctions. 'Men and females' is merely a rationalization.
  The effect: female is a slur, yet male isn't, so female is stigmatized. That disparity raises the impression that femininity has such deficiencies even their name is a term of abuse unworthy of pride, and that females are too frail without society coming to defend them from the adversity of their name. In contrast, masculinity is sufficient for its name not to raise adversity, and even if it did, males have the fortitude for society not to come to their defense. That unequal treatment of words implicates females disfavorably thereby stigmatizing them.
  Think who that serves: is opposition to the noun “female” unwittingly subscribing to stigmatization & sexist thinking of those who’d welcome the stigmatization? The language police are playing themselves here.
  Treating the word female like male, however, wouldn't raise such questions & impressions, and it wouldn't ostensibly support a sexist premise and play into its consequences.

I don't particularly care one way or the other, but I know it really bothers some people, so I avoid using it. Best case scenario, I avoid making fun of a disability, worst case scenario, I had to go to all the trouble and effort of thinking of and using a synonym, such a terrible effort.

slurs are useful.
they are an escalation step that are words instead of physical violence.
making slurs illegals removes that step and leads the escalation straight to violence.
That is an unpopular opinion.
- At no point has the suggestion been that saying slurs should be illegal. It’s that if you say slurs, you are a shitty person.
  Also - this is probably the most sociopathic and scary take on this thread. People say slurs rather than do violence, so we shouldn’t be concerned with people saying slurs? My understanding is that slurs are more often then not preludes to violence.
  
  Not trying to be a troll. I just genuinely don't understand why sociopathic is acceptable as an adjective and removed is not. Can you explain the difference?
  
  Using terms like sociopath to describe someone is worse than a slur. It pseudo-intellectual cowardice to use that rather than saying that you think someone is crazy or more directly removed.
  I think that if you remove pathways that are non-violent, like name-calling, then that makes a more direct path to violence. And NAZIs have shown that violence is inevitable in history.
  And hate speech is a crime in many places.
- "Oh noo if I can't say slurs then I have to just attack the ni-"
  You gotta get past this phase bro
  
  And you gotta see the Black Mirror episode, "Arkangel", bro. Cause it's obvious you haven't.
- What the fuck kind of logic is this? We can't magically make insulting language go away. If someone wants to use a slur, they will. People also don't think "damn, if I didn't have a word to insult this person that was insulting enough I'd punch them!" If people want to be violent they're going to be violent.

It is so weird to me that this opinion is unpopular, but judging by some of the comments here, I see your point.

R-tard? Is that like something about Republicans?
- Don't be stupid, removed means to reduce the rate of flow
  
  I didn't realize the hyphen was meant for censorship instead of conjunction

context is important. when I call my friend steph a "stupid removed", we both know she's not "stupid" nor a "removed".
when I call a political leader removed, I mean it in a derogatory way. a slur. in all the negative meanings as possible.
when I call a neurotypical person removed, I mean it in the same way.
however, important context, it is never acceptable to use the word to describe someone who is intellectually challenged. it's not their fault, and they have zero control over their situation.
I think it's actually offensive to even compare intellectually challenged people to the word even.
I believe the word has purpose in the lexicon still, and that is describe the willfully ignorant in a visceral way that they are forced to take offense to it.
words can have more than one meaning. if it's not directed at you or used to discriminate against you, it should be perfectly acceptable to use words to describe.
this zero tolerance and censorship of words never ended well in history only because it's a constant battle of drawing lines in sand.
I know I'll probably get banned for this comment, but I still think I deserve to speak my opinion on this. you don't have to agree or disagree, I just want people to think for themselves and not fall into a dark pattern of censorship.
- it's an entirely reasonable take. but context is hard for people and they fail to understand that other people are not them, and get very angry with other people don't behave the way they think they should.
  
  And that's that person's problem.

I only use it to refer to myself.

Lol you fucking spastic - can't say that, its offensive
Are you removed - can't say that, its offensive
Damn bro, you mentally disabled?
This will continue onward, to think otherwise is removed.
- I never really understood the difference between insults and slurs. Somebody said that slurs target groups of people and imply that just being in the group is bad. That explanation works for ethnic/racial slurs or the ones regarding gender/sexualities.
  But to me "removed" is not specifically tied to a group. It's not mainly used for people who are disabled or neurodivergent for example. As far as I'm concerned it's the same as calling someone a moron or incredibly stupid.
  
  it's historical and cultural context.
  hence why words that were once common place, become seen as heinous.
  but it's not like words are the only thing for which this is true. just look at say, attitudes towards sex.
  and the moralists about sex/words will argue that everyone else should do/believe what they do, or they are bad people.
- Quite the imaginary slippery slope you made up there.
  
  Not slippery slope, euphemism treadmill

OP, I just gotta say, I really agree with you, and I find it really disgusting the amount of people in this thread trying to renormalize it or argue that it's not problematic. This thread has been one of, if not the, most frustrating threads here over the past two years. Like I'm genuinely feeling gaslit by some of these comments. Do people not remember the voice people would use? Do people not remember the motions people would do? Those weren't just a mild way to call someone stupid. It was always ableist and still is today. Maybe in five to ten years I'll feel differently, like language really has moved on, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening. It feels like people just being more comfortable being edgy.
- Do people not remember the voice people would use? Do people not remember the motions people would do?
  Is that the fault of the word or the person?
  
  The word choice is the fault of the person.
- I'm with you on that. A lot of times lemmy feels like 4chan for self-proclaimed leftists, like look at how popular problematic greentext screenshots are.
  But hey, at least this thread lets me know who I should avoid interacting with in the future
- Myself and many of my friends were called it a lot growing up, but we still said it to and about each other super often. Now I kinda think people should probably avoid it, but I don't think it's "disgusting" for people to think they can say it, it's very normalized and most people see it as a synonym for "you should know better than this" or "that is the dumbest thing ever." I've seen it used 500x more in those ways than actually against anyone (not saying it's rare people are called that, just extremely common to see it used not against anyone)
- other people don't agree with you.
  why do you find that so problematic? why do you feel your thoughts/feelings on this are superior such that other people should subordinate their beliefs and feelings to your own? is your moral authority over language use superior to other people's?

If you have an issue with a word then you should suggest an alternative.

Society likes to keep change managable, so it removed progress.

I agree with you. Like I told a family member who made all the same arguments the people in these comments are making: "I am not trying to tell you what you can and cannot say. I'm telling you that if I hear you use language like that, I will respect you less and I will talk to you less or not at all. " We don't talk much anymore, and thats fine.
- That’s really the main point. Getting around the “euphemism treadmill” and the idea of “policing speech” that have been the main points of most of the other comments - it’s not that I think it should be illegal to say it, but that I will think much less of you as a person. It takes so little effort to try to avoid words that people can be harmed by.
  I think it reflects the way that the marginalization of disabled people is invisible in even “leftist” spaces. The severely cognitively delayed are usually shafted off into a “self contained” room, and so it’s really easy to have a warped picture of what someone with intellectual difficulties is like. I did a little program in college where I spent a lot of time with an adult day respite center - something like a “day care” for non-independent adults who lived with family. There were definitely a lot of things alien to me about the way they lived their lives but they were all human. They had stuff they liked - and it wasn’t “kid stuff.” They could express what they thought about the food they were eating, what they wanted to do, idk, the point is that they had the same basic right to agency that we all do. And this is something that not even the most “leftist” politicians or thinkers engage with at all. Conservatives ofc, seem to think we should just kill them or let them die.

People who are literally removed are not the ones reading this post, or surfing the internet in general. People who are literally removed can't read.
"bUt Im NeurOdiVERgent!"
Shut the fuck up. We're not talking about you. Lemmy seems to think they're all special mental cases. No, everything I see on here about ADHD and autism is mostly normal human foibles. My daughter is both, a little strange to me, nothing crazy, I can still relate to most of her "issues". I understand she sees the world differently than me, I try to adjust for that.
Growing up and navigating the most complex society we've ever faced, and didn't evolve for, can be quite a challenge. Suck it up buttercup. Recognize your strengths, recognize your weaknesses, don't be hurt by fucking words. If being called names breaks your spine, well, you're not going to do well on this planet.
The whole thing is made up hate by people who had their feelings hurt being called removed in school. It's a 4th-grade insult that snowflakes have decided is now a "seriously harmful" term. I've been called the dreaded "F" word 1,000 times, so what? Didn't turn me gay or even hurt my fee fees.
In 5-years "stupid" will be outlawed. There will be a YouTube video of some teen crying their eyes out, relating how being called stupid ruined their whole life and now they have to kill themselves. "Idiot" will be banned by 2027. Any words that could possibly be understood as negative adjectives describing a human being will be verboten by 2030.
Bless your heart!
- The whole thing is made up hate by people who had their feelings hurt being called removed in school. It’s a 4th-grade insult that snowflakes have decided is now a “seriously harmful” term. I’ve been called the dreaded “F” word 1,000 times, so what? Didn’t turn me gay or even hurt my fee fees.
  I reveled in embracing the insults thrown at me & feeling empowered about growing the backbone not to care. It saddens me that newer generations don't learn sticks and stones is really that simple & get so worked up over words.
  They claim anyone is a Nazi for explaining to them offensive ideas aren't world ending & freedom of speech is worth protecting.
- I've been called the dreaded "F" word 1,000 times,
  Put your money where your mouth is and say it if your argument is that people shouldn't censor them, coward.
  
  Lol, thanks, made me chuckle

I thought it was widely accepted that you shouldn't use this word outside of, like, quoting old medical diagnosis from when the word was used in that context. It is not an okay insult.
Maybe I just hang out with nicer people.

You're right technically but things have regression so far back were at 2016 levels of slurs the nword is making a comeback. Until thats sorted you have zero chance getting people to care about removed.

No liberal person I know accepts this behavior. I think this post is yet another attack on liberals following the right's playbook.
- Unfortunately I hear it from liberals frequently. Not to be confused with leftists, who are mostly a little more aware.

+1
Maybe y'all haven’t experienced it as a slur. I grew up around jerks that did, and it leaves a nasty taste. I’ve caught myself using it, and felt awful afterwards.
- Meh, where I grew up everyone got called all sorts on names - it was the Playground Way.
  So yea, call me names, I really just don't care, and may even laugh when someone does it, because it takes me back to my childhood days, reminds me only children behave like that. Now I know who someone is, and how to manipulate them.
  
  I'm sorry but the nominations for the Edgy Comment Awards for 2025 have closed already.

I agree. Often there is a better insult to use against someone who is being idiotic that’s not also disparaging to an unrelated group.

Tbh "r-tarded" is much better anyway it's funny as hell

There is reason to use it. It fits me well sometimes.

Does that mean if I'm autistic I get an R- word pass?

My uncles were removed due to Rh incompatability before they understood about Rh Factor. They called themselves removed, our family called them that, it doesn't sound wrong or deragotory to me.

I don't think intellectually challenged individuals deserve cruelty, nor do I believe anyone does. However, this is the first argument that popped into my head, and I want to genuinely discuss this. Again, I do NOT agree that the intellectually challenged are deserving of discrimination. This is for the purpose of discussion.
If being intellectually challenged isn't worthy of discrimination, why feel insulted when called removed?
- Idk if someone was called that as essentially a slur many times growing up, it's not like they choose to feel bad when someone says it. It's also used as a replacement for "bad/unpleasant" so it's kinda hard to reclaim.
- The situation you're describing is a catch 22. Either people view it as ableist and it's angering (though not necessarily insulting) that someone is using a slur, or people view it as a general purpose insult for stupid and it's insulting. Plus, if someone uses a hateful tone and calls me something nice, it can still be hurtful, sarcasm exists, so even if people believe the word shouldn't be used as an insult it's not like that magically means it's now a nice thing to do.
  If someone thinks being overweight is t something to feel shameful about and is proud of their body while being overweight, it's not like someone using fat as an insult magically no longer hurts or isn't rude.

Not at all
My brother has a mental disability. Not his fault, doctors fucked up ab operation when he was a baby and he came out severely damaged. He has the intellectual level do about a 13 year old, but he mostly lives independently, he got his drivers license in a country where many people with full brain capacities cannot. Doctors told my mom after the operation to just dump him in some institution, because he'd never even talk. She told them to go fuck themselves.
I'm fucking proud of him (and my mom), because with severe limitations he really got himself ahead. I see him as a fucking genius.
Then there are removed like Elon musk who do have a full brain with full abilities but somehow fail to even surpass what my brother wasn't supposed to be able to do, yet by brother does it, these people do
I call people removed when they are supposed to be better but just chose to be lazy or not caring or just behave removed.
Is an insult against people who are supposed to be smart but behave like they have a mental disability, and I stand by that.
If you feel offended, the that is on you.
- I call people removed
  Is lemmy.ca doing the same censorship billshit as .ml? SMH ...
  
  Apparently it does now. Yay? Great point to make about completely missing the point, Lemmy...
- This is my stance on the word.
  We use it regularly in engineering for this exact definition. Mentally disabled people typically operate in the best version of themselves nearly all the time (minus bad days, we all have em)
  But people who have the potential to operate at their full capacity but choose not to are the very definition of the word.
  I will definitely think it while standing in line behind someone for 15 minutes at a coffee shop who don't decide to even look at the menu until the cashier gets to them.
  But I still don't say it, as intention and perception are competely unrelated.
  I'd also add "you dumb fucker" hits about the same, without the fallout of "the R word"
  I guess that's the part about people and taboo words I don't understand. A little fun flex in vocabulary can transmit the same sentiment without impacting others.
  Tactical strike, not full fallout.
  
  In IRL public I rarely use any strong language against anyone. On the internet and in private with people that know me, I tend to talk like a sailor, not apologizing for that.
  In public, I know everyone has their story, everyone has their reason for making dumb mistakes, and oh man, have I made a few. I've acted removed on occasion too, not proud of that
  Having said that, I really think people overreact with the word. I wish they would react like that when something actually bad happens, but usually then you hear crickets

I’ve been called that all my life. I hate it. No one should be made to feel like they’re inferior.
- what if they are objectively inferior though? should we lie to them?

Not sure what the word (R)etard has to do with people with mental challenges. I've always known it to be a reference to Republicans, hence the little (R) next to their name.

I told someone I was autistic and they called me removed. So I say it now as sort of a reclaiming act 🤷‍♀️
- I have an autistic friend with the same opinion and I told him he was retar-wait...

OP, fuck these people.
Anyone who thinks that words mean nothing and that historical context is irrelevant are probably people who have never been on the receiving end of these words being used to dehumanize them.
And all of you people, would you also use:
n igger
f aggot
sand n igger
ching chong
Or did any of those make you feel wrong? Maybe you don't actually think that slurs should be used but instead don't realize the impact of r etard as opposed to whatever made you uncomfortable in that list.
- they made me laugh
  you forgot the ding dong at the end of ching chong, btw.

Did we get less fascist than the 90s when people were using the word freely? What do we do with the words "moronic", "idiotic", "stupid", "imbecilic", etc?

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