Feature parity or get out
Feature parity or get out
Comments
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x11 when you try to use 2 monitors that don't have the exact same atomic composition:
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I think it took me 2 years to get six monitors on two GPUs working consistently under X11. Yes, I'm that fucking stubborn.
Wayland worked right from the start.
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I lol'ed
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It's fucking weird people have such strong opinions about issues like X11 and systemd. They're meant to be working in the background away from the user, and that's exactly how I treat them. Actually systemd still provides some functions a user might have to interact with manually, for X11 I'm just baffled.
When I take an uber, I don't care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission.
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I used to use some features that only worked on x11. Slowly I found alternatives or workarounds on wayland. So I understand the sentiment. Imagine you book an uber but it's electric so they say you can't book a ride that's too long
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I love your metaphor because it is exactly the kind of pedantry that is usually at play with X11 vs Wayland.
"I can't take an electric uber because it has an effective range less than 400 miles!"
Who the fuck takes a uber to a destination over 4 hours away?
A normal person rents a car, takes a bus, catches a train or buys a plane ticket. Ain't no one faring a uber for a long trip to another city. But that's exactly the kind of complaints from people obsessively clinging to X11. They have a hyper specific use case or workflow that almost no one else uses.
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Gnome forced me onto Wayland a few weeks ago and I've been dealing with issues ever since. Some issues even affecting the most basic level tasks like typing text, imagine dealing with that in 2025. Following your analogy, if the Uber with the fancy new transmission came to a halt every kilometre, you'd care too.
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Same here. All amd. 13 year old cpu. Wayland has a ton of issues and 0 noticeable improvements for me.
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Nvidia?
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I was an early adopter years back, so I reported bugs while I could still switch back when I needed to (which ended up being once to screen share with Zoom)
If you had done this, you wouldn't be forced into a buggy environment now.
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I think the average user wouldn't care, Linux just attracts nerds. And I think it's totally fine and even good that people care how their computer works—it shows that users care about their software working for them, rather than just wanting to go along with whatever is given to them. I think a lot of the positions people take about these things are very silly, but I'd still prefer someone to have a silly opinion about X11/Wayland or pid 1 than to not have an opinion at all. It's nice that users are being actively involved in deciding what they want their system to be; it's a nice change from the average user who's like "well microsoft is screenshotting my screen every 5 seconds and feeding it into copilot now, guess I'm going along with that".
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In my eyes, it's the same deal as conservatives coping with the changing world. There is a version where they just shut up and let the rest of the tech landscape improve while they happily stick to the X they know (X.org or even XLibre).
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When I take an uber, I don’t care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission. But I care what MY CAR has! Especially since there isn't a shop for my car and I have to do all my own maintenance. Like, init/systemd is a huge architectural change, it's weird to you that people who depend on their computer to perform whatever function gives their life meaning and viability want to have a functional grasp of their system? That's a big change to absorb for essentially no practical benefit to the problem domain.
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If you only live in the GUI layer, you aren't the driver. The implementation details are abstracted away from you. Your software are the real uber drivers, you're just being driven around.
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I found that systemd actually simplified all the things I was doing on sysvinit. BUT, I did hold out until Debian testing stopped supporting sysvinit, and I think waiting gave me a better experience.
With X11 -> Wayland, the main thing holding me back finding a tiling compositor that will work under Plasma and is packaged for Debian and the learning at least the basics. My XMonad configuration isn't that special, but I'm really quite used to not having to re-arrange my own windows, and being able to move/resize/refocus all with the home row and modifier keys. So, I'm probably going to wait until Debian testing ships a Plasma that doesn't support X11, and have to do some learning then.
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I'd have to change desktop environments, because my current one only has "experimental" support in the latest version, and my distro is years behind, anyway. Your choices are pretty much KDE, Gnome or building your own desktop with a standalone window manager, and I don't like any of those options.
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There are still existing issues with wayland that do not exist on X11. I'm talking, using last-gen consumer grade hardware that will break basic applications like, who knows, a web browser. Meanwhile the "upside" are extremely marginal to a lot of people. Different screen scaling isn't implemented using proper DPI on most implementations, variable refresh rate is not something most people care about (I sure don't care that my second monitor is capped at 120Hz instead of 144Hz because of my first monitor), etc.
So, yeah, for some people, it's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of having a stable, working system vs. a broken system where basic features are not a given.
If you took an uber and the car was a horse-driven carriage and your seat was a hole in a rotted plank, you'd complain.
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IMO Wayland surpassed X11 a long time ago... As it doesn't shit in the pants with tearing on video play or touchscreens with multi-screen.
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Man, I always read people removed about screen tearing, but I haven't seen it since, like, 2008. I'm starting to believe I have tremendous luck.
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Woah, I had to do that weird textfile trick on every single computer I installed for all my family members for years until the first Debian KDE with Wayland session (was it 12?)
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Meanwhile I'm here on Wayland because it does things that x11 doesn't.
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Like wreck the playability of your games? ;)
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If by "WRECK" you mean "improve" yes.
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You must use a different Wayland than I do.
I play competitive multiplayer games with VRR on a 4k240 monitor in a tiling wm with direct scanout. Color management support (HDR, 10bit, anything beyond 8bit sRGB) is also coming along.
I've never had a better working setup than this. Everything on X was painful. Even just getting vsync to work properly used to be tricky in some cases.
I agree that wayland does miss features compared to X but a lot of them are conscious design decisions and don't affect me personally. For example running graphical applications remotely through e.g. SSH or the complete lack of security allowing any application to easily read my keyboard input.
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Xorg never worked quite right for me with multiple displays of different resolutions, orientations and refresh rates. Even after extensive setup, I would get screen tearing effects all the time. In wayland, everything just works OOTB for me.
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if variable high refresh rate on my game monitor while discord and YouTube run at 60hz on the other wrecks playability, then definitely
I'm not one of those people who loves tearing though, so its good enough for me
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It actually does wreck the playability of games for me by disabling the ctrl and shift key. A known issue no one has bothered to look into. I cant complain tho, theyre working their butts off for free
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I kinda like being able to watch a video on one screen and not having to make sure that there are no animations going on anywhere else or the video framerate drops like it's 1996.
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Weirdly this happens on my work laptop (x11) but not any other Linux machine I've used including all the Wayland ones. I assume it's due to video drivers.
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Might be worth looking into and reporting as a bug. I use wayland and very commonly watch a high quality video on one monitor and whole games on my other just fine.
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Wayland is the one thing that fixed a whole shit-ton of my problems overnight and now I find out nobody wants to use it under any circumstances.
¯(ツ)/¯ Alrighty then-
Plenty use it without knowing as it is what the Steam Deck uses in gaming mode.
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Almost everyone uses it. We just never make posts about “our configuration works effortlessly, give us attention”
Only people with a bone to chew and shit to stir feel the need to post such things. Back in the day it was people who felt superior for debugging their steaming pile of init shell spaghetti, now it's people who just can't live without diving into X11 configuration files.
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The people who use it happily don't make memes about it. I do have some weird errors every now and then, it's definitely not as stable for me as X11. However X11 wasn't very smooth with my multi monitor setup, and Wayland improved the smoothness of my PC enormously, so the random issues every now and then are worth it
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I'm fine with X. Which problems did you have?
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It's been some time, but the biggest pain point for me on X11 was 4k@144hz. Short of some xrandr tweaks I couldn't manage to set, Wayland immediately worked perfectly.
I suspect I ran in to x11's limit in that case.
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When I updated KDE and found that I had lost the cube desktop switcher effect I was fairly put off on Wayland and made a lot of effort to get the cube back in various ways which did not go well. Now that it's on Wayland, albeit slightly different, I am content with staying on Wayland. I can't thank the people who ported it enough. It may seem like a trivial graphic effect to some but that fraction of a second that it uses when switching desktops is something that helps my ADHD tremendously. If I'm getting frustrated with a project I can switch to something else and something about that visualization helps me keep everything organized mentally. I use 4 virtual desktops, each with it's own project subject matter, one for each side of the cube, excluding the top and bottom.
This meme imagary is from the movie Seven Psychopaths. It's a very good movie.
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Do the other effects for switching desktops, like the default slide, not accomplish the same thing? I also find that having no animation makes it harder to keep track of where things are, but just have the sliding one
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I still have the slide as default and use it a lot. I have it set to slide when I mousewheel on the desktop and keep my taskbar shorter so there's always some desktop showing in the corners. When I get frustrated with something though, I hit my key to activate the cube and the animation of it pulling away from the normal view works as like a disconnect from whatever I'm doing. Virtually stepping back basically.
Without the cube, I found I would get frustrated and instead of working on something else I would keep going and ultimately make mistakes and end up more frustrated. If I tried switching with the slide or fade to another project, the irritation stayed with me and I'd mess those other projects up too. The cube, for me, just worked.
I did have some success using the overview, however it was a lot more overwhelming with the way it shows everything, while the cube limits it to what's on each cube face, without showing minimized windows at all.
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I'm pretty sure you can get that effect in the desktop effects menu in kde settings
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Yes now you can. But not initially. The old cube effect was removed and later re-implement
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Look, I primarily use e-waste for my computing. I'll use whatever display server I want. You'll pull X11 out of my cold, dead hands.
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Same!
I have an ancient laptop from 2013, it needs ancient nvidia 600 series driver version 470 someshit. Wayland doesn't support old stuff, and nuaveu drivers can't compete, creating random distorted image on fullscreen or crashing non stop.
And on my PC I have to use VMware for work, Wayland doesn't work well with fullscreen VMs, the keystroke capture thingamajig fucks shit off bad.
X11 works just fine in both my use cases.
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Likewise for Rustdesk clients and hotkeys.
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The only thing keeping me off of Wayland is the fact that OBS window capture forces me to manually reselect every window every time.
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Weird, it doesn’t make me do that, I have it installed with the flatpak.
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Same. Might be an issue with the legacy install method, the Flatpak OBS works like a charm.
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for me its the god awful graphics when i go onto it. like everything seems blurry or streaky.
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My blocker is the Window Shade button on Plasma.
It worked fine in Wayland under Plasma 5, but somewhere early in the 6 transition support was removed.
For anyone not aware it minimizes the window to its own titlebar. I find it faster and more intuitive than minimizing to a dock, and it's easier to keep track of things when you can actually read the whole titlebar.
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oh you’re right, it’s gone now. i didn’t even notice
tbh i only remember it working for non-Plasma apps, weirdly enough. stuff like Dolphin or Konsole wouldn’t work with it, but non-Plasma apps (that got decorated with the Plasma titlebar) would support it. maybe that’s why they removed it?
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Yeah that was the case right before it got removed, but in P5 and for the first couple point releases of P6 KDE apps were working with it
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Scroll-wheel rolls up windows for me on XFCE (labwc). I can understand it that might not be what you're looking for, though.
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Correcto X11 just works for me, never had any issues, there is literally zero benefit for me swapping over.
Every time I am booted into a Wayland session, something doesn't feel, look or work right which causes me pain and suffering through my OCD which i don't have.
I'm planning on trying hyprland soon though because it can look very pretty so if I swap over to that then yes I'll be a wayland pleb, but in that case there's a real reason to me swapping.. not just for zero benefit.
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I like XFCE because is simple and my PC is a toaster with an NVIDIA card so..whenever I have XFCE on Wayland I'll switch to it.
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A lot of their components are actually already Wayland capable :). But if you want the exact same experience you should probably wait.
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I've tried a few distros recently (Bazzite, Nobara, Debian...), all with Plasma+Wayland, and none of them work with my Wacom Intuos. Nobara with Gnome works fine (that's what I'm using in the meantime), albeit with a limited feature set: can't remap tablet area, can't use or remap the tablet buttons.
So, I've narrowed it down to something inbetween Plasma and Wayland. That's all I know for nowI use the tablet as a pointing device -using a mouse hurts my wrist after roughly 20mn (old injury). So it really is an accessibility issue...
I have said this a few times before, apologies, but I'm hammering it because it's not notorious enough.
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libinput is a major component in that area. you should ask around here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput also have a look at the existing open/closed issues
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Thanks ! Wacom support just replied to me with a link to their linux packages repo, I have some reading ahead of me
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Input devices (including tablets) is one of the 3 current overarching Goals of the KDE project, so now might be a good time to get involved with testing.
https://community.kde.org/Goals/Input
https://kde.org/goals/ -
I would post about it on the Fedora forums with details about what doesn't work and details about your injury. (If you are willing)
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Yes, I might do that, thanks for the advice.
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But I think that is wayland too, so I don't think that's the reason
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I miss screensavers :(
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Me too... :((
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One of the things that keeps me on x11 is xscreensaver. I disable the desktop environments blanking and install xscreensaver each time I load a system for myself.
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I’ve gotta be honest, the desktop environment situation on Linux does not impress me.
I’m on Cosmic which is decent, but there are all sorts of silly oversights in KDE and gnome, and windows have weird mixes of styles and toolbar display modes.
Is great that Linux is modular, but seriously gtk vs QT vs whatever else needs a heavy duty cleanup.
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I agree, however Windows and macOS are even worse IMO. Everything is just totally inconsistent (Windows) and the window management features are very barebones (both). Using either one feels like going back 10 years or more.
The CSD trend might have some upsides but i find it mainly just makes apps ugly and any added functionality is almost always redundant.
Kvantum really helps make Plasma more consistent, not sure if there is a similar addon for GNOME
Edited for clarity
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Apps should only use cad if they are really using the space like browsers with their tab bar. That gnome forces every app to provide them is really stupid.
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Gotta love that thing on Windows when you mouse up to hard top right and click to close the window. In some situations it'll focus and close a random window behind the one you're wanting to kill.
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Up to macOS 26 (the latest OS with Liquid Glass) consistency was great. You’d have to go back to the PowerPC era or X11 integration to find issues. Now I have windows with different toolbar button sizes and corner radii and it’s stupid as hell.
I agree on window management tools, but I used third party ones on Mac for a decade and they worked okay. Obviously not as good as i3 type ones.
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macOS are even worse in this regard IMO. Everything is just totally inconsistent
Why do you mention macOS if you haven't used it?
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Give me server-side decorations, or give me death!
(won't add the whole of GTK as a dependency, so that my input handling can be handed over to whatever is GTK doing.)
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My child will never see more than 8-bit color
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I'm sorry to hear about your child's condition. Hope they can find a cure for it soon, wish you all the best.
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My kid (13) surprised me the other day and said he wanted to try Linux. He has seen me forever using it and got scared about W10 getting hacked or something so thought of trying it out.
I handed over to him my Fedora 43 (KDE plasma) install USB drive and once installed the problems began.
The monitor couldn't be set to native resolution, and Steam didn't want to run. Turns out that there is no wayland compatibility with the Radeon Polaris RX480. What a bummer, that card is perfectly fine for what he does on his PC.
We tried with the cinnamon version and that is working fine. He even has roblox running.
Tl;Dr: Wayland isn't compatible with older hardware that most casual windows users are mostly going to be using.
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If he wants to try plasma just install the x11 version on fedora:
sudo dnf install plasma-workspace-x11
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Yup. Its not the default anymore (and for good reason), but it is still supported for now. This is a pretty straightforward solution to the problem.
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I've considered switching several times in the past, but each time there was something I needed that was not supported (e.g. - this issue with Zoom screen sharing)
In the last of these times I found no such dealbreaker, but I did want to try a dualboot setup - or dual-login, actually, because I should be able to switch at the greeter - first, to make sure I'm not breaking anything I need for work. This required switching from LightDM to a display manager that supports both X11 and Wayland. I don't remeber which one I've chosen, but I do remember having hard time installing it (I think I couldn't get it to launch i3 for whatever reason)
I've just checked and is seems LightDM supports Wayland now, so maybe it's time to try the switch again. Being able to use my current DM means I'm not going to risk breaking anything. Probably.
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I still use X11 & will continue to do so for as long as possible. Wayland's not bad, X11 just seems to works better....
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It really just boils down to what you're trying to do. Which is why choice is good, as always
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Both are really good but it depends on your hardware setup and your goals.
Do you have multiple monitors of different resolution and DPI mixes with a primary monitor thats 1440p or 4k at 90 to 144hz and/or variable refresh rate and older/cheaper side monitors that are 1080p 60hz? Wayland is going to be your best friend.
Do you have a single monitor setup (or identical monitors) that you primarily program on or do system admin work that you need remote desktop from? X11 is gonna be your go-to (for the foreseeable future).
Do you want to try exotic window managers like a sliding window manager? Wayland is the way to go.
Wacom tablet? Wayland is working on it but its not quite there yet so X11 for you artists. This also lets you keep using color profiles until Wayland gets that implemented too (my bets are on Plasma getting it first).
And so on.
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I will happily switch over once libinput isn't absolute ass with my touchpad! Or if I could adjust its settings in any meaningful way!! Or if you could let me use my old touchpad driver!!!
Until then you can attempt to pry x11 from my cold undead still-animated hands
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Plasma devs are currently focusing on input devices. Ideal time to offer them to help test your device and get amazing support out of it.
Or you could sit on your ass and do nothing, which is essentially gambling that they'll happen to support it (or your next device) when you're forced to switch at some point in the future.
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I'll switch when it fucking saves session data. It's still not ready for mainstream.
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It does have session restore (after crash)
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Idk, especially when using the most recent version of Wayland compositors, it's been great. Solved my display and touchpad issues.
I did have some Nvidia issues but that shouldn't be surprising regardless of display protocol.
But like... use whatever software you want. Worst case you can always just nest a minimal Wayland compositor like cage or gamescope in your X session.
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I just need xdotool. ydotool is missing almost everything. I don't need programs sandboxed from each other. I don't need that multi-DPI stuff (200% scaling works fine in X). Wayland doesn't provide any features I'm missing.
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If you're on KDE there is kdotool , kdotool - a xdotool clone for KDE Wayland that works in conjunction with ydotool
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Thanks, that looks a little better, but still missing things like sending keystrokes to non-active windows. (Also, I'm on Mate desktop on most my computers.)
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I just don't want to switch out my window manager and all the helper programs that make it work as a full desktop. Currently I just use LXQt+i3wm, and LXQt will take quite a while until it's anywhere near feature parity with Wayland, and AFAIK i3wm doesn't even have plans for a Wayland port (though I know that there's decently similar tiling WMs for Wayland). I don't think any of the oldschool low-resource-intensity desktop environments I'd consider using have a decently feature-complete Wayland port right now.
It's possible that it's not actually that much work to cobble together a new configuration with a Wayland-compatible tiling WM and a bunch of separate applications for screenshots, clipboard management etc., but I currently don't care to find out.
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Sway is build to he a drop in replacement for i3
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when endeavour switched over to wayland my session just completely stopped working. couldn't get past the login screen. had to reinstall xorg from tty. not touching that again until i get new hardware.
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idk about your DE, but on KDE and gnome you can have both and choose Wayland or x11 at the login screen.
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if both are installed, yes. endeavourOS removed Xorg when wayland was added.
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I prefer Wayland over X11, but Cinnamon doesn't support it yet as stable
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It's not a million miles away, but it's still got some problems. The 'extract archive' functionality seems to do it for me; think it must be wanting to pop up a (nested?) file chooser, but causes a session crash.
Cinnamon legacy for getting work done, and KDE wayland for playing games, for me. Nice to go 100% cinnamon though, for sure.
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Yeah I tried it for XFCE yesterday, noticed a few things I wanted weren't there (because XFWM isn't ported over) and promptly switched back. Didn't seem to me like it was more responsive or anything like that.
But I am still using a 1050Ti, so who knows. That also kind of kills my interest in the idea even if I didn't have fixed-if-you-use-this-specific-DE type issues. I also don't really like the idea of CSD.
after looking up that
labwcnot being installed was why the session wouldn't launch beforeentirely possible it is better in very specific scenarios, but the screen tearing that I see on X11 is diagonal (like the screen is 2 triangles, desynced) and honestly I don't even know the exact game to test (as I don't see tearing in videos or any other usage as far as I know)
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The older you get the more unnatural new tech feels
Wayland changes the core ideas behind the desktop
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Yeah, so, switching to wayland still break copy/paste from terminal apps, still requires me to disable all hardware acceleration lest firefox freeze and plasma's effects are visually broken, and it randomly swap my screen on each boot.
Meanwhile, no issue at all on X. I'll still wait a bit.
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Wait, is wayland the reason copy paste doesnt work and inserts weird character and brackets all the time?
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I think what you're having is when the 'pastee' application is expecting shift-ctrl-v but you've used ctrl-v or vice versa.
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That sounds more like escape sequence not being interpreted, but maybe? It's a mess.
Basically, in some implementations (it's true for at least KDE Plasma), the console app is never seen as "active" (the terminal emulator is), and as such can't access the clipboard, something like that. There's third party program you can use, and plugins for things like VIM, but when you get a step further with remote clipboard it's even worse. And even when solutions exists, there's weird caveat like "it will work all the time except if you've clicked somewhere in the past few seconds" or something.
I'm sure things will improve over time, but "we're not there yet".
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I get that on x11. Then I re paste and the wierd characters go away. Its odd
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I had the same thing. I think I solved it by installing xclip.
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Problem with Wayland, is the liability of being to not able the use of some software, and not being able to foresee it.
X11 is also working well, and a lot of the "issues" people have with it is more about hearsay than real issues.
This is the reason why we have distro diversity: we can choose ! And laugh at innocent memes either way we feel about it
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rstudio and octave is holding me back T_T
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they should just work under wayland without supporting it. what's the problem with them?
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ngl i only made this comment hoping someone would provide a solution lmao
majority of the features does work but when it comes to plotting in octave, nothing shows up. last time i checked it was something to do with qt(something).
for rstudio i dont remember what problems i had but booting into x11 solved these issues.
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Im on boring mint, and Wayland sucks on it. Literally disables my ctrl and shift keys, and volume keys, and backgrounds are only black. Unusable. And I have all amd, 13 year old cpu. Oh and it screws up video playback
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Mint is pretty late to the Wayland party with Cinnamon. It's probably one of the worst distros to try to use Wayland on.
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On Gnome with the dash to panel extension, arc menu (mint layout), desktop icons, and tray icons aka kstatus notifier icons is an incredibly compatible and in many cases better Cinnamon like experience and you have Wayland that works.
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This is what I am going to think about every time I am being stubborn and refusing to move until all my demands are met. "I shouldn't back down, I'm Christopher fuckin' Walken!"
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When Debian Trixie with GNOME started with Wayland by default, I switched too. It's not bad I guess.
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This is your freedom, enjoy it.
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You're absolutely free to maintain X11 when no one else does
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Zoom still doesn't work right on Wayland.
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Possibly, yet against their best efforts, their shit works better now, see the end of this comment. But first:
I've ranted about this before, but Zoom is bone-chillingly badly written software. It's also the only piece of software that I've never seen the code of, but will make comments about code quality and development practice with 100% certainty.
Zoom has broken for me in so many many completely insane and creative ways that the only explanation is that they have nobody keeping things in check and just an army of interns hacking away at things half-assedly until they “work”.
If there are 3 nice and standard ways to do things that can be easily googled, Zoom does a given thing in 2 more ass-backwards ways that make no sense and are fragile as fuck. E.g. they did screen sharing using GNOME's screenshot API, at a time when every tutorial told you to use the dedicated cross-DE screencast API. When called out, they switched to a different GNOME API.
I think at this point they finally fixed it by actually using the API people told them to use years earlier, but who knows what other inane mistakes are still there to prevent things from working.
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Hear hear. They can't keeo up though, with standards changing every 20 years or so....
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As someone who uses many of its features for job interviews on a Wayland machine, what doesn't work?
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For instance, screen sharing is broken on one of machines. It works once and then leaks the handle. Making it impossible to share again until rebooting.
It used to crash entirely when exiting sharing and their bugfix was to swallow the exception instead of a proper fix.
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I think in on Wayland now.
But honestly I don't know, I'm just doing updates as they come and it just works.
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Last time I tried Wayland (with Cinnamon), it didn't support any keyboard layouts other than American. That's a bit of a deal breaker if you're not American.
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Cinnamon doesn't support Wayland yet.
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That must've been like ten years ago then
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Not really. Linux mint/cinnamon is lacking behind on wayland support. Im still waiting for them to finish it but its going very very slowly.
With debian and ubuntu switching by default, i think linux mint will have to change gears quickly
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Wasn't there on cinnamon when I checked 5 days ago
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A few months ago.
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That's what happens when you use an experimental feature that is actively being developed and receiving improvements over time. Transitioning an X11 stack to Wayland is not as simple as flipping on a build flag.
Keyboard support has been implemented and will arrive in 22.3:
Wayland support
Under the hood, the Cinnamon keyboard handling relied on libgnomekbd and only worked in Xorg.
This meant that Cinnamon under Wayland could only be used with an English (US) layout.
This new support is fully compatible with Wayland for both traditional layouts and IBus input methods.
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Club is a war crime. I rest my case.
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I need some context for the picture?
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In the past this doesn't belong to me. I was okay with both. But I recently noticed that it is possible to connect a USB-OS to any system. The resolution is always correct. Thanks to wayland.
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I just can't give up dwm tbh. dwl is just a mess in terms of using it with a different keyboard layout (the keybinds that come by default work properly only on US keyboards) and needing to use fcitx (fcitx only worked on LibreWolf and nothing else, even after I tried using patches for this).
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Doesn't Wayland slow to a crawl under CPU load? I get mouse updates like once a second if I dare to make this mini PC play a video.
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No, it doesn't.
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Been there for a year plus. Catch up
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Are the Wayland devs going to rewrite my Awesome WM config and widgets to some equivalent window manager while preserving all the features I've implemented? If not why the fuck would I waste weeks of my time switching to a tool that does the exact same thing?
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Funny, this is basically the exact thing I said about switching from Windows to Linux at one point. Of course not about Wayland and window managers, but about the customization I did and the need to port it over.
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Those things couldn't be more different. Or did you spend lots of time to make your Linux environment work exactly like your Windows did?
I have my environment set up exactly the way I want. Moving to Wayland you mean replicating all the keyboard shortcuts, all the scripting and automated actions and re-implementing all the custom widgets. Because they work the way I want them to work. From what I've checked Wayland doesn't even have tools that can be extended as easily as my WM. I would have to use some less popular tools with little documentation or struggle writing things in C++. And if I did all this I would have a setup that works the exact same way but is on Wayland. What would I gain besides bragging rights?
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I wish awesome had a Wayland equivalent
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Lemmy: "Switch to Linux!"
Me, in IT for 3 decades: "Fuck is Wayland?"
Comments: Clusterfuck of conflicting opinions.
Seriously, y'all are not moving me to switch daily drivers here. I run nothing but headless Linux servers, but for a desktop? Let me start a fight: Which distro?
Last job was at a software dev. One soul of 130 worked with Linux as his daily driver. One. And y'all expect non-technical people to run Linux?!
Also, and this guarantees downvotes, I don't have the Windows issues you all tell me I have. Same install, years and years, multiple SSDs and PCs, no issues. I can hear you grinding your teeth, "NOAWW! You have problems! I INSIST your desktop fucks up all the time! I INSIST $MS crams unwanted updates up your ass!" Well, there is an update icon waiting on me. Not touching it ATM.
Only issue in recent memory is that it sometimes doesn't wake properly. About once every 2 weeks I have to hold the power button for a few seconds, let off, hit it again, acheive desktop.
Not trusting the gang who talked me into Firefox last year. What a fucking mess of a browser. Was on Edge last week, without realizing it, everything was smooth as glass. Firefox fucks up the most basic spellcheck. Really?! Still have to swap over to watch YouTube without ads, how's that for irony? Imagur is plain broken outside of Edge. I get weird graphic artifacts and issues on Firefox.
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Sir this is the nerd zone, and here you are complaining that there's nerds in the nerd zone talking about nerd things.
I convinced many of average Joes and Marys to switch without issue, never have I had to bother tell them what a wayland or X11 is, I just put Linux Mint on their laptops, give them a few practical tips (stuff like "use the app store instead of scouring websites for your software"), things just work and they happily go do whatever they do with their PC.
Which distro?
Whichever one you prefer.
I don't have the Windows issues you all tell me I have
Cool, /c/windows is over here you might probably enjoy it more than this place.
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You have the same energy against Firefox as Linux users have against Windows. Meanwhile Firefox runs great for me. Used it for years. Never had the issues you described (on windows and on Linux; I use both btw.)
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Me, in IT for 3 decades:
Well, there is an update icon waiting on me. Not touching it ATM.
Hum?
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what's broken on firefox?
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Spellcheck crosses out even basic English, has me questioning myself! I've probably added 2,000 words to the dictionary, no improvement.
Weird graphic artifacts, non-stop, it's blinking as I edit this post.
Sometimes the graphics go fuzzy and I have to reboot, not even restarting the video drivers works, no issue in Edge.
Imgur doesn't load. I use the Imagus extension in both browsers, flawless in Edge, spotty in Firefox. (Yes, that's on Imagus, probably not the browser.)
I can watch YouTube logged in on Edge with Ublock, no ads. Have to log out in Firefox. So if I see an interesting video here, I have to copy/paste to Edge.
Porn browsing? Straight to Edge. What six keys do I need to hit for private mode again? CTRL+SHIFT+N, as it ever was.
There's more, but those issues are top of mind.
I could probably figure out these issues, point being, non-technical users would run away. Kinda like how lemmy is utterly broken for me. My brain just shunts off the annoyances, but I can't expect anyone else to do so.
I can hardly sell Linux to Joe User, when not even technical people use it as a daily driver, was the point of my original comment.
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...Actually I largely agree, and I'm a CachyOS Linux acolyte.
I have my Windows partition stripped down to the bone. Not even Defender's active, but once it's like that it does just work for games, media and such. The partition is ancient.
...It would be hellishly inconvenient for dev stuff though. You are massively overselling Windows there.
Same with Firefox. I've had some weird issues with it on Linux and Windows, especially with hardware/graphics acceleration.
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Removed by Moderator — Modlog
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Bot Account
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1 hr old with that many similar sounding comments. It's definitely suspect
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Mr ChatGPT didn't even understand that the meme is agreeing with its anti-Wayland prompt lol.
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Screen capture works fine as long as the app uses XDG desktop portals (which it should)
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What's always funny to me when someome brings up missing features of Wayland is how, apparently, the missing features of X11 are getting pushed under the table or somehow also blamed on Wayland in some twisted way. Like, holy shit, compare the display settings of KDE on a modern display between Wayland and X11. My laptop didn't even show a third of all options anymore.
Sure, it will be nice once Wayland can do a few things (better), the current development push surely helps. But it's not like X11 can do everything either.
Yeah. "Feature parity or get out", like dude we're long past feature parity.
Wayland supports so much more stuff than X11 does, and what does X11 have that Wayland doesn't? X forwarding? Just use a modern remote desktop solution, all X forwarding was doing in "modern" times (read: the 21st century) was streaming pixels anyway, just less efficiently than modern remote desktop.
I still use X forwarding.
It works just fine using xWayland, and X forwarding has always been so janky there is no chance to notice any difference caused from using xWayland instead of native.
It will surely take many years and well established wayland native remote tunneling before anyone thinks of ditching xWayland.
Multi window apps are still broken, and the wayland protocol guys have been dragging it for more than two years
Ok, replace the xfce/KDE wm with something like i3 and then keybind all of the commands that aren't wm specific through a global hotkey daemon like sxhkd.
I switched to Wayland. I think I have almost everything working except keepassxc's global hotkey and autotype. Also certain apps like ardour, I have to manually break components off from the main window and move to different monitor to get the "multi monitor" functions going. This I know they have been trying for 2 years now, anyday now.
I can't copy/paste from a terminal program to a GUI program under wayland without jumping through hoops and configuring every individual program to use some variant of a DE-specific utility that bypass wayland's model to peek/poke into the clipboard.
That's not a minor feature to me. And in my (and probably some other people) case, trading basic copy/paste for not-yet-implemented differential DPI scaling does not sound too great.
Some people are adamant to not switch, but I swear some people are so adamant to force everyone else to switch without even considering that their use case might not match other people use case, it's infuriating. It's not like me staying on X will degrade everyone else's experience of the new shiniest thing.
Distribution moving to wayland might be good in the very long term, but for now, when you have a 3080Ti (a relatively recent card) and it breaks basic desktop composition when switching to wayland, telling people "just throw it out and buy another card instead of keeping your currently working system" is not going to help anyone.
What are you talking about? You can copy-paste from Terminal programs to GUI programs and vice-versa like everywhere else (with the terminal of course needing CTRL + SHIFT + C / V, which as we know is historical to Unix terminals). I'm doing that for years, so does my family. It works just fine.
And bringing up Nvidia now really is bending down backwards to paint Wayland as bad while it's painfully obvious it's the driver's fault. We all know the classic Nvidia driver sucks in more ways than one and loves to break, even Nvidia knows that and works on a replacement. That's not Wayland's fault.
Thats not entirely true.
wl-copyexists and I use it, but it's not fully there yet. Things like slackadays/clipboard are still fucking around with weird Wayland issues.I'd like better clipboard support, but
alias c=wl-copyis good enough most of the time for me. And it works in neovim as well.