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Betty can show up ‘on time’ and spend 40 min making coffee and shit talking with her neighbors, but I show up 10 min late and start working right away but I’m the bad employee somehow.
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Ive come to learn that employers are not paying you for your labor but for your time. They care more about your availability than how much you actually work. It is also why how hard you work never factors into how much you get paid.
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You never get a raise (above inflation) by doing your current work "better" or "harder". You get a raise by changing roles completely or adding on responsibilities that expressly is worth some extra pay. Or changing company.
But as an employee, I've come to realize that I don't value my pay as what I do, but how much time per day I dedicate towards my work. Time is all we have, really.
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Ive come to learn that employers are not paying you for your labor but for your time.
Commuting time should be salaried.
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Because depending on the company you're for a large part not paid for productivity but for presenteeism.
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I agree with you but unfortunately you have to work with people, and those people's ideas of you can make it harder or easier for you to actually do your work, or influence the stress you're exposed to, so it's in your own interest to put up a good façade, then if necessary fuck them in the ass... figuratively.
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Well if you are supposed to be at work at 7 then you should be at work at 7 tbh
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The underlying question is "why do you need to be at work a 7 in the first place". If Betty can chat with coworkers half an hour longer than the other person starts working, that half hour can't really be that critical. In that case, 7 is just an arbitrary number and the difference is that Betty starts work at 7:40 while the other commenter gets in trouble for starting at 7:10, which is just plain bullshit.
If I need to start working at 7 for some reason (shift work has been mentioned) and I start at 7:10, we can talk, but Betty's 7:40 ass better get four times the amount of shit.
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I can see it mattering if it's shift work and someone else has to stay late. If it's office work? Nah. Doesn't matter.
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Exactly. It also matters what type of shift work. If you’re late to a hospital nursing shift, that sucks because you can’t do the changeover stuff and they’ve been there 12 hours. Or if you’re the only one taking phone calls in the morning or something. In sane a world, there would be room for decent folks as well as folks who are always on time.
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If there is no buffer for shift changes, they're doing it wrong. Just in time is a bad model in general, but it's horrible mismanagement for scheduling shifts.
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Stay late 10 minutes: that's as good as leaving on time. I can't be expected to pay you more.
Arrive 10 minutes late: how could you? 10 minutes of my time is an eternity!
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Keep pretending to pay a fair wage and I'll pretend to give a shit about being on time.
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I don't think they'll be pretending to pay for long if you keep being late lol
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Yeah... better to get there on time and then slack off at work.
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You'd be super wrong there, at least in my case: I'm late all the time, not only do I still have my job, I get great reviews and token raises every time I'm up for review. If I left, they'd be in trouble, they definitely won't fire me. I don't bust my ass and they understand I won't be taking calls outside of designated hours, doing anything heroic, etc. but I am still very valuable to my employer.
I joked about having a job interview once during a meeting with leadership and it was one of the most awkward silences I'd ever heard until I told them I was just kidding: They thought I was serious and their terror was palpable. My manager once told me I'd have to commit multiple crimes to get fired when I made a joke about getting fired because there was an end of day meeting on a Friday.
I stay because it's a chill job and I like most of the people I work with even though the pay isn't amazing, but I could probably go somewhere else and make at least 30-50% more, though at the possible cost of more stress and less job security. My commute is pretty great too, 2 miles away and sometimes I even walk to work.
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Like most statements about work, it really depends on the job.
For shift work without overlapping shifts, being late keeps someone else on duty after their shift is up.
But if you're working an office gig and your work is getting done, it's fine. There's a reason I don't schedule any meetings within an hour of the start or end of the day.
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shift work without overlapping shifts
That is 100% wage theft as someone has to work overtime. either come early or stay late.
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Come on time. And if someone stays late they should be paid for staying late 100% of the time.
But they also shouldn't have to stay late. People work jobs so they can afford life outside of work. Making people stay late is stealing from their life outside of work no matter how much they're paid.
When I was a retail manager, I was a hardass on people coming in so late that it would impact coworkers. I covered the floor in those situations, but I couldn't cover multiple departments, but when 3 people are out sick and 4 are late, I can't do it all.
I also fought corporate to authorize more hours so I could have coverage for people to get sick or stuck in traffic, but corporate were a bunch of assholes after our chief competition bought us out and slashed staffing.
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Really depends what you are 10 minutes late for. A meeting with other participants, ok if your role is to sit and listen. Not OK if people are waiting for you to start. It's not OK to be late to relieve a co worker either
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That's how you build anticipation
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You ever ran late to a college class because you had to stay longer than scheduled at your shitty retail job to cover your perpetually late coworker who was supposed to relieve you?
Sometimes running 10 minutes late is no big deal, but sometimes it is. It becomes a problem the moment it causes someone else problems.
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And if this is the case for a business they should plan for it because people will be late. Pretty easy to overlap schedules and be prepared - but that costs money. So obviously we can't do that because the shareholders are the only thing that matters.
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Yes, the business is responsible for their poor decisions jus the same as the tardy employee is, one does not absolve the other.
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The lack of overlap is its own problem but if you know there isn’t an overlap (from looking at the schedule) and you have even the most basic respect for your coworker then you will be at work at the time of shift change. Especially for shitty jobs people work in college you being 10 minutes late means you get paid less money so it’s not like the scummy employer is hurting the only person you hurt is your fellow proletariat coworker
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college class, late is not issue, when its not a midterm, or quiz day. usually the students make plans to cancel thier shifts for those days.
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10 mins late to an office job where they get their 10m back, AOK.
10 mins late to cashier/sales gig where you're relieving someone else, not great.
10 mins late to a meeting is bad
10 mins late to class is bad.
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10 minutes late when you work in a hospital setting could mean I will be staying another hour to finish up what should have been the late worker’s responsibility
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Sounds like poor management to me tbh.
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If you have a meeting first thing, don't.
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If I have a meeting first thing in the morning that’s when I’ll get there. Even if it’s at 10.
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No meetings today, guess I won't be coming in
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I never manage to absorb anything in a pre-0900 meeting. That first chunk of the day is for me to catch up on all the shit that happened since I was last there (personal opinion).
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Showing up early or on time for any meeting, other than a client or outside collaborator , communicates to everyone involved that you have nothing better to do with your time.
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So many well-intentioned posts in here are licking the boot. Traffic happens. IBS happens. Children emergencies happen. The company should shoulder the cost of contingencies to account for natural human fluctuation. If the job is mission critical, why are you demanding humans be robots?
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Exceptions are ok. But what if someone is 10 minutes late every single time?
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What consequences does their being late have for the business?
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Are they getting their work done satisfactorily? Then who fucking cares
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As long as they also stay 10 minutes later, what is the problem?
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A person who cannot be punctual is ill in some way. Do you shine a spotlight on their affliction, sealing their fate? Or do you pull them aside and ask them if you can do anything to support them?
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Not only that, if I'm that crucial to a company my salary should get another zero.
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Do they minder if i stay longer? No? Then why complain when I'm late?
Its about the whole picture, am I always late? Is my work done on time and well executed ?
If so... WHO CARES ABOUT THE TIME OR PLACE I DO THAT WORK IN????
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If it's shift work and someone is waiting on you then arrive so they can go home or start to work and a team its a big deal cause you're wasting someone elses time.
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Yeah, but how many Americans are actually doing that kind of shift work anymore? I know it's not none, but I don't think we're worried about the shoe factory shutting down over this. Those factories already shut down, and managers in places like that don't hesitate to shitcan anyone chronically 10 minutes late as an example.
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Very true. I do not do "shift work". So I have no clue there.
Closest for me would be: being on time for meetings because of the same reason. Do not waste other peoples time.
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You're also there to please the mentally ill manager.
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If you are a firefighter?
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Hehehe.. HEY! IF the fire is out and no one died.. Who cares that I just let the fire die out on his own!?!?
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Because your lateness impacts other employees and that is unfair to them.
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It definitely depends on the job. I work in TV and live events. If your late you either miss the pre production meeting, or we all have to wait for you to start. If your later than that you are holding the team up and making people work harder to be ready by on-air time.
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If your late
my late
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Swipe keyboard and laziness. At least I showed up on time.
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Yeah. It definitely depends on the job.
If you're relieving someone, they might be annoyed if you're late but nobody is going to die or anything. If your work isn't extremely time sensitive, nobody should give a fuck...
If things can't go because you're not there, and it's very time sensitive, then there's a problem. Everyone is waiting on your ass to show up.
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I recently did an essay on intergenerational work ethics for uni this semester. Basically, every generation except for Boomers don't care about being on time when compared to giving quality output.
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Which generations did your research cover besides boomers? Did you cover the ones that came before boomers? I'm asking because the silent generation (1928-45) are already getting rare due to age, potentially requiring different methodology, and it could be that the difference in attitude you observed could be a temporal thing (Everyone older than t thinks one way, and those younger think another way).
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What areas of work did you look into? I have managed a lot of shift work and there’s zero chance no one other than boomers cared in those roles about how others chronic lateness impacted them.
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The papers I read in preparation for my essay mainly covered office, studio and healthcare work. My essay related to work ethics between Boomer, X, Y and Z, not tardiness, so I have no clue about the specifics of what each generation thinks with regards to lateness. Perhaps you could put your findings into a paper and get it peer reviewed.
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Gen X reporting.
Be like Gandalf. Fuck all that other noise.
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That has worked well for me. Pro tip: be hard to replace and they'll have to deal.
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I mean it's really just a ledger of excuses to fire you when needed
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Better tip: unionize
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Being hard to replace is arbitrary and random.
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I consider someone being hard to replace as a problem that may or may not be their fault. If they're actively hoarding knowledge and skills, it's better to bite the bullet.
Personally, I try to make myself unnecessary in my roles by empowering my people. If they can't operate without me being arbitrarily absent for a month, I've fucked up.
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My job doesn't care if I'm late, and my productivity has not changed
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Depending on the work, I disagree.
I work on a hangar deck supervising aircraft maintenance. At each shift change, all toolboxes are inventoried and all tools are accounted for. If people regularly show up late, either the few who do show up on time are always responsible for doing the tool inventories (or any other shift change items) or the previous shift ends up having to stay later, which is just disrespectful to them and their time.
Where my wife works, the clinic opens at 8 and the shift starts at 8 for all but the opener, so if her coworkers don't show up at 8, she's having to manage the patients by herself. On occasion for special circumstances, that's understandable. But as a general "meh, 10 minutes late is just as good," definitely not.
Basically, if tasks are expected to be done specifically at the beginning of your shift, being late is unacceptable.
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I've done jobs where I was legally not allowed to leave people unsupervised, so if my relief was late, I couldn't go home. I feel like that's also an exception to the 'late is fine' rule.
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I have worked jobs that would dock you 15 minutes if you clocked in even 1 minute late, as a result everyone was always 15 minutes late. If you aren't getting paid then you shouldn't be working either. It's stupid policies that lead to this sort of thing, don't blame the employees for the dumb shit admin does.
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Bosses seem to think being on time means being 15 minutes early.
Thoses bosses can go right to hell. You want me working 15 minutes early, you better begin paying me 15 minutes early. I'm not your friend. We have a transaction going between us; I provide specific work between a specific period of time, and you give me money.
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A boss making you clock in early is f’d up. Being a little early to clock in on time is fine. I’m not working for free, though.
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Nah, it's not fine. The time it takes me to clock in and clock out is your time, not mine.
If I need to be ready for work at a certain time, pay me to be there early enough to be ready by that time.
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I uses to do help desk; I showed up 15 minutes to have my cups of coffee as I browsed on my phone. End users complained that they saw me not doing anything/assisting them as I was off the clock.
Boss told me to knock it off and work. So I ended up showing 15-30 minutes early to work and clock in that sweet extra time. Near the end of my employment, boss complained to me that I been racking in too much overtime.
Make it make sense.
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Unless it's shift work, yeah. What's the problem otherwise?
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It's disrespectful of the coworkers or customers thats waiting for them. Have heard so many stories of construction interns that kind of show up when they feel like it. They don't last long.
Had one blithering man child at my job that came in 3 hours late because "he was tired because he was playing Fortnite". He didn't stay long.
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If you're working in a team and they have to wait for you so they can start, sure. If there's some fixed appointment with others, absolutely. If you can't get your stuff done on time, definitely. But if your work isn't that time sensitive, it really doesn't matter if you start painting the wall or doing paperwork ten minutes later.
3 hours late
We're talking about 10 minutes.
On the other hand, did that coworker's work have to be done synchronously? If it's something he could do on his own at midnight and hand in whenever it's done, why care when he does it?
Again. If his tardiness results in work not getting done, I get it. I'm just arguing against the normality of expecting fixed working hours from people for no other reason than normalcy.
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What you're describing sounds like shift work. Also, 3 hours is WAY different than 10 minutes.
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Yeah, but Jimmy from back-office isn't going to get anything done in his first 10 minutes wether I'm on time or not.
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if you have people waiting for you the minute you clock in, then you're on shift work or just in an incredibly poorly managed workplace
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Honestly, if I get the job done and do it to spec, managers can shut the fuck up.
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Mid-millenial, elder millennial for a boss. Start time within half an hour of listed time is accepted practice. Things get done on time, nobody complains about staying ten or fifteen extra to properly wrap up a task. It's very refreshing after years of the boomer song and dance.
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yep for a lot of office work this is the most appropriate way to do it
unfortunately at my company they removed this kind of flexibility from the office staff because it "wasn't fair" to the floor staff
they're different situations. a bunch of floor staff start super early and leave early. why can't some office staff start half an hour later and stay later?
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Is this post serious or just making shit up? Ive never heard anyone claim that 10 minutes late is on time. Late and on time are mutually exclusive words. Whether your work punishes it or not is a different question, im permitted to be 5 minutes late and it counts as on time for example.
This seems more like a post designed to piss people off and make them fight over a position noone had before reading it.
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Yes it is very weird. When I worked IT, there was a period where I was often 10m late in the morning, we had Flex hours so I didn't think too much of it, my hours were 40+ every week anyhow.
It was noticed and I was politely asked to make sure I'm on location at 8 since others might have issues when starting their computers. My bad, I'll do better. And that was that
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There is nothing that can happen at my job that, if not done quickly, will have a real negative impact on a human being. This does not stop my coworkers from acting like the sky is falling if something is delayed by a few days.
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It is, lmao
The same amount of work gets done
But if we accept that explanation, then we also have to accept that people don't work the majority of their workday
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A lot of work is just being available or waiting for next steps without losing track and focus.
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I wasn't going to do anything productive in that first 10 minutes anyway, so...
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Is there anyone covering for you? If so does their time have no value.
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I just have unmedicated adhd and poor time management, i'm 10 minutes late for everything, i'll be late to my own funeral, I'm a millenial or whatever
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"OOOOOooOOOOoO but I'd be a great hunter if we lived in huts Linda. I would be so alert Linda. I could see the patterns and get hyper focused on leaves and colors but no We're stuck being wage slaves forced to live by timings set by normies instead of appreciating my talents if we lived with nothing." - People with ADHD
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As someone with ADHD I laughed at this message.
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Depends on the job
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This. I'm my line of work, the first 10 mins could be insane. When my Co-workers show up 15 mins late, I tell them they might as well have not come in. I've gotten in the habit of showing up 10mins early everyday and my job is so much easier. It's not gone unnoticed and I've gotten a major raise this year.
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I work at a bank, and we're typically scheduled 15 minutes or so before opening so we're ready to help the members who come in first thing. If you get there right at 9:00 instead of 8:45 like the rest of us, you'll still be getting your station ready while the rest of us are busting out asses helping members. It's annoying as shit. It's even worse when the lunch coverage teller is late, since everyone gets delayed (or we're just flat screwed if someone has to go to lunch at a specific time)
Yeah, I know more tellers should be hired to make this not a big deal, but that's not what's going on. It's not too much to ask someone to show up when they're scheduled (or, if you're going to be late, at least let someone know)
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Depends on the traffic. If the job is that important, the company should pay someone to arrive early.
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Trucks leave at 7:15, you're either on one or not working today.
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Depends on what your job is, if it's shift based timing is an issue. 9-5? As long as everything gets done and people xan reach you who gives a fuck
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This is cultural appropriation of italian culture
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As a german: Also the appropriation of french culture. I love my sisters.
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I used to work retail where if I showed up on time, I was late and had customers waiting outside the store.
Then I finally got a desk job and showed up 5 minutes early the first day and had to wait for 15 minutes outside. I then quickly realized most people don't show up till 8:20-8:45. So that's my start time now.
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No, 98%
10 minutes is about 2 percent of an eight hour workday.
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I'm a millennial and I show up an hour and a half late and I think it's fine. I DO put all my hours in so I leave later but whatever.
Also, just get some serious dirt on your piece of shit boss and you're golden. Fuck em'.
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Okay kids, this is what we call, micro management leading to a hostile work environment.
I don't think I've worked for a company that gave a shit if I was 10 minutes late.
One company had a time clock that only kept time records to one decimal place of an hour. The clock literally couldn't differentiate between someone clocking in 5 minutes early, or 5 minutes late.
Anyone who cares about how trivially late you are, isn't someone worthy of your labor.
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It depends on the job. Sometimes coverage matters, sometimes specific times really matter for outcomes.
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That's exactly my point.
Some jobs, it's extremely important to be on time.... A fireman is an easy and obvious answer. Also nurses and people who work 24/7 coverage positions. Though, a lot of those will inconvenience one person because the previous shift person will need to cover; then there's arguments about the one vs the many, etc.
But I'm also not taking about 20+ minutes of lateness here. We're taking about <10 minutes. Honestly, it still wouldn't matter that much for most. Even if you're relieving someone.
You should absolutely do everything you can to show up on time, so that nobody is put out because of you, but shit happens.
Anything that demands less, meh?
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That entirely depends on the job. I worked retail management for a store that had a lot if single parents that had two jobs. I’d cut them slack if they were late getting from one job to another. Im a lot less inclined to tolerate lateness when someone doesn’t have other responsibilities. When their lateness forces others to stay late to cover them it is a problem.
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User “food safety isn’t important” is right. /s
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African American obviously in a hurry to go somewhere
"This lazy asshole thinks being late to the office is acceptable"
Sorry, feels like my eardrums just burst. Did someone blow a dog whistle really loudly?
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Woof! Yum yum
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Fuck those companies. They should be grateful I even sent my resume to their corrupted pile of shit of a company
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I'm gen x and I believe this.
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true. my boss started to accept it.
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If you count your workers minutes, you should be doing something different.
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have you paid anyone to work before?. Have you hired anyone who does skilled labor like a plumber or electrician because those jobs typically charge labor hours.
Monitoring the working times of non-salaried workers makes sense
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As a non salaried worker paid by the hour:
"Go suck a goat, if I haven't clocked in you're not 'paying me,' and once I do clock in the computer automatically tracks it so you don't even have to write '7:05' in a notebook and make HR do math anymore."
Monitoring the times of salaried workers makes more sense, they are getting paid for the time they're late unlike me. Hourly workers who punch in/out are not being paid until they do so, and therefore (short of having to relieve a coworker or be on a line etc) I posit it matters much less if I am 5 minutes late, than it does if the middle micromanager above me making 2x my pay through his salary is late (not like he does anything when he is here anyway.)
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If I have to work 30 minutes late every day and no one is depending on me to be there on time for anything, ten minutes late is on time.
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Elder Millennial, I was almost an hour late for work yesterday, I walked in and made no apologies. Today it was only 11 minutes so I quickly got some candy to reward myself. Tomorrow's not looking great,
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If I start 10 minutes late I work 10 minutes later. Only I am affected by being late. It's not a big deal.
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Same here. There's a few set hours of the day we have to be there but otherwise so long as you get your 40 hours in over the course of the week you're alright. In all the office jobs I've worked there wasn't really such a thing as "being late" or even being late back from lunch
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Depends on the situation. Meeting up with friends? I wouldn't blink at them being 10 minutes late. Opening shift at a cafe? 10 minutes would put me so far behind I'd be in big trouble.
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As a medic, I don't think being late to work would go over well with the public either. Being 10 minutes late to work would could mean Grandma is going to be dead.
But I guess it don't mean nothing if you are working at Walmart or answering a phone.
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And also if you’re opening a cafe in the morning, and you’re late, you are directly harming the place that employs you. Customers will be waiting yo!
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I've always told my daughter to never show up on time because it sets a bad precedent. No one cars if the person whose always late is late. Everyone freaks if the person whose always on time is late.
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My boss can complain to the bus company
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It's a very good day when I show up just 10 minutes late.
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I come in when I get to work. And leave when I'm done. Not at a time. So happy to work where I do, they don't care. one of my department comes in at 8 or before and leaves at 4:30 (16:30), I just try to make it in before 10 and usually leave around 6, so I can garden in the morning and yoga in the evening.
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Yup. I show up between 9:15 and 9:30 because my first meeting is at 9:30. I leave around 4:30 because if I leave any later, I have to deal with awful traffic.
I WFH 2x/week and catch up on work then.
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I give my private number to all my students, so they can text me if they're late for class. As long as it's not often, there's no problem.
Only one of MANY people have tried to prank call me, and he forgot to hide his number... And I could recognize his voice.
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College?
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Trade (or technical) school.
I teach what would be translated as Industrial Technician, but is really just a machinist. They learn manual lathe and milling, measuring, ISO standards, ISO programming on CNC, 3D printing, CAD, CAM, CMM and a lot more.
I have them for 20 weeks in the beginning of their education. The educatiuon takes 4 years in total, including time at their apprenticeship and at the school.
The students can have a contract for an apprenticeship before they join the class, which means they get paid more than if they don't have a contract. They get paid to study in any case.
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Why do you need that information?
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attendance. If they're not there when I call their name, I have to note it to their employer (apprenticeship) online. If they text me, I know they're going to be in class shortly.
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If students are showing up late, it often makes sense to chat with the on-timers instead of starting the lesson, especially if the first activity is instruction-heavy; involves an exercise with reading aloud, group discussion, or presenting; or requires breaking students into groups. Ideally the actual first activity doesn’t, but that’s often just directed chatting and you can extend that until everyone’s arrived. If they’re going to be 15+ minutes late, it might be better to just start the activity and time it so they can join on the next one. If you don’t know if they’re coming at all vs just coming late, it can be hard to time the actual beginning of the class.
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What information?
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Need what info. They’re giving the number to the students, not the other way around.
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the last 5 jobs I spend the first half an hour fucking around making coffee and stuff
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One of my staff does this routinely. Truthfully I don’t give a shit as long as it’s not impacting anyone else.
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I was manager at my last job. My shift of guys ran well without me needing to hand hold them. They knew I would be in within a 30 min window. I was there for more than 8 hours and available by email or text about 18 hours a day 6 days a week so me showing up at 1130pm or 12:05am didn't matter much.
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I don't think I've been on time to work a day in my life. I am an elder millennial.
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I have staff that can be ten min late and it's generally okay (although if everyone did it the same day it would be quite bad). I have other staff where it is imperative that they be on time. Due to having some people that absolutely have to be there on time you kind of have to set a standard for the building though. It can cause some significant animosity between workers if some people have to be there on time and others it really doesn't matter. So like many people said it really depends on the job.
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animosity between workers
Exactly what management is comfortable with in lieu of paying for overlapping shifts which would avoid the problem.
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Some businesses are not open 24 hours a day so what I was talking about specifically is the morning shift. As in the first people that come in in the morning. There is no overlap because there's no other workers the building is closed.
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Showing up just as the ferry left really was a great conversation starter with the guy who was on shift
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Any boss that hassles you about 10 mins is going to fire you for some bullshit anyway (happened to me, I am in fact excellent at my job)
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Where I was working, we had a 15minute sitrep every day preshift so the outgoing shifts had to wait on us to finish it. No roll calls but our teams were small enough not to need it. Sometimes one of us would show up just as the sitrep was done and we lost no time for them
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If it was a 1 hour shift, that would be super late.
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If it was a 1 hour shift I would even bother coming in
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I show up up to an hour late every day because I usually work an extra 3-4 hours in the evening.
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Lmao zoomers just keep amazing me
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Employer here (yes, I know right?! Sigh). Being on time and punctuality is about respect of other people time not about suppressing workers freedoms. We have no time to arrive for anyone. You can use the office if you like or work remotely from wherever you chose. But being late for a meeting with anyone relayed to the firm (customer or coworker including me) has to stay a seldom occurrence. Having multiple people wait for you 10 min is a pain point for everybody involved. It happens, I get it, but it everybody does not keep it to once in a long while everybody waits at every meeting which is not respectful of their time and its wasting quite some money too (Yes my people earn well above average). Is it too much to ask some basic respectful handling of each other?
BTW: there are employees that can't handle that much autonomy yet. They specifically ask me to check their working hours and be at the office present for them to help them get their hours in and help with technical problems. But that's usually new staff which has not learned to keep a routine. With time they usually get it together sooner or later. Surprisingly most make use of the office pretty regularly and just don't come in if they travel to visit family or need to be at home for family reasons. Its a win all around as far as i am concerned.
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As others have said, it depends on the job, but in many jobs nobody would notice (excepting the timeclock for hourly folks) if someone's 5-10 minutes late, and honestly, would they be getting anything more done in that time anyways if they were there 5 minutes earlier?
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Yeah. So…. Gen X was doing this shit in the 80’s. And I’m sure boomers did it in the 60’s. This isn’t a generational thing-
It’s a human thing.
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You want everything finished before clock out and no overtime then this is how its done.
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Still too early.
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Bruh
Eh. This depends on the job being done. In my field of work the only thing that matters is that you get the job done. What office hours you keep are not very important. On the other hand, my friend works shift work where he has to replace someone directing a process (think air traffic control). Being 10 minutes late is a dick move because you are forcing the person you are replacing to stay longer at the end of a shift.
Then shifts should have an overlap.
I know they don't and won't, but there's no good reason not to do it, except that the company would make a bit less money.
Depends on how things are run. My wife works at the hospital and works 12 hour shifts, rotating days and nights. You’re expected to show up 15 mins early so the previous shift can hand off their patients to you.
I’m not sure how you’d do 12 hour shifts with overlap unless the overlap was considerable or shift times were all over the place. The hospital here gets a certain budget and it makes sense to have it running as optimal and efficient as possible. You also get paid from punch in to punch out so coming in early gets you paid more. Realistically her shifts are 12 hours 15 mins.
To overlap the next shift would have to come in early or the first would stay late.
So either you make it even harder to come in on time or you permanently institute the issue of running late.
Not to mention that would absolutely just become another dumbass all Hands-On meeting to waste everyone's time with.
Nah people should just be there when they agreed to, being flaky is not and should not be everyone else's problem.
That doesn't make any sense. If you're supposed to be there at 5:00, the shift should change so you're supposed be there at 4:50, so that you'll be there at 5:00 when you're ten minutes late?
And what am I supposed to do if you do get there at 4:50? Clock out early? Feel you awkwardly hovering behind me?
It's interesting to bring up air traffic controllers because they (in most countries) have strictly regulated work hours. The research into fatigue and safety problems is pretty extensive, and the last person you want working overtime because someone got sick is the controller telling a dozen or more planes where to fly at once.
While not all jobs have the same stakes, that goes to show how it's an employer's responsibility to account for reality.
Literally me today. My relief showed up 15 mins late. I'm now leaving like 30+ mins late because now I'm stuck in the middle of things that they should be doing.