Ukraine Must Cede Territory in Any Peace Deal, Rubio Says
Ukraine Must Cede Territory in Any Peace Deal, Rubio Says
The secretary of state, heading to talks with Ukrainian officials in Saudi Arabia, said future talks with Moscow will be needed to determine what Russia is willing to give up to end the war.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Monday that Ukraine would have to make concessions over land that Russia had taken since 2014 as part of any agreement to end the war.
Mr. Rubio spoke as he was flying to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, for talks with senior Ukrainian officials, and 10 days after a contentious White House meeting between President Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelensky. The Trump administration halted military aid to Ukraine after the blowup, which centered on Mr. Trump’s refusal to include any security guarantees in a proposed deal involving Ukraine’s natural resources.
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Why would Ukraine be negotiating with another adversary? That’s like a boxer going to the wrong corner after the round, that guy also wants you to get your ass kicked.
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Because they're losing and a part of losing in a war is making concessions to the winner.
If Ukraine didn't make concessions for a peace deal, Russia will just continue winning the war and Ukrainians will have even less.
Sorry to all the new people in this world that fell for the propaganda machine. Hopefully this can be a learning experience for you all (it won't.)
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When did they lose the war though?
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Just look at Kursk, Velyka Novosilka and Chasiv Yar and ponder for a bit if they are winning or losing.
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How much of their territory is under occupation vs. a month ago? By your logic, the USSR should have capitulated in 1942.
This war has so far been a series of quick UA gains slowly recaptured by Russia before more quick UA gains. Russia has held more of UA before. What changed since the siege of Kyiv that makes it make sense to capitulate? That was a worse situation, yet here we are, years later and Kyiv is still Ukrainian, and the VDV has still not recovered.
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Because they’re losing and a part of losing in a war is making concessions to the winner.
I've been hearing the line that Ukraine is losing for three years now. Pretty sure if Russia could win this conflict, they would have done so already.
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I've been hearing the line that Ukraine is losing for three years now
And how have the frontlines moved over said 3 years?
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With Ukraine failing to take back their occupied territory, but striking at Russian soil and taking some for themselves to use as a bargaining chip. I'd say it's a dead stalemate right now,
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I'd say it's a dead stalemate right now
Well then you've bought into the western propaganda. Don't be surprised in some months when a very unfavourable peace agreement is signed.
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There might be another 1991 in a few months. Try looking outside Russian propaganda.
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You don't get it though, Russia bad. Therefore, throwing your male population through forced conscription into the meat grinder with no expectation of winning is based and cool and patriotic.
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Which is what Russia is doing.
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Yes, Russia is a borderline fascist empire as it stands now, and its government deserves extreme criticism for it. Sad consequence of dismantling the Soviet Union and selling it to the most corrupt bidder under the supervision of MIT economists.
What's your point anyway? That sending people to the meat grinder in Ukraine is good actually by either side of the proxy inter-imperialist conflict?
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People being dead is not good of course. What choice does the Ukrainian government have though other than to defend their country?
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Negotiating?
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Specifically how? They were okay with neutrality before the genocidal war inflicted on them. They just signaled that they are open to an immediate ceasefire, but the Russians denied the offer.
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It's an unfair war inflicted on the Ukrainian population, but calling it genocidal is crazy. Look at the civilian casualty rate in Ukraine, and compare it with another non-genocidal war like that of the invasion of Iraq.
They just signaled that they are open to an immediate ceasefire, but the Russians denied the offer.
They're open to an immediate ceasefire on their own conditions, which isn't something you can expect when you're, you know, losing a war.
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Genocide is not about casualty numbers, or even targeting civilians. Just the kidnapping of Ukrainian children alone makes it genocidal. "Russification" is genocidal.
And the immediate ceasefire offer was not on any conditions of territorial exchange, just that they would stop shooting while negotiating. Russia categorically denied any stop to the war this year.
Also, why would you say they are losing? It's been a stalemate forever now, and the Russians actually controlled more territory in August 2022, much more territory. All the gains and losses this past year have hardly been a blip.
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Just the kidnapping of Ukrainian children alone makes it genocidal
Ah yes, the "kidnapping of 16.000 Ukrainian children" that the United Nations report couldn't verify and whose only source is the Ukrainian government, which is famously at war with the country it's accusing. There were some instances of kids in the frontline towns being found by the Russian military and in some cases being sent to Russia, but it's not a generalised thing mainly because, well, there are usually no fucking children in a frontline.
And the immediate ceasefire offer was not on any conditions of territorial exchange, just that they would stop shooting while negotiating. Russia categorically denied any stop to the war this year
Now that Russia is regaining Kursk at a fast pace, how would you expect Russia to want a ceasefire? "Hold up, we're losing fast, let's just stop the shooting altogether?"
Also, why would you say they are losing?
Because the Russian troops have been consistently advancing for the past two years, and in the past week most of Kursk including the city of Sudzha has been retaken by Russia. Just don't be surprised when the war ends by means of negotiation and the terms are bad to Ukraine.
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