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Banned from meanwhileongrad for "No db0 allowed".

Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @goat@sh.itjust.works

For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.

More context:

It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment

Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262

He mentions this:

We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.

Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I'll get to that later.

After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:


source

He said that it's different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the "Tank Man" picture to !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819

He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.

He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:

The relevant ones here are:

They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.

After a bit more arguing (I'm not posting the specific comments because it's tedious, and they're easy to see by scrolling through goat's profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.

Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile:

https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615

220 comments
  • I'll state here for the record, since despite I not making a single comment in this entire situation, i've been accused of "denying genocide":

    I know nothing about Holodomor or Xinjiang, nothing at all. I've been meaning to read into Xinjiang in particular, but it seems hard to untangle for me + i'm busy these days. I'm not "denying" shit i literally am just clueless about this, i'm not going to remove pro/anti-xinjiang comments while i don't know shit about it.

    The fact that some tried to twist it into me "supporting genocide" is really fucking malicious. I haven't ever commented on it even once, even in my criticisms of china because i'm simply too uneducated to confidently say anything about it.

    I did upvote Unruffled's comment which was the 'proof', but in my defense i did not see that last part, and i only really read the first paragraph.

    I should also mention i am only speaking for myself, not the other admins. That's for them to do.

    FYI goat, i downvoted the post you screenshotted because the person, @isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de, made this disgusting comment and got permabanned on LW + here for it. He's a horrible person, which is why i downvoted his post. Not because of the content.

    I am not a tankie, not even hexbear/ml users consider me as such; I've also seen other stuff about me being a Soviet apologist (?) Which, no, from using the search feature, I have not it seems. Unless they're including the time I was being nice to cowbee... ? Either way I personally do not have a positive opinion of the USSR but I really don't want to get into that here.

    I have also had a conversation with cowbee themselves once where I told them I disagree with them with the USSR, China and Ukraine about a week ago, so no, I am not an apologist for the Soviet union.

    I think that's all the claims debunked. I feel pretty hurt about all of them and that I had to do this, but I'm glad its finally done. I've been feeling anxious about this for days. But I have already forgiven pugjesus, so I'll let it go. I should've done this earlier, since the smearing was taking a big toll on me and putting way more stress on me than I already had. :/

    • Fyi @Zagorath@aussie.zone

      On top of that:

      To be clear, if I haven’t been already, I 100% condemn China’s actions towards the Uyghurs. Is it technically a genocide? Depends what definition you’re working with, but to my mind it meets the definition.

      https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21075559

      Posting this here as !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works single mod seems quite ban happy lately, and resorting to debatable arguments

      My community is also bigger lol

      https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20731327

    • There's no travel restrictions in Xinjiang, you can just go there. Though you will have to show a pic of your passport to like 50% of cops, and answer the "where did you come from, where are you going, <insert random third, probing question>". They're still cops, but some can be genuinely helpful at times.

      In any case, you're probably going to find while there is nothing recognizable as a genocide, the actual issues and perspectives these people have once you break through the surface are too complex and specific to understand while limited by phone translate, let alone form a meaningful opinion.

      But maybe you'll fare better than me.

    • I did upvote Unruffled’s comment which was the ‘proof’, but in my defense i did not see that last part, and i only really read the first paragraph.

      You also downvoted multiple posts discussing the Uyghur genocide, and that were about, exclusively, criticism of the Uyghur genocide.

      Either you're bullshitting now, or you weren't reading anything you were voting on then; just, I don't know, giving up and downvotes according to who was being responded to, I guess?

      I guess you don't know much about the Holodomor either, considering you and the rest of the admins left that lovely bit of denialism up as well.

      If calling you out for being part of a fucking moderation team that removes one form of genocide denial, but 'conveniently' seems to ignore every major form of tankie genocide denialism is malicious, what the fuck do your actions come off as? Benevolent?

      There was a misunderstanding about Fxomt's votes. I overreacted considerably, and I retract my accusations towards Fxomt.

      • You also downvoted multiple posts discussing the Uyghur genocide, and that were about, exclusively, criticism of the Uyghur genocide.

        I genuinely do not remember doing this, but i apologize.

        Either you're bullshitting now, or you weren't reading anything you were voting on then; just, I don't know, giving up and downvotes according to who was being responded to, I guess?

        I do vote irresponsibly and occasionally vote things that i go back to later and go "why the fuck did i upvote/downvote this?" I've been called out for this before too and i want to be more careful with voting in the future.

        I guess you don't know much about the Holodomor either, considering you and the rest of the admins left that lovely bit of denialism up as well.

        I literally said that in my comment. "I know nothing about Holodomor or Xinjiang, nothing at all"

        If calling you out for being part of a fucking moderation team that removes one form of genocide denial, but 'conveniently' seems to ignore every major form of tankie genocide denialism is malicious

        Dude, I know about zionism + the Gaza genocide, that's something i can confidently act upon. I literally told you i know nothing about what's going on in Xinjiang / what happened in Holodomor.

        what the fuck do your actions come off as? Benevolent?

        Besides the voting which in retrospect was wrong, literally what actions; i haven't removed a single comment or post in this situation.

      • The fact that you're being downvoted for your comment after walking it back can probably be turned into a statement about the human psyche, but I'm not creative enough to make it.

  • and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses

    If you believe that, then you believe there is a genocide. Because cultural erasure is genocide.

    • Genocide is defined as:

      the deliberate and systematic killing or persecution of a large number of people from a particular national or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

      I don't think China intends to destroy the Uyghurs, but want's to suppress them instead.
      At most, we're arguing about using a specific word to describe what's happening.

    • Every genocide in history has been accompanied by mass murder... except this one apparently. 🤔

      • The definition of genocide by the UN convention:

        In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

        (a) Killing members of the group;

        (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

        (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

        (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

        (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

        If the target is to destroy a group as a group and any of these acts are committed, it is genocide. Mass murder is the "prevalent" act, but it is not a requirement for genocide.

  • for additional context, I made a thread about this exchange on hexbear, documenting the issues with the culture on MoG. Specifically the use of 'degenerate' as a pejorative being a red flag.

    • TBH I didn’t think goat’s obvious bullshit needed or deserved a response.

    • Since db0 is math, and math, by definition and practice is both truth and fact, then we have MoL denying fact, as to be expected.

    • i wasn't aware, is there a problem with that word? sorry if this is an insensitive question

      • The term is deeply tied to both eugenics and fascism, Nazis would label modernist art, queer people, Jews, disabled people, and leftists as “degenerate”. There really isn't a reading that's not describing people as subhuman.

        Using it assumes there’s a “pure” social body and that some people are contaminants. It's a pretty clear indication that the user is operating from a worldview fundamentally at odds with anyone that values solidarity and liberation.

        “degenerates” as a pejorative is almost exclusively used in crypto-fascist and red-brown spaces.

  • I think @goat@sh.itjust.works has always been like this but it seems in the past he was able to hide it and make himself seem more genuine and less reactionary to others. Though now it seems the mask has fully come off. PTB for sure.

220 comments