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258 comments
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I think this kind of mentality partially absolves the US of its own homegrown horrors and ignores the imperialist and fascist parts of our own society that have existed here since it's creation.
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Right. Like, yeah, they might be Russian agents but they're WILLING agents. If Russia is asking them to do things, they're things these traitors already wanted to do.
Whether they're Russian agents isn't exactly irrelevant, but it also doesn't really change anything. Russia night have sped up the process, but we've been on this road literally since the inception of our country.
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It's wild to me how much of a boogeyman Russia has been made into in lib circles.
There are probably a dozen or so countries who actively root for and foment political discontent in the US, but for some reason any American that falls into alignment with some loose formation of anti-democraric positions qualifies specifically as a Russian agent
Libs do not realize just how xenophobic their own politics have become. Just because you think your fears are justified doesn't mean they arent irrational
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They willingly cooperate with russia because russia helps them to take power via online botnets. Yeah, they are absolute scum, but you can find those in any society. The problem is foreign interference that gives them voice. Like the one USA now tries to apply to EU countries, boosting the far righters via social media algorithms.
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Like, yeah, they might be Russian agents but they're WILLING agents. If Russia is asking them to do things, they're things these traitors already wanted to do.
So if your grandma buys magic beans from some guy that promises they'll cure her cancer, do you say "we'll she bought them, she deserved to get tricked"?
You are projecting your own mindset onto others.
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Does it matter? The average American does not understand imperialism, their understanding was not needed to create it and it's not required to unravel it
Healthcare, housing, wages... These are the polar bears. They're the poster child, everyone is like "yeah, those are cute. I want to save them"
You don't have to then explain why they should care, which requires them to understand a complex system of relationships
We don't need informed support, we just need support to do good things, some of which should be done loudly and others we don't need to make a show over
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Precisely. The US is suffering what they have inflicted on other countries for decades. It's hard to have any empathy for them now when they are still doing it (e.g. Trump supporting Milei in Argentina).
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One could just as easily say that a meme about US homegrown horrors ignores the effect foreign propaganda efforts are having and absolves the countries hostile to America of blame.
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You could, but it would be stupid
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Stop trying to blame Russia, blame capitalism. I hate putin as much as you (probably more because I can't live in my own house, or visit my parents, all because of him), but it is your ruling class at fault and not some russian influence. Whatever putin could do is inconsequential compared to the wealth and influence the 20 richest people of your empire.
Your billionaires have decided that trump and fascism is the most beneficial choice for them at present, it is truly that simple. What you are witnessing right now is a natural outcome of a capitalist system, as intended by your racist proto-nazi founding fathers.
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Whatever putin could do is inconsequential compared to the wealth and influence the 20 richest people of your empire.
Are you suggesting that $20k in Facebook ads didn't decide the result of a $4B election season?
Sounds like Russian propaganda to me
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It can be two things. Read this or anything else about Cambridge Analytica to get a sense of the difference between what they were doing and the same hack political radio ad hour after hour.
Trump's ties to russia are many and varied, going back forty-plus years. It’s all been documented in Proof of Conspiracy, Mueller found collusion; these are not hypotheticals. It’s a known part of the current befuckdedness.
Is it the ONLY part? No. But it starts there and it stays there.
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Capitalism is a form of authoritarianism. Its anti free market and anti personal freedoms. It uses power to gain more power and control.
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I was with you until last half of the last sentence.
Racist, sure. “proto-nazi”? Who and why? One example would be great, I don’t understand the connection.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery
Do you even care to do a bit of research?
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Stop trying to blame Russia
No.
blame capitalism.
We can do both, but one of them has a more defined paper trail.
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The notion that your "Trump and the GOP are Russian assets" conspiracy theory has a "more defined paper trail" than the countless volumes of work done by thousands of historians, philosophers, economists, and scientists, going back hundreds of years regarding the depravity of American capitalism is just downright laughable.
What are you even trying to say here? Are you seriously saying the Russia/Trump connection is more well understood than the pitfalls of American Capitalism?
If Trump is a Russian asset, why didnt the US pull out of NATO months ago? Why was Trump shipping Jevlins by the truckload to Ukraine at the beginning of the war? Why is Trump's entire schtick that NATO (Russia's primary adversary) needs to increase spending (which it has, in record amounts)?
If Russia is blamed for Trump’s election, we avoid the unpleasant reality of our failed democratic institutions and decaying empire. We avoid facing the inevitable rise of a Christianised fascism borne out of widespread impoverishment, rage, despair and abandonment. We avoid acknowledging the complicity of the Democratic Party in the orchestration of the largest social inequality in our nation’s history, the evisceration of our basic civil liberties, endless wars and an electoral system bankrolled by the billionaire class, which is legalised bribery. The myth allows us to believe that Democratic politicians, like the establishment Republicans who have joined them, are the guarantors of a democracy they destroyed.
All the investigations into Trump’s ties with Russia are unequivocal. There was no collusion. The Steele dossier, financed at first by Republican opponents of Trump and later by Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and compiled by former MI6 British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, was a fake. The charges in the dossier — which included reports of Trump receiving a ‘golden shower’ from prostituted women in a Moscow hotel room and claims that Trump and the Kremlin had ties going back five years — were discredited by the FBI. Sources, including the one that claimed Trump had long-held ties to the Kremlin, turned out to be fabricated. Special Counsel Robert S Mueller concluded that his investigation ‘did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’ Mueller did not indict or accuse anyone of criminally conspiring with Russia.
- Chris Hedges
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We can do both, but one of them has a more defined paper trail.
Capitalism's trail of blood in your country goes back to its founding. It is incredibly well-defined and has been studied a lot (except they won't tell you about it in school or many universities).
And if you want a more concrete link between capitalism and trump, look at inauguration footage again, or look at campaign contributions.
Russia's entire state budget was less than revenue of just Apple in 2024. If your ruling class didn't want trump, he wouldn't be a president right now.
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You cant just blame "those pesky, conniving foreigners" when your country descends into fascism after 2 centuries of racism, genocide, and withering away of social safety nets.
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You cant just blame "those pesky, conniving foreigners"
Nice, trying to dismiss the very real threat Russia poses as racism. Sounds like something a Russian would do.
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Nice, trying to dismiss the very real threat that American capitalism poses as Russian shilling. Sounds like something a State Department agent would do.
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Face it: whatever threat Russia poses wasn't a major factor in getting trump elected. It was paid for by US oligarchs, not putin.
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Agreed. Those damn Russians forced us to genocide the natives and do slavery too, and anyone who tries to deflect blame off of Russia and onto Americans is clearly trying to serve Russian interests, so their perspective can be dismissed without consideration.
Those fucking Russians crapped my pants, too.
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Stop calling them Conservatives. They're Russians
Just absolutely peak liberal. You cannot accept that American conservatives are bad. You need them to be Evil Foreigners.
This is how you end up side by side with Liz Cheney, pockets stuffed full of O&G money, telling your base voters to stfu about climate change if they want to win the next election.
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Just absolutely peak liberal.
What if there’s more liberal than that? Ha! Hoisted by your own petard!
You cannot accept that American conservatives are bad. You need them to be Evil Foreigners.
I don’t know why you’re interpreting this so literally, but obviously US conservatives are not all russian citizens. And they are doing bad things.
This is how you end up side by side with Liz Cheney, pockets stuffed full of OG money, telling your base voters to stfu about climate change if they want to win the next election.
Oh right, Democrats bad again. Hey, why the fuss? You won, didn’t ya? Not enough corpo-libtards voted just like you wanted and here we are waist-deep in insanity shit. Mission Accomplished!
Oh wait you wanted the magical unicorn election where we all hold hands and chant instead of voting so that the outcome of the vote is guaranteed to be pure. Well since that’s literally never, ever going to happen I hope you can take some comfort in pretending it might if you just shit on the Democrats enough.
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Hey, why the fuss? You won, didn’t ya?
Is Zombie Mao doing a Red Terror against the US ruling class? No? You got the wrong team buddy
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It's a class stuggle.
It's that simple.-
I thought it was a political struggle.
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Nationalities are just a convenient scape goat for everyone to point fingers at.
The real problems stem from a billionaire and multi millionaire class that absolutely does not want any kind of democratic government system to develop and to destroy any signs of it everywhere else.
All those billionaire and multi millionaire class owners have absolutely no care if their passports say America, UK, Russia or China ... they couldn't give a shit which nation they align with as long as their wealth is always protected.
Just look at all the wars that are being fought right now .... governments are more willing to sacrifice people and soldiers rather than in affecting the wealth of anyone on any side of the conflict.
If they wanted to stop wars, they would shut down financial systems completely and starve one side of the conflict or the other until someone submitted. But they'd rather throw human bodies into the fray than in even considering touching the bottom line of a billionaire, regardless of which side of the war they are on.
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Everybody Sucks Here.
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The purity of our blessed country and it's founding fathers must never be impungned. All corruption originates with those filthy foreigners, who are ontologically evil, and to suggest otherwise is proof of heresy, of being corrupted by the foreigner.
Washington protects.
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Death to all xenos!
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Holding the bedrock of a nations political power to just being an ethnic group is a pretty wild take, albeit unsurprising.
Like a zoo of a take.
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The Overton window of mainstream US politics has gotten so narrow and so rightwing the major dispute seems to only be about which foreigners are to blame for everything wrong.
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Russia has got nothing to do with it. It's all on the people of USA. No one else
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It's becoming clear there is only one oligarch ruling party in the US, so they're looking for something new to blame since they can just pass the ball from red to blue anymore.
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It has something to do with it inasmuch as it's in their best interests for the US to destroy itself and they do whatever they can to help it along.
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Sure. But the way you counteract oh-so-scary foreign influence is by having institutions and leaders behave in a way that builds public trust.
Just pointing at some nation on the other side of the planet and saying, "They're trying to trick you!" does jack shit. It's misplaced priorities at best and rabid jingoism at worst.
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yeah like why do people keep saying it's Russia like chill
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Anti-fascism has absolutely nothing to gain from dumb lib conspiracies.
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It's a marvelous thing to watch American leaders just blaming others about the things they do wrong. Didn't you hear? Venezuela robbed their Venezuelan oil. They can't be the baddies, never ever, forever.
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Even worse is when politicians blame the citizens. Working two jobs and still struggling? Your fault. Marriages falling apart? Blame gay marriage. Can't afford an $500,000 house? Tough luck. Can't afford heath care? You don't deserve it. Mental hospitals closed? Name a business that sucks and blame their customers. Only politicians get away with it
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Stop blaming Russians it's BlueAnon shit. The conservatives can be acting like garbage all on their own.
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the us was forged on genocide. take a long hard look at yourselves. you don't need other countries to commit your atrocities.
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if only the us becomes a socialist country during the great depression. seriously!
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enough of you with class consciousness can turn the us into a socialist country today and spare yourselves (and us) the worst of fascism.
i don't suppose its gonna be very easy though.
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huh. I never thought about it like that before.
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Weird, it's not the first time I've seen someone respond like this to an otherwise unremarkable comment that heavily criticizes the US. Not to mention your "I'm an ally for Russia in the US" comment.
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Quit blaming Russia for the US doing the same shit it's always been doing, the only difference is who we're doing it to, the people saying this sort of inane shit only care because it's affecting them
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I'm an ally for Russia in the US
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What?
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Might help if centrists could stop calling people to their left fascists and russians for disliking genocide.
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But then they'd have to defend the indefensible
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They defend the democratic party all the time.
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The world does not revolve around genocide, good god, can we see the world at large beyond a single topic? I'm not even a centrist, and I know that's not the reason for the name-calling.
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The world does not revolve around genocide,
The democratic party does.
I’m not even a centrist, and I know that’s not the reason for the name-calling.
You've never called genocide wrong, so centrists don't call you a russian.
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The world does not revolve around genocide, good god, can we see the world at large beyond a single topic?
Sure, the Nazis did the Holocaust, so that's one point against, but their uniforms looked pretty sharp, so that's one point in favor. All in all, pretty much neutral. I don't see why people get so hung up on one single topic.
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This is dumb as shit, completely pointless.
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Or alternatively you can just call them reactionaries, as bad as Russia is they're a drop in the bucket compared to the American capitalist class
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Wait are you suggesting that russia isn't anywhere near as bad as Americans? Cause we're all part of the capitalist class. Every Western nation is...hell pretty much every economy on the planet is capitalist.
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I read in the previous comment "american capitalists". Which is a step up from elsewhere. But yes, also, Russia isn't anywhere near as bad as the formerly united states. Not when averaged over the past decades since WW2. However, at this very moment, Russia is worse - because for once, that other shithole regime has no hot war ongoing. Unless you count their assistance towards the genocide and otjer war crimes committed against the palestinian people. At which point it becomes a tie again in terms of evilness :(
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The fuck, Russian doesn't control shit, they can't even control their own troops half the time.
Trump's just a shithead who will do almost anything when praised by powerful people, especially if given a shiny object.
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Idk man, you remember that time when Republicans went to Russia for July 4th? Russia might not be able to control their troops, but they have enough dirty money they can buy some US politicians.
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I figure that's because Russia hates the gays and is ultra right as a government so it does not take much to buy some of the members of the GOP. Doesn't mean the government as a whole is compromised by Russia.
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There are people in Reform UK that have been paid to spew Russian propaganda and I'm fairly certain Tulsi Gabbard has a similar thing going on. Not to mention that Witkoff dude who's obviously just on team Russia
Also, the ties run all the way from the US, across Europe and into Russia via CPAC and Heritage Foundation and more recently the Christian Orthodox church
So yea, I dunno if "control" is the right word but they defo coordinate
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Most definitely agree. There's influence, but it's not a yes sir Mr Putin kinda thing.
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Why do Republicans have to be secretly in the thrall of the Russians to be evil? Can't the Republicans just be scum based on their own will?
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They are, but they also serve foreign interests.
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They're easily manipulated, the Republican party has made sure of that by keeping schools shit there for decades. You have entire generations of people that will do whatever they're told
Can you really fault Putin for using such an easy target?
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Sometimes they do things that serve themselves, sometimes the American Oligarchy. Sometimes they do things that serve the Russian one. I think its important to be clear which.
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They don't have to be, but they are.
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Red Scare 22.0
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Despite the fact that Russia has been 0% red for the past 35 years or so.
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Yep.
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When libs keep using "Ruzzia" the same way Nazis were using "Judeo-Bolshevism" 90 years ago, it's useful to refer to historical episodes even if they don't perfectly parallel
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But the Russians aren't commies anymore, and the right wing aren't the ones telling us to be afraid of them this time.
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Which makes it all the more ridiculous.
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you mean like how NSPM-7 does it to suit the needs of the Russian christofascists or like how your persecution fetish makes your pp hard when you feel personally attacked?
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None of this is simple, and anyone blaming a single source or calling it simple is trying to mislead.
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The USA
- Over throws the Russian government
- Throws an election and installs a president
- American oligarchs work with Russian oligarchs and leaders to subject the Russian people shock therapy
- A US ally takes control and US works with him for years
- The US literally takes billions of their dollars and freeze their access to accounts and access to global finance and doesn't return it or roll it back
- The Russians continually try and reestablish ties to get their cash back and fail
- The Russians are drawn into a war of attrition against the US and have to switch to a war economy just to survive
- Despite somehow controlling the USA, still haven't gotten access to international capital or their own money
US libs:
OMG THE RUSSIANS TOOK OVER
Americans are so dumb it is unbelievable. You're fucking them hard right now and you think they took over? You're just salty your shit ass government is doing to you what you did to my family.
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You have picked your lemmy instance perfectly
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In the english speaking world, remembering anything that happened more than one year ago makes you crazy.
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When You call the other side crazy so you don't n have to debate them....and just keep loosing elections and supporters 🥱
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Yeah, we have loose elections based off of the insane corporate $$ influence.
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Have you seen anyone “debate” them?
They don’t “debate”. And since you don’t know that I assume you’re from one of the old countries where that’s still a thing?
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I know it shouldn't respond to you, but..... its more like should you consider some of the other sides points vs saying they bad we good. H More than half the country is right wing now because the left is so unpalatable and exhausting.
We gotta stop loosing elections and calling everyone nazis. More and more the left is loosing needlessly because of echo chamber bs.
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This is pure treasonous disinformation meant to subjugate Americans to false fears, and steal their prosperity.
Zionist supremacism not Russia is responsible for our political corruption. That one or 2 Russian click farms in 2016 amplified GOP message, did not change election outcome, and pales in comparison to propaganda and corruption CIA runs in foreign countries to create anti-Russia puppets.
Anyone pathethic, stupid, and demonically hateful to think future prosperity requires perpetuating and intensifying war on Russia is being gaslight and bodysnatched to support the most Zionist, Neocon, Warmonger the DNC will oppress you with.
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Oh no, this is what conservatives are.
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I don't see why it can't be both. If their interests align, they'd sure welcome the collaboration. Like, didn't Trump openly call for Russia to investigate his political opponents in his "Russia, if you're listening..." speech? Aren't the Trumps and other media talking heads being funded by Russian sponsors as well?
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You can make the same point about Democrat leadership with their Pied Piper strategy and funding of Trump back before the 2016 elections. But you won't see "tankies" saying that Trump works for Hillary because that's a dumb ass ridiculous take. Trump works for the US oligarch class and shares every geopolitical point with Biden, thats why democrats just voted for an additional billion dollars in funding to the US miltary.
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Labeling everyone as ‘traitors’ might feel satisfying, but it kills any chance of persuasion. Better to stick to specific actions/evidence and hold those accountable.
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I really agree with you. Divisive language will only get us more division.
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Most Republicans hate Russia and Putin. So this makes sense.
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I've seen some YouTubers say that FAFO isn't going to get them to start voting Democrat.
I honestly don't think they ever will ... so at the very least I think they should feel the pain that they've caused. I don't give a fuck if I can change their minds at this point. I don't know how to reprogram a cult member and it's galling to put that on me anyways.
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Yeah I don’t know why people find this so hard to understand. It’s about identity, not issues. People who identify as Republican who have voted Republican all their lives and whose families have voted Republican for generations aren’t gonna start voting Democrat. The best you can hope for is that they stay home on election day.
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we need a revolution to stop trump - the hardest part is convincing most republicans about the truth about trump. seriously!
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What to me will never stop being funny is that the group that was the most anti-red, the group that would happily end someone's carreer over some faint implied relationship to Russians, that always was the self proclaimed redski hunter, the group that always talked about bombing some freedom into dictators...
That group
That group is the same group that now went fully behind a fascist dictator wannabe who is controlled by a Russian actual dictator
It goes to show, this group, the Republicans, the conservatives, they have no ethics or morals, the leaders will say or do anything to stay in power, lie, steal, cheat, and their supporters are mostly either dumb or racist, mostly both
And they'll never stop making sure you know what they're thinking, they are the prototype loud mouthed arrogant "we're number one babey, yeeaaaahhh!!!!!!" Americans
Fucking pathetic
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They want the Confederacy back. As in an oligarchy with slaves based on race. Modern day Russia is pretty close to that, as were a lot of the Latin American dictatorships, which they also supported.
The main issue with the Soviets in their eyes, was that the Soviets at least pretended to have some decent values. Something, which they despise in other groups as well. Take for example the Democrats.
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Your first point makes no sense when everyone knows Russia hasn’t been red for nearly a generation.
Not to imply that he’s a awell guy, but Putin is neither fascist nor a dictator. Regardless of whatever election irregularities, he really has been popular throughout his tenure. And for good reason: he kicked the Western capitalist neoliberal shock therapy plunderers out of the country, whom Yeltsin let in. It’s still a capitalist shithole, but at least it’s their shithole and not a neocolonized state anymore.
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Now that's a way to offend a Russian. Look, you've even made Yulia cry
Honestly, I'd rather be called kacap, moskal and ruzky all day than be in any way associated with the maga crowd.
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Are those slurs against Russians? I've never heard those before.
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What are you rebellious colonies up to now
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They’re literally turning America into Russia and the bootlicks are cheering it on calling it “manly” when cucking for a makeup wearing pedofile is the least “manly” thing one can do….pathetic
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So many Russian misinfo apologists itt
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You should have to pass an iq test before being allowed to post.
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Make your own lemmy instance and show us how its done! The beauty of the fediverse...
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How’d you get in? Know somebody?
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Thanks for saying this. I wish more people would. There's been a coordinated attack on your country, and the responses in this comment section range from apathy to dismissal to victim-blaming.
Fight back!
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Tankies hit this thread hard, you said something bad about ruzzia. Tankies to the defense!
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be fucking serious right now. this is not "saying something bad about russia", it’s squarely putting all the blame of america being shit on a foreign country.
like no, i think the reason the us is fascist now has more to do with the economic interests of billionaires as well as the racial interests of white colonizers than it has with foreign interference.
stop acting like your country was a perfect haven of progress and was perverted by external forces. the usa has always been awful, it’s just that its ideological rot has just been made more obvious to you now.
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The EU which is often shown as the most progressive countries on the planet, has right wing bullshit coming in hard core. You gonna suggest that's just internal and not foreign actors pushing the division?
Never said the usa was a perfect haven of anything. I'm pointing out that russia has had a big role in creating division in countries for a while now, not just in the USA. Then you have a bunch of tankies coming out with "but usa" deflection.
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Right?
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If you disagree, guess what: you’re a fascist.
Caveat: not all conservatives are Russians, some are Russian shills.
258 comments