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I think this kind of mentality partially absolves the US of its own homegrown horrors and ignores the imperialist and fascist parts of our own society that have existed here since it's creation.
- Right. Like, yeah, they might be Russian agents but they're WILLING agents. If Russia is asking them to do things, they're things these traitors already wanted to do.
  Whether they're Russian agents isn't exactly irrelevant, but it also doesn't really change anything. Russia night have sped up the process, but we've been on this road literally since the inception of our country.
  
  It's wild to me how much of a boogeyman Russia has been made into in lib circles.
  There are probably a dozen or so countries who actively root for and foment political discontent in the US, but for some reason any American that falls into alignment with some loose formation of anti-democraric positions qualifies specifically as a Russian agent
  Libs do not realize just how xenophobic their own politics have become. Just because you think your fears are justified doesn't mean they arent irrational
  
  It’s wild to me how much of a boogeyman Russia has been made into in lib circles.
  It's a convenient thought terminating cliche. It stops them from introspecting. After you are so fucking delighted to support genocide that you would rather lose to trump than stop, you don't want to do any introspecting.
  
  Few countries had figures like Putin who played a long-game over decades to destabilize the US. The ones that do, we're so into with oil deals, we don't care if they did 9/11. I guess... now that I think about it, it is kind of weird.
  
  They willingly cooperate with russia because russia helps them to take power via online botnets. Yeah, they are absolute scum, but you can find those in any society. The problem is foreign interference that gives them voice. Like the one USA now tries to apply to EU countries, boosting the far righters via social media algorithms.
  
  because russia helps them to take power via online botnets
  What makes you think the richest country in the world doesn't have the power to create such botnets in the first place and relies on Russia?
  
  They have their own botnets but they also use russian ones. It's not mutually exclusive. The volume of bullshit matters.
  
  Ok, now, do you have reliable numerical information comparing the volume of US vs Russian botnets? And by reliable, I mean taking into account that the US propaganda apparatus is much better funded and refined and less prone to being caught red handed. A good example of a good study would be to compare demonstrably pro-US-geopolitical-interest-netbots vs pro-Russian ones
  
  What does pro-USA propaganda has to do with personal media power of MAGA election campaign? They weren't even at power to control the state propaganda before they won the elections.
  
  Like, yeah, they might be Russian agents but they're WILLING agents. If Russia is asking them to do things, they're things these traitors already wanted to do.
  So if your grandma buys magic beans from some guy that promises they'll cure her cancer, do you say "we'll she bought them, she deserved to get tricked"?
  You are projecting your own mindset onto others.
  
  I don't know why I'm here
  all I care about is that we (as in US citizens) don't blame the other countries for the shit that we did and correcting the stupid ass people who think that they're the reason everything is so fucked up.
  
  Being tricked into buying magic beans vs voluntarily being fucking evil for money and power
  This is a moronic comparison
  
  No.
  This is like my grandma wants to kill every groundhog in the world and is working on it one groundhog at a time, then she buys magic beans that the seller promises will make groundhogs easier and faster to kill after she plants them, but the seller is also a violent murderer and says that if she doesn't buy them and plant them then he'll stab her. So she buys and plants them, not because of the threat but because it's what she wants to, and then she goes on killing groundhogs but now it's faster and easier.
  You see, the words "willing" and "tricked" are antithetical in this case. The threat is incidental to the story and, on a narrative level serves no purpose but to characterized the seller as evil; he didn't threaten her because the threat was necessary to successfully extort her, he threatened her because it's in his nature to threaten people. The threat doesn't change the outcome in any way.
- Does it matter? The average American does not understand imperialism, their understanding was not needed to create it and it's not required to unravel it
  Healthcare, housing, wages... These are the polar bears. They're the poster child, everyone is like "yeah, those are cute. I want to save them"
  You don't have to then explain why they should care, which requires them to understand a complex system of relationships
  We don't need informed support, we just need support to do good things, some of which should be done loudly and others we don't need to make a show over
- Precisely. The US is suffering what they have inflicted on other countries for decades. It's hard to have any empathy for them now when they are still doing it (e.g. Trump supporting Milei in Argentina).
- One could just as easily say that a meme about US homegrown horrors ignores the effect foreign propaganda efforts are having and absolves the countries hostile to America of blame.
  
  You could, but it would be stupid

259 comments