They're just so wonderfully full of "The ends justify the means" aren't they?
Who cares about all the people he'll hurt along the way amiright? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"We dislike him, we just Critically Support him!"
Accelerationism has worked every single time.
I love being called an acceptable loss, truly it will all be worth it when the rapture revolution comes.
Everyone knows the people most able to take power in the US if shit goes off kilter are the true leftists and not the batshit right wing crank militias that keep clogging up my ham radio.
yep, the smartest plan is always:
They really want to make sure everybody is clear on that fine line between supporting and actively promoting, lmfao.
At this point they know they've been hopelessly infested with right wing trolls and are just pretending that was always the plan.
Who cares about all the people America is currently hurting and has hurt in the past amirite? smug bullshit
Says they dislike trump more than Democrats do then proceeds to explain why they don't dislike trump more than Democrats do.
That checks out.
I'll say it again, but "Dessalines" is legit in competition for the most cringe person on the Internet. Not only does he say shit like this all the time, but he's draped himself in the moniker of an actual freedom fighter who overcame actual adversity to liberate actual people. Truly, the struggle from his air conditioned computer chair is comparable.
He’s one of the original Lemmy creators right?
Opressors need to look like they aren't
He’s one of the original Lemmy creators right?
Tankies love fascists
Lmao the rise of tankies in this space is perfectly timed with China's troll farm campagn to become the new boot on the neck of the world while the US deals with their fascist problem that Russia, China's ally, inflicted on the US.
unironically Germany KPD supporting NSDAP to their rise be like
Don't worry, plenty of tankies on here say "Thalmann did nothing wrong" unironically.
And tankies looove the death camps.
They want their own, but their reasons are so much better, believe them. Or else they'll put you in one.
As an American socialist who has to deal with the collapse into fascism there is no material reason for me to advocate for accelerationism
Maybe if we already had a basis for socialist revolution to save us it would make sense. But there isn't, collapse just means something worse is coming.
So socialists from other countries are cheerleading the collapse of us imperialism, which is objectively fair. But I also have to wonder how wise that is considering what I said above, the US isn't collapsing into a peaceful socialist state but instead a war hungry fascist state which does not put an end to imperialism but rather makes it more direct and brutal
Either way, tankies seem to only admire theory and countries that say they're socialist but actually aren't. If your idea of socialism does not expand the definition of democracy to the workplace all the way up, with recall of representatives where direct democracy isn't pragmatic, I don't think it's even worth considering as an alternative.
As a non American, I gotta admit that I enjoy seeing America crumbling down like this. Their ideology of unfettered capitalism has done so much wrong in the world in so many ways the past 60 years or so. From enabling coups in many countries to establish control over resources with violent pro-American dictators, starting wars over oil, ruining the environment and gaining control over the world economy, eroding people's working conditions and rights and just overall establishing this shitty system where we work two jobs and can't even afford a home or plan for a family or a decent retirement.
You don't have to be a tankie to admit the U.S. has been a shitty ally and overall a toxic country. It's about time the rest of the world dumped their ass to find someone better who will respect them.
Hopefully new alliances will form between countries with better, more progressive and peaceful values, aiming on working together for a better world.
I'm just hoping Canada and Europe can take the lead on this.
I gotta admit that I enjoy seeing America crumbling down like this.
The fuck is the matter with you? The CIA overthrew some governments in the 70s and now you "enjoy" seeing the crumbling of what little right trans people had? You enjoy seeing the crumbling of habeus corpus where students are being kidnapped off the street by plainclothes officers? Do you enjoy seeing the crumbling of due process and the people deported to El Salvadorian prions for autism awareness tattoos?
You don’t have to be a tankie to admit the U.S. has been a shitty ally and overall a toxic country.
Even if your assessment were accurate, and it's just patently, obviously not, enjoying sitting back and watching a government openly bully trans teenagers because the US helped Isreal or didn't provide the aid to Ukraine you would have preferred (or whatever!), is just a horrible, horrible, ignorant and harmful perspective. If you truly cared about "progressive and peaceful values" values, you would be advocating for the US to change, not cheering it's "crumbling".
Of course I'm not enjoying watching people's rights being trampled. I'm not talking about individual Americans!
I'm talking about the country, it's government, it's policies, it's economic and democratic stranglehold on other nations.
When people criticize Israël, do you call them antisemites too because you think they criticize individual jews?
C'mon man. You completely jumped to a conclusion here.
Everything you mentioned is pretty much par for the course for America. The way its gouvernent has treated its citizens by using violence through its different agencies throughout the past several decades. I sympathize with them for what's happening to them. But am I surprised? No. And I sure as hell don't enjoy it. What kind of sociopath do you think I am?
He's russian, anything for the fall of their enemy state is good.
He's a shithead but what's your claim for him being russian?
I’ve been banned from lemmy.ml for stating that Russia invaded Ukraine.
They actively ban anyone who doesn’t support Russian propaganda.
Okay they're being stupid about it (Trump is a liberal? C'mon) but they're right. The ends do justify the means in this case, because Americans have repeatedly failed to get to these ends via any other means. If America won't stop being imperialist, I'll settle for them being incompetently imperialist thank you. I mean don't get me wrong the best scenario is still for an anti-imperialist government to take power in America, but that doesn't seem awfully likely.
If America won’t stop being imperialist, I’ll settle for them being incompetently imperialist thank you.
It would seem 'incompetently imperialist' hurts more people.
I feel like people are forgetting fascist countries become problems for every country.
They're also forgetting whatever solidifies under trump will outlast him, so whatever grace the world thinks they have with Trump's "incompetence" will soon be replaced by competence. Doesn't matter if they can trick Americans into liking them, voting won't be a thing. World domination is one hundred percent the goal. Look at how much they're already influencing European fascist parties.
Who? As far as I know the only things Trump has done that appreciably hurt non-Americans and aren't American business as usual (so other than funding Israel and bombing Yemen) are cutting aid for Ukraine and tariffs, neither of which are imperialist actions (even if the former is vile and the latter is just fucking stupid).
Liberalism isn't just as defined by USA.
I can't say yet the ends justify the means. That depends whether what rises from the ashes is better or worse for the entire planet.
That depends whether what rises from the ashes is better or worse for the entire planet.
I don't know whether it'll be better or worse, but either way it'll be weaker. Assuming Trump has his way, it'll be a long time—if ever—before America can throw its way around the world like it does today. The web of alliances (read: army of accomplices) it uses to bully the Global South into submission is irreparably broken.
The weird thing is you could probably describe the Republican party as liberal for most of their existence but not anymore certainly. Certainly not the last 10 years. Trump's what killed that.
I dunno, Im no Tankie but I was filled with a certain amount of this. No one I know owns any stocks. I was very eager to see dumbfucks who voted for him lose everything, and rich assholes who supported lose something
Most Americans own some stocks. Many working class people are relying on retirement portfolios that they've been building up for decades. If this causes another recession we're all going to pay.
Most do, sure, but it uneven. The higher the income, the higher the likelyhood of stock ownership. Do I have more in common with someone making 62k a year than someone making 100 mil? Sure. Do I understand conceptually that a recession would basically wiped me (and the entire lower class) out? Of course.
But please, understand my point.
Oh no (a random person opinion that won’t affect anything)
Anyways
This isn't a random person lol, but yes
I think this community has lost sight of what we believe "tankies" are
Nah, the accelerationism at the center of OP is rejected by basically every branch of the left. Doesn't work. Just causes suffering in the short run with little to no gain in the long run. Doing literally nothing is a better plan.
They're bringing it up to deflect from the fact that they directly helped a fascist take power and pretending this was the plan the whole time.
Auth left ideology that supports murdering dissidents when it suits them. Or the more common, Russian/Chinese propaganda shills we see today. Russia and the US are forming new alliances so it's going to be interesting how the tankie rhetoric will evolve.
Could you elaborate?
Edit: Huh, guess they couldn't. Oh well.