Only 54% of U.S. adults say they drink alcohol, a record low. A new poll shows what's behind the decline.
Only 54% of U.S. adults say they drink alcohol, a record low. A new poll shows what's behind the decline.
Health concerns are legit, but have they seen the prices? A 6 pack of Bud Light is regularly 9 bucks. FOR BUD LIGHT. Forget about premium brands, those are 12 and up. Hell, small batch locals are up to 15+. Liquor hasn't shot up quite as much, but it has climbed.
Don't even get me started on how much bars/restaurants charge.
The bar around the corner from me charges $16 for a single White Claw.
Holy fuck
Are you sure you haven't stumbled into a movie theater masquerading as a bar?
At that price they better throw some simple syrup in there, needs to at least have some calories at $16
Weed is cheaper.
And is less likely to turn certain people into assholes the way that alcohol does sometimes
Yeah I never get high and want to fight
I'm gonna be honest. I need to do a lot more reading because I'm just more confused about alcohol consumption now.
I'd really like to better understand the direct health effects, like cancer mentioned in this article with low or moderate consumption.
"There is no safe level of alcohol consumption" isn't the most helpful piece of information. A lot of things we consume aren't completely safe. Whether it be carcinogens, red meat, or microplastics, we are always ingesting things that have both negative and positive effects.
Life is about managing risks. Eating fatty or high caloric foods, affects us a whole lot differently than eating whole foods, vegetables, and low carbs. Alcohol is just another item on the list of risks to manage.
How does low to moderate alcohol consumption compare to the risks associated with all the other sources of consumption?
🤔
"There is no safe level of alcohol consumption" isn't the most helpful piece of information.
It’s mostly to bust the myth that there’s some level of alcohol consumption that’s actually beneficial for the health. You should never pretend that alcohol is good for your health.
Yeah, I certainly agree with this is probably the most helpful thing from the article. I've never pretended that it can be healthy, but I know that's important to a lot of people.
While that may be true, there are plenty of instances where alcohol consumption is better than drinking water. Drink wine to avoid ringworms type shit.
For decades the line was that a glass or two of red wine had health benefits, but they were largely deriving that by comparing data to places like Italy, France, and Spain where wine consumption is normalized and they have other health factors.
Same stuff that started driving "The Mediterranean Diet".
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281
On further study though, it gets complicated:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10146095/
"Acute and short-term RW consumption seems to exert positive effects on antioxidant status, the lipid profile, thrombosis and inflammation markers, and the gut microbiota.
Importantly, a longer duration of treatment with RW has been shown to protect renal and cardiac function parameters in T2DM patients, suggesting that a moderate intake of RW may serve as a dietary supplement in diabetic patients.
On the other hand, blood pressure values, homocysteine levels, and gastrointestinal function seem to be impaired by short-term RW intake."
This is helpful.
Of course, it's focused on positive health benefits. I'm not actually looking to justify alcohol consumption as healthy. What I would honestly like to know is if it is proven to be unhealthy.
This article is the first time I've actually heard it associated with cancer risk. And that is with the presumption of frequent and excessive alcohol consumption.
I'm more concerned with low to moderate amounts and what the proven negative effects are. Is it worse than consuming red meat, carcinogen ingestion, microplastic congestion, and any number of other negative factors we ingest due to a bad diet (e.g. high cholesterol foods).
As far as I know, it's about on par. Light, infrequent drinking doesn't meaningfully increase your risk of disease any more than moderate consumption of red meat, for example. Frequent heavy drinking definitely does.
This is what I'd like to see some data on.
You should look up the correlation between alcohol consumption and cancer rates. It's pretty clear-cut; the graph goes down ever so slightly down* and then keeps on rising. The "safe" limit would just be a function of how high a probability of getting cancer you're willing to tolerate.
Medical issues are a common reason not to drink, so the cancer rate for the total non-drinking population is appreciably higher than it would be for a healthy non-drinking individual. There's no causation behind that drop to our knowledge.
PS: I said "cancer," but the same principle applies to liver failure and a host of other "fun" diseases.
If I can find it, I'd be curious about this.
I'm more concerned with low to moderate amounts and what the proven negative effects are. AND, is it worse than consuming red meat, carcinogen ingestion, microplastic congestion, and any number of other negative factors we ingest due to a bad diet (e.g. high cholesterol foods).
I have been following this subject for decades as I have spent most of the last 30 years selling booze.
You should think of it as like smoking weed more than eating a steak.
This makes sense. However, I'm not familiar with cannabis ingestion. I do know that smoking anything at all has increased negative risks.
I drink infrequently, but certainly more than I consume red meat. I might consume one steak a year, for example.
It's also so incredibly dependent on genetics that it's not even funny.
How are you defining "low to moderate"?
Mayo says:
If you already drink alcohol, do so in moderation. For healthy adults, that means:
- Up to one drink a day for women.
- Up to two drinks a day for men. The limit for men is higher because men most often weigh more than women and have more of the substance that breaks down alcohol in the body.
A drink is defined as:
- 12 ounces (355 milliliters) of regular beer.
- 5 ounces (148 milliliters) of wine.
- 1.5 ounces (44 milliliters) of hard liquor or distilled spirits.
Personally, I come nowhere near that. However, I'm still curious, at those levels or less, what the effects are.
One of the many things I've cut down on because of unemployment. I used to socialize in bars more often.
I was drinking heavy but lack of funds meant lack of funs.
Something something recession indicator
When I was unemployed I went from drinking sparingly to drinking like six to eight beers and a bunch of shots every day. It was years of just getting messed up and having fun with my spouse.
Now it’s been way too long of doing that every day and we have bellies. We quit recently (after a medium/fast taper) and the only issue we’re both running into is horrible sleep. I assume it gets better after a few weeks.
I honestly can't help but thinking that the different media diet nowadays is also a driver of reduced alcohol consumption. If you watch traditional TV and movies, alcohol and drinking are absolutely everywhere and invariably normalized as part of everyday life. Kid has problem in school? Mom drinks a glass of wine. Getting promoted at work, everyone a round of scotch. Vacation doesn't count if there are no umbrella drinks.
You barely see any alcohol at all on TikTok, and I assume it's either forbidden or demonetized on all major platforms. Out of sight, I guess, out of mind.
I hate that it's because of visa/mastercard but alcohol is forbidden in porn too.
That's more to do with consent issues on set. At least, it is for studios that run things correctly.
You can find videos out there with fake alcohol, though.
Alcohol doesn't give me any fun benefits. Like, it doesn't remove my inihibitions and doesn't feel good. It just makes me feel nauseus and numb and it doesn't even taste good.
Weed is like that for me, I can't find the high at all, just feel stupid and tired and annoyed. It is so unpleasant. Tried a few times over the years and nope.
Beers cost $15 per pint!
Damn, only $3.50 at my local bar. $5 or so for a nicer one. And if I’m feeling cheap, Applebees has $5 LITs.
I knew it must've been bad given the local place that did 99¢ margaritas on Tuesdays nowjust 5 years later does $3.99 margaritas on Tuesdays
Earlier this year, the outgoing U.S. surgeon general, Vivek Murthy, recommended a label on bottles of beer, wine and liquor that would clearly outline the link between alcohol consumption and cancer.
"Alcohol is a well-established, preventable cause of cancer responsible for about 100,000 cases of cancer and 20,000 cancer deaths annually in the United States — greater than the 13,500 alcohol-associated traffic crash fatalities per year in the U.S. — yet the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk," Murthy said in a statement in January.
The federal government's current dietary guidelines recommend Americans not drink or, if they do consume alcohol, men should limit themselves to two drinks a day or fewer while women should stick to one or fewer.
I recently saw a very good YouTube video on that topic and how the original studies often failed to account for variables.
Slight tangent, but it's weird how 2 drinks per day is a low limit. If you drink even 1 drink per day regularly that's probably an addiction imo
It is a lot easier to do good statistics now than ever before. It’s really important to make sure studies use good methodology.
I’m personally opposed to a lot of meta studies because older studies tend to bin ages and covariates and there is zero logic or evidence to that except it making things seem simpler on paper.
Modern regression spline techniques and knowing to use f tests correctly actually give us much much more reliable models that better use observed data.
As Frank Harrel calls it, dichotomania (arbitrarily binning real values) is a scourge on science.
I would like to know if, health wise, it’s the same to drink 2 drinks per day or four every second day (excluding the obvious short term effects)
4 every second day has much better effects on my mental health.
A lot of these studies will ask “In the last X weeks how many drinks have you had” then they normalize that, so I doubt there’s much distinction in the studies.
I guess what I’m saying is the studies typically won’t make a distinction on that.
If we're being literal, yeah it's a bit scary that they need one drink every day.
If we're talking averages across time, 1 drink a day is equivalent to kicking back a 12 pack every other weekend (plus two more drinks). Just sounds like a good time.
To be clear I've had maybe one beer in the last year, and it was handed to me. I don't really have strong personal opinions about drinking in either direction.
You clearly have no history of addiction of you think a single drink a day is addiction.
The definition of addiction is about a persistent and intense urge. The amount necessary to quench that urge is irrelevant.
It's not the same level of addiction as someone who has a handle a day but a small addiction is still an addiction by definition.
Some addictions are just psychological e.g. weed, but things like coffee, nicotine, and alcohol also have physical effects upon quitting.
That's not how addiction works. Firstly, addiction is not a defined term in the medical or psychological fields so the conversation is kind of pointless. Secondly, amount has nothing to do with it. Lots of people have a "nightcap to help them sleep" every night. That is dependence and problematic or colloquially, addiction even if it's only one drink.
Only a few decades behind the rise of skepticism in the health benefits of smoking. (Even with all those doctors recommending Camel and all.)
I'd point out that the same tactics the tobacco industry used are the same ones being used for fossil fuels. "Clean coal" and the like are just like filtered cigarettes. The lobbying and therefore conservative backing of existing industry groups is also the same. Climate "institutes" and private studies funded by fossil companies that magically agree with industry over every other scientist and reports. Conservative media doing industry propaganda (Rush Limbaughs grave is a gender neutral bathroom) until things get bad enough that everyone gets personal experience with the outcomes. Cancer, heart attacks, skin and teeth issues, etc. There was an increase in lung cancer rates until like the 2000s for men and a little later for women. Lung cancer rates have since drastically decreased as smoking rates continue to go down.
The problem with climate change is that same sort of lag to the worst effects. These heatwaves and wildfires we're experiencing are 30-50y from the worst of it and thats assuming we get our collective shit together tomorrow.
I’m 42 and I barely drink, even when I was in my crazy 20’s I would drink a little but I never got crazy with it. I believe personally it’s because I grew up with an alcoholic parent and most of my family were heavy drinkers and smokers. And seeing them destroy their lives was a reality check for me at a young age. Idk if that’s a factor with the younger generations now but just like politics I feel like the younger generation has learned what not to do. At least I hope so.
Same with me, I binged a few times in my 20s and it wasn't good at all. So I just stopped drinking altogether, alcoholism is in my family genes. It's a dumb ass habit to be honest. Waste of money, waste of health, waste of everything.
men should limit themselves to two drinks a day or fewer while women should stick to one or fewer.
7-14 drinks a week feels higher than “moderate” to me. You can go out and get quite drunk before exceeding that average.
My having a few glasses of scotch or cocktails a month realistically I think are worth whatever accelerate all cause mortality awaits me.
I get that recommendations is zero as the optimal to minimize risk, but we really should ask about acceptable and meaningful risk, and the studies are that drinkers like me are not really much higher risk than baseline non drinker rates. Plus at that amount BMI, activity, diet are all more important factors for health.
I do think the habit makes the difference for these things. It’s good to avoid making these things a habit and keeping them in moderation.
Have a look at the tables on page 25 and 26 of this report: https://www.ccsa.ca/sites/default/files/2023-01/CCSA_Canadas_Guidance_on_Alcohol_and_Health_Final_Report_en.pdf
That table actually makes me feel much better about my drinking habits.
It’s very well presented in that way.
The table for females is super interesting, it’s a lot more extreme
It's nice to see some good news once in a while.
I keep a bottle of grapefruit vodka in the house. It doesn't go bad (easily), it tastes like grapefruit with very little alcohol taste when added to anything vaguely sweet, and if I do want to experience a buzz, I just add more.
That being said, I drink rarely in private and simply would rather not buy it at some insane mark up from a bar. A single beer should not cost the same as an entire 6-pack of the same brand from any store that sells it.
With the increase loneliness crisis 📈 and the decrease drinking at the local pub 📉
I think this headline is not a positive
I just hope we don't slide into another Prohibition, honestly. Between people who don't drink because health, and the social conservatives who want a fundamentalist theocracy, we are squeezed.
For me, it's money - I finally have a good job AND a husband with a good job, and over time have accumulated a collection of booze to use for cocktails. And if we want to go out for a drink it won't bankrupt us. I practice moderation, one drink 3-4 times a week but never more than one, plus two months off each year, and really like that much drinking, feel good physically.
Not just health hazards, but legal hazards, too. Get a DUI, and you instantly becomes a pariah to everyone around you, including work, who may fire you. Then there are the costs, fines, possible prison, increased insurance, etc.
Going out and partying it up in a city that requires cars, is too much of a risk, and getting drunk at home is kind of pathetic.
Also, legal/ semi-legal weed.
Here is a link to the Gallup poll, which I couldn't seem to find in the article above: https://news.gallup.com/poll/693362/drinking-rate-new-low-alcohol-concerns-surge.aspx
Only drink on the weekends. 2-4 drinks spread across the second half of the day.
You see, to do things that cost money you need money to spend.
To get money you can get a job, maybe in a bar or restaurant.
Places that hire people need people to spend money at them to then pay people.
No one can afford the high prices in bars and restaurants on a regular enough basis.
Not enough people go to bars and restaurants to have them hire you, and with less people going there is less reason to go.
Its cheaper to buy booze and drink at home.
Government and everyone wants more money, so the price of everything goes up (booze included).
You don't get paid enough for non essential purchases.
You go into debt, just to have a little joy.
The debts are not paid and the debt companies struggle (klama etc). They stop lending.
You have to cut spending, by not drinking (even the cheap swill at home) you save money and feel like ass less often.
You (and many others) stop drinking altogether. <---- We are here
At some point the K type recession becomes so clear and you understand that you are not on the good part of the K.
Seems about right. My partner doesn't drink alcohol, and I very seldomly drink alcohol. I petty much buy it if I'm going from cook with it, but beyond that, it's money I'd rather spend (or need to spend) elsewhere.
If I'd had to guess, I'd say it's a combo factor of people being poor, health consequences of partaking being more widely known, and adults choosing to socialize more online instead of going to bars.
Being poor is not really a factor. If you want to drink, in most countries usually you can buy some crappy alcoholic drink for cheap.
If people literally living in jail can get a hold of alcohol, pretty much anyone can.
Yeah. There's a reason a lot of places limit the sale of things like fortified malt liquor to certain times or places. It's the lowest cost per unit of alcohol, and often the drink of choice for the homeless.
"The findings of the poll, which was conducted in July, indicate that after years of many believing that moderate drinking was harmless — or even beneficial — worries about alcohol consumption are taking hold. According to Gallup's data, even those who consume alcohol are drinking less."
There's a South Park episode about the alcohol industry relying on ten percent of their buyers being alcoholics. That was me until a month ago. But I quit because it was now rampantly destroying my body in ways that severely affected me, even when sober. I'd keep drinking if I could.
Oh well, more money in my pocket. And more mental energy for nerd projects, which I'd long wanted to get back to anyway.
Only? Still seems like a lot.
I only drink with friends, but one friend doesn't drink, one is an alcoholic, and one also only drinks with friends. It's kinda hard to make it work even if we're able to meet up.
Drinking is expensive and overrated. I was sober for the majority of my life. Went on a 1 year drinking binge due to problems at home. It was fun but I paid a hefty price for it. Not worth it honestly. 2/10 wouldn’t do it again.
Wording is very careful to not offend the alcohol industry.
“Growing skepticism of alcohol’s benefits”
Why not “Growing awareness of alcohol’s harms”?
Alcohol's benefits, you know like feeling like shit in the morning, liver failure, being an asshole...
Look if I can't blame the booze for being an asshole that means I'm just an asshole.
Eh, it helps me enjoy socializing, I'm nice AF when I drink, and I don't get hung over unless I go absolutely crazy with it. As for liver failure, the sooner this shit existence is over the better.
Hey, watch it buddy. Asshole is an upgrade from my baseline, so be thankful that some of us self medicate. (Was a joke, jeez)
There possibly might be something healthy about certain wines that, with other dietary things might keep people healthier afaik, but they probably took that idea and just out it as a factual benefit, alcohol makes you healthy, period!
Don't mind the liver disease, cognitive decline, cancers and what not more. Hell, even hangovers are grrrrreat!
On a side note: pot hangovers are awesome.