4个月前

Leaving GitHub. Seeking ethical music server alternatives.

I'm gradually removing myself from big tech and this month I'm focusing on leaving GitHub, as well as software hosted there. I'm looking for a self-hosted music server that meets these criteria:

Simple UI - Easy to navigate
Docker support - For hassle-free deployment
Runs on Pi3B
Compatible clients on mobile and desktop
Robust and well maintained - No buggy releases

Current Option:
The only option I've found but not tried is Funkwhale (GitLab).
Site: https://www.funkwhale.audio/
Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBcKNoJAso.

GitHub-hosted exclusions:
All the other's I've looked at are hosted on GitHub ( Ampache, LMS Lightweight Music Server, Supysonic, Gonic, Airsonic-Advanced, Koel, Jellyfin, Navidrome). So I won't be using those.

Question:
Does anyone know of other options besides Funkwhale, or have you tried Funkwhale? Thanks!

Aside:
Some reasons I'm leaving GitHub:

79 留言

Clarifying, your looking for a new music streaming service that has a code base not hosted in GitHub? Otherwise it sounds like you are somehow hosting your music in GitHub.
- Good to see I was not the only one who thought that.
- Correct. I don't host my music on GitHub. I'm looking to dispense of software that's involved with it. I'll try to clarify my post, thank you.!
  
  This is honestly dumb. If you hate github then actively downloading from it and eating their bandwidth is helping your mission of killing them.
  Where a project is hosted is irrelevant because if the platform shits itself one can simply just do git add remote someserver and push the whole project over to some new code hosting site.
  You refusing to download from github is quite simply stupid.

I don’t think you’ll be able to find a project that doesn’t contain some code (like dependencies) hosted on GitHub.
I understand not wanting to use GitHub yourself, but not wanting to use a self-hosted software that is distributed through GitHub is kind of extreme.
- I'll do what I can. Perfect is the enemy of the good, and passivity is to side with the aggressor.
  
  Fair enough. I do think your goals are noble, so I hope you can find what you’re looking for.

As an open source software developer, this is a weird hill to die on, and I use and donate to Codeberg every month. I don't give GitHub one penny and I don't support anything about GitHub's AI shit, but I do not mind them eating my costs or other peoples costs for me or them one bit. I'm not at all against having my open source code subsidized by wealthier people.
Sure, go ahead and say "if you're poor and need github's free services I won't use your software" but it's just weird. Codeberg is not a for-profit corporation, it is wrong to demand them to provide free services. It is not wrong to use to the maximum extent GitHub's free services, imo, so long as you aren't giving them money. Bleed em while they let you and all that jazz. It absolutely does cost them, but they don't care so why should the less fortunate?
- I appreciate your perspective and understand the pragmatic approach of avoiding costs. But I'd like to challenge the framing of this as a "weird hill to die on".
  This isn't about individual cost benefit analysis. It's about collective responsibility. In a world where tech companies actively enable mass surveillance and violence (see linked articles), passive reliance on them is a form of complicity (even if we don't pay). GitHub isn't a neutral platform. It's a Microsoft subsidiary deeply entangled with militarised oppression.
  You're right that Codeberg isn't a for-profit corp, and that's exactly why it's worth supporting. The goal isn't to "demand" free services but to divest from systems that profit from harm. If open source only thrives when subsidised by unethical capital, then it can't liberate us.
  As for privilege: it's a privilege to have this choice in the first place while others are being starved to death and murdered while they beg for water..
  
  What are your thoughts on boycotting using the US dollar? Moral perfectionism in a capitalist society is a difficult road. I urge a more pragmatic approach over dogmatic, and just volunteering or performing mutual aid in your community. Or create open source software yourself.

There is absolutely no way you can avoid GH hosted project completely. It's like trying to buy a phone without Chinese parts.
- I respect bigger ambitions, but they can lead to defeatism and paralysis. The point is to do what is possible, rather than let perfect be the enemy of the good. I see it as a minor effort. At least, easier than being forced to beg for food, hoping I won't be executed when I turn my back.
  
  It's open source software. You're free to fork it on any platform of your choosing and support it yourself.

I don't see a reason to avoid using software hosted on GH. I moved off GH when MS bought it, and all that entailed was no longer hosting my own software on GH, and using alternative FOSS git forges. That still has a similar effect, and when a critical mass of devs move off GH, the rest will follow suit. The main draw of GH is that everything's on there; when that's no longer true, it will no longer be the main git forge. Especially once Forgejo adds ActivityPub integration; I imagine that'll speed the process along a lot.
A lone user boycotting all software hosted on GH is realistically not going to make any devs move their projects off GH. You may say that it doesn't have to be a lone user, but I think you'll be hard pressed to get a whole movement of people refusing to use any software hosted on GH.
I also think the boundaries of your boycott are just too ambiguous. What if you download the software from somewhere other than GH, and it just has a GH repo? Is that ok with you? Is it that you just don't want to touch MS's servers? What about software where the GH repo is just a read-only mirror, and the main collaboration/development happens elsewhere, like a GitLab or Forgejo instance? I would rather struggle to see an argument for refusing to use software in either of those cases.
- Even using their free stuff is supporting Microsoft. As long as they provide sophisticated facilities for genocide, I’m out.
  As a wiser person than me once said “be the change you want to see in the world”.
  
  I'm also opposed to "using [Microsoft's] free stuff"; I'm arguing that using software that happens to use GH isn't using MS's stuff at all.

Not suggesting an app but I think what you plan to do as an effort to boycott GitHub is the most non-productive thing to do...
What if it is a project like OpenBSD, which the active repo is still CVS, but has a read-only GitHub repo for public consumption? I believe a fair amount of open source developers rely partly or even totally on donation, and the popularity of a platform has direct impact to their life support. What you are going to do is the easiest as a totally unrelated onlooker - you deem them to be immoral because they host or mirror the project on GitHub, you judged just like how people do on social media when they hear some company doing evil things, spent probably just a few minutes to write a post and created direct impact.
There are many more better things to do. You know why they are forced to host on GitHub so why don't you set up a fund that supports developers to not host on GitHub, or as a maintainer who helps projects to mirror on GitHub alternatives and eventually swtich the active repo to the alternatives?
I have great respect to open source developers who bring us a better world. Please think again what is the difference between what you are going to do vs people who ignore all the heavylifting of open source developers did and say "add this feature in the next hour or I will stop using your software, because I think it is the most important thing to do"...
- I don’t know if you read the articles I linked or not, but there is a stark lack of empathy in replies like this: full of self interest, void of humanity.
  Devs are free to choose other platforms. They don’t face death or famine for doing so. Oppressed people cannot choose their oppressors. If genocide isn’t a red line for you then you have no red lines.
  
  But why are you asking here though? Considering Lemmy is developed on github?
  
  That's exactly why I replied. I think you are an upright citizen and you and many others know full well how evil Microsoft is. But the most regrettable thing to do will be to start with a noble cause and end up doing harm to people who you should help and protect.
  I am not going to drill into anything political here as it is not the right board. But please think about this - helping developers to move away from Microsoft is punishing the evil; Boycotting projects that are hosted on GitHub, in hope of dealing damage to the evil, is not actually doing it. You are punishing open source developers who are contributing to a free world, and not punishing the evil.
  Just like in my original reply, there are many things you can do. Codeberg is doing it by providing a better alternative to developers; Richard Stallman started GNU project and provided a big collection of useful software and libraries to help people move away and fight proprietary tools, not just slapping people who used proprietary software; Even if you help just one more open source project to host on Codeberg, people will be able to find one more project on the Codeberg and can choose not to go to GitHub for that...
  
  I respect your strong ethics and sticking to them, but saying they people support genocide for using software hosted on GitHub is an extreme position.
  I could easily change this: Do you drive a car or fly a plane? Then you must have no red lines against climate change.

... Have you reached out to the devs/maintainers of the projects to find out what their plans are going forward?
Because you may be completely dismissing projects that are in the process (whether its early planning or otherwise) of moving to codeberg or something.
Or even expressed any of your concerns to the devs?
- I have. The dev of the software I'm currently using said that they prioritise personal preferences and software tools above anything else. That's not good enough for me.
  I've worked in tech and that individualistic attitude is pretty prevalent. I've contact devs not on GitHub to check that they have no intention of moving there. I'm waiting to hear back.

Jellyfin
Why does it matter that they are hosted on GitHub though?
- Isn’t that GitHub too?
  To answer your question: even using their free stuff supports Microsoft. As long as they facilitate militarised genocide, I’m out.
  “Be the change you want to see in the world”.
  
  In what way? If anything, it costs Microsoft money
  
  Whatever floats your boat.

I don't have any app suggestions for you but have been reading through the comments and just wanted to say that I'm 100% with you.
I have a similar conversation with other musicians I know and it's the reason that I (and many others) won't release anything on Spotify: Just being there adds value to them and what they do is destructive and dirty.
I hope you find something and keep standing up for what's right!
- Ah, I appreciate the comment so much! I also don't use Spotify for the same reason as you. These exploitation economies are a race to the bottom. Thank you, and I wish you success platforming your music ethically.
  
  Thanks :) I'm happy to chat to any musicians who read this and are curious about alternative release options.
  These exploitation economies are a race to the bottom.
  That's exactly what they are and exactly what they do.

Are you wanting something that you don't have to download from GitHub yourself (so a project that hosts a docker container somewhere and just code is in GitHub is OK), or are you looking to boycott any project that is not boycotting GitHub and so any part of that project should not use GitHub for any code at all in which case possibly even dependencies should not be on GitHub even if they publish their distributions elsewhere? Or somewhere in between?
- That's a good question. I've been thinking about where a middle ground might be. I think if a project does both it's coding and CI on another platform (fully committed) then I can live with that. They can a copy of the code to GitHub for the engagement and audience or whatever.
  But if the project is determined to keep with GitHub specific features (like actions) then that's a clear signal of support to GitHub, IMO. I couldn't support that. So in short, if GitHub is their home base then I intend to boycott, but I don't mind them mirroring to GitHub from something like Codeberg.

I'm going to migrate my own code to Codeberg.org soon. Its open source, and hosted outside the U.S., so checks all the non-corporo boxes i want. Maybe check that out?
- I would very much appreciate a ping when that happens!
  
  Oh, sorry, I meant check out Codeberg.org. I didnt mean to imply I have a plugin for music or a music streaming app you should check out. I do game dev, totally unrelated stuff, that I dont think you would be interested in :P

Funkwhale has/had support for federation. I wonder how that would work and exactly what is federated.
Too late for me to look up the answers so I'm hoping someone else can do my homework while I'm sleeping.
https://az.id.au/ops/funkwhale-configuration-and-first-impressions/
- Funkwhale works nice, but honestly, I am a big fan of just using mpd and piping the audio over a networked speaker, but I'm a simple boy with simple needs.
- Each instance becomes a pod, users on pod A can find content thats on pod B. This includes both actors (users) and library objects (audio content), ordered collections (playlists), etc.

I found this: https://codeberg.org/mysearchhistory123/lms
LMS - Lightweight Music Server
LMS is a self-hosted music streaming software: access your music collection from anywhere using a web interface!
I also found this: https://codeberg.org/thororen/Feishin
Feishin
Rewrite of Sonixd.
Features:
MPV player backend
Web player backend
Modern UI
Scrobble playback to your server
Smart playlist editor (Navidrome)
Synchronized and unsynchronized lyrics support
Some elements of these are on github and I can't attest to either. Neither has recent updates, but should function. Web interfaces and API support should mean that you have some mobile options. Like others, I object to your reasoning, but this is a community to help one another, so your reasoning for your goals doesn't really matter to me.
I don't think that you are likely to find any software that meets all of your requirements, but I hope this helps.
- Those are great finds. I use Feishin as a subsonic client and absolutely love it. Unfortunately the Codeberg repo appears to be out of date, while their GitHub one is current. So I think they've migrated to GitHub. https://github.com/jeffvli/feishin
  LMS appears to be inactive for over a year on Codeberg too, while their GitHub is active https://github.com/epoupon/lms
  It's a pity seeing projects move that way, especially when they clearly put in the effort and had good intentions from the beginning. I might contact those developers, though, and see if they might reconsider. Thanks for the helpful response!
  
  Codeberg or anything hosted in the EU is an unfortunate no-go.
  GDPR DoS Bomb made it so - 'right to forget' means that a bad actor can kill a major project by invoking their right to forget, which would mean all code they've ever submitted would have be audited out.

I use Navidrome and highly recommend it. Nice Canadian developer.
I also use GitLab.
One option is for you to mirror Navidrome on GitLab. I will happily use your mirror instead of GitHub.
Another option is to reach out to the Navidrome dev and propose moving to GitLab. If you open an issue to that effect, I would add a comment with my support.
- Great idea(s)! Navidrome is my favourite and I will really miss it (I'm listening with it now). My understanding is that the project will not be moving platform. A GitHub ticket sounds like a good idea, but I'm unsure about personally pressing the issue with them again, in case it feels like I'm trying to pressure them. Maybe I'm overthinking it?
  As for mirroring, I did come across a project or two that are on both Codeberg and GitHub. Given what I'm aiming for impact (as much as one person can have) I'm not sure what to do in that case. I feel that if the project is tied to GitHub devops, then any mirroring is more of a token offering with little impact. But if the project CDI was on Codeberg / GitLab etc and mirrored on GitHub I'd probably be more okay with it. At least, that's my thinking at the time of writing.
  PS: I use GitLab too now. I host some websites with GitLab Pages. I found the documentation a bit lacking in some areas, which took up more time. But I'm happier with the move.
  Edit: I'm not up-to-date on US politics, but it looks like GitLab is aligned with the current authoritarian administration https://archive.is/okSlz

If you want to go pre-connect, the library usually loans out music. Mostly CD's though, so you'd need a player.
- Libraries are so underrated - always a good suggestion. I have about 300 albums that I like so I’d probably stick with my Snowsky Echo Mini for those. But I should check out the local libraries. (I have an old laptop with a CD player).

I believe, Icecast ticks at least some of your criteria. It's been around since forever, so it's probably the most stable option and even a Pi1 is likely overkill for it. No idea how it holds up in terms of UI, app and Docker, though.
They do have a mirror on GitHub, but the main repo is on a self-hosted GitLab.
- GitLab mirrored on GitHub is totally fine with me, thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! I'll add Icecast to the list of things to look into. I've encountered it with internet radio.

Funkwhale is OK, use it here but served via Yunohost cos I is lazy
- Thanks for the recommendation. I appreciate it!

I have been on this search myself a few months now and JUST stumbled upon something that fits the bill.
Like, i literally just found it and haven't played with it or investigated too much, but it fits your requirements.
raphson music server is hosted on codeberg now! they left github last year.
it has a great looking interface, integrates with HA, uses subsonic API.
I am greatly interested in learning more about this.!!
https://codeberg.org/raphson/music-server
- Ah, thank you for this! I see in their latest issues that they might even create a demo server. I appreciate you !
  
  no sweat. i am on this very hunt myself and understand the apprehension about relying on stuff that is solely hosted on the hub. granted i am no expert, but it just seems to speak to my FOSS soul to try and stick with FOSS through the whole stack if possible.
  in the meantime i am enjoying gonic as the server and mopidy with subidy as the player.
  it's not perfect yet but I'm very close.
  still on the search though!

79 留言