1y ago

LMG has made a response video to Gamers Nexus' concerns

Games @lemmy.world

76 20

199 comments

Lmao Linus immediately jumped back into the "we're only human, feel bad for us" thing
- Yeah, I couldn't watch past Yvonne's section, it just felt like a corporate ad tbh.
  
  Then you missed where they dropped an opportunity to show a new screwdriver variant coming to LLTStore.com 🤦
  
  I was just thinking about how theres almost no gradient between what makes you a "quirky and fun small business" which they want to act like and "oh shit better put on our IBM corporate hats and make another video"
  
  People buying this haven't worked for a mid to large sized company. This is internal corporate coolaid bullshit. Nothing ever comes from this lip service. It's just cringe
  
  Personally felt it was the right thing, and earned some respect back from me. They need to address Madison's accusations separately (which are damning), but they certainly had positive movement with the points raised by the community / GN.
  Each of the department heads outlined their shortcomings and how they were being addressed. It felt genuine and sincere, and certainly not the generic bullshit you usually get from a corporate PR team on damage control. I hope they follow through enacting those plans, and it has a positive impact to both their quality and working environments.
  The only bit I hated was Linus' section (and this is meant to be a criticism, not a personal attack).
  He opened up with a joke that Luke will have a lot to do curbing his (Linus) own behaviour, had a brief moment of sincerity, but went back to immediately defending himself and their actions. He didn't fully acknowledge what his "emotional" response actually did, nor a personal response/apology to both GN/Billet Labs for it. There was no real acknowledgment he will address his own shortcomings. It honestly felt like someone who acknowledges he's wrong (purely based on number of internal members telling him he's in the wrong), but doesn't agree nor accept it.
- Once again he comes out with deflections and excuses.
  Put your ego aside for one second and take this one humbly on the chin.

The "haha, we've made an oopsie" tone of the video (sponsorship jokes, plugging their store link, possible sex joke, deflecting to "I'm just a human" instead of fully taking the blame) don't sit right with me. I was also hoping they would address Madison's comments on why she quit.
- I think Madison's post happened after the video itself was planned, recorded, etc, so it's understandable why that's not addressed. But Linus really has to address what she's said on the forums ASAP at least, because there's a lot of damning claims towards his company from her. Like seriously, wtf Linus?
  
  Also, they should stop deleting all mentionings of the Madison thing on the apology video as they doing are now, makes it all seem very disingenuous and fake.
  
  Given his responses so far, he's probably just going to dig his hole even further.
  
  I really want to make a joke about how they could have added an annotation on the video to address it and how it would have taken “$500 of people’s time” but her post was super gross (about the company, not her) and that’s more of a poison pill for a company than the sloppiness IMHO.
  I don’t watch LMG content and I have intention of starting to so I don’t have a dog in this fight but I always thought of LMG as “decent content but too over the top and silly for me”, the “decent content” part is in question now and the workplace allegations leave a bad taste in my mouth for sure.
  I thought this video was very well done aside from:
  “I don’t agree with ALL the criticisms” - ok, then expand on that
  Store plug - read the room, I thought the sponsor joke was ok but then they did it twice and plugged the store.
  “6 9’s” - didn’t we just talk about filtering for sexual innuendos? Look I don’t give a fuck but, again, read the room
  Linus’ whole section - it really felt genuine then he came on and came off as a petulant child
- To quote poetry:
  Uwu We made a fucky wucky!!
  A wittle fucko boingo!
  The code monkeys at our headquarters are working VEWY HAWD to fix this!
- Sex joke?
  
  "6 9s"
  
  Yeah I get the various other critiques others have for this video but complaining about the "potential sex jokes" is a stretch.
- Agreed

Between this and Madison's tweets I hope the good people can get out and the company dies.
- I never saw Madison’s tweets, what happened there?
  
  See: Madison on why she quit.
  
  I couldnt find too much but apparently sexual and emotional abuse https://www.dexerto.com/tech/ex-linus-tech-tips-employee-alleges-mistreatment-and-poor-conditions-2251613/
- ...the company dies.
  Oh for fucks sakes we have an edgel0rd over here. You can just stop watching the channel if you don't like them.
  
  There's nothing wrong with hoping an unethical company goes under.
  
  I can't hear what you're saying with linus' stringy cock in your mouth, mate.
  
  An unethical company that allows it's employees to be assaulted doesn't need to exist.
  
  he won't see this, my guy

Changes nothing after what Madison has said about her experience working for them. LTT has had ethics and journalistic issues for most of its life, but it's come clear that it's deeper and more sinister than even I had imagined.
- After reading that, I fully expect their plans "to improve" will involve abusing and blaming staff unfairly. Seems like they're already doing that when they blame "human error" for the videos being bad rather than taking personal responsibility, as management should.
  
  Yup. Most of their journalistic problems are self-imposed by Linus and his demand for super expensive equipment for no purpose but cloutchasing/content farming.
  The obsession with an 8K editing workflow and hosting their own poorly-managed content server has already led to staff losing hours of work multiple times (though it indeed made them some ✨content✨).
  I can only imagine how stressful it is working as an editor for a man who completely replaces your hardware and workflow on the whims of whatever tech trend is popular on twitter.
- Link: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741?refresh=1692174340
- Hear Hear.

This situation sucks and was something I would have been willing to see through. But after reading the thread from Madison this morning I've decided to cancel my Floatplane subscription. While the accusations she makes are currently accusations, they're pretty damning and worth taking seriously in case they are more than allegations. I await LMG's response to her thread, as I feel that will be the deciding factor in whether or not I continue to consume and support anything LMG does going forward.
Her thread: https://twitter.com/suuuoppp/status/1691693740254228741
- Gonna pop the ThreadReader link here for those who don't want to log into Twitter: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741.html
  On the Floatplane thing, I am a bit worried for DankPods, who put a lot of backing into Floatplane after he got screwed over by Twitch. This whole thing might have some collateral damage towards the other creators on there, including him. Was considering subscribing to Floatplane for him and his drum streams before this.
  
  I may not agree with a lot of things Madison does as a content creator, but what she's described in that thread is absolutely egregious. This goes so far beyond "trust me bro", and is already bathing in the gas that the company is actively lighting under them. Makes me wonder what kind of NDA and contract all of them have, to keep it hush-hush. I'm worried for the people there
  
  Thank you for this, I don't normally use twitter but I read some people saying the Threadreader app wasn't up to date with all the comments.
  
  DankPods is the only reason why I'd consider using Floatplane, but I've already been a Patron of his for a long time and could just up my tier sub if I wanted to support him more, which I may do if this effects his streams.
  
  Ah shit, I forgot how much dank went in on floatplane
  
  Maybe Dankpods can get into the Nebula sphere instead.
- You can hear James' voice in some of the more heinous quotes :(
- A former employee shitting on their employer during a scandal to draw media attention has been the oldest trick in the book. If more stories come forward or others corroborate the individual claims, it's worth notice. Until then, all I see is someone who took a high pressure job, couldn't hack it, and now they're trying to cash in on the negative experience for media attention.
  
  One party versions are always .... tricky. If this was the case then people that support her need to step up and talk. It is hard to belive a company with such ethics also had good enough enviroment for a colleague to transition and publicly anounce it to the world. Something is off...
  
  Exactly this ^
  Until there's actual evidence put forward (and not just her word), I'll happily defer pulling out the guillotine and grabbing my pitch fork.
  I get the community as a whole is rightfully shitty with how LMG has handled themselves over the last week, but I'm certainly not taking her accusations alone at face value, regardless of how abhorrent they are

Well they made the smartest possible decision in letting us hear from the other humans at LMG. The last thing they needed was another smug non apology rant from Linus himself. These folks seem like actual humans, and they made some very frank admissions of error.
Of course, Linus has to come in at the end and minimize, deflect, and ultimately fail to show an ounce of real contrition, learning, and growth. I feel the most pity for him in this because he’s clearly trapped in his deficient little mind, unable to grow through a major challenge like this. He’s passed beyond his ability to just rant back, but he doesn’t have any other pages in his playbook. The best he can do is rely on the adults around him. I hope he does more of that.
- This video confirms what I've thought for a long time. The biggest problem with Linus Tech Tips is Linus.
  And the fact that the video even declares that it took Yvonne to put her foot down before any changes could take place confirms that LTT has a cult of personality that is damaging the brand and the team. And keeping Linus as a CVO isn't going to change that.
  And of course, Madison's accusations bring a whole new layer to the drama. A layer that should have been more obvious to me given that the only woman on that video was Linus' wife.
  Also, anyone else find it funny that Gary Key made yet another mistake in this video - that Linus was the one that talked about testing every video - and not Gary's own fucking team member? Also his little "I dont agree with EVERY criticism" was a bit too petulant and defensive for this video. Come on...
  
  Excellent analysis!
  Linus ego and "I can do no wrong" attitude consistently adds fuel to the flame.
- He recognized that he was getting emotional again but didn't recognize that it called for another take and maybe some more thought about it all before that take started.
- 👆

Linus should have taken the $100 mill
- LOL! This is the best comment I have read about this whole fiasco.
- After all that has come out..
  Did the 100m exist?

Wait, so people used to take this guy seriously? I watched a review he did on some sim racing gear a few years back and it was obvious the guy didn’t google even the most basic advice on how to set up a sim rig properly.
- I knew he was full of shit, because hell talk about really complicated things like ram timing like he's an expert, then when he tries to use Linux, a package manager is too complex for him and he becomes less tech savvy than my 75 year old mom, so its pretty obvious he knows nothing when he's not being feed answers by some marketing goon
  
  That Linux video was so frustrating
  
  This is so amusing to me, because I had no idea who this Linus was - I was only somewhat familiar with Linus Torvald of Linux fame. I looked up last night just to check that the old Linux nerd wasn't running around stealing water coolers and such.
  Extra funny to see a comment the next morning that this Linus knows zero about Linux.
  
  My impression was that the linux video was meant to be more of a vlog "Watch Linus Do Something" style and not a researched video. And its obvious that he would know very little about an operating system he has never used before.
- For those who aren't aware why errors are an issue because all they've seen is wacky LTT videos where they mess around with stuff--Linus is the most popular (and profitable) computer hardware Youtuber, and he's always done hardware reviews, but to some degree this whole scandal came about because of him wanting to be taken more seriously. Recently he's been using his millions in an attempt to become the most authoritative PC hardware critic by building and staffing a state-of-the-art testing lab. It was one of his lab technicians who made the comment about how their testing was better than that of more respected channels like Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed that kicked this whole thing off. And the whole lab thing makes the continuing inaccuracy of the videos seem that much more egregious.
- You should see the shitshow when he tries to use Linux. It's astounding someone that uses a computer can be so fucking inept. Pretty sure it's all an act to further shit on opensource, which surely won't pay the bills for them.
  
  yeah the linux videos were when I first noticed their lack of research, I always suspected it, but the linux videos made it obvious. Linus did absolutely NO research and put no critical thinking in those videos whatsoever
- Well yea, same with the old mechanical keyboard video, but their new Mechanical Keyboard video is pretty well researched.
- There is no way to set up a sim rig properly. No matter what you do it would still barely feel nothing like real driving, nevermind racing.
  Source: I drive IRL.

Linus always came off to me as one of those people who shouldn't be mangement. Idk, just watching him in videos feels frustrating, and he seemed to belittle his employees in a joking/non-joking manner.
Some of the other "techs" do seem to be very knowledgeable, and i feel bad for them to have to work under a man child.
- The behavior sets an example among the rest of the staff too, it appears.
- He seems like a kid making videos with his friends. Not realizing he is an adult making videos with professionals whose likelihood depends on his company.
- Yeah, I saw that in several videos and it made me uncomfortable. He'd say rude things in a way that didn't actually come across like he was joking. If it was just a friend thing, I could maybe understand it, but there was a big power imbalance. Can't imagine what it'd be like to be on the receiving end of how he can act.

LMG and Linus in particular have not been reliable to me for a while. It all started with the screwdriver. First it was the full of year of videos teasing the product, it was just absurd how long it took to come out. Then when I watched Linus react to the project farm review is where things really turned for me. Project farm fairly rated the screwdriver and as he always does called out pros and cons of each product. Linus seemed to not be able to take the criticisms and seemed to almost get mad at project farm about it. The main criticism I remember is that in the ratcheting screwdriver market there are several companies that offer lifetime warranty and same day delivery/replacement. Project farm noted that LMG does not offer this level of customer service and they are being new to marketplace may not be equipped to handle common problems other supplies easily fix. Instead of admitting that LMG isn't trying to compete with companies like Mac tools or Snapon Linus immediately gets defensive and tries to discredit the need for 24/7 support.
I have also noticed the high amount of corrections in recent videos. I could see not wanting to reshoot a portion of video where Linus is speaking on camera. But why not show some B role and have Linus record a corrected voice over? Edited well viewers wouldn't even notice.
- Linus adamantly refuses to offer any kind of long-term guarantee. He got flak for the warranty on the backpack for that reason; there are plenty of competitors selling bags at the $250 price point that back up their offerings with long or even lifetime warranties. When pressed, Linus put out a mealy-mouthed "oh I don't want to open up my family to liability" statement which both managed to say absolutely nothing (why would his family be personally liable? LMG is a separate entity) and shame critics. It seems to me Linus personally can't handle criticism, like at all.
  
  Wait, backpacks cost that much? I got one for 25 bucks 8 years ago and it only needed some sewing to be perfectly usable. The brand is Polo Power.

Did any one see the pinned comment where they say turned off monetization after community feedback? as if this video should be monitized in the first place lol man this does not feel right

This video is odd to me. The thumbnail of the video is of Linus but you don't see him in the video until almost the end. Even though technically Linus is no longer the CEO of the company the responsibility still falls on him because bulk of the controversy was created by his terrible response post on their forum. Also the tone of this video is very off putting. The awkward half joking "we're human so feel bad for us" tone by whole bunch people other than Linus feels evasive. I think LMG is treating this as a PR problem but clearly it's a serious systemic internal problem and I don't see how the company culture can be changed when Linus is still very hands on. Maybe I'm being cynical here but it feels like they'll just go back to business as usual after this blows over in a week.
- They have said there will be a third party audit/inspection of which the results will be published. I am a little hopeful, though remain skeptical.
  Also the allegations didn't squarely fall on Linus (though I guess the end-responsibility does lie with him). After his blow-up post on the forums I don't have faith he by himself will correct the ship. In that regard I'm also a little hopeful about their new CEO.

Things are not looking good for linus, especially now that an ex-employee is making accusations about terrible working conditions, sexisim, and harassment of all types..

Isn't there a /c/drama this shit could be dropped in? Least technical article ever.
- /c/WatchLTTdie
  
  🍿
- Didn't the original Drama create drama instead of reporting on it?
  
  No? Or you mean Linus' initial response on their forum.
  
  Milking through dramaception
- Drama is like "woke", it means whatever you want it to mean!
  This is a legitimate story about the technology industry.
- Filter out LTT, LMG, and Linus. It's that easy
- I like seeing articles about cool gadgets and science pop up in my all feed, but this instance just keeps belaboring some youtube channel I dont care about. any ideas for some replacements because this place is getting kinda lame
  
  they're one of the biggest tech channels on youtube, and the biggest gaming focused tech channel. A lot of people looked up to them, including myself. In a few days I'm sure the discussion will die down.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=0cTpTMl8kFY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Call me a fanboy but this is not the worst response.
A few things that still annoy me ofc:
Madison's concerns were not addressed (she JUST wrote it, so fair enough, but that shit needs to be addressed)
everything sounds a bit scripted. Shit, just let them say what concerns them and the specifics of what they actually wanna address. Like give examples, so we know that you guys get it.
Linus blaming others sticks out. I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's doing it unconsciously but it really bothers me and I hope it's just truckloads of stress that he'll be able to work through. This is not meant as an insult, but it sounds to me he should get a therapist to talk himself through the feelings. It helped me, and I can smell the pent up emotions through the screen.
It's not perfect, but it's a start. Let's see what comes in response in the next while.
Also whoever hurt, degraded and ruined Madison's mental health fuck you. I know it won't happen, but if you read this Madison, what you went through was wrong and unfair and fuck everyone who hurt you, you did the right thing and now that you're gone, life will improve. If you got through your worst nightmare, you will easily get through the next weeks.
- ... a bit scripted? They were clearly, mechanically, reading from a teleprompter. Your high school "newscasters" are less obvious
- For the scripting, that honestly makes sense for it to be scripted. You can proof and clear what is said beforehand instead of in post w/ retakes. Im not really invested in all this but it does make sense to me.

Too late. Don't care.
I've already unsubscribed.
- You should care, it reaffirms all reasons to unsub.
- same here. Unsubbed from all of their channels. Now I just watch the spectacle from a distance. LMG is dead to me.

You know there is something wrong in an individual when said individual resorts to emotion/"imjusthumantism" and other type of fallacies to answer facts and logic.
- I think there are a few instances where mentioning your own inability or failures are ok. One would be where it's qualified with like, appropriate measures to ensure it doesn't happen again.
  Like if I say I'm flawed and not perfect, it makes sense to think something like this might happen again and hey here are the mechanisms or things in place to ensure my non-perfectness can be addressed and mitigated so as to cause the least amount of harm for others (at my own expense).
  Of course this is not at all what was done or what tends to be done :/

PR damage control

Any brave soul willing to recap the whole story in few line?? How exactly did they screw up so much they neet to post this apology/non-apology video??
- Seems like kind of a straw that broke the camel's back situation.
  A company sent them a one-of-a-kind prototype cooling device and the video card it was designed for to have it reviewed or whatever. The reviewer misplaced the GPU but was under deadline to produce their video, so they used a different video card, and the cooler (as should be expected) didn't function well, but they posted the negative review anyway. After the fuckup was pointed out, they put a very easy to miss "correction" on the video. People caught on that this happens alot, and started to question the value of the content, given so many mistakes and easily missed corrections. This also extended to people questioning the bias of their reviews on products related to companies they have partnerships with or competing brands.
  Additionally, despite being asked to return the device and agreeing to do so, they later sold it at a charity auction. This measurably harmed the creator and it is unknown who purchased it (people speculate it was a competitor), apparently some compensation was worked out however.
  Last I've seen, the former social media manager posted a pretty scathing recounting of time at the company. It included alot of events that indicate this was a predatory and hostile work environment, including sexual harassment.
  
  Thank you and... WoW!
  
  This measurably harmed the creator and it is unknown who purchased it (people speculate it was a competitor), apparently some compensation was worked out however.
  Last I heard from Billet via GN was that they didn't get the offer regarding compensation until the same time Linus posted his first written response, so way late. At that point they hadn't agreed to anything. So a play of semantics for Linus?
  
  Some small corrections here (as I understand them):
  In the video, they actually mentioned that Billet's device was intended for a 3090, but "they (Billet Labs) think it should work with a 4090 too." Unsure if anyone from Billet ever commented on that, but that seemed to be LMG's understanding.
  Additionally, the device was sent to LMG without an expectation of return. They asked for it back after the poor review, but when it was originally sent over, there were no strings attached.
  They did find who the device was sold to, and it was just a random person at LTX (LMG's tech expo), not a competitor. Sounds like they auctioned off a lot of random stuff from videos there, and it was likely mismanagement rather than malice that caused them to sell it.
  The Madison situation is obviously shitty, but I think there's a big distinction between her experiences involving sexual harassment and the "grind mindset" culture that LMG seems to have. Both are problems, but one is obviously larger than the other. I believe the new CEO stated they're going to bring in external investigators regarding the sexual harassment claims.
  When it comes to them rushing things to keep up an unreasonable video schedule, I think that's a valid criticism, but in no way do I feel like it's some kind of line in the sand that can't ever be forgiven. I also think that GN probably should have asked for comment before releasing this kind of criticism against arguably their largest competitor.

They are least released a video outlining their plan going forward, that's immensely better than other times where they've stuck their head in the sand. Be keen to see how this one pans out
- But this video was after a long nasty, emotional rant on the LTT forums. Also after trying to claim compensation had been agreed between Billet labs, all while doubling down in reasons why it'd not changed the outcome of the result of the video.
  
  Yeah, and the video made it clear that Linus needs to get out of the way of the business growing, which is what everyone was trying to address. How well that actually worked is up to you. Personally I'm one for actions backing up words. Admitting there needs to be a change is a good start.
  I think the Madison thing that has come up since the video has seen enough speculation. At this point it is up to LMG to do what is right provided any further action is required.

More juicy nerd drama. Lemme grab my popcorn.
- You mean Lemmy
  
  Hi spez

Sociopath

no way, you're telling me that lmg spreads misinformation? who could've guessed /s

Artesian Builds walked so that LTT could run. Straight into oncoming traffic.

Remember: No one ever lies about anything, ever.

Linus Mtech Gtips
- In case you’re actually serious, LMG is Linus Media Group, the company over LTT.
  
  Linus Tedia Troup

amazing that something as bone dry as tech is now about nothing but drama and personalities and cliques
- now
  Uh.. I think you need to check out the history of computing.
  
  no i know, it's all a big drama.. sells a lot of subs..
- It's always been that way lol

People who follow a tech reviewer whos now a Multi million dollar company and who's always come out as fake are mentally ill. Simple as. Can't grasp my mind about people worshipping this dude/company
- That would imply Gamer's Nexus is equally ridiculous for thinking its important to call out this behavior.

All the whiny complainers are responsible for this sad state of affairs. This is what happens when communist ideology subverts a culture.
- Did you forget you're not commenting on Youtube?
- Gods I miss the years when trolls tried. Used to be an artform. Now every Tom, Dick and Numbnuts thinks being a contrarian idiot is enough to get the job done.
  
  there used to be a sense of pride in a good troll. i long for those days
  
  It's sad, really. Even worse is that we dignify the morons simply hurling shit by calling them trolls. Even worse is that many can't even restrain themselves not feeding them.
- your brain rot is showing, how embarrassing
- Move out of your mom’s basement you loser
- What an ironic username.
- NewsMax and OAN is that way
  points in the general area of….anywhere else
- Did you comment in the right thread?
- What? Lol.
- https://youtu.be/YJ9ZD9oxndM
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/YJ9ZD9oxndM
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

199 comments