Google Gemini is about to control your messages and calls, even if you say no
Google Gemini is about to control your messages and calls, even if you say no
Techbros don't understand or care about consent
No-one in big business does.
Just grab em by the dongle
They got that idea "ask for forgiveness not permission" pushed to them by capitalist extremists for too long. I despise that concept in any context, whether justifying rape or violating privacy or anything else. But I even see it in TV shows these days portrayed as normal. Gross 🤮
They know what it is. But they think it's optional, because us plebs don't deserve a choice. They think they run our world because we use their platforms.
If you don't want this stuff on your phone, lemme point you to:
GrapheneOS (Pixels only, has Most Security at Tinfoil Hat level while also providing compatibility for Google Play (optional, sandboxed) and SafetyNet)
CalyxOS (Pixels, Some Moto G 5G, Fairphone 5, 4, SHIFTphone 8, less Security than GrapheneOS but has Security)
LineageOS (Many older devices, runs unlocked boot so least Security but still can run sans google)
If we are on an old pixel (eg pixel 4) is it more or less secure to switch to graphene? Neither Google nor graphene are doing updates for that model anymore
I've thought of getting an 8 to put graphene on but the recent news from the project about Google making it harder on them has me pausing since I don't fully understand what is affected.
I don't want Gemeni anywhere near my messages and phone content.
You can put graphene on a 4. It won't be supported but will be more secure. Still not recommended by me or grapheneos. They say that the reason they support pixels is due to the security, not the aosp support, and that they will continue to develop grapheneos. Android 16 is the first new build with the changes and grapheneos is testing it now iirc. I would personally recommend seeing how 16 goes (possibly post after the update hits stable asking for user feedback) and decide based on that. You should probably get something new as the complete lack of security updates is quite bad but that could help you decide whether to go with graphene. Personally, I am on grapheneos and am not worried about it.
I was considering a switch but due to recent policy changes at Google, I'm now concerned about long-term (or even short-term) support for GrapheneOS and other custom ROMs:
I don't know anything about tech. I don't want to contribute anything to AI, but I'm afraid I'm going to brick my pixel if I install any of this. Here's a question. If I let them steal my info, does that hurt other people, or just me?
Depends. Do you want the possibility of an AI model being able to fork over some private details in your convos? The potential for someone that doesn't like what you believe in to subpoena google for this data?
As for bricking, it won't, and the whole process is on the website, using a chrome-based browser and usb cable (it detects which pixel you have and does all the hard stuff) but you do have to back up your stuff as it will erase when it gets graphened.
There's a lineagoOS fork that comes prepackages with microG as well, helping to keep google services style stuff working (maps links etc) without using any actual google services. It's my daily driver, would recommend!
YMMV - some stuff still flat out doesn't work if it's too reliant on google services. Graphene is definitely better in that regard, if you have a pixel.
Interestingly, the same mentioned article from Android Police sells it as a "privacy win". I've tried to read it as a positive spin, and I seriously don't understand what these guys have been smoking.
https://www.androidpolice.com/upcoming-gemini-for-android-change-privacy-settings/
I completely agree, I guess what they call "privacy win" is that this feature can now work without storing data on Google (highlighted by me):
Based on Google's email, it seems the company will allow Gemini to access messages, WhatsApp, and control device system settings without requiring that you enable the Gemini Apps Activity setting for your account. This setting saves your Gemini history to your Google account, potentially allowing for better personalization.
Previously, if you had this setting disabled for your Google account, you weren't able to use the Messages, Phone, Utilities, or WhatsApp extensions in Gemini (via 9to5Google). Once this change rolls out to your account, you will be able to access these features without having to save your Gemini history on Google's servers.
When they say
potentially allowing for better personalization
they sound like the companies trying to sell you these features without mentioning the privacy implications of said features. :/
In a glass half full perspective, it won't send all your data to Google's servers. The part they are not saying is that the data even remotely related to your query is going to be sent to Google anyway. They are claiming they will delete the data after 72 hours, which I believe they will for now, but knowing them, there's probably going to be a sneaky policy update in a couple of years.
We use Chromebooks at my work (along with the whole Google suite), and we are bound by the rules of HIPAA. Without a way to opt out of this AI crap, I increasingly worry about what all of this means for our clients' privacy. Especially with this administration, with RFK deadset on targeting people with disabilities.
We use Chromebooks at my work (along with the whole Google suite), and we are bound by the rules of HIPAA.
Assuming you mentioning HIPAA and disabilities, you must probably work in the healthcare industry. What kind of backwater hospital/healthcare company uses chromebook?! I know chromebooks are prelevant in the education industry but healthcare.... They are cheap but Google makes up that money through Google Workplace vendor lock in! Man.... I have seen Linux running on hospitals even in 3rd world countries.... If you can, please quit that job! A healthcare workplace using chromebooks will not give a damn to employee's privacy!
I did care before COVID, and the chromebooks were the safe option. Some sites had desktop computers available, but those had no antivirus and we logged into the admin account with full permissions.
This makes me so happy I'm using Graphine OS. Also the entire idea that there "not storing my history" I don't trust them. They have already been sued multiple times over keeping ingogneto data.
Great, well bye bye Pixel 6a, about time anyways I guess. I knew it was only a matter of time before they did something to make these devices completely unbearable, "AI" bullshit has done it.
Just install GrapheneOS on your device and AI is pretty much gone
Just about to say the same, since he has a pixel phone...
I will definitely give it a shot, I've loaded an alternate OS on a phone before but it was more about customization then. Hopefully there will continue to be options like this for people who prefer to use their own brain and don't mind pressing buttons instead of giving voice commands. I don't want to talk to inanimate objects I talk to myself enough.
I have a 6a, installed GrapheneOS though the web tool, very happy.
Living the good life over here:
How much of a risk is GraphenOS to install? I really don't wanna brick my phone.
Only for Google Pixel phones. The install process is right there. You just need a chromium-based browser (chrome, edge, vivaldi, opera, brave, etc.), an Unlocked Pixel, and the usb cable.
Also, back up your stuff. Flash Unlocking your phone to install a different OS erases everything on it (for security reasons).
I had the same concern so I actually just bought a used newer pixel and started a fresh install of Graphene. It took me several weeks to learn how it works and migrate my accounts and switch to FOSS apps wherever I could.
very low on id say pixel 7 and up its a web installer so all you need is to back up all inlmportant files photos videos ids etc and plug your phone into a computer or another phone running graphene os and follow the guide
So a system-wide wiretap?
Just disable Gemini completely.
No, it's really not. Primarily, because I'm using LineageOS with absolutely no Google services at all installed.
That's why degoogle community have more users recently !
I believe most people who care about privacy don't trust Gemini or Google in general. So it's not an issue if you already not using Gemini app. It can be uninstalled (at least for now) even without going alternative ROM way
There's no option to uninstall on my neighbor's phone.
I went outside my comfort zone and installed Lineage on my old Pixel, only to find out I couldn't get wi-fi calling, so I reverted to my Google OS. Oh no. Any options other than Lineage or a new phone? This 6 year old phone works great except for the lack of updates, and except for the upcoming Gemini updates :( I'm struggling.
Edit: Ubuntu Touch, anybody?
Edit 2: Looks like VoLTE isn't supported on Ubuntu, either. Any idea why?
GrapheneOS is the way to go with a Pixel phone. Wifi calling works just fine on my Pixel 8. As does VoLTE.
I don't believe they support the 3a. I'm really vintage.
Any idea how long support will last for the 8? I feel a little burned by the lack of support for the 3a, though I understand that a) 6 years for a phone is a good run in this wasteful world, and b) wifi calling on the 3a hasn't been dropped by choice, but is actually a complicated issue that small #s of devs are still working on.
VoLTE isn't yet supported in Linux because no one has yet completed writing an open source implementation. Unfortunately, phone manufacturers, chip manufacturers, and cell carriers all hold these cards very close to their chests, so drivers have to be written from scratch by reverse engineering the protocols, which are encrypted on top of being completely nebulous. Support is coming, eventually, but it takes an extraordinary amount of time and effort to do this, which nobody has time to do.
So what happens if I have Gemini disabled overall on my phone?
Gemini now has a second set of toggles buried in its settings menu. You can go to Profile → Apps inside the Gemini app and manually disable access to Phone, Messages, WhatsApp, or Utilities. But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
So I just went to the app in my neighbor's phone, and it asked me to switch. I said no, and it won't let me do anything else. So will this need to be done next week?
Alright, is there some super-populated center for enthusiast nerds who make Androids less 1984 and shit? Like, the fdroid sub or something? I’m still on the ol’ Tim Cooker but when this thing croaks I’m switching teams. I don’t need Google getting sloppy seconds, though.
I mean, feels like everyone has a phone these days. Surely some niche sect of Internet nerds has a cutting edge solution for this shit.
Is it just GrapheneOS with FDroid apps? What about Google Play Store apps, can I use those without getting fucked? Can I retain nearly every stock feature on an Android without selling my soul to Google? Which Android phone should I buy if I want things to run smoothly with the modifications I need to make? (Are those new touch flip-phones on the menu? Are they more durable now? I fantasize about DS emulation, and slapping my phone together to hang up on people. I just remember hearing all about the highly scratch-able screens and hinge problems.)
GrapheneOS puts Play Services in a sandbox so it's no longer rooted. You can restrict what parts of your filesystem each app has access to very strictly.
For now people still send me emails on Gmail, so I still have Gmail installed, but very limited permissions.
It's a huge improvement.
You can also start sessions that entirely shut down Play Services so you're living entirely with FOSS products.
I'm not quite there yet because I still use maps and drive and photos. Gonna figure out replacements, unfortunately nobody else has the traffic and live rerouting that Google maps does, even if you are willing to pay.
If you've got a pixel, highly recommend. If you have a different relatively recent phone check out lineage or e/os.
Thank you. I could kiss you like a mother.
What was the recent chatter about Google making it harder to update GrapheneOS? Did that develop into anything or was it just temporary?
Random aside, I switched from Android to iOS a year ago. I miss Android already.
The UI is more convoluted an clunky than iOS from years ago, just as uncustomizable, and performs shockly bad on heavy webpages on a brand new 16+. It's got no freaking RAM, no sd card slot. Some free FOSS apps are nonexistant or paid only.
Security and OOTB privacy is better and app support is generally better, but that's about it? I'd probably keep an iPhone around to bank on when I eventually switch...
Weird, I have the opposite experience. After an S3 Mini and a Xiaomi Redmi 3 Pro, my gf let me try her iPhone 8 for a bit and I was amazed by how smooth it was running. I've bought a 11 Pro in early 2020 and have been using it ever since. Still works like on the day I've bought it, no slowdowns, smooth as hell. I did do a battery swap after the fourth year though.
I wouldn't mind trying a Pixel with GrapheneOS though. But all Pixels are so large compared to the iPhone Pro lineup.
Graphene, Lineage, Calayx OS are all there. Pick one and never worry about this no control over your phone thing. Personally only used graphene OS but I heard the others are similar.
When they say WhatsApp I gotta think that would be the same for any third party conversation app right? I would never use whatsapp, and I would hope any security minded person wouldnt either. But I do rely on an opensource sms launcher and signal. I would assume the framework would make it mess with those too.
This sucks. Horribly sucks. I can't stand apple products, they cant do anything. I know that even having google play on my android device means I am fucked anyways, but this is a new low from google.
Feels weird to buy a google pixel, only to be able to expect it is the best way to not have google on it. (grapheneos or similar).
And how does this effect those of us that have completely disabled Gemini Assistant?
Seems like you'd fall under the "even if you say no" category
I haven't read a single positive comment here, which is to be expected in this community. But to be honest I kind of like the idea of an AI assistant that keeps track of my schedule, knows about my friends and what I am doing. Of cause I would not use gemini and am happy that i dont have to care about it with e/OS. But something that helps me keep track of things and can help me with stuff seems interesting. I'm interested to hear reviews of it
I hear you, it's the same reason why I still have google maps in my e/OS phone, to see my history and give me more restaurants I can try.
But the compromise in my case and what everyone in this thread also knows is that the data you share will not only be yours.
I think no one here is against a powerful AI assistant that will help is with personal stuff and keeping track of everything, but having to share all your life with someone else is a huge fuck no. They would know way more than even your life partner.
If there was something mostly offline that we could use I think we'd be all up for it.
I am just using oneui but I'm not even signed into a google account surely Gemini won't be after me?
settings > apps > gemini > disable/uninstall
I have the Gemini settings but the app does not appear here. Should I consider myself "safe" or is it cause it's still called Assistant on my phone?
i believe assistant only became gemini this year (or with the latest android update)
previously you could install and uninstall gemini as you wish.
Is this also true about ChromeOS?
"Not my messages and calls," laughs in iPhones
