Scientists prove that fish suffer "intense pain" for at least 10 minutes after catch, calls made for reforms
Scientists prove fish suffer "intense pain" for at least 10 minutes after catch, calls made for reforms
i think this topic has about run its course in terms of productiveness, and has mostly devolved into people complaining about being held to (objectively correct) vegan ethics. locking
Was that ever up for debate? I mean, what do people believe happens when one takes a creature adapted to breathing through water out of said water?
My dad is adamant that fish don't feel pain. He just heard it from someone when he was young, and accepted it as fact because it made him feel better as a fishing enthusiast.
An example of a convenient lie when it suits humans.
Well, if he is a responsible fishing enthusiast, he should be putting the fish out of its misery by stunning it in the head right away. As mentioned in the article, this is still the best way to ensure that the fish don't suffer
they don't want to think about it, or they directly think that all animals doesn't feel pain (or that the pain they suffer it's not important because they are just animals and "we as humans, are above them".
As a kid I liked to go fishing with my step father, and we (or at least I) never thought about what the fish felt, as they were so different to us, and they taught us that this was normal and fun.
It was years later that I really thought about it.
Some fishing magazines downplay what the fish experience before being murdered.
Apparently it's a common myth that fish don't feel pain. I think it's because they show pain differently than mammals (for example, if a salmon let down an ear-shattering shierk when caught, I think we'd think differently) and people don't want to think about it.
'It's OK kids, they're made out of styrofoam. They can't actually feel any pain'
People also believe that goldfish have no memory, and insects don't think or even aren't alive. You'll notice the common thread of these exonerating us for our tiny bowls and our swatting.
It's like the modern version of "animals don't have a soul".
The 2 trillion figure is the minimum: it could be more than 6 trillion every year, and the elephant in the room is that more than half of those are factory farmed - which means humans are responsible for torturing them their entire lives.
"for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka" - Isaac Bashevis Singer
being farmed isn't torture.
I beg to differ.
https://awionline.org/content/inhumane-practices-factory-farms
Depends massively on the farm and the practices.
Being a cow on a pasture looks okay most of the time. Factory farms should not exist.
Apologies for the thumbnail as it's hard to look at.
TL;DR, they physiology is pretty similar to someone filling your lungs with a saline solution, but slower because they're cold blooded.
When you consider this, that most plastic comes from fishing, and that modern day slavery is heavily present in it (no police on a boat, and hard to escape) I actually have more respect for meat eaters than pescitarians. Don't eat seafood, folks.
Plants have feelings too
No, they do not. There is no serious study to suggest that they do. Plants do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli. If you really care that much about the welfare of plants, you should go vegan, since many more plants "die" for animal feeding. Do you feel bad while mowing your lawn? And would you rather rescue a potted plant than a dog from a burning house? Is docking pig tails the same as branch trimming to you? Question upon question...
Prove it. They do not have any sound-producing organs, nor any structured nervous system to coordinate a non-hormonal response to anything.
I don't love the disregard for plant life just because they lack the central nervous system of animals, but this isn't an argument in favor of eating animals. If you want to argue it's better for us to die than to live via harm, that's one thing, but if you accept we have the right to live at the expense of other life forms then the goal of many becomes to minimize suffering.
While plants do have sensory experiences which elicit behaviors, they don't experience the world in a personal way; they're like a robot or generative AI. When a dog suffers, it has a concept of self and an understanding of what is happening to it, and it will carry memories of the experience which negatively influence its quality of life.
Fuck it. I'm becoming an autotroph.
Or you can just eat a plant-based diet that’s actually viable.
How would you ethically kill fish? For animals you could raise them to be old and live decent lives in a free range area and kill them with a stunner, but what about fishes?
Also, what are some good alternatives to fishes for your diet?
Can you ethically kill your dog when they want to live?
You can make fish alternatives with carrots, tofu, jackfruit, seitan, oyster king mushrooms, chickpeas, tempeh, anti choke.
https://proveg.com/uk/fish-alternatives-10-vegan-substitutes-to-fish-caviar-and-other-seafood/
Edit: CW Don’t read if you don’t want descriptions of death of fish
Different ethical systems presume different things. That aside, I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering. So it you’re going to fish, there are ways to minimise suffering of catch. It really depends your setup. But obviously the number one thing is do everything in your power to only catch things you will eat. Secondly, when you do catch something, don’t let it asyphixiate slowly to death. You can do a clean cut around the gill arches or the caudal artery. Which will hit the main veines and drop blood pressure to the brain really quick (very very quick death), this is also useful because then the fish bleeds out which prevents blood pooling in the meat from turning it rotten. Some people prefer to stun the fish before any cutting at all, so the first thing they will do, is hit something hard on the fish’s head which will immediately render it unconscious, then cut the arteries.
The whole asphyxiation to death is really the worst because it takes many many minutes and fish go through things like lungs collapsing and blood clotting which bring immense pain before being unconscious.
you can't kill ethically a fish, cow, pig, dog, etc.
sometimes there are "humane" times you have to kill, for some reason, another animal, because they are really suffering and it's impossible to bring them to health. anything else, is unnecessary.
There are a lot of alternatives for a plant based diet, and being healthy, you have to be informed to know what to eat, and with which thing combine it (rice and beans, together, are a complete protein). there is tofu, seitan, different types of grains and legumes that are protein complete or that you can complete between them
Can we solve human suffering first? Not saying this isn't important... just that it's kind of hypocritical to shift the focus away from the "hard" stuff, to something "easier".
This isn’t a zero-sum game you can help people and the animals at the same time. You wouldn’t be trying to divert attention from dog abuse so don’t do it with the fish.
Please leave this thread and post articles about human suffering rather than attacking articles that advocate for the better treatment of the animals.
This isn’t a zero-sum game you can help people and the animals at the same time.
Prove it.
Show me how you get the resources to do both. Animalists are high on saving whales, kitties, puppies, etc. while letting their neighbors die home alone, or worse... when not directly saying "I love animals, I hate people".
Please leave this thread and post articles about human suffering
No, I think I'm right where I should be. I don't doompost either.
Well we do live in a capitalist society and capital is a zero sum game so it is a zero sum game just slightly more abstract.
This is a false dichotomy. There is absolutely no reason to do both. And honestly, people who advocate for animal welfare tend to also be more outspoken against human suffering.
people who advocate for animal welfare tend to also be more outspoken against human suffering
If I got a cent for every time I've heard an animal advocate say "I love animals, I hate people"... I'd have a couple bucks already. This thread seems to count towards that.
Any critique of capitalism that ignores this aspect of exploitation is bullshit.