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I avoid approaching women in public because I believe it's inappropriate. My parents say that it's a necessary skill. Who is right?

The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they're paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there's a fair number of women that I've seen in public that I've found attractive.

They asked me, "Do you talk to any of them?" and I said "No??? It's inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them."

I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman he doesn't know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, hobby groups, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don't know just because you're attracted to them is harassment.

My parents told me that I'm being ridiculous and making excuses because I'm nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don't have an easy way out.

My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don't exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they're super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she's skeptical when I tell her that I can't do the same thing because I'm a man and would be viewed as a potential predator.

But I also don't get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I'm not picking up on.

So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.

168 comments

  • Honestly, as a woman, I think it’s more about knowing when it’s appropriate to talk to people.

    It’s okay if people hit me up at the park or the bar. It’s not okay when I’m doing my groceries in a hurry, or when I’m crossing the street 😆 and if you get “rejected” (sometimes it’s not a hard rejection, my social schedule is just already full), just take it well and go talk to someone else.

    I don’t think this is rocket science, and apart from some teenagers whistling me from across the street (which I always pretend I can’t hear), almost all adults get this right.

  • This thread is not meant for autistic people.

    "Yes you can talk to women in public, but also not flirt with them even though that's the obvious context of the post, but also there are some public places you can flirt with them that are somehow different from the other public places, and also it's fine in the places where it isn't."

    I've come to the conclusion from this thread that the answer lies somewhere near "actually some women hate it and some women don't, and since the only way to find out which is which is by stepping on the landmine, you might as well flirt with anyone you want at wherever you see them, but do it politely and move on if she says no."

    And in all honesty, yeah fuck it, I'm gonna. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, but being that the other option is "die alone and get eaten by my cats" I think it's just going to have to happen.

    • you might as well flirt with anyone you want at wherever you see them, but do it politely and move on if she says no.

      Yeah that’s about all you can do in reality.

      Just remember not to be persistent if it feels off immediately, do not violate anyone’s space more than necessary (do not go for physical contact as a rule of thumb, strike up a conversation instead, if unsure of social rules) and most importantly, listen to them and try your best to take the hint if they can’t find a way to be direct and instead attempt to politely fend you off.

      But there are a lot of social rules and cues everyone should be aware of, which definitely makes it hard for those unable to feel them. It doesn’t mean you can’t try your darnest though. Intent is important, so as long as you mean no harm, and do not break the obvious rules of personal space and no is no, nothing irreversible will happen.

      It is and will be awkward, but it often is for us too who can sense and understand (at least most of) the “rules”. That’s just being human.

      The worst is if you overthink it. Just figure if it’s appropriate and follow some sensible rules of thumb if it’s hard to sense the appropriateness, and then be the awkward clumsy you that most of everyone is in context like this.

      Even if you radiate charm, are a natural with words and gestures, are in perfect harmony with the ambiguous rules of social interactions etc, you’re bound to misread people and situations sooner rather than later, and that’s just something that happens.

      Being human is… very human. That is, awkward and clumsy and often disappointing. The upside is that it’s also surprising, exciting, invigorating and so full of possibilities and such joy, if you just manage to get past the also very human aversion to any potential awkwardness or disappointments.

      This became a weird rant. But as someone with adhd and some weird natural drive for other humans that I haven’t been able to understand myself, I do often fail to think things through and approach people without much thinking. I have the benefit of naturally not overthinking it until after the fact. The world has never ended and I’ve lived a colorful, socially rich life, and for whatever it’s worth, I’ve not ended up being perceived as a creep or a threat or whatever, at least not widely so. So that tells me it’s pretty hard to cause any real damage to yourself or others as long as you’re respectful, aware of the dynamic and even if not fully aware of the social cues and rules, follow a set of your own rules of thumb that you find result in socially acceptable behaviour.

      Don’t let the fear of unknown or being ridiculed or whatever block you from having meaningful social interactions. Even the most charismatic or naturally social and talkative of us end up in awkward situations and sometimes end up disappointed or ashamed for reading the cues wrong. Stuff happens. That’s life. For everyone.

      But just try and be mindful of the place, the time, the surroundings, and do not violate anyone’s personal space more than necessary, and take no as an answer immediately if even hinted at. Might sound like even that’s a lot, but in time, with practice, as with just about everything else we do, these things will start coming naturally and built in in our everyday goings on.

      Trust in yourself if you mean no harm. That’s about it. No one can fault someone with good intentions and respectful manners, if they keep their space and don’t persist when told or hinted no. You might get ashamed or even shocked for how wrong you read stuff, but again, that happens to everyone, even if rarely. We are all humans, and there’s a baseline level of awkwardness and inability to really read anyone’s mind that comes with the territory. So just try and trust yourself in that.

    • Makes me think if I'm autistic

    • If you don’t open by flirting then it shouldn’t be a land mine at all. Also, be mindful of the context. Most people don’t really want you to hit them up at the sidewalk, but it’s probably okay at the park, as long as you don’t shove your face close to mine right away 😂

    • Let me prephase this by saying that I have never been officially diagnosed but there's a good chance that I'm in the spectrum.

      This is my philosophy on the matter: you won't find a girlfriend talking to a random person just because of their looks, so if it was a guy, would you talk to them? If the answer is no then I won't. For example, pretty girl on the bus, I wouldn't talk to a pretty guy on the bus so I don't; Pretty girl talking about something I have an interest in, or similar, I might talk to a pretty guy doing that about our common interest so I feel it's okay. That being said I'm not much for talking to random strangers in person unless we're in a social gathering, and I would feel very uncomfortable itlf a random person came to talk to me out of the blue, so even though all that I said above there's a 99% chance I won't talk to a random person anyways.

  • In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.

    I don't agree with this. You can approach women in public and talk to us without it being harassment. If you approach someone and they tell you to leave them alone and you don't or they're obviously uncomfortable and you persist then it's harassment.

    For some context: I'm not as old as your parents but I'm older than you (I'm late 30s).

  • Your parents are right. It is absolutely a skill that you should learn. The 'times have changed' crowd just haven't stepped up to the new level of difficulty.

    It is not wrong to strike up a conversation with a stranger so long as the setting is appropriate and you pick up on the clues they give on whether the interaction is welcome or not. That is the skill you're learning.

    Whether it is technically 'necessary' is debatable, but it is antisocial to flat out avoid doing so by definition.

  • You're not wrong, but you've got a bit of an extreme take on it. I think you and your parents may have different thoughts on what it means to "approach" a woman though. I'm going to use "flirt" to refer to talking to a woman with intent of seeing if they would make a good partner for you and just "talk" to indicate just being friendly with someone.

    it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman who doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers

    No, it's fine to talk to strangers of any gender in public. Approaching them and flirting with them is not. As long as you can roughly understand when you're making someone uncomfortable and stop it, you're not going to come off as a creep/predator. Stuck in a lineup in a store? Chat with someone beside you, maybe commiserate about how long the line is. If you want to flirt with them, then yes the situations you mentioned are definitely the places to do that.

    (sort of an aside: whether "meeting friends of friends" is an appropriate situation to flirt with someone you just met is still situation dependent)

    They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner.

    Approaching women in random public spaces with the intent of finding a partner is also a pretty bad idea. While it could work, it's definitely creep/predator behaviour so I avoid it. It's very likely to make them uncomfortable, since they're just trying to do their thing not get hit on. This can easily be harassment, though I'm on the fence on whether it's always harassment.

    Personally I like to flip the genders on situations like this and ask if I'd want to be the other person in this situation. It's worth keeping in mind that woman have way more statistical reasons to be weary/wary of any interaction with men, though. Regardless, e.g. if some woman was beside me in line and started chatting with me, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me and complimented my shirt, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me, complimented my shirt, and then asked for my number I'd be weirded out (I don't know you, lady). If some woman came up to me and asked me to take out my earbuds to commiserate about how long the line is, I'd be annoyed that I'm missing my music.

  • I'm forty, so a different generation than your parents, but I still grew up and had my first dating experiences before the internet. Online dating wasn't really a thing here until I was in my early twenties.

    At least where I grew up the guys who randomly approached girls to ask them out were seen as creepy even back in the 90s. I and everyone I knew met partners through activities like sports clubs, parties, bars etc. (I'm not from the US, so people from my school started going to bars pretty early). While there wasn't a big discourse around men approaching women in public (or none that reached my little town), we did have some guys in town who'd just walk up to girls on the street and ask them out and the consensus was that they were weird and should be avoided.

    I met all my partners so far through activities. My first boyfriend was a regular at the same student café and we ended up sitting next to each other during quiz night. I met guys I had dates with in uni - sitting next to each other during lectures and talking about the Prof, going to the same presentation or cooking night etc. None of them "approached me" in the sense of coming up to me and asking "can I have your number" with zero context. We chatted, had an interesting conversation. At the end we exchanged contact information to meet for a coffee, usually without any expectation of it being a date. When coffee went well, someone would ask the other out on a proper date. No approaching, no deciding within a few seconds wether you want to date someone. Just casually getting to know each other before asking for more.

    I also met my husband that way. We went to the same event, talked, had a lot in common. We met the next day to continue a discussion about a certain topic we were both interested in. That's when things started getting flirty and by the end we made plans to meet for a real date. I don't even remember who asked whom, we were both heavily flirting with each by the time we talked about seeing each other again so it was very obvious the next meeting would be a date. He didn't ask me out out of nowhere or hit on me, we were just getting to know new people and eventually we started flirted somewhere along the line.

  • I think the bigger issue here is that you are obviously uncomfortable with the idea of approaching people in public and your parents are treating this as irrelevant and something you are supposed to just force yourself to do it anyway despite feeling like the situation is wrong and threatening. You shouldn't need to justify not wanting to do that by appealing to some kind of cultural authority about what is acceptable to society.

    Personally even as a man it normally freaks me out when strangers approach me in public. It just feels like a very unusual, unexpected and potentially unsafe kind of circumstance, almost never something positive, there's no way I would trust such a person, so I'm not going to do that to others because it's like I would be inflicting that on both of us simultaneously, and that would of course come through in any interaction I attempted. How could I expect them to be receptive to that when I would never be myself? People may argue, that's the wrong way to feel and so it doesn't matter, replace that attitude with a better one, as if they themselves could easily substitute a totally different way of being for how they are.

    If you need an invitation in order to feel safe in a social situation, I would say it is ok to demand that people respect that and not mock you for it.

  • Some people enjoy casual chat with random people, and some people find it annoying. There's no right or wrong answer. It's definitely not the only way to meet romantic partners, though, especially these days.

  • Personally I think everyone is wrong here, but none of it in a mean or jerky way, just in perspective .

    For your parents, it's definitely a different vibe now, we need to be more socially conscious about walking up to a woman, we should understand that that is inherently a dangerous place for a woman and she is likely on her guard.

    That being said, you shouldn't be afraid to speak to women either, that is likely just as bad. Women are just people, they have like and dislikes, and you should talk to them the same way you would anyone.

    So, I guess what I'm saying is that the days of pickup lines and sauntering over are gone. But there's absolutely nothing wrong striking up a conversation either, and in fact I encourage it. Notice things, maybe they're wearing a band T-shirt of a band you like, maybe they have a cool sticker on their phone or laptop, show interest. Don't be afraid of them.

  • Your instincts are probably well placed. Obviously different people will have different preferences and reactions in this regard, but you're better off getting to know people in a friendly manner than just for the sake of finding a partner. Learning how to strike up conversations with strangers and leave them wanting for more is useful, but that's about all I'd say your parents are right about.

  • I'm like a dozen years older than you, and still have this conversation with my parents about jobs. They want me to cold call people and stalk them and stuff. Really wild stuff.

    Your parents are wrong in basically every way. Except, yeah, you should be capable of cold approaching anybody. Not to sexually harass them, but for normal things like, "excuse me have you seen a grey glasses case around here?"

    Your parents are not out of touch entirely, as this is a culture thing. Largely a generational one, but still, an existing culture. I personally do not believe it good, but I'm also somewhat like you, except 3,000% queer, poly, and engaged. Sometimes I wish guys would just show up and shoot their shots. Be respectful and accept defeat, but still shoot them. Years ago (when I was about 25), I used to work sort of near a bar and this random dude from a bar somehow made his way to me, working, which was, again, fairly far away by foot. And he REALLY wanted to take me home, putting on all the charm and offers. Which was flattering and all, but I wasn't interested and was forced to steadily increase my level of rejections, plus I was still working. My really cool boss apparently overhead and saw a bit of it, and after the guy finally left (honestly like 30 minutes of him trying), we talked a bit about it and had a good laugh. The guy really just couldn't take a hint. Luckily though, he was a little guy and where I worked was very open and very well lit and so there was no threat.

    I think that there's a time and place for everything. That you need to be comfortable in being yourself, and have your own drive and reasons for the things you do. Your parents ARE trying to help you, but often exacerbate their kids by pushing too hard or not putting ANY effort to learn or meet their kids even halfway.

    And then you have to take into account that, yeah, people really ARE all different. I know girls who wouldn't want to be cold approached at all, for any reason. I know guys that way, too.

    But I also know people that wish they'd be swept off their feet by a price charming or hulk or something. Honestly, I'm kinda that way, but with the duality that as much as I fantasize the forceful, having it be by somebody I don't accept is terrifying and horrifying. And that's not on any one specific thing - people are weird and have all their own unique, weird, internal, intuitive flags and needs. Be it a political alignment, a philosophy, an interest, an appreciation, an open mind, wanderlust, a sexual dynamic, a certain look, a certain feature, a familiarity, an unfamiliarity, for them to be monog or poly, a smell, certain kinds of armpits, tabs vs spaces, etc, whatever.

    We are all different, is my point.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And you, as it seems, are not a seeker type. So, you should focus on what you want in a partner and who you are and want to be. You can listen to your parents a little, but realize that, they, too, besides from being your parents, are just some random ass people with some opinions they've formed by their own unique vision, through their own unique bodies and personalities - what works/worked for them may ONLY work for them, and that's fine. It doesn't make it better or worse than what works for you. I say, try it, at least once, and be prepared to apologize, and then learn from it. You're only young once.

    The key is to be respectful.

    Also, have you tried... 🫴 femboys? ;)

  • When one reads the room (or the… sidewalk? the coffee shop?), is clever, and well groomed, and all that…

    It’s absolutely possible to speak to strangers in public regardless of whether they’re male or female or whatever. Furthermore, sometimes the immediate response is a positive one instead of a polite but obviously disinterested one.

    But oh my GOODNESS do we have to be careful not to be an undue burden on others! (Note some scenarios can’t be helped—people who are DEATHLY afraid of ANYONE talking to them ever are in a bad spot, sorry to those folks, but you may have to ignore a polite sentence from me before I apologize/quickly move on.)

    I don’t have good cold approach tips for random places in public, but in a nightclub, can be natural to follow this flow:

    • comment on venue
    • comment on artist
    • comment on the person (the person herself)

    Maybe it’s adaptable outside the clurb too.

    Do know it definitely helps out there if she has a dog. Only speaking to people when there’s a genuinely natural conversation starter, like a cute dog, is probably pretty safe. Maybe “Whoh did you get that hat from <boutique down the street?>” when you’re actually curious. Curiosity shines through, as does your lack of need for a specific outcome, and can lead to good engagement from someone you’ve made comfortable and perhaps who’s chuffed to have had their fancy accessory complimented. (‘Oh actually my friend made it!’ = nice)

    And maybe you’re already walking away as you’re talking, just making it so obvious how little a threat you are, how unlikely you are to be aggressive.

    We’re allowed to “be excellent to each other” and we’re allowed to get rejected. Nothing like a good rejection, LOVE knowing I tried. Finally hey, some of earth’s 8 billion inhabitants were married in modern times solely thanks to the guy reasonably approaching a stranger, and none of us could tell his wife she was wrong not to reject him (or that he was a jerk for saying hi).

    YOU GOT THIS!

    Kindly,

    brb

  • Context matters a lot, which means you need to put yourself out there in the right context to meet someone. Examples: trivia night at the local bar, or a book club, or a local live music show. Most women aren't gonna be interested if you approach them while they're just living their lives grocery shopping or at the gym or something - that's not a social context. (Unless you're regulars at the gym and run into each other and chitchat all the time, but I'm assuming you're not in that kind of situation.)

    Once you're in the right context, and you see a woman you're interested in, start by very casually talking to her, and keep an eye out for signs of interest (e.g., turning in their seat toward you which indicates they're giving the conversation real attention, or moving the conversation forward by making jokes or asking follow-up questions) or disinterest (e.g., one word answers with no follow-up engagement, turning their body away from you, mentioning a boyfriend). If you see signs of disinterest, just stop and let her be. But if you see signs of interest, continue the conversation. Don't be too needy, don't come on too strong, let the conversation breathe. And for godsake don't buy her drinks, it's cheesy and puts too much pressure on a new situation. Especially don't buy her a drink without even asking her first, it's pushy and I can't speak for all women, but I fucking hate that. Ask her about herself, for example her interests. Try to get a gauge on whether you're attracted to her on more than a physical level. If you have nothing in common, or you think she's boring or annoying, there's no sense in moving forward. But if there seems to be commonality and interest, keep the conversation going! If one of you is leaving, tell her you're glad you ran into her that night and ask if you can give her your number (or email address or social media, whatever young people do, I'm middle-aged so I don't know). But the important thing is that you're offering her something rather than asking her for something. This means she can say no, or if she says yes, she still has the choice on whether or not to follow up with you. It puts the control in her hands which can make her feel more safe.

    Good luck, I hear it's rough out there for folks your age.

  • I'm with your parents on this one. It's not hard to talk to someone without harassing them. Obviously you have to be mindful of the context of the situation.

    • You're at a party and attempt to strike up a friendly conversation with someone? Totally fine
    • You see an attractive stranger walking on the street and you stop them to ask them out? Not ok

    Obviously there are loads of gray areas in between, but you can't just start with the premise that talking to a woman is harassment.

    • I love that this is exactly what he said, but you say that you are with his parents on this.

      • Ah I shouldn't have skimmed this while on a work call. I saw:

        "Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don't have an easy way out."

        and thought that OP was saying they were uncomfortable talking to women period.

  • You are wrong. Yeah times have changed, but not so much that you can't just fucking talk to someone. Say hi, strike up a conversation, whatever, and trust that anyone who doesn't want to talk will say so. The important thing when that happens is to listen to them and leave them alone.

  • I'll make idle conversation with anyone. Some people are down some aren't. I'm rarely trying for a date or romance. I just see where the conversation goes, sometimes to a date or romance.

  • You are both right and you’re both wrong.

    I’m right in the middle of yours and your parents age. The dating scene is complete shit today compared to when your parents were in it. I don’t believe they’re likely recognizing how different shit is today vs 30-40 years ago.

    I feel like the viewpoint you’re coming from is calculated, safe and fairly accurate for the experiences you’ve likely had in your teen years and early 20’s. More often than not, sticking with what you’ve been doing is going to be considered the more socially graceful, generally appropriate baseline behavior in today’s dating world.

    If you were to take the opposite approach, and approach women in places that you’ve previously considered socially unacceptable, there’s a good chance you’d have some success and a good chance you’d deal with some awkward rejections too.

    If I were you, I’d try putting myself outside of my comfort zone a couple of times, maybe a city two hours away from where you live. If you’re into anime or comics, go to a con and approach women you’d be uncomfortable approaching otherwise. If you’re into reading at all, go to a bookstore and do this. Everyone needs to eat, supposedly the grocery store is fair game.

    Do some social experimenting. Safer to figure out things a bit away from home though if you’re nervous.

  • Youre right that there are social rules saying you shouldn't. But when you're confident and have social skills you can break the rules.

    If you trust yourself to have the social intelligence to pickup on signs of disinterest or irritation then go for it. Start with a casual chat and have 0 expectations. You'll feel if its right to ask for their number.

    If you know you dont have good social skills then just play it safe and find some mixed groups and just try make friends with as many people as possible.

  • If you don't try you won't get, I'm pretty direct but I have friends who are way way worse than I am.

  • I have a different problem - I sometimes perceive extremely attractive women as "usual", until my head is too dizzy with them, and I also sometimes perceive them being kind as flirt, and flirt as being more serious, and being more serious as being kind, and all the combinations, and get confused when they approach me, and in general this leads to trying to start\see possible relationships being a point of pain. I don't want to treat another human being as a piece of nice meat in any fundamental regard. At the same time when a beautiful woman does certain things with her facial muscles, willpower and feel of reality just leave the chat. At the same time she might be a very good person and do that as part of a sincere emotion, so just discarding moments where feel of reality leaves the chat would discard most of women who do that. And the rest would be discarded by fear of not delivering on expectations (not of being nice and smart, that I can accept mostly not being, but of being barely reliable and not again falling into depression or stagnating in personal development or emotional fakery or something like that).

    OK, yes, this thread is not for autistic people.

    Your parents might be right, you are paying too much attention to the rules. The rules are like a noise canceling filter, you shouldn't apply them for moments important to you. If you really like someone, break the rules, then lick your wounds if she says that was ugly ; she most likely won't. By breaking the rules I don't mean doing anything , just what's not fully appropriate, but not evil. Like - if you lost your phone and need to call someone urgently, how appropriate would it be to approach the first person you see? But is that justified? Relationships are kinda important and rare enough.

  • i'm not particular what you would call a normal guy and i have a lot of edgy views, but my take on this is simply that the main and by far number one reason why you're not supposed to talk to women nowadays is because social media has instilled an outright fear of men in women.

    you see, women are naturally very intelligent and pick up signals, even small ones, fast. if they see a hundred social media posts a day, and even one of them says something like "men are bad, keep away from them", they will take the warning very seriously, even though there might be not much of a good reasoning behind it. maybe whoever wrote that social media post was only a crazy christian and was saying it because she was worried about staying "pure". there are unfortunately christian people out there who think that "morale" and stuff like "staying pure [from men flirting with women]" are more important than understanding the social needs of the people. such is religion. over the internet it spreads like crazy. that's why the women are all afraid of men. to which i respond with this meme:

    (which means as much as: the fear is artificial and instilled; look at the actual predators. it is the rich)

    My advice for you is: stay careful, as there are crazy "feminists" out there, who are only looking for a "catch". For example, they want to test their "critique" on someone, and try to hurt you simply because they're looking for a fight. but also, you must understand that only your heart will carry you forward, so you must listen to it. it is a difficult path to walk, but maybe you can try it.

  • It’s ok to talk to a woman. But judging by your wall of text… maybe it’s not ok for you specifically to talk to a woman.

168 comments