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No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
meatwads_tooth @sh.itjust.works

What's the point in getting married?

If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren't those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?

I'm generally curious why people get married beyond the "because I love them" when it costs so much money.

128 comments

  • Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.

    What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.

    And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.

    • Glad you mentioned 'next of kin.' This is the important answer. If you're married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.

      Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There's no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you're at all related to this person. You're just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady's bedside. You can't make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they're estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!

      (Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)

      You can't even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren't awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can't let you see them, can't tell you anything.

      This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it's a legal way to indicate that you're the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)

  • People have already pointed out the legal and financial aspects. But I also want to address the philosophical aspect of your question, which I think you had in mind. And I think the answer I would give you is this one:

    Marriage has the meaning that you assign to it.

    I strongly believe that if we got rid of any legal and financial benefits of marriage, even if we made it explicitly illegal, there would still be a bunch (or even a lot) of people who would get married.

    I would compare it to a house fire. If my house was burning (and there were no living beings in it) and I could save 5 things, what would I save? What would you save? I would take, for example, my favorite soft toy from when I was a kid, and my old box filled with diaries. Is this worth any money? No. Does it have any value? To me, it does. To you, it doesn't. Maybe you are a very rational person that isn't attached to anything (or to nothing material) and you would indeed make the smartest choices, saving your passport and documents and money. Maybe you would save a small gift that someone important has given you. Maybe you would save the first guitar you ever bought. You save whatever has value and meaning to you. And these things have solely the meaning and value that you have attached to it.

    Likewise, people have different value and meaning attached to marriage. If you look at it from a rational, logical side - it has its legal and financial perks and benefits and if they weren't there, getting married would make no sense. But things don't have to make sense. The meaning we assign to rituals, things, concepts, aren't necessarily rational. They are, however, deeply personal.

    So, as a side note, please beware of ridiculing people for their views on marriage or weddings, just like you wouldn't want to ridicule or belittle someone for other things that mean a lot to them. Always sharing the last piece of bread. Always giving a coin to a homeless person. Having a breakfast for 30 minutes every morning. A good night kiss on the nose from their partner. Drawing a dick in the first snow of the winter. Some things mean a lot to people even if they do not rationally make sense.

    In the case of marriage, of course, some of the meaning comes from culture, history, and tradition. Marriage might have had different purposes than it has now, and surely the origins weren't that romantic. (Not saying, however, that marriage has to be romantic.) But it is there. It is important to some people simply because they have, at some point in their life, decided it is important for some reasons, rational or irrational, social, cultural, and hopefully personal too. To them, it makes sense, it has meaning, it has value. And whatever marriage or a wedding ceremony mean - you decide.

    So the question you should be asking is not whether or not you should get married, it is what marriage means to you. Does it have any benefit or value in your eyes? Are the legal benefits enough for you to get married? What is your stance on divorce? Do you feel like you would get "closer together" with your partner? Would you feel it would make things harder to separate? There are a ton on questions like these that you can ask yourself, I hope you get the jist. There are not right or wrong answers. The only thing that is important is that the meaning you assign to marriage is (about) the same as the meaning your partner assigns to marriage. You can both not care about a spiritual meaning, but just get married for the benefits. You can both be a type of "whatever happens, we don't get divorced, til death do us part". You can be "we'll keep reevaluating whether we still belong together". You can also be "we get married because we have children and this is practical". Or "we get married because I am hot and you are rich and when one of us loses their asset we split". Or "we just want a fancy huge ass party to show our love in this very moment and celebrate it with our friends and whatever comes afterwards is secondary". It doesn't matter what your view is, it matters that you guys agree.

  • when it costs so much money.

    What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.

  • If you're looking for a rational argument for the big party or the religious ceremony or anything like that -- You won't find it. These things are meant to play to the emotional, and this isn't a flaw, it's the whole point. People really need to embrace that we are, in fact, very emotional creatures, and that this is not a bad thing, and that yes, a lot of the things we do are done just for the emotional satisfaction of it. Because it's fun, because it will make you or someone you care about happy.

    If neither you nor your partner give two shits about big parties or ceremonies, then neither of you needs to bother. If said partner does want this and you don't, then y'know, maybe have a good chat about that and find a compromise. That's how partnerships work. (Me personally I'd love to organise my own wedding and go all quirky with it, but I can live without it)

    Being legally married is a separate thing, and is inexpensive in most countries (just a small fee so the bureaucrats can process the bureaucracy), and at least in my country is often done weeks if not months in advance of the big party and/or religious ceremony, with the couple already being legally married while they organise their wedding stuff. To be legally married is to have you and your partner recognised by The State (tm) as being a family unit. This has uses for a few situations in life.

  • It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).

    In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It's both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I'm not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).

    That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called "Tenants in Common" because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can't sell half a house so that protects you. They're aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim "deliberate deprivation" and revert you back to joint owners.

    That's just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That's really helpful! :)

  • A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.

    Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.

    All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don't think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.

    So it's possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it'll work out.

    Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It's a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don't feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.

  • Some rights can be similar, but you'll always have to declare the other person as your legal whatever. Marriage says to the state that this person is my default for pretty much everything--power of attorney, medical stuff, property ownership, etc. So if I get in an accident and fall unconscious, my wife doesn't have to fight the hospital staff to see me.

    Depending on your country, there are other bonds that have the same legal binding as marriage.

    In addition, if we're honest, there are some "soft" benefits as well. My wife changed her name when we got married, and having the same last name (and our kids having the same last name) avoids a lot of complexity with things like traveling (especially because our daughter is a different skin color than the rest of us). Marriage didn't explicitly grant us that privilege, but there are a lot of societal norms that come with it that have proven beneficial.

    I'm not trying to claim that any of this is how it should be necessarily, but if you're asking about practical reasons why, those are some of them. If you want the practical benefits without the cost, it's (relatively) cheap to go to the courthouse or Vegas. Hell, you can get a friend to perform the ceremony for free, all you pay is for the marriage license. But if you're otherwise not interested in marriage and those benefits don't appeal (or whatever other reason), just stay dating.

  • It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Mine was maybe 2 thousand and actually broke even thanks to very generous cash gifts, but even without that it would have been worth it to get all our friends and family under one roof to publicly profess our love.

    If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

    Yeah. In the same way that any other shared experience or token does, but this is a very public one that is built up by our cultures and we can imbue with special meaning.

    It's not for everyone, and it can be problematic, but I'm happy I got married and got the magic ring and all that.

    1. Kids. Being married before you have kids is huge in some states and important in many. In my state unmarried father's have no rights to children even if they sign the birth certificate. Sure you can adopt, but that's far more expensive than a marriage certificate.
    2. Protection in the case of breakup or divorce. You have rights to shared property in a divorce, you have no rights to anything you didn't buy or put in your name otherwise. You can sort of solve this with making a partnership and putting all assets into it, but it's not quite the same and far more complicated. Also if you aren't the breadwinner, there isn't really a way to ensure spousal support without a marriage.
    3. Legal protections. You can't be compelled to testify against a spouse. While you can do things like medical power of attorney, you don't get it by default like marriage, which means you either need that document on hand at all times or in an emergency situation you could be prevented access or decision making authority until you provide documentation. There's also social security, you can draw on a spouse, but there isn't an equivalent, same for pensions that offer survivor benefits.
    4. Insurance benefits from employers generally require you to be married.

  • Aight, you seem to want to ignore the legal benefits, so I won't mention that beyond saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to get married than to figure out all the paperwork needed to duplicate it, and not even have the exact same outcomes, just the majority. The tax thing, for example, you can't file jointly if you aren't married, no matter what else you set up (edit: in places where things like common law marriage aren't recognized)

    The biggest thing is the experience, imo. The memory.

    Now, me and my wife went to the JoP, with our kid and required witnesses (my best friend and his husband).

    No fancy reception, no major party, just went home and said to my dad "we're back, no problems." He said congratulations, and went back to watching TV.

    Total spent was about a hundred bucks, including gas. And the memories of it are wonderful, we cherish it all, and we're happy as hell we didn't do anything else.

    Wedding ceremonies, however, are expensive once you go beyond that bare minimum. That's a cultural/sociological thing where the needs of the individual and the culture mesh into not only believing it necessary, but beneficial.

    And, for the people that want it, it is beneficial. Ceremonies, rites, rituals, they serve a purpose beyond the legal or official status that comes with them. Weddings are as much about community as they are the couple. It's the union being both recognized and celebrated at the same time, even when it's a secular ceremony rather than religious.

    Don't get me wrong, the money spent on empty bullshit surrounding weddings is absurd. But the actual wedding, where the community stands around the couple is incredibly powerful in terms of validation, even when it's the license that really matters legally. You can have ceremonies without the license; I performed several of them back before same sex marriage became legal. Those events were important, and doubly so because they had no legal standing.

    I think that's what you're missing, that there's a massive difference between two people shacking up and marriage. When the people involved swear an oath, and/or exchange symbols of union it means something, even if there's no witnesses, not even someone to perform a ceremony. But as you move into witnesses and an officiant, it feels different because it is a public commitment. You can still divorce or whatever, but it happened, and you can never deny that. That moment, the vows, they exist in a way they don't if you swear only to each other.

    Yeah, two people can be just as committed, and honor their commitment perfectly without anything else. But it feels different.

    Now, again, I'd argue that once you start shelling out for crazy dresses and cake and niche receptions, you hit diminishing returns very quick. That's to satisfy other things, not the union itself. It may well make people happy, but it doesn't add anything to the underlying point of there being a ceremony in the first place. That of saying to the world "where once there were two, now there are one".

    Not that anyone has to share the valuation, but it's what underlies the whole thing, and it has value

  • It's a shorthand for all those other legal arrangements, in a pragmatic sense. You can build the same thing with documents that confer the different legal relationships, or you can use the pre-packaged bundle. A lot of the one-off arrangements require a lawyer and filling fees for each document, where the bundle can be done for a $25 or so fee, and a judge or the clerk who collected the fee, depending on your jurisdiction.

    There are also social and relationship perks to a public declaration of commitment. It doesn't change anything, but a public declaration can make things explicit on all accounts.
    Rings are just a social shorthand to communicate that to others passively

    They also don't actually need to be expensive. They became expensive because people are usually willing to shell out a little more for a special occasion, and a lot of people wedged themselves in and argued that without them it wasn't really special. If you can't put a price on love, then how can $10k be too much?

    If you've decided to make a public commitment, a little party to celebrate is legitimately fun. You just need to separate what you need for the party to be fun and feeling like the scale of the party is a testament to your love or sincerity.

    When I got married the ceremony was five minutes and done by a friend of ours, we had our friends and the closer circle of relatives as guests and we didn't need to save up for things because we only got what would make us happy for our party. Our rings were cheaper than most because we talked to a jewler and had them make something according to our designs, and neither of us like diamonds. (Mine is a metal reinforced piece of a beautiful rock we found while rock hunting at a favorite camping spot, and hers is her favorite color, laid out well to avoid snagging on clothing.)

  • I married my partner, after being with them for over a decade, and a few years of living together full-time. It was mostly for admin reasons (we just bought our home, and being married made things easier if one of us died). If it wasn't for that I don't think we would have bothered. We know we love each other, and had decided a few years before that if we'd get married if we ever needed to, so it wasn't like we ever 'proposed'. Just a tiny ceremony with two friends as witness, and we went out to a restaurant for lunch afterwards. I don't think it cost us anything beyond lunch? Maybe a tiny admin fee?

    But... I'm so happy we did! It's weird! I never really cared, and rationally, I still think it hasn't changed anything. But somehow it feels... really nice? I still regularly think (and tell them) "I'm so glad I married you". I'm sure there are lots of other things that you can do to symbolise your relationship or commitment. If I got a tattoo inspired by my partner I'd probably have the same feeling of looking at it and thinking of them that I do when I play with my wedding ring (2€ piece of silly junk from aliexpress. And we each bought a bunch of spares so that when we inevitably lose them it's not a problem). But actually a marriage is one of the simplest and cheaper ways (if you don't choose or feel pressured into turning it into a stupid moneysink).

    Tldr: didn't care about marriage, got married for tax, and weirdly found it deeply satisfying in a completely unexpected way.

  • Two reasons: Practical considerations (shared assets, certain legal protections, I've seen people get married for an easier go re: immigration in some cases, etc. Basically check your local laws); and ritualistic.

    I find people often discount the importance of certain ritual practices in Western secular society, and for a lot of people ritual in general is a whole lot of fluff and nonsense. But having a ceremony to recognize a formal joining of two people, and by extension their families (to varying degrees), with the at least ostensible intent that you will live and die in partnership with that person, is a powerful thing. It's a common ritual among multiple societies, with lots of variation and differences in exactly what it signifies, but the ubiquity speaks to that power IMO.

    Don't get me wrong - I think divorce is a good thing for when the partnership truly does not and cannot work, and people can live happily in lifelong unions without marriage - but for some folks, taking that vow in the eyes of your friends and family (and whatever deity concept you may have, if that's your kink) is a very important and serious thing. Something changes, to some degree, when you take that oath.

    It doesn't have to be expensive - that it often is, IMO, is a function of capitalism infecting a beautiful thing more than anything else. You can have a wedding in someone's backyard officiated by someone who paid $25 online for a certificate, with a small number of close friends and a potluck BBQ afterwards, and it would be just as valid and meaningful as a wedding that cost 100k (shit, IME the smaller one is actually more meaningful in a lot of cases). It's the intent, ritual, and meaning participating parties place on it that's important.

  • You pay less taxes, its easier to get a loan (if you both have good credit), you automatically have all the rights to know about their health in an emergency situation, whereas a girlfriend/boyfriend needs to go through extra steps, some of which are impossible in an emergency. Some people also view marriage as a very religious thing and so that part of it is a big deal to them.

  • Depending on the country it can make e a significant difference in finances, because taxes, inheritance laws, credit scores, etc.

    Finances aside, yes, for some people the ceremony is a ritual that carries heavy meaning and the ring and a ceremony is a way to strengthen the relationship. Is a ritual that is culturally significant and very significant for some. Everyone is different so just because for you and me it is irrelevant that's not the case for thousands of others.

    It's like swearing an oath of sorts. You may ask yourself, why do they waste time in court making people say they won't lie and why some need to do it with a bible? People still lie after all. Or what difference does it make when people hook pinkies over a promise? It's just a promise like any other and it can be broken. But people still do these things, and they get married too.

  • It doesn't have to cost a lot to officiate a marriage if you have 2 witnesses and use the registry office.

  • My partner and I wanted it for legal reasons, especially since I'm disabled so he can make medical decisions etc.

    We can either "register as partners' or get married. Both cost the same. Marriage had a wedding party. Costs a lil bit more, but brought together all of our friends and had a beautiful day. So why choose boring?

  • Being married doesn't need to cost anything. You could not organizing any kind of célébration. You could stop at a dinner with the guests you can host at home. Or do a big party on a yacht with firework. It doesn't matter.

    Getting married is officializing to society that the person you love is your family. Building a link separed from love that could fade and vary with time.

    This link make also easier to share advantage that is usually reserve to one. Patrimoine, possession, inheritance, joined whatever. It give you the right to make décision in the name of your SO in hard times. If they had an accident, if they are missing or having a dire disease.

    Many people fear prénuptial contract but it is the best way to build a marriage in a way to have all the advantage without the dependance. And realising that a relationship might end and that each should be fearly treated without having to fight for it doesn't equated douting a relationship. If you don't fear séparation, you can sign anything. Right ?

  • Of course there are the legal benefits people have mentioned, but I think a lot of it is that humans love our symbolism and ceremonious tradition. Sure, the ring and ceremony aren't what make your bond, but it is symbolically immortalized through them.

    Weddings don't have to be incredibly expensive. My wife doesn't like diamonds, so I proposed to her with a piece of her birth stone. We had our wedding in a state park, we were able to reserve a large section of it for sub $100. We went with simple silver wedding bands from a local jeweler. The biggest cost was food and drink for 70 people. Even though ours was comparatively cheap for a wedding, you could do it way cheaper. Some couples choose to elope, some have a smaller ceremony with only their closest family. It doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg to be a beautiful day.

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