Trump administration orders half of national forests open for logging
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Yes, this means a ton of carbon ends up in the atmosphere instead of in the trees. The right move would be thinning and prescribed burns, but this administration isn't going to do that.
These are our forests. They belong to the US people. They're being stolen from us. For private profit of a few.
It's an American tradition.
You stole that whole country
I mean, as the other guy pointed out, you as a people stole the fucking lot and literally massacred thousands upon thousands of people to do it.
Shoe's on the other foot now, eh?
Ah yes, because native Americans celebrate the raping of their lands as long as the people who took it from them hundreds of years ago descendants (unlikely, given how many generations are immigrants) are also having their lands raped too.
Get the fuck out here with this brain-rot level argument. 🤦
Go stir the pot somewhere else.
Fuck. This kind of shit is why I feel the need for revenge on these people. They're slashing forests and impoverishing the population. It's not enough for them to lose an election. they need to pay
I want my pound of fucking flesh.
Uhm, why can he just decide this? Not part of his expertise or departement.
Trump doesn't like that the US buys lumber from Canada. He's going to announce 34% tariffs on lumber from Canada in the next few days.
That our government has been reacting to his shit rather than controlling it is infuriating.
Some national parks might be protected by legislation, such as the Yosemite Act of 1864, but massive amounts of land were protected by the executive branch such as Teddy Roosevelt protecting 150 Million Acres of forest and Joseph Biden protecting 674 Million Acres.
Then you also have Treaties with native americans which can be considered law if Republicans actually acknowledged them as such (they don't).
America is a dumpster fire lol, they have all these "checks and balances" but then one guy can just make all the trade policy and land use decisions by decree. What even is the point of their congress
The problem is that Congress is controlled by people who are Trump sycophants — the Republican Party kicked out everybody who wasn't.
Problem is that both houses majorities support the lunatic, right now they've more or less given him a blank check to operate.
Historically, the two party system has meant that Congress either votes with the presidents wishes or against when it comes to legislation, but Congress doesn't directly approve/disprove of executive orders. To oppose executive orders, Congress needs to pass laws that override the orders. That wont happen unless the majority becomes convinced they'll lose elections if they keep supporting trump.
It'll be up to the Judicial Branch to directly rule for/against this order. But the judicial branch only truly has power so long as the executive complies. We're close to hitting the test of that power balance on some of his earlier orders.
Fun fact: the law enforcement of the Judicial Branch is technically an agency under the Executive Branch. Not a problem if people are largely operating in good faith with the law, or at least fear repurcussions if they don't comply... But since Trump doesn't fear repurcussion, this fun fact may be the oversight that breaks the consitution.
All governments at some level run on the honor system. When the whole government colludes to not honor the system, you get this.
Checks and balances all died with citizens united….only one left is the second amendment
The 2nd amendment is part of the Bill or rights which he already trampled multiple times. There is no right to bear arms anymore, they just haven't had a reason to round anyone who uses them up yet.
There isn't much purpose for congress anymore. Biden was doing the same thing. I think we should just do away with presidents, only have the House and the Senate. If nothing else, stop allowing the presidents to use executive orders. They really aren't legal the way they are used.
We get 30% of our lumber from Canada. This is the inevitable consequence of shutting our borders to trade via tariffs - if these policies stick around for four years, sure, we may bring some manufacturing home at great immediate cost, but we'll also be bringing home the environmental burdens of manufacturing (the negative externalities) which we've been pushing onto other countries and ignoring for decades. In the meantime, other countries have started to learn how to handle those externalities, like China's big push for solar power. In America, we've got an idiot who is rolling back worker safety, health and environmental protections, the list goes on. So even if these tariffs worked, we're going to be living in a less healthy place, all in the name of jobs...
This has nothing to do with the tariffs; even if those weren't happening Trump would be selling the trees off to his cronies anyway. It's a blatantly corrupt kleptocracy.
The trees can't be harmed if the lorax is armed. You touch his trees, he aims for your knees.
Go go go, Tonya Harding!
Trump has two legs. Just sayin
The Black Knight always triumphs!
It's just a flesh wound!
So just cut one off. Gotcha
Trump is speedrunning to aim for the lowest biodiversity index in North America.
Maybe if we stop ridiculously subisidising corn everywhere, some that gets thrown away because we have way too much, we could replace a couple dozen sq km of corn fields with more sustainable agroforestry, and thereby massively increase our logging output, instead of yk, cutting down the last wildlife sanctuaries? Not holding my breath tho.
i comfort myself with the knowledge that most worlds are totally dead
zero wildlife is the normal state of things
extinction is only sad to the survivors, and soon enough there will be none left to mourn
The absolute level of stupidity of this is ridiculous. Lumber mills are not designed for old growth trees in the modern era, so all these trees will not even become lumber. Logging has become very sustainable in recent decades. They farm trees and mill them when they reach the size that the machinery at the mills is optimized for. If we just cut down all the forests, the mills can't even process the logs even though it's better lumber. In reality, they'd just send the old growth logs to be ground for pulp which is a total waste. This video does a good job explaining it.
Cutting down old growth Forrest take 50 years to repair the area after its stopped. What a mess.
Way longer than that. What grows back is not old growth
Yep, can't fix it in our lifetime
I thought i watch a video talking about 50 to 100 but its random YouTube guy soo you could be right and could very dependent on environment. Desertfication is hard to fix.
One of the many reasons I'm pissed at his voters every single day.
More like 150-300 if possible at all.
Now that's waaaaay worst.
My body is not ready for the amount of alcohol and dancing I am going to force myself to take part in on the day this motherfucker dies and goes to hell.
Literally, the most destructive and evil human on the planet since Hitler. I can't wait until the worms get him. I kind of feel bad for them, but I guess it's part of the job.
That scene in the matrix 2
Finally, a good move by Trump. Those trees are taking up incredible amounts of water. This is water that could be used for more productive things, like being mixed with Kool-aid powder on a hot day. Moreover, the trees emit large amounts of oxygen, a dangerous corrosive gas. Don't listen to liberals -- tree hugging is a dangerous activity that can lead to abrasions from all the bark.
If there's anything I learned from Dr. Seuss' "The Lorax", logging can lead to impressive industrial and commercial activity and has no downsides.
It's insane that I'm 99% sure this is sarcasm, but that 1% has a voice telling me I can't discount Maga being that stupid. This is the age we live in, incredible stupidity.
Fucking murder this fuck
I got a mod deletion the last time I said anything like this. Good luck and I fucking agree.
Fortunately this community is on slrpnk.net which might not have the same kinds of trigger happy mods as .world?
You've got to be careful how you word it lest the gestapo come for you. I will derive pleasure from reading his obituary though.
I will also say that 18 U.S. Code § 2381 says that he should be well, you know. Or fined and put in jail for five years but that's not as fun.
Holy shit, America, you are so fucked at this point.
It only the damage was contained within the USA's borders.
That is just... Insane. Incredibly sad.
Just fyi, I'm pointing out Trump's similarities to an evil villain. I'm not using this to agree. I'm very much against this, having grown up in the woods (practically raised by my local forest, as my mother was an awful drunk and single parent) and I spent most of my youth walking through the peace and quiet of the trees.
I grew up with my mother seeing nothing but my father in me, and was abused for it. Those trees gave me the shelter I needed and I would have been 100x more a mess if I didn't have them. So no. Don't take my fucking trees en masse.
Then i guess it's time to start living up to the old namesake.
What is it?
George Washington Hayduke is one of the four main characters in The Monkeywrench Gang written by Edward Abbey. They're a group of anarchists that destroy things like earth movers to prevent logging or drilling, and just generally fuck with private companies profiting off of public lands.
Basically, they're eco-terrorists.
I predict that any company that participates in destroying the parks will end up even worse off then Tesla. I've been a hiker my whole life and I've met a lot of retired military on the trail.
One would hope, though I have my doubts due to the wood not being a consumer product. People spend little time researching the next president, I would be surprised if enough people track wood sources to the point of being able to accurately boycott
So I just want to chime in here as an outsider. From what I searched, national forests are different from national parks in that, extraction of natural resources from national forests is permitted for commercial and personal use.
Trump's order cites wildfire, insect and disease outbreak as the reason for this change (Biden also sought more logging to combat fire but apparently timber sales did not change much during his tenure). While I agree that forest management is important, Trump had also put tariffs on Canadian lumber and cut down jobs for national park workers. It's not hard to question if there are other motivations other than wildfire prevention in this context.
Here is a good blog post on the nationalforest.org website. Posted in 2013 (according to archive.org).
real estate development probably, if you think about whats going on in gaza, he wants to do the same there, build properties on untainted lands.
Save a forest, shoot a ...
Wait, where's the line where what I say gets me banned again?
In my experience, that line was mostly left over on Reddit.
Vigilante groups tracking and disabling logging equipment?
Fun fact: it doesn't take very much gasoline in a diesel engine to wreck the engine fast. Diesel fuel lubricates the cylinders, while gasoline will strip lubrication off. Rebuilding a diesel engine that's seized because there was no lubrication in the cylinders is a very expensive process. Diesel engines also rely on the compression of the air and fuel to ignite at the correct time, so a low-octane gasoline that was less resistant to pre-ignition in the compression cycle would cause severe engine knock that would also trash the engine.
So the moral of the story is, be very careful that you never put low-octane gasoline in you diesel engine, because you might end up needing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to replace the engine.
Those are our national Forests, they don't belong to fascist billionaires like Trump and Musk! Resist, fight back, and let's tell these Nazis they can't strip our environment, government, healthcare and democracy to give tax breaks to rich people...
Gee, why wouldn't I want to cede my country to American management and become the 51st state? You guys are knocking it out of the park, no pun intended.
Already bad enough here in Ontario with Doug "I'm a big Republican" Ford's Ministerial Zoning Order addiction, gutting environmental protection agencies, trying to sell off the Greenbelt, using covid recovery bills to get his dirt done, etc.
Any rein we've been able to keep on the timbit would dissolve into nada if we allowed the US govt to run their game here. I can't even conceive of much worse they'd make the tar sands in Alberta. 90% of the fisheries would just be trawlers digging up seabeds. Plus the dizzying amount of toxic waste they're already legally dumping here and in Mexico?
Elbows up.
Drill, drill, drill! Cut, cut, cut! Slash, slash, slash! Burn, burn, burn! You guys carry on I have to go golfing.
Literally Saruman.
Revolt happened.
Saruman died on a spike.
Mirror mirror on the wall, who is Nostradamus about Trump's fall?
- -
✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.
Is there a list of which forests opened for logging?
Probably all of them, start with half then charge more to open the second half.
I can't find one, I'd like to see a map but I don't expect there is one.
Meanwhile we get shamed for not reusing the plastic containers we're forced to purchase with our basic groceries.
May time and tide fuck a pres up the arse
March '23 Trump gave a soundbite for his billionaire bosses about building "Freedom Cities." Clear-cutting national forests, then signing an order that makes the area exempt from regulation? Sounds about right.
If they're coming for all federally governed land, indigenous reservations will be on the menu as well (always are).
A hundred years from now the planet will be in a pretty good shape, forests have been regrown and the seas will have been cleaned up and repopulated with fish, except for the US which is a giant hole. Not from bombs exploding, but from strip-mining the whole place for resources.
this is so fucking removed. it is going to take longer than his term to build fucking logging factories and its going to cost millions of dollars. plus you have to hire these people and drivers. and guess what? since it's "american" it will just cost more for some reason anyways like everything else "American made" does. what an actual joke for the sheep
I agree with everything you said... except the ableist slur. I have worked with special needs people and they can be some of the sweetest, most genuine, hardest-working people you'll meet! Please ditch the outdated term, we need to be better than that...
The USA will resemble Russia, China and Mordor.
Can you just find the article about this story that's not published in a corporate paper instead of posting this link?
It doesn't take long to find a better source
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking
This is my reccomendation to this news. Remember, put the spike atleast 9ft up, use a non-ferrous material so the detectors don't catch em, and wood glue the bark chunk back overtop.
Once they destroy more than one saw on randomly selected trees, the logging company recognizes the forest as non-viable due to high cost sawmill blade replacements.
Note: pretty sure this is a federal crime btw, so do with that information what you will
Check out Burning Rage of a Dying Planet, And other books by Craig Rosebraugh and Leslie James Pickering, like the yearly global dispatches of the ELF to remind yourself what you absolutely should NOT do to disrupt logging, development and corporate greed.
That's really interesting. I doubt a comment like this would be allowed to remain on Reddit, which is a shame because it naturally would reach a lot more people.
Ohhh, I always thought it was to break the saw that was cutting them down, not the mill.
For those who don't want to potentially kill people with flying saw blade pieces, look up the resistance to the Mountain Valley pipeline. It costs a TON to get this heavy equipment into position and build roads to get the felled trees OUT. Even just establishing a bunch of treesits (or supporting those treesits) in the areas where they're building roads or planning to log can be incredibly expensive and disruptive to the planned project - and hurt the profit line, which is all that matters.
Why people link to a paywalled article in the first place boggles my mind. You're not sharing information, you're just advertising the paper for free.
My best guess is they work for the paper. And we should ban them for advertising
I hate this.
Just wondering, what makes a forest a national forest and does this include trees in national parks or are they protected?
Safe to say, nothing's protected from this admin
Assuming the other half is where they plan to install the oil derricks...
🙏🏼✝️🔯☯️🕉️ Gods of the universe that ever existed real or fictional Please hear our prayers and please peacefully take this man home. His destruction is too much for the good people of earth to bear. Please consider taking Putin and Netanyahu too Than You. Amen
God here (taking temporary control of a random human as I don't have a mobile device, or thumbs for that matter): I gave y'all free choice - and I'm not talkin' 'bout the vote. Turn off the telly and go start a revolution! (or join an existing rebellion, if you prefer) All my love, God(s)
I’m agnostic but I had to try.
Vance would arguably be worse.
He doesn’t have the cult backing. I honestly think the cult would fracture
didn't he say it would be like 0.5% of all federal land, or something.
One difference between the fascists and the rest of us is that for us, words have meaning, while for the fascists, they're only a tool for manipulation when spoken to somebody they see as inferior.
guess we protesting to stop logging next
That's bullshit. Protests need to start somewhere and gain momentum. Once they're big enough, they become hard to ignore. Then comes the hard part when those in power start to suppres the protests with force. If the protests continue despite this, they can gain much wider sympathy and can really change something. I have seen this several times with my own eyes, including one time when it meant a revolution.
What do you wish to achieve with this comment?
No president can ever make everyone happy.
Trump does this, and people get mad because he's taking away our trees and ruining our country. Under another president, we instead get trees from another country, and people get mad because we're ruining that country. (has happened in the past)
don't we have enough working forests to satisfy demand for lumber? even if we open some BLM land to logging, do we really need to log literally half of it?
I really don't know. I'm sure we have been importing more than most of us think. I'm guessing it has to do with it not being private property, but already being under government control.