Buy European @feddit.uk index @sh.itjust.works 2d ago

Visa and Mastercard are two american companies

This post is a reminder that Visa and Mastercard are two american companies and that every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons.

This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.

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Yeah! It's best to use the national network, if it exists in your country. Also, daily reminder that the EU is working towards the digital Euro.

This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.

I don't really get this tbh...
- The digital euro looks so promising, even if it's a small thing. Ditching Visa and Mastercard would help reduce intermediates in the payment chain, even if the replacement is the bank itself.
- I don’t really get this tbh…
  
  Plenty of threads on lemmy where people argue cryptos have no real use. Here's one: buying a product in europe without paying taxes to donald trump
  
  Name one place I can spend crypto that isn't a dodgy online market
  
  Oh thanks for clarifying... I don't really see those posts, to be honest.
  
  I do hold some crypto myself (BTC). I think it's good to have some sort of currency outside of FIAT, just in case, but I don't foresee it ever becoming a thing in the EU.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters

When crypto is backed by a regulatory body and isn't just speculative gambling, I might take it more seriously.
- The same regulatory bodies that "regulate" banks atm?
  
  Yes, the ones that ensure my money still exists if a bank goes under. Those exact ones.
Corporations in America don't pay taxes. They kill us slowly and erode our democracy and sponsor facism but they don't pay taxes.
- They don't pay income tax, but they do pay tax. They pay payroll taxes when paying employees, and those employees have to pay income taxes on those wages.
  
  If you buy american, some of that money will go to the feds in taxes, and the US has a major corporate tax evasion problem. Both are true.
They're not the only options!

There's also..... American Express

How do we not have an international European card processor?
- Because usa government and companies bought the current politicians
  
  While it is partly true - look at how big lobbyorganisations of said companies are in Strasburg - I do not like how General this is. "All politicians are bought" is just straight up wrong.
- I think that's what things iDeal and Bancontact are for (respectively Netherlands and Belgium). This is a country wide payment system that is available in remotely every store/service, and sometimes the only accepted one
  
  Edit: it seems iDeal can sometimes be used outside of the Netherlands. Btw both systems are still controlled by banks
Digital Euro when?
So is cash the only non-US option? Even my current account uses visa debit.
- Visa at least probably doesn't collect a per transaction surcharge on these transactions right? I mean, they probably do get your data and probably ultimately still cost you money in a round about way.
  
  I have no idea. I've wondered about buying those prepaid MasterCards for things where a card is needed. It's kind of like you need to think like someone doing fraud just to opt out of a financial norms that you don't agree with. People are already weirded out by someone paying cash here.
In Sweden we have Swish, which allows you to pay for stuff online without using any debit or credit card. I use it all the time, I cannot remember last time I paid online with card, unless it was from a foreign online shop/service.

However, it often isn't available in grocery and retail stores. But it is often available in rural areas or small shops who don't want to pay the fee for cards.

Also, Sweden is developing an e-krona, an electronic version of the Swedish currency. It should hopefully replace cards in all shops in the future.

Until then, using cash in grocery and retail stores is always possible. The problem is most swedes haven't seen physical money in so long I am not certain they still know how to use it... 🤔
- MobilePay in Finland and Denmark. I am not so sure the underlying payment infrastructure is US-free though.
  
  This is a good point concerning Swish too, I have no idea.
- You actually can pay in quite a few retail shops using swish nowadays.
  
  Also loads of stores don't accept cash at all. Most big stores like grocery stores accept cash but not always all tills
  
  Yeah, it is definitely getting more common. And cashless stores are also getting more common, which isn't necessarily a desirable development :/
- Wait, we're getting an e-krona?
- For Willys or Hemköp you can download the app and scan. Scan directly in the Hemköp app. Use scan&go on the Willys app
Reminder: Arguing and discussion is okay, but keep it civil and do not attack the person you are arguing with.
So what should we use😂?

This is getting absurd
- Depends on what’s available where you live. In Poland we have BLIK! I think a few other countries are starting to use it too. The way it works is that in your banking app you get a 6 digit code, and enter it in the terminal. Less convenient than tap-to-pay but writing that made me realize how spoiled I am, lol. It’s really convenient for online purchases though, no need to spend all that time writing card info and no risk of that info getting into the wrong hands.
  
  Some things are harder to replace than others, and no one expects you to change everything anyway. I don’t know why it’s “too absurd”. If anything, our dependence on that makes them all the more important to use/develop alternatives for.
There is already a solution inside the EU, the shops just have to support it now. "Over the course of 2025, banks will no longer be allowed to charge additional fees for instant transfers in euros. Banks in all 20 euro countries must also offer the real-time service as standard."
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.

If your intentionis boycotting the US, pushing crypto ain't it 😂 americans are the most invested in cryptocurrencies and the current administration more than so.
- I really like the idea of crypto. But i can't fucking stand people who like crypto. I used to lure around crypto messaging boards around the time bitcoin blew up and before it crashed. Every other post was like: buy crypto, and use it, apes together strong. That kind of shit. And the next post: haha this loser bought a pizza for 20k dollars worth of bicoin.
  
  It's all around just prople pretending to hold btc and tell people to hold btc, just to sell everything as soon as it's profitable
  
  Yea, holders of bitcoin have a vested interest in pushing it to other people so they can sell.
  
  Bitcoin as an investment is ponzi scheme through and through, it just happens that it can also be used to make transactions.
In (only) Italy you can use Bancomat
I often paid with my cards (or my watch), but switched to cash until there is a legit european alternative. Most cryptocurrencies are pump and dump schemes
The real problem here is that the "alternative" is a lot country specific alternatives that have no leverage to command worldwide adoption.

This could only be addressed ultimately by EU federalization. Let's see how much time until people and governments take to realize this.
Any time you use a card at a PoS terminal in the US, one of those two are likely the payment processor as well.
Same with American Express and Discover.

The alternatives I know of are JCB, UnionPay, Interac and RuPay
I think that's one of the part where there is no credible alternative, most of your credit/debit card will be either Visa or Mastercard, they're monoliths

every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons

Genuine question, how so?
Girokarte regelt
- Hast du dir mal das Logo mit dem zwei Kreisen näher angeschaut?
  
  Giro payment system läuft getrennt von Visa und Mastercard. Viele Girokarten sind aber eine Kombination aus Giro und Visa oder Masterkarte und da kommt manchmal das Logo her.
In France there is the CB network.

A lot of cards are dual network CB/Visa or CB/MasterCard and the fees are much lower in the CB network so most POS are using it as well.
Does the same go for debit cards?

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