Meta: For the sake of mutual aid with Blajah and my sanity, no more posts about Blajah's moderation policies please.

In favor of doing this, but keep the old posts locked without removing them so people know what happened and what led up to this.

I'm OK with that but it has to be a bit more targeted specifically to blahaj's rule about gatekeeping and neopronouns, and I would add everything drag of course.

I wouldn't delete old posts, just lock them.

Maybe make it a temporary moratorium?

I'm completely in favor of this.

Frankly, most of what I see on this comm is BPR and YDI, and most people could probably benefit from taking their bans and touching grass. But having some posts be YDI makes the PTB's more exciting so maybe i'm wrong.

Maybe we should make some penalty for earning a YDI or BPR, so that people who receive them aren't encouraged to re-hash the same conflicts over and over? I'm honestly not sure. Part of the problem is that the same people cross-post the same conflict on similar comms, which makes it feel as if the same issue is being litigated repeatedly.

But complaining about receiving a ban from a protective community with strict conduct policies is certainly not the intent of this community, i don't think.

I agree, this community should be a place to discuss mod abuse, not bellyache over transphobia and hate speech being censored or being banned from it. Such discourse makes this community extremely toxic and unusable to vulnerable groups, it also creates inherent bias here favoring alt-right shitheads.

I think @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone would very much agree with this decision as well.

Well, I'm for this move. The why is obvious, as you've covered it in the post already.

I would also like to voice support for a couple ideas from previous comments

First, that previous posts stay up, and locked, so that people can still see that the issues were.

Second, that y'all consider the possibility of an FPT (frequently power tripped) thread at some frequency where folks can still hash out the common subjects. This and the mod abuse C/ are valuable pressure relief valves. I worry that a total banning of "frequent fliers" (sic) might have effects down the road.

I know that's extra work for mods, so it's definitely a big ask, but lemmy does need places where disgruntled users can complain. Having multiple places is better because one community would get swamped if they're the only place people can go for specific complaints.

As a blahaj'r, I would deeply appreciate this.

The way I see it, is that the rules and aim of the instance are all written out pretty fucking clearly and people on a platform dominated by longform text don't really have an excuse for not being able to comprehend it. Like seriously, I had been using Lemmy for two days when I checked out Blåhaj, and I feel like I understood then already because it's not hard and English is my native language.

So that said, when I see people complaining about it, I think they're either fucking stupid, or they're probably these 'free speech' people that want the right to go around insulting everyone without consequences (while doing the most epic pearl clutching the moment anyone insults them).

As far as I'm concerned, moderators and admins doing exactly what is clearly fucking written in the description and rules is not power abuse.

I think previous posts should remain up, to preserve the discussion in that post, but I understand why you don't want any further posts about this.

I think everyone has shared their views on the topic already.

1. Leave the threads up, probably locked. Don't erase history.
2. I wouldn't start on wholesale topic bans just yet. This should be an absolute last resort and this will probably do more harm than good.
3. Possibly create some extra categories for titles so users can filter it out if they don't want to hear about it. Instance name of the potential PTB? Not sure.

My suggestion for this topic right now is to get everyone together that needs to and talk/scream/yell about it in private. I think everything has been said publicly at this point and the reading comprehension has gone down the toilet. The amount of misunderstandings, blanket downvotes, pettiness, bad assumptions, baiting and finger pointing is getting ridiculous. Have your damn say and find a conclusion, even if said conclusion is 'fuck you' from each person.

For shit like this in the future? If it comes to it, it is far better to lock first, talk to the person, and then unlock it. We can tell each other all day to be an adult, but it isn't that simple. There will always be some big event that floods the community at some point or another. This community practically begs for it. It will eventually be filed into PTB history.

I think you're doing the right thing. The trolls are really stepping up, which is obvious in this thread. I'm trying to share it a lot because if you really read it and understand the process of what they're doing, you'll save yourself a lot of time and energy.

“Once we isolate key people, we look for people we know are in their upstream – people that they read posts from, but who themselves are less influential. We then either start flame wars with bots to derail the conversations that are influencing influential people, or else send off specific tasks for sockpuppets (changing this wording of an idea here; cause an ideological split there; etc).”

https://archive.is/PoUMo

Edit: I forgot to add this part of the thread:

The goal is to keep opinions we don't want fragmented and from coalescing in to a single voice for long enough that the memes we do want can,...

I wouldn’t be against a temporary ban on posts about getting banned from LBZ over neopronouns, but my general inclination is to keep the previous posts up but locked as a wall of shame. I also understand wanting to take them down altogether and I wouldn’t be that fussed about it if they were.

Everything involving this Blahaj slapfight has been BPR, and anyone continuing to rehash it over here is just BPR^2

Like, seriously, this should've ended the minute the obvious troll provoking everyone got banned. Nothing productive will ever come of continuing to talk about it now, all sides need to let it go.

If I might make a suggestion, assuming it wouldn't cause more of a moderation nightmare: Maintain a list of soft banned topics that get relegated to a weekly "containment" thread. Complaints about explicitly stated instance wide rules get routed there. People have their space to complain but it keeps things cleaner. It also still allows this place to serve as kind of a watch for abuse. Just because it's a clearly stated instance wide rule, or that anyone can pick up and go somewhere else on the fediverse, doesn't necessarily mean it's not being abused.

Either way, I despise the idea of deleting the previous threads. There's nothing illegal and people should be able to draw their own conclusions about those shitshows. I think the previous threads should be locked to prevent any further comments requiring mod work, but left up. They are important context to this whole mess in case it flares up again. Really sucks coming into something late and being attacked for asking questions that are only obvious if you're already up to date, that come across as attacks to people already in it, but you have no way of knowing any better about.

I also have some concerns about this comm if certain topics start becoming forbidden. It limits the ability of this space to allow the community to pass judgement on and discuss mod/admin actions. But not limiting could end up with this com just devolving into a complaint quarantine for leapords ate my face "contestants".

Tl;dr- don't ban topic (maybe a weekly quaratine thread for certain topics), lock old threads and leave up

I’ve made my take on the whole xenogender argument clear elsewhere so I won’t rehash it here. From an administration perspective I understand your thought process.

I would say leave previous posts up, as it is a very real part of the experience of the fediverse and should remain documented. I would also find it reasonable to limit further posts on the subject.

I'd want the old posts kept for historical reference, but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Why do you need to delete old posts?

Where can users banned by blahaj admins for lurking in other communities report it? Especially because the lahaj admins ban so many people for gatekeeping despite them not gatekeeping.

There's a theme here of covering up dissent instead of engaging.

Blahaj admins started this whole ordeal in december for banning dissent and losing dozens of users instead of engaging with their community.

PTB

Proposing a very specific limit on posts referring mod/admin actions taken against users on LBZ that directly fall afoul of their instance rules regarding very specific gatekeeping might have some value. The subject has been hashed and re-hashed too fucking much. Their rules are their rules, breaking those rules on the instance is clear YDI. Breaking those rules elsewhere and having action taken against you is arguably PTB. I'm in favor of the idea of putting that on wax.

Purging previous discussion is no good, and even the proposal, coming from a community mod as it does, rubs me the wrong way. It shouldn't, because you have just as much right to propose a change as any other community member, but it puts me on edge.

There is value in what's been said already, even if some of it is highly disagreeable. Suggesting removal of that record for any reason invites future discussion of the same, IMO. Not everyone who will ever be a member of this community is a member now. If we're going to consider making a rule about this whole mess, best to leave the roadmap that led us here intact.

Potential yes to a well-defined rule of specific, narrow scope. Hard, hard no to retroactive application of that rule.

I stopped visiting this instance because the transphobic screeds became too much for me. Someone who doesn't 'get' half of young trans people but just feels being nice to people exploring themselves or ignoring them if they're too much is easier.

I have a related question:

Where do the users who get banned from YPTB go, when they eventually get banned from YPTB?

In fact I thought this was already a rule.

I appreciate this post, really helps me fill out my block list. It is sad that people cannot just let others live as they want.

This shouldn't even be a debate or question. This hateful bullshit against Blahaj just needs to stop and mods need to put their foot down and say enough is enough. Like if this kind of shit arguing against a queer friendly instance for being queer friendly is okay or permitted I don't think that !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com should even be on our instance anymore, and our admins should just remove it.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope this community can put an end to this bullshit and stop endorsing queerphobic users' complaints.

I agree in at least a memorandum or a break on this so everyone, myself included, can outside and breathe from air. Play games they enjoy. Read a good book. Listen to music.

Taking a break from the keyboard helps me when I'm upset about online stuff that doesn't impact the real world.

I’ll die on the hill that their bullshit about pronouns and respecting nonsense and made up troll identities that make a mockery of us makes the world LESS SAFE for queer people. As a queer person who is visibly gender nonconforming and at physical risk in our current political environment. Im willing to be banned from all of lemmy over this idgaf.

Millennial queers and our elders fought like hell for acceptance so children could get their panties in a twist over being “misgendered” by strangers on the internet who don’t know them nor give a fuck what their gender is. Do these kids even touch grass? Chronically online children putting us all at risk.

Meanwhile we have real serious threats to our physical safety in America but yeah. Let’s whine and cry about being misgendered! it’s oppression!

Edit - IRL I call people what they want to be called. Online I have no idea who the fuck you are or what your gender is nor am I going to remember. And the genderless “they” is not undermining your gender you don’t get to police the English language. And that’s really what this is about. People who feel powerless grabbing on to what little power they have to police others behavior under the ironic concept of “gatekeeping.” That’s the pronoun whining in a nutshell.

As for the question at hand, lock old posts, let new ones through. Their moderation is heavy handed and not queer friendly and they deserve criticism for it. Only their kind of queer is accepted. Not people like me living in reality, staring down the beginning of a genocide and telling them to grow the fuck up.

Agree. Thank you. EDIT I have changed my opinion on this. See here https://lemmy.cafe/comment/10132150 and the preceding thread.

at this point it's all just going in circles

Doesn't one of the db0 mod team literally think xenogenders are trolling? He's probably just going to override you and say those posts are allowed.

No

Themesong for this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt30uxh2fhM

which is a mf'n bop bee tee dubs

After thinking about this a little bit more: can we just only exclude anything related to xenogenders, no matter the instance? or even just the topic when coming from blahaj? There could be actual moderation issues on blahaj, as seen with 196's fiascos.

Good move.

moderates a drama community

gets upset when people air drama

PTB if you make this change

this community is about documenting admin/mod abuse making exceptions for other instances undermines the entire point

I think it's the wrong direction. Though much more work is involved, focusing on the comments themselves should be the way to go.

This community is about rules and whether the people in charge of maintaining them abuse their power. The topics in which this happens matter less than whether there is an abuse happening.

So the comments that focus on the wrong thing are the ones that should be moderated.

Is there an abuse? Yes/No and why.

I think people should be allowed to complain about any mod, on any community, on any instance.

Otherwise, it shows a pretty clear favoritism.

I don't come here for fruitless arguments regarding lemmy.ml or blahaj.zone moderation, but that is the cost of open discussion. If people want to fight each other, who are we to prevent them?

Just block them folks that how adults handle the issue after the reasonable approach didn't work.

We went through this with neo lib acolyte communities on Lemmy world

Let them have their echo chambers there is planety of room to grow fedi in place that welcome a higher quality of discourse. Blaha doesn't really have anything critical

If we're at the point where Blahaj gets a pass for power-tripping by using the idea that they're a trans safe-space as a shield, even as they harass other trans users on other instances to the point of leaving the Fediverse, I'm out of this comm.

This fucking comm is already SRD for Lemmy.

Cya.

Its not ur choice as to if a mod is a BTB. The community gets to decide that. This post itself is a PTB kind of move ngl.

To all the blahaj stans: