Her parents were injured in a Tesla crash. She ended up having to pay Tesla damages
Her parents were injured in a Tesla crash. She ended up having to pay Tesla damages
Tesla has sued its own customers and journalists in China for defamation – and won just about every time.
Zhang Yazhou was sitting in the passenger seat of her Tesla Model 3 when she said she heard her father’s panicked voice: The brakes don’t work! Approaching a red light, her father swerved around two cars before plowing into an SUV and a sedan and crashing into a large concrete barrier.
Stunned, Zhang gazed at the deflating airbag in front of her. She could never have imagined what was to come: Tesla sued her for defamation for complaining publicly about the car’s brakes — and won. A Chinese court ordered Zhang to pay more than $23,000 in damages and publicly apologize to the $1.1 trillion company.
Zhang is not the only one to find herself in the crosshairs of Tesla, which is led by Elon Musk, among the richest men in the world and a self-described “ free speech absolutist.” Over the last four years, Tesla has sued at least six car owners in China who had sudden vehicle malfunctions, quality complaints or accidents they claimed were caused by mechanical failures.
Reason 412 why I'll never get in a Tesla.
Consumer protection is key for any country.
Too bad the US seems to have shut down its consumer protection agencies.
It is not common practice for automakers — in China or elsewhere — to sue their customers. But Tesla has pioneered an aggressive legal strategy and leveraged the patronage of powerful leaders in China’s ruling Communist Party to silence critics, reap financial rewards and limit its accountability.
This was very explicitly in China. That's not to say we're doing much better though.
Help me Futo's Louis Rossmann, you're my only hope.
Yeah but China pretends it's still communist so they don't have "consumers" because that's a capitalist ideal. ☝️🤓
Reason 3 why we should be taking them off our streets.
Reasons 1 &2 are also safety related to be clear.
If a Chinese court would side with an American company against its own citizens it means one of two things:
- The girl's father was really at fault.
- The judicial system in China is fucked up beyond repair.
Japan has similar laws curbing free speech. It comes down to the east asian concept concept of 'face'.
Japan's defamation/libel laws, similar to this Tesla case China, don't matter if what you said is true. What matters is that you disrespected the 'face' and reputation of those in power.
For example, if a news agency reports on a rapist, or an individual puts up a bad review online: it doesn't matter if it is true. The 'victim' sues you for libel/defamation for speaking the truth because you didn't "give them face" and you hurt their public reputation. Expect the police to come knocking and ask you to remove your truthful reviews, or you risk jail time or civil penalties.
Edit:
The judicial system in China is fucked up beyond repair.
I suspect the judicial system here is working exactly as intended. Its the laws in Japan/China that are fucked when it comes to free speech vs protecting the 'face' of those in power.
Edit 2: I dug up some China specific info: "In Understanding and Application of the 1993 Answers, the SPC [Supreme People's Court] clarified that truth was NOT a defense to defamation. If a work insults and damages a person’s reputation, it is defamatory even if true."
I'm having trouble finding more info about the specifics of the ruling in the Tesla case (AP, CBS, English media don't provide any info), but I'd bet my dollarydoos that the ruling relates to the Chinese civil code concerning the rights of 'reputation' and 'honor' of Tesla being infringed in this instance. The AP article misses a lot of this nuance and detail, which is unfortunate. Something like The Atlantic or the Economist, Foreign Affairs (or NYT 20 years ago) with long form articles and investigative journalism from the days of old might have provided this detail, but these days BBC, CNN, et al care more about click-thru rates so we don't get the full picture.
In your second link it contradicts what you say about it not mattering if it’s true, right below the section you quoted:
“If the act relates to matters of public interest and has been conducted solely for the benefit of the public, the truth or falsity of the alleged facts shall be examined, and punishment shall not be imposed if they are proven to be true. (See Article 230-2 of the Criminal Code). Article 32 of the Criminal Code provides for the Statute of Limitations for filing a criminal action for defamation which shall prescribe in ten (10) years.”
Truth is also not a defense for defamation in the UK, though the law was changed about a decade ago to limit the potential for abuse. The UK is a popular venue to sue for defamation because it gives the plaintiffs a relatively easy ride.
Well, the article does say that Tesla enjoys the patronage of powerful members of the CCP. Like any capitalist society, China is ruled by the elite, and the elite are friendly with Tesla.
2**
And another superpower near you will be like this in a decade
With Musk, I'm guessing #2.
It’s not whether the girls father is at fault, read the article. She put a lot of effort into publicly defaming the company to try to get damages. While it seems like they should have had a better response, including sharing the evidence they had, there has to be a better way to get justice
she draped her damaged car with a banner proclaiming “Tesla brake failure” in front of the Tesla dealership in Zhengzhou, the capital of Henan province, some 200 km (124 miles) from her home. She sat on the Tesla’s roof and blared her protest through a bullhorn: “Tesla Model 3 brakes failed,” she said. “A family of four almost died.” The next month, she parked her damaged car outside an auto show in Zhengzhou
she draped her damaged car with a banner proclaiming “Tesla brake failure” in front of the Tesla dealership in Zhengzhou, the capital of Henan province, some 200 km (124 miles) from her home. She sat on the Tesla’s roof and blared her protest through a bullhorn: “Tesla Model 3 brakes failed,” she said. “A family of four almost died.” The next month, she parked her damaged car outside an auto show in Zhengzhou
All those things are perfectly reasonable if there actually was a brake failure. That car almost killed her family. If Tesla doesn't want to be called out don't put dangerous vehicles on the road.
It's definitely the second. There's a reason people joke about "Tiananman Square 1989". Everything is censored to hell and back
This would be seen as too absurd even for a 90s or 2000s dystopian sci-fi movie. Tesla's advancements in automotives has always been about sending out half-baked tech and having the people test it at their expense, while other EV manufacturers did it the traditional way of actually testing the shit in proper facilities before putting it on the market...
Is the braking system in a teslas “half-baked tech” for owners to test? I thought the brakes were pretty standard
I hope this eats the shit out of their Chinese market. It dropped quite a bit in other areas but like 10-11% in China. I want to see everyone dump Tesla.
I used to admire him when I was younger. Now, I would queue in line to kick him in the gonads.
Are you sure he has them? He seems like a dickless coward to me
Die in a Tesla? Believe it or not, jail.
Fun fact: electric brakes, "brake by wire", dont have mechanical backups.
I trust the rusty hydraulic brake lines on my XJ Cherokee more than i trust Tesla to not have electrical glitches.Edit: I'm not certain Teslas are using brake-by-wire and i was assuming they were based on an article i read a while ago.
I will continue shit-talking Teslas, regardless.
Depends on the vehicle. My Nissan Leaf (full electric) and Chevy Volt (plug in hybrid) both brake primarily with regenerative braking, but pushing the brake pedal past a certain point engages conventional brakes.
I don't think it's even possible to come to a full stop in either vehicle without engaging the physical brake. Regenerative braking doesn't do much when you get under 10 MPH or so.
Regenerative braking and brake by wire are 2 very different things. One is the brake pedal engaging an energy generating device based on current resistance/momentum until certain physical conditions are met, the other is the brake pedal being attached to essentially a trigger like on a game consoles controller, that tells a computer how hard you pressed the pedal, which then thinks about it and tells the calipers to engage the amount it thinks you meant.
The Nissan Leaf is not brake-by-wire—the brake pedal is directly connected to the car's hydraulic braking system.
If your electric brake-assist failed you would still have conventional hydraulic brakes.
Jk wrangler. Electrical issues out the ass, but nothing that'd be fatal.
But Tesla is not brake by wire like that. The brake pedal is connected directly to the hydraulic system, right?
I think you're right, actially. I incorrectly assumed Tesla was full brake-by-wire at this point.
One reason to trust hydraulic brakes is that Federal regulations require redundancy and graceful degradation. A vehicle has two hydraulic brake systems, each controlling diagonally opposite wheels. I don't know much about Tesla brakes, except that they use regenerative braking as well as disks.
Wtf
Elon should sue himself for defaming himself
The brakes in these things have a lot of safety features and logging added to them.
If the brake was pressed, it's easy to prove with the cars logs. It's how most of the unintended acceleration stuff goes.
If you press the brake and the accelerator at the same time the brake will win as well.
She put seals on the doors to prevent Tesla from accessing the interior saying she didnt trust Tesla, and she refused 3rd party independent testing that Tesla offered to pay for.
Nothing about this specific incident helps her credibility at all.
Also, this story is old.
This would be much better with citations.
https://insideevs.com/news/505015/tesla-response-china-protestor/
The car eventually went to a local service shop, but Tesla says Zhang sealed the doors so nobody would be able to get inside the car.
Tesla also says she refused an offer to have the car's brakes independently tested by a third party.
From Tesla Directly
On March 6, Ms. Zhang once again declared that she would reject any form of vehicle testing, and requested to return the vehicle and compensate for mental damage, medical expenses, and lost work expenses. In the Tesla store, a banner that reads “Brake Failure” was posted on the car body, and attention was drawn by means of pulling up banners and using speakers to spread Tesla’s negative comments, affecting the normal operating order of the store. Tesla staff have offered to advance the third-party inspection fees several times, but Ms. Zhang has always refused. Because of the greater impact of his “rights protection” behavior, the local police station sent out police officers to provide on-site persuasion on many occasions.”
“Since February, we have been doing our best to actively communicate with Ms. Zhang and her family. We sincerely hope that we can promote vehicle inspection as soon as possible and give a result to the friends who care about Tesla."
Edit: And obviously, this is just Tesla's statements on the matter, but I haven't ever seen anything to contradict their claims, and she lost in court and was forced to apologize. I imagine if you read Chinese you could find more sources or even court documents reiterating the seals/refusal stances.
At risk at seeming like I sympathize for Musk (I don't), anyone else read parts of the article that raise questions?
In the United States, Musk has found a powerful ally in Trump. Together, they have ransacked the federal government
ransacked? Doesn't that usually mean plunder? They're damaging the government in many horrible ways, however, Musk outright stealing from the government would lead to easy challenges making headlines: I wish he'd make it that easy.
Ransack for as in vigorously searching through something could be another sense, but it wasn't used that way here. I guess it could mean rush through, causing damage. Curious word choice that I can overlook. Reading on…
She filed a complaint with a local market regulator, requesting a refund and compensation. Teslas are among the most computerized cars on the market, so Zhang asked the automaker to turn over the full pre-crash data from her car, hoping it might help explain what went wrong. Tesla refused.
“Tesla’s employees were very arrogant and tough in dealing with my complaints,” Zhang said in an interview. “I was burning with anger.”
no mention of Zhang receiving compensation
So it looks like Tesla is resisting compensating Zhang & releasing pre-crash data.
A top executive speculated to Chinese media that she “had someone behind her” and said Zhang was making a fuss because she just wanted higher compensation.
Wait, did Zhang receive any compensation? I thought she hadn't. I still don't know. Does the article clearly say?
Back in court as a defendant, Zhang was unable to prove that the brakes on her Tesla had indeed failed.
Besides Zhang's words of her father's panic that the brakes aren't working, did she have solid evidence that the brakes did not work? Post-crash analysis? Independent analysis of untampered logs directly off the car's hardware?
While I was ready to condemn Musk & Tesla and to ridicule the Chinese government over this, this isn't satisfying. Not to understate all the other reasons to condemn them, which are clear & also covered in the article, this article leaves unanswered a number of critical questions that it could answer.
Ransacked doesn't mean plundered, you can ransack your house looking for your keys. Although it also has been plundered, we know they've taken data that they shouldn't have at the very least. Their also taking all the money and putting it in a big pile in their office
As far as the lawsuit, they're saying Tesla has been stonewalling them. If Tesla paid a settlement, it would've included a settlement agreement and likely an NDA - when they say more money, it probably means Tesla made them an offer they refused
dictionary entry
ran·sack
/ˈranˌsak/
verb
past tense: ransacked; past participle: ransacked- go hurriedly through (a place) stealing things and causing damage.
"burglars ransacked her home" - search through (a place or receptacle) to find something, especially in such a way as to cause disorder and damage.
"Hollywood ransacks the New York stage for actors"
even you wrote ransack … for to denote the other sense
you can ransack your house looking for your keys
- go hurriedly through (a place) stealing things and causing damage.