6d ago

More men without kids are getting vasectomies, doctors say

In over 30 years of practice, Dr. Errol Billinkoff rarely saw a man without kids come into his Winnipeg clinic to get a vasectomy. But since the pandemic began, he says it's become an almost daily occurrence.

And he's not alone.

"At first, I thought I was the only one who was noticing this," Billinkoff, who brought a no-scalpel vasectomy procedure to Winnipeg in the early 1990s, told CBC News in a November interview.

"But I am part of an international chat group where doctors who do vasectomies participate and the topic came up, and it's like everybody notices it."

135 comments

This is what happens when the conservatives threaten the right to an abortion. Drastic measures have to be taken.
No kid should be born unloved or a woman have her life threatened because too many ignorant folks think she is sinful for getting healthcare or evil for not raising more wage slaves for the bourgeoisie.
- I disagree but unless we get actual data on why people are choosing not to have kids then we don't really know for sure.
  I'd say the major reason is wealth inequality, cost of living, inflation, housing prices, etc. Everything's too expensive... everything. It's getting to the point that life isn't even worth living anymore, as its just a repetitive cycle to work and pay bills. I both can't afford to have a kid, nor would I want to bring one into this hellscape.
  Again no way to know the real reasons unless we get the data.
  
  It's money first and foremost. People are struggling to survive by themselves. They can't afford kids. So conservatives get rid of abortion. They frame it as a religious issue, but it's only such for their ignorant followers. For those monied individuals at the top its purely about having an ever growing slave caste to exploit. Can't have infinitely growing profits without an infinitely growing base of suckers to sell shit to.
  It's also about freedom. Self determination. And the general state of the world. Nothing of substance is being done about climate change. We're staring down the barrel of WWIII. Late Stage capitalism.
  It's a confluence of factors that taken together paint a particularly bleak future.
  
  One data point and I'm American, but figured I'd give my two cents on why I did it.
  In addition to all the reasons you listed I think that my own mental health is an obstacle, and also the increasingly limited access to women's healthcare.
  Making the decision to not have kids was a complex issue for me as I imagine it is for others too. Tbh the political and economic climate was probably the final push I needed, but there's probably at least 10 reasons in total.
- Did Canada ban abortion ?
  
  All the conservative mps have voted against support of abortions recently and they’re currently projected to a win a majority government in the future.
- Let's get clear i hate pp and the con as much a everybody here but pp never ever talked about removing abortion rights, he actually said the opposite. I'll reiterate pp is a loser, he has no real agenda, and his whole camapign is basically fuck trudeau. But he never said abortions right were on the table.
  https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/debate-on-abortion-rights-erupts-on-parliament-hill-poilievre-vows-he-won-t-legislate-1.6880392
  A common sense Conservative government will not legislate on abortion and therefore would never use this section of the Constitution pertaining to this matter," he said.
  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-same-sex-marriage-abortion-1.7222881
  In an interview with Liberal MP Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, who hosts a podcast called Uncommons, Alberta Conservative MP Arnold Viersen also stressed his social conservative credentials on other issues, saying he wants protections for what he calls the "pre-born," supports Alberta Premier Danielle Smith's transgender policies and would vote to criminalize cannabis possession again if given the opportunity.
  Asked by Erskine-Smith about a hypothetical future bill to overturn same-sex marriage, Viersen said, "I vote gay marriage down."
  In a media statement issued Monday, Poilievre said Viersen's statements and positions "do not represent the positions of the Conservative Party, or myself as leader."
  "As our party's policy book, adopted by party members, has said for years, 'a Conservative Government will not support any legislation to regulate abortion.' When I am prime minister, no laws or rules will be passed that restrict women's reproductive choices. Period," Poilievre added
  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rayes-abortion-poilievre-1.7362640
  Poilievre has said that if he's elected prime minister, his government will not support any legislation to regulate abortion.
  "As the Party's policy book, adopted by Party members, has said for years, 'a Conservative Government will not support any legislation to regulate abortion,'" said Poilievre's spokesperson, Sebastian Skamski, in a media statement.
  "When Canadians elect Pierre Poilievre as Prime Minister, no laws or rules will be passed that restrict women's reproductive choices. Period."
  Once again just to be clear. Fuck pp and his cons🫡
  
  Yes, but also conservatives are frequently lying bastards who promise to not make things worse and then make things worse. The US supreme court judges aren't Canadian, but they are conservatives and the recently appointed ones all said that Roe v Wade was settled law and they wouldn't change it,.

I've decided I don't want to have kids at all.
My wife is taking it better than my son and daughter are.

When animals are over stressed, unable to provide the basics of survival, and constantly dealing with external threats they tend to not have babies.
- For real? I didn't know that.
  
  TYL! 🌈🌟

Why would I force another human into this shitty existence?
Also condoms suck and raw dick is just better.
- yea same. condoms suck.
- Syphilis and gonorrhea must love you.
  
  Wow, I didn't know it was impossible not to stick your dick in every passing stranger. Here I was only having sex with people I know and who have been tested like a weirdo.
  
  Kind of slut shamie don't you think?
  
  Well do you ask your partners if they have STDs?
  
  If you're going to mention STDs to scare people, go with the untreatable ones. The two you mentioned require an antibiotic and abstaining from sex for a bit. Love is fleeting, but Herpes is forever.

I’m sorry, there is an international chat group where a bunch of doctors that perform vasectomies congregate and talk about vasectomies?
- Gotta share the best practices, its like the postmarket os matrix chat where tech enthusiasts support each other improving builds ;)
  
  Too specific analogy.
  
  lol all about that postmarket
- I mean, yeah, why not? There are international whatevers for almost anything, specially professional practices. It's less cumbersome and cheaper than relying on regulatory bodies to organize and run conventions or seminars. Most of these chats are informal and born from that kind of events as well.
  Something I also learned from working with the health sector is that there are really very few 100% dedicated to their niche specialists in every area. Sure, there are many heart surgeons, but very few experts on ventricular septal defect surgery on children. And some of that stuff can be so complex as to be a sole area of dedicated study. It allows these kind of informal forums and encourages a strong mentor-apprentice dynamics. So it is not rare they hit the group chat every once in a while. I also learned there are over a dozen different ways to make a vasectomy procedure and some doctors know how to do a few but not all of them and there are reasons to prefer some over the others depending on the patient.
- Welcome to the Internet - you're new here, I take it?
- People join chatrooms to talk about their favorite TV shows or their jobs. This is no different.
- Vasectomies without Borders
- Is that weird? I'm in HVAC and I talk with fellow HVAC people all over the world. This is a thing with most fields. It doesn't seem at all weird that there would be groups of urologists online.
- Probably. I can imagine doctors being like "Hey y'all check out my favorite vasectomizin' wrench. You should get one of these, it's a true 0 degree, tightens down them nuts in hard to reach spaces."
- I'm imagining a lads' group where they post the gnarliest botched vasectomies
- Probably slightly more generalized like a urologist chat.

This is what happens when you can't afford raising kids and also more and more people decide that they would rather just enjoy their life without the responsibility or or financial burden of raising kids. I don't know how i feel about this due to the our birth rate not doing so well, and instead of people having children, we have to import people into the country (which i have no problem with but that really isn't a solution).
- that really isn't a solution
  why not? are you afraid of johnny whitebread "real" ~~murican~~ canadian getting....replaced?
  the fact that the 1% is shitting their pants over the declining birthrate makes me think it's fan fucking tastic. every industry's profit margin suffers from fewer babies. less money is spent on food, gas, clothes, giant SUVs, toys, medicine--literally everything you buy for yourself, you're also buying for your kids for 18 years. unless you don't have kids.
  those poor, poor shareholders.
  fuck them. low birthrate = GOOD.
  also, please--who wants to have a kid just so they can explain to them why they're growing up in a toxic wasteland?
  
  why not? are you afraid of johnny whitebread "real" murican canadian getting....replaced?
  It's not a solution because, with a few exceptions, standards of living (and therefore reasons to not immigrate) are rising in most of the world, so in a few decades there likely won't be enough migrants to go around.
  those poor, poor shareholders.
  If it looks like only shareholders are having problems because of low birthrates in Japan and South Korea, then you should learn more about those places.
  
  i'm not sure why you brought race into this, when there is multiple multigenerional multicultural people in this country. I don't think its a requirement that everyone has to have a child, but the way you are talking makes it sound like its a good thing our species wipes itself out. I get how you feel about CEOs and stuff, but i was just stating that why our birthrate was low, and what the goverment has done to fix that.

No right to abortion in the United States
Giving someone who didn't get asked or consent to being born, the forced existence of life.
A child for a parent is expensive, mentally draining, and you have to be a good parent
You also have to be the parent for a child with any special needs, from allergies to mental issues to being born without limbs
If the child is any form of "other" to society, they will be picked on, and then possible harmed by the rise of Neo-Fascism
Work or starve, work or be cold, work until you die. Another tax number, another corporate slave.
Being born is fine, once you're here you should try to live life to its fullest. But I don't want kids, I would be a horrid father.
- Let's not forget about child care, cause you know, in this economy both parents typically need to work to keep their heads financially above water.
- Giving someone who didn’t get asked or consent to being born
  How do you signal a desire to be born, practically speaking? Who do you contact to indicate your desire to begin existing?
  If you don't want to exist, why not simply surrender your place in line to someone who does?
  
  Antinatalists aren't suicidal, most likely living, they just understand that life isn't a gift.
  
  Legally speaking, and ethically too, I suppose, parents typically consent for their underage children. They make decisions based on what the parent thinks is in the best interest of their offspring. For some children, their best interest is to never exist. Forced birth is taking medical decisions away from the mother for both the mother and the potential child.
  
  Ah yes, the classic "just kill yourself" argument. You totally destroyed that antinatalist.
  
  I would argue that the hardest working sperm fertilizes the egg, so technically it IS the one who wanted it the most.
  
  It's not some big gotcha: it's unethical because consent is impossible to achieve. You have to have been alive for quite a number of years before you even have the cognition and experience to form an opinion about existing.
  But that doesn't just mean creating new beings is good because it's impossible to consent. How would that apply to anything else?? By some logic (if you ignore obvious pain signals) animals can't "tell" us they don't consent to being butchered and eaten but that doesn't make eating meat ethical either (I'm not vegan btw.) Having sex with an unconscious person is rape, because they can't consent.
  There may be suicidal animals who want to be eaten and there are certainly people who enjoy non-consensual sex and people who like being alive and believe their existence is a gift. The outcome still doesn't excuse the act in these cases.
  
  Underpants, you're pretty smart and I almost always agree with you, but there's no option for refusing to be born. There's only one option to stop living willingly, and it's called suicide.
  
  you don't, which is why reproducing is inherently unethical.
- Giving someone who didn’t get asked or consent to being born, the forced existence of life.
  I’ve never understood that argument. Simple logic states nobody would exist if we asked every sperm and egg before having sex.
  
  Correct, you can't ask. It's a question of ethics.
  It's something to just ask. No one was asked to be born. Some where cheated out of a good life. There's people born into poverty and disease who don't know a good life. They feel that pain and suffering without the option to go out that isn't killing themselves.
  You weren't asked, I wasn't, our parents weren't, and so on. It's not evil, it's just the pure simple fact of "No one was asked to be born into a world where you need to earn money or you will die."

Continue not taxing the rich and making conditions worse for the 99%. Let's see how it works out.
- The rich don't care. They only want people to have kids insofar as to depress the value of labor relative to assets. Once the automation of lower skill services are complete, they will happily give every poor as many vasectomies and abortions they want.
- Exactly

I bet they don't get the same amount a shit a childless woman would going in to get her tubes tied.
- The female procedure is a lot more invasive than the male procedure. That's why I had mine done instead of my wife undergoing the surgery.
  .
  And, yes I do realize that's not the point you were trying to make. But it is a factor.
  
  The factor is the self appointed managers of women's biology. They don't want them women to steal kids from some future man. This is the basic line fed a woman I knew who wanted to be sterilized since her family carried the genes for a deadly dehumanizing genetic disease and some shithead doctor told her she was selfish for not wanting her future man to have a choice about kids. She left the southern us and went up north to get he procedure done. When she returned she found a new doctor. This was over twenty years ago. Long before this latest batch of idiots.
- I’ve (27m) been told no by multiple doctors. So, sorta? Granted. Last time I tried I was 24 but I hasn’t been easy. Maybe it would be now. I stopped trying.
  
  Weird, you need to find yourself a new doctor. I got mine at 23 and the first time I ever spoke to any doctor that seemed like they were against it was actually only a few months ago, I'm 28 now. Even then they didn't really seem like they were against it so much as they didn't seem to understand why anyone would want one so young.
  When I first asked my gen prac about getting snipped he said it was a little unusual for someone as young as me but he said that while actively putting in the referal so it isn't like he was trying to talk me out of it. At the urologist he just asked the standard quick questions of "you understand that it is permanent?" And " you're sure?". Then he put me on a table and got to work.
  As a humerous side note, there is one thing I didn't like about getting mine done so young. My urologist (and likely urologists in general) are used to performing vasectomies on much older guys who have a fair bit more scrotal droop to work with. Young perky me didn't have that much droop. It also didn't help that the sterilizing wash the sadists used was ice cold and the room where it was done was freezing. So my poor frozen bits were trying to ascend to party with my tonsils meanwhile this doctor was pulling on them like they were excalibur and he was itching to be crowned king of england just to try and get some slack to work with. Definitely did not enjoy that part. Still worth it though.
- There are plenty of socially acceptable ways a woman can use to prevent pregnancy.
  
  Yes like tubal ligation. Its very socially acceptable procedure unless your society is a bunch of freedom hating trash. Its only the immoral right that think they have the right to freedom of choice. Their choice only of course.

I got one because the idea of having kids has always filled me with a keen sense of dread. Any time I hear that someone is expecting a child my first thought is "oh no I'm so sorry" before saying the expected congratulations.
Both my partner and I don't like or want kids, why risk accidents happening?
- More people seem to be choosing child free living because of the state of the world and economy rn. I don't blame them.
  Get pets like me!

Can anyone here who's gotten one comment on the vasectomy process? I've been pretty nervous seeing a lot of the comments about it. I don't even do well with a normal blood draw. I feel like I'd need general anesthesia for this.
- I've never had kids. Got it done down in TX. Told the doc I've never wanted them and didn't want to pay for anymore abortions.
  I did it fully conscious with local anesthesia because I had no one to pick me up and look after me if I took the knockout gas. There were a couple tiny pricks of pain next to the base of my penis, then numbness. An unpleasant tugging sensation in each testicle when he positioned my vas deferens to cut, cauterize, and clamp the ends. That was the worst part, but like I say, it didn't hurt. Aside from that, I nervously wisecracked with the nurses, who politely laughed and joked back. Then I put my pants back on, paid the bill (ouch!), drove myself home, and spent the weekend getting high and playing video games with frozen gel packs under my balls. All that felt like was the dull tenderness you get a little while after a blow to the junk. Totally manageable. I took some Advil or something.
  Against advice, I returned to my strenuous job 3 or 4 days afterwards, and jerked off repeatedly much sooner than suggested. I've experienced zero complications, but ymmv. Taking my wisdom teeth out was much worse. Getting a tattoo is far more painful. It was a bit worse than getting my ears pierced, but healed faster.
  8/10 Would totally repeat the experience just for the days off with zero responsibilities. My only regret is I didn't do it at 18.
- Was really nbd. Gave me a local. Felt no pain at the time. Spent the next day in bed with ice on it. A little soreness, cleared up quickly. Way better than a kidneystone, fwiw.
  
  Way better than a kidneystone, fwiw.
  I would hope so considering many people, including women who have given birth, describe kidney stones as the worst pain they've ever felt lol.
- There was an initial consultation, where the doctor told me that quite a few childless men want to get the procedure reversed later, but you should consider it "not reversible." Not a problem for me.
  On the day I entered a very small room with a reclined chair. The lights were dimmed. The only pain was a brief "pinch" during anesthesia. This was "needleless" anesthesia with some kind of aerosol device, but a needle probably would have been about the same. Needles don't bother me, so I considered this a gimmick.
  It was done a lot faster than I thought. I was chatting with the urologist the entire time. The stitches were in a different part of my scrotum than I imagined they would be (higher up). Initial recovery was fine, but a couple weeks later I did have some post-op pain that was pretty bad. NSAIDS, suprisingly, helped quite a bit. This recurred a few times a year for about five years and then never again. It was not an infection. From what I understand this is a rare side effect, but possible. For a lot of people it's totally painless, but that was my experience.
- I am squeamish as all hell. Didn't think I could do it. There's a consult. They give you a Xanax, I'd recomme r telling them you're a heavyweight and get a driver, also recommend to pay the extra 100 bucks for the laughing gas.
  It's over fast. There's minimal pain. I ordered a jock strap and used it to hold ice packs over my underwear. It's uncomfortable but I just layed up all weekend. Overall what I got out of it is completely worth it.
  I'll answer any questions you have
  
  What did you got?
- It was relatively fast and painless. I had someone drive me home, wore athletic protection for a few days, laid off of any sort of rigorous exercise, and its been a really straightforward recovery experience after that. No ragrets.
- I needed more medication to numb than he thought--way more. Don't be afraid to speak up. Otherwise, the process was easy. I had discomfort for longer than he said, but that's just how my body is. Two years later, I still have some discomfort doing certain things (not common things), but again that's how my body is. That is how it is for some people, and I am just one of those few unlucky people. I have the ability to sense painful things greater than most and the ability to tolerate that pain more than most. It was still worth it. My wife and I were done having children and now we don't have to worry about any surprises.
- I had a bad time with mine. They wouldn't give me anything beyond some local anesthetic. I could definitely feel tugging sensations as they did it, and I passed out and almost fell of the table afterwords. (Luckily my wife caught me as the nurse and Dr had already left the room)
  Not bad painwise, but mine experience was not a walk in the park like I see other people have.
- They use a small hole punch device after a spray anesthetic on the area to make a pinhole size hole. They pull the vas through and cut it before sheathing the vas so sperm can't get through then do the same with the second vas.
  I had a small amount of pain with the second one but they applied more spray. It is kinda my own fault for not telling them ahead of time that I process all anesthetic drugs fast. I don't know why but I always require refreezing at the dentist for regular procedures.
  https://www.pollockclinics.com/no-scalpel-vasectomy/our-approach/
- Mine was pretty bad. The doctor was really stingy about pain meds. I was miserable the whole procedure and two weeks afterwards.
  If I ever get a scheduled surgery again, I'm going to buy gray market pain meds ahead of time.
  _{For search engines: Alexander Gershman Los Angeles}
- Mine was painful, I felt too much. The needle in each ball was a mule kick. Ive got that fancy genetic resistance to numbing agents. So other than the external lidocaine, I felt A LOT of what the guy was doing.
  I get to blow my wife without second thought now though...so worth it for sure.
- Fairly fast, fairly simple. I arranged a friend to drive me and I was content the inconvenience fell under what I would ask of a friend. Got a local anaesthetic, the doctor and nurse talked about mundanities the entire time, which was comforting in a way. But I could see "why aren't you focused right now" being a valid question.
  Recovery was pretty speedy, but I knew I was going to be on strong pain killers due to a surgery and timed my procedure for that.
  Lasting effects, other than sterility and slight scaring, is that pulling my balls hurts much more than it used to. The 'suck on the balls' move in the vids would have me doubled over, they do not want to be tugged any amount, for any reason. For a time I got a periodic sharp pain in my sack that has long since gone.
  All in all I'm happy I did it, would do it again. Would probably endure more for the benefits.
  As to the article I count in this number. Knew I didn't want kids before my 18th and starting nagging the gp to establish a pattern. I had life changing injury at 26 due to a dangerous hobby, asked again and was referred then accepted. I don't want kids because I'm lazy, and I will orphan them young.
- Whole thing lasts no more than 15-20 minutes. I took it easy for a few days but otherwise no issues. Was riding my bike and all that about five days after.
  The only uncomfortable bit is when they put the anaesthetic... there's no easy way of saying this, but they have to stick the needle in both of the sperm ducts. That's a little uncomfortable but it lasts no more than 5 seconds per nut. From there on out no issues. You feel some stuff moving around down there, but no pain.
  I had the scalpel free method, fwiw.
  My clinic sent me this video to prep. It's quite useful. https://youtu.be/gzpYhe8QBsA
- Only thing I felt was the shot to numb me before they cut. Some tenderness afterward but all in all I’ve had worse pain stubbing my toe.
- Mine was almost painless.
  I took, paracetamol only after ward for a day. I was walking around with no issues after the local anesthetic wore off.
  My brother had a really shit time, severe swelling and major pain for a week.
  I think skill plays a big factor!
  Go for a doctor that has a great reputation, ask people that they have done the procedure on!!!!!
- My doc did it under local. His preference. After, there was a little discomfort but no real pain. Like that sensation after you've been kicked in the nuts but the pain has gone away. Kinda feels like a stone in your taint. Lasted a few days and I was off doing stuff for about a week. It wasn't terrible. Should have done it earlier honestly.
- For me the procedure was not bad at all, local anesthetic was enough. When it was done. I thought everything had gone smoothly. But I would say, pay attention to the possible after effects. Apparently somewhere less than 1% of people have pain that never goes away. I ended up having pain for a solid year. And still on a rare occasion even today, 14 years later my nuts will still ache. At least it's rare that it happens, but if I had to go back I don't know if I would have done it again. I also find ejaculation less satisfying than I used to. It's like lifelong blue balls. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. The risks for women having their version of the surgery is far worse.
- My doctor did a very good job. I barely felt anything after the freezing (he used a topical before injecting the actual dose), and he did the whole procedure quickly and efficiently.
  Sent me home with a big bottle of pain killers, but I barely needed any of them.
  My brother, on the other hand, was in pain for almost a week after his.
  Find a well regarded doctor and you should have a better time.

No kids, never wanted them, made sure I never have them. Happily married for 8 years, she never wants kids either.
- so you guys are DINKs
  
  Could be NONKs, lol
  Edit: NINKs
  
  Correct! We like to travel~ I make sure to send all my nieces/nephews birthday cards and nice Christmas presents

I think this is a great thing to see happening. Men are taking birth control into their own hands. Why take the risk of an unwanted pregnancy? Sometimes other methods fail.
The peace of mind must be amazing too
- Being trapped by a woman is not even a crime no matter how bad the facts are, including rape.
  Society views men as nothing more than ATM in such cases. Should wraped it up twice lol
  So good for them!
  Better safe than sorry.
  
  Just in case someone out there doesn't know, never use two condoms. That's going to cause them to break.
  Also, I'm not sure what terrible circumstances happened to you, but I get the feeling you wouldn't appreciate sweeping statements being made about men like that.
  I hope you find yourself in a place where you no longer feel that way.

I'm doing my part.
But seriously, men should be more responsible when it comes to birth control and not leave it up to women, so I think this is a good thing.
- men should be more responsible when it comes to birth control and not leave it up to women
  Men literally only have 2 options: condom or vasectomy. Condoms don't feel good for either side, which is why both try to avoid using them. Vasectomies can be reversible, but require surgery and thus are costly, which of course makes it impossible or at the very least much less attractive for a large portion of society.
  Yes, men can buy underwear that heats up their balls to temperatures that kill sperm, but I'd like you to go around spreading the word of discomfort through sweaty balls and see how far you get.
  
  You know what feels way worse than condoms but is just as effective? Celibacy. Don't complain about how the sex you're having isn't good enough, say that the risks to your partner aren't important enough, or tell them that they're the only one that needs to be responsible. I can't imagine the type of person that would still sleep with you with those attitudes. (If you feel like fluid bonding with a person, great, that's your choice, but some of us don't want to, have multiple partners, or can't)
  
  Your 3rd option is chemical castration, which is kind of like taking the pill for decades.

Here's the thing about abortion in Canada ...
the right to abortion is not codified in law: the SCoC struck down the laws against abortion in 1988 based on our 1982 Charter of Rights
abortion is technically legal under the federal Health Act
this is why the Cons have stated they don't want to challenge women's ability to have an abortion ... because if they did in court, and it went to SCoC, the court could (and likely would) force the Con gov't to enact actual legislation forever enshrining abortion rights in Canadian law
the Cons, just like the GOP down south, are hoping to have enough power at some time to force change here -- but the problem is our SCoC works differently than SCOTUS (ie: zero judges are elected in Canada, ever); SCoC rulings are not based on original intent (and our Charter is vastly newer than America's founding documents); etc.

This is a t-shirt for women! Parts of the men would be so mad at it!

This implies childless men having sex
- what

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