Brave will not add Web Integration support
I think we need all support we can get to fight Google on this, so I welcome Brave here actually.
Use this link to avoid going to Twitter:
https://nitter.kavin.rocks/BrendanEich/status/1684561924191842304
Firefox gang
I personally switched back to Firefox after 13 years earlier this year and was surprised just how easy it was. All my main extensions exist on Firefox and it gave me an opportunity to remove some extension bloat at the same time. Highly recommend.
Try container tabs!
They have separate sessions so you can be logged in to the same site on multiple accounts. This is extreamly useful for stuff like being logged in to github using work account and company account or other sites where you just need many accounts. Aws is another good example.
There is also temporary containers that leave no trace at all.
This, I didn't move from chrome for so long because I had my passwords stored on the google password manager, but then I started using bitwarden and I could move to Edge, and then I found a speed dial extension that could backup every dial and its properties and is available on every browser, so I moved to Firefox and it was so easy and fast. The only thing I miss is being able to make apps or shortcuts from websites that will open on their own fullscreen window, but it is not a big deal.
I switched over what probably was a small thing, but is big to me.
I like to have my tabs in a list, and google enforced the grid and kept breaking ways to put it back to list.
Once they blocked me from being able to revert, that was it.
I still use it on my work machine as I find the syncing works beautifully, important as I have need to swap between desktop and laptop occasionally, and there are other desktop features I enjoy.
But as for mobile - I am done.
I adored the fox when I used Mozilla everything back in the day, so it's like coming home.
I switched over what probably was a small thing, but is big to me.
I like to have my tabs in a list, and google enforced the grid and kept breaking ways to put it back to list.
Once they blocked me from being able to revert, that was it.
I still use it on my work machine as I find the syncing works beautifully, important as I have need to swap between desktop and laptop occasionally, and there are other desktop features I enjoy.
But as for mobile - I am done.
I adored the fox when I used Mozilla everything back in the day, so it's like coming home.
Wait, will Firefox be immune to this whole website DRM thing Google is trying to pull? That would be awesome. Fennec on Android gang.
Yea, but you can't read news, cause they want to remove scrapers, you can't watch youtube, since they want to block downloaders etc etc. It's a procentage game. If enough of people won't have the DRM enabled, it won't be worth for websites to use it. Not implementing it yet, means that firefox won't be contributing to the amount of users, but if high enough procentage of websites starts using it, firefox will be forced to implement this DRM or they will be killed off by browsers that support all the websites you want to browse.
What's the Firefox equivalent to:
Brave.exe --app="http://lemmy.world"
I use this a lot as I detest electron based applications. Mozilla dropped prism years ago and before that there was xulrunner and you cant open a JavaScript popup window without clicking a bookmark.
When Firefox has this very basic function perhaps I'll consider moving.
I would recommend this extension: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pwas-for-firefox/
It adds support for PWA in Firefox. I use it because Firefox dropped native support for PWA in Firefox.
https://nitter.net/BrendanEich/status/1684561924191842304
Nitter link.
Also, the Chromium forks need to get onboard. I think Opera doesn't care about ads either so it will likely go against it but Microsoft will definitely add it to Edge.
Use Firefox :)
I guess nitter needs to be renamed to...nix?
NixOS enters the chat.
Already taken by the best packaging format
I really hope Microsoft sees the light. Edge is the best browser for my productivity. Can't work without their implementation of vertical tabs and tab groups.
Every so often I try it out on firefox and any option is just still not ideal.
As long as websites/advertisers see their visitors as using a Chromium based browser they will continue to target for Chromium, regardless of whatever front facing UI is used.
The inherent problem is Google has an outsized voice in Chromium's developmental trajectory, and any major changes to Chromium will have downstream impacts, whether in actual implemented feature sets or forks making continued modifications on top.
The best way to protest is to not use a Chromium browser. Switching from Chrome to another Chromium browser is at best a side grade; everyone using Chromium is subject to Google's whimsy.
Pragmatically it doesn't matter if Microsoft chooses not to implement it; as long as Edge is on Chromium, Google can leverage this to continue to bully the web to their own devices.
Vivaldi is against it. might want to look at it instead of edge, it's extremely customizable. Still chromium based though.
Mandatory Opera is fucking evil comment.
Holy shit that’s evil!
(Predatory loans up to 800+% and they use peoples phone contacts to message their family/friends if they miss payments)
Their business model is replacing ads with ads they get paid for. Obviously they aren't going to like Google making that harder.
Brendan Eich is an asshole deep in the Conspiracy Victim Complex too. I like Brave search as an alternative to Google but I'm still using Firefox
At least there is a big (ish?) player in the Chromium-sphere pushing back against this.
The more browsers that don't initially support this, the slower adoption by web sites will be. If enough of the browser market share remains incompatibe, and if we're lucky, maybe this technology won't stick.
You may be right but I have been using Brave on iOS simply because you can’t just install Firefox and uBlock, and since I reconfigured the new tab page I haven’t seen any ads anywhere at all.
From now on, any browser that refuses to implement Google‘s evil shit should be worth a look.
I don't agree with Brave's business model, and the shady stuff they did, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Had been using Brave for 4 years. Switched from it to Firefox after the Google DRM news came out. Firefox is awesome!
I never liked Brave. The whole "allow ads to get awards" thing doesn't sit right with me. The only adblockers that do that are the ones that are in bed with the ad companies. Firefox with UBlock Origin and NoScript is all you need.
(I mean, there are other good addons for privacy as well, but it's easy to go down a rabbit hole and next thing you know you have 30 different extensions installed and websites are breaking. Then you have to start disabling things one-by-one until you find the culprit. Setting your security settings in FF to "Strict" and using those two addons should be good enough without going overboard.)
Edit: only thing that sucks about Firefox is that it still doesn't support HDR and RTX Video Super Resolution yet, so in the meantime I use the "Open in Chromium" browser extension when I'm watching videos on YouTube, so that they display properly with all the enhancements.
When Google chrome was released in 2008, I read about it in a tech magazine and it described how much it’s going to be spying on you. I was immediately put off by it, and decided not to install it. At the time I wondered why would anyone ever install this junk. Oh boy, was I in for a surprise! Pretty much everyone installed it, and within the next 10 years chrome had become the most popular browser.
Obviously, I never switched from FF.
Made the same switch on my phone recently.
Make sure to install plugins like ublock origin. Firefox still supports this and a few other plugins on mobile, like Bitwarden etc.
If only someone would put the Firefox over the earth like the logo, that would be epic.
Brave have started their marketing spree to try and distract from their most recent controversy. Like clockwork, every time they do something controversial they start marketing to drum up new users.
Just a reminder that Brendan Eich who founded Brave was ousted from Mozilla for being a homophobic piece of shit.
Brave is the edgelord of browsers.
Brendan Eich who founded Brave was ousted from Mozilla for being a homophobic piece of shit.
He was ousted because he donated 1000$ to a political project that he personally supported, which yes, was banning of homosexual marriage.
I specify that, even if I shouldn't, the project in question is not something I agree with. Yet firing him and continuing to attack him years after (like you're doing here) over opinions he kept personal (he didn't bring it to Mozilla nor did he comment openly about this opinion) is a little shocking to me.
Let's say you personally supported a wildly unpopular, some might call bigoted, societal change, say drug criminalization in states that legalized it. As long as you just not exposed this in your professional life, how would you feel if your work fired you over it and if people kept bashing you (without knowing anything about you) and your future professional endeavors for the rest of your life?
We should probably just chill out on that part.
The DRM will be so interwoven into the core engine that they won't be able to remove it. chromium is a sinking ship
It might be interwoven, but at the end there are three interfaces:
It should be enough to disable/sabotage nr. 1. If not, you can sabotage nr. 2 so it simply doesn't attest shit. And finally you can suppress adding the verdict to the responses.
If the actual "fingerprinting" or whatever else is in there is still intact doesn't matter if you just don't trigger it.
Of course webservers would simply deny serving brave then. But it's still a good move. The more browsers get "denied", the easier it will be to make a case against websites for some kind of discrimination.
God I hope so, Google's definitely in that "Live long enough to become the villain" camp of the infamous dichotomy (is that the right word) offered from that line from Dark Knight.
Chromium is open source. Brave can just fork it.
"Just" fork it. Right.
It's a massive undertaking to maintain a fork of something that large and continue pulling in patches of later developments.
Not to say that Brave doesn't have the resources to do so - I really don't know their scale - but this notion of "just fork" gets thrown around a lot with these kinds of scenarios. It's an idealistic view and the noble goal of open source software, but in practical and pragmatic terms it doesn't always win, because it takes time and effort and resources that may not just be available.
I believe someone will make a patch and add a big WEI on/off switch. It's open-source, hey!
Switched back to Firefox myself. Highly recommend.
Firefox and ublock is where it's at
Brendan is quick to act when it comes to $$$$.. and anti LGBT law
Can you expand on the LGBT comment? I'm looking for a new browser and an anti LGBT organization would be a deal breaker for me.
Brendan Eich is vocally against gay marriage, it's not a secret. Also Brave is fuckin SKETCHY. They've always come up with "creative" ways of making money, sometimes inserting affiliate links into their users' searches, sometimes selling their data, other times getting into weird crypto schemes.
Every time somebody catches them doing something sketchy, they put out a big "OOPS SORRY THAT WAS AN ACCIDENT" statement, and their fanboys just forgive them and act like it's no big deal. Then they troll Reddit (and now Lemmy) blindly repeating how great and privacy-focused Brave is.
The only browser worth your time is Firefox. If you insist on sticking with a Chromium-based browser (which is most of them, including Brave), then Arc is pretty damn cool.
Check the section labeled "Appointment to CEO and resignation" on Eich's Wikipedia entry. He also expressed some COVID doubting nonsense during the pandemic. To my knowledge Brave doesn't have an official stance on any of this, but it's not a good look when the CEO does (or at least, did in the recent past).
With his position back then Brendan could make an impact making the world less hateful place to be yet he chose not to by supporting ban on gay marriage.
After the backlash he stepped down, he started a startup company that make web browser which is now known as Brave (brave choice of name for unapologetic homophobic).
I had no idea, but apparently the co-founder of Mozilla is also the creator of Brave and inventor of Javascript, and was removed from Mozilla after giving $1,000 to support anti-gay-marriage efforts. That's quite a career.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mozilla-ceo-resignation-idUSBREA321Y320140403
Nothing related to Brave, and Mozilla has been going downhill since the departure of Brendan.
If by what you mean by Mozilla going downhill is losing marketshare.
Yeah it's really hard to say it's only a reskin. It's clearly not.
There is also https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium as an option.
I don't get all the hate Brave gets. I understand that techies have some issues, but for me as a user I have nothing bad to say. Ads are blocked everywhere, including YouTube. There's an option to use tor...
If you don't like the crypto options don't use them. I always thought crypto was bunk, but I wish I bought a bunch of bitcoin when I first heard of it.
I don't like it because it's a chrome derivative. Sure, they use Chromium and can edit some things. But at the end of the day, they use the Chrome javascript engine and render the HTML/CSS however Google wants to. Therefore Google more or less defines how that browser represents the web. If Google wants to implement or not implement some web standard, Brave has to follow along whether they like it or not.
I want less power in Google'a hands, not more.
I think it's largely because of Brendan Eich not supporting gay marriage. The browser itself seems fine to me also.
I prefer Firefox and Librewolf because they are less dependent on Google. But I never disliked Brave. I have it as a second browser. I think the issue people have with them is that they are also fundamentally an ad company.
Look, nothing lasts forever. For now, I think brave is a decent alternative to Chrome if people don't want to leave Chromium.
I use iridium as my secondary browser for things that break on firefox !
Props to Brendan! Firefox and Brave are have put their foot down. Now they need our support. I'm hoping that nobody here is using Chrome (or anything else Google for that matter). We the users are what gave Google their power. We wanted free shit and look where that landed us. Time to turn things around.
Surely a browser with a market share 2% that of Chrome's (not total!) doing this will change anything. Surely when Google implements this and your bank and government websites start requiring your browser be "secure" users aren't going to just switch back to chrome where "everything just works".
Crazy how Chrome took off so much over default browsers like Safari and Edge. Is it because it is also taking into account Chrome on Android and Chromebooks that come as default? Or are that many normal people going out of their way to install chrome.
Well it used to be good, even non techy users knew that IE sucked and when their "computer-whizkid" nephew recommended Chrome it was genuinely faster and leaner than competition. And I've almost forgot the fact that they've advertised chrome (maybe they still do) on the main Google page that gets like billions of pageviews.
Because about 10 years ago, those Safari/IE weren't 1. as smooth/simple as Chrome and 2. everyone on the internet bar the tech nerds were pushing for Chrome. Firefox was viewed in the same light as Linux in my circles.
It was a meme that the only use IE had was to download Chrome. It's not that crazy when you realise the power of word-of-mouth and the meeting the general population's needs for simplicity and google-search integration/features
I just don’t trust Brave very much. They’re doing ok now but eventually they’ve got to make some money. Their approach means they have to invest significant effort to porting fixes in chromium over to their forked version, and they can’t drop behind or they’ll have at least security issues. I’m not sure how sustainable it is.
Brave is awesome on iOS where it will block YT ads! However, for regular desktop usage I've been using Firefox for the better part of 2 decades. Never really weaned off it actually.
Especially with the sync option, they are the perfect alternative to Chrome or any of the other commercial initiatives.
Good. The last thing we need is an untrustworthy browser (eye roll).
Brave has had my respect. Today, Brave earned my appreciation.
I don't understand.
There's loads of people for whom 3 or 4 sites make up 99% of "the web", and those sites will just stop working for people using browsers without WEI support.
I just don't really see how a browser could be viable in the future without WEI support.
And that's exactly the point. WEI makes it a world where big tech decides if they are going to support a competing browser, a competing operating system like Linux, or plugins against ads. They can also force you to have any number of plugins installed, from their choosing.
It destroys the free web completely.
This is my take too - Google Search and YouTube especially which are owned by Google.
Even if Chrome had like 5% market share, surely they could just push this anyway? While the Chromium monopoly is partially to blame for this, I'd argue the centralisation of the web is as well.
Sure, "Google Search is useless now, you can't find what you want!", but the vast, vast majority of people still and continue to use it, and nothing will change that most likely.
Google needs to be broken up. Honestly most tech companies do as they have consolidated way too much
Google search isn't useless. It's getting worse but still Google is the best search. For a lot of general searches, Duckduckgo and Kagi have been sufficient for me. "What year did WW2 end" "what is the population of Crimea" "north Korean famine 1990s"
But for example I had a picture of a specific motor an employee sent me that I had to find a replacement for online. It's a niche motor we use for a large air compressor. All I had was some model / serial numbers. I tried plugging in different variations of the numbers and "motor" into both Duckduckgo and Kagi with no luck.
On Google, the first result was a PDF of a Honda motor guide that had every single niche Honda motor and I was able to find the model name of the exact motor I needed, which allowed me to find a viable replacement on Ebay.
It hurts me to say it, but the other web searches still haven't reached total parity with Google. I use Duckduckgo as my primary and then when it doesn't find me what I need, I go to Google.
I would use Kagi but after it couldn't find me the engine, I stopped paying my monthly subscription. Until then I was happy with it, but if I'm paying for a service and it isn't any better than the free options..
Yeah reall I have seen people complain about google search followed by them using google. Neeva was a paid search engine that recently shut down. In theor fairwell message they explained getting people to pay for it was easy but the hardest part was explaing how to change search engines or what the difference between search engine and a broswer
How about having the WEI configurable just for particular sites, bit like FoxyProxy.
Isn't this just marketing? Brave and Vivaldi they already need to spoof chrome user agent or they get blocked in too many websites "you need chrome to enter"
If for example YouTube requires this scummy web attestation then they can say "only supported browsers can login" and there will be no choice because chrome is the biggest share
Yeah. I don't really see how a browser could just refuse to implement this. The few sites that make up 99% of the web for most people would just stop working.
Isn't Brave doing this because they have their own way that they sell ads for coins?
I don't entirely approve, I think. But if it helps fight Google's domination of the market, fine.
I use it.. I don't agree to ads so I don't get coins. which is great because I don't want coins, I just want no ads.
Brave users remind me of Joe Rogan bros. I wonder what that Venn diagram looks like.
Just going to leave this here
I was going to link the controversies section but it seems to have been removed without any reason at all though the controversies are discussed on the talk page for the Wikipedia article that I have linked
Does this mean anything, I mean they can just prevent us accessing to site. And even though this is something we dont wish many websites are going to implement web integrity; which lead us to being forced to use a browser compatible with web integrity if we want to use web.
I know there are always alternatives to services that are probably going to implement web integrity(mainly referring big techs' services) but we all sometimes use their services in some cases.
Just don't use Chrome, don't use websites that lock you out, complain to support
As @mosiacmango suggested many websites use adsense, it is easy for you to say just dont use them but some of them cant be replaced and dont forget you wont be able to use an alternative frontend. Even if you are not using I believe many of us are using at least some of those services that will implement web integrity or uses google ads
All google has to do is make this web DRM mandatory for websites to use its advertising engine Adsense, and suddenly a majority of the internet may refuse your browser. There are apparently about 56 million sites using Adsense. Here is a list of the top 1k by traffic. All of these could be blocked, along with 56 million more.
Yes, it means a lot.
By "does this mean anything" I referred to "Brave does not support web integrity" or else I am well aware of the impact that web integrity will make
Idk Brave is not a browser, but some crypto processig application. It tries to be more than browser, but I only need browser, so I am not going to use it.
Firefox seem to do the job just fine. <3
Have you used it? If you don't want you won't really notice anything crypto outside of the "new tab" screen. Not pushing anything onto the user while browsing. I'm not sure what people are talking about. Yes, you can have wallet there and make an insignificant amount of money by allowing their ads.
Have you used it?
Yes, I used it and switched to Firefox. Brave had just too much of a "HEY IT'S CRYPTO HERE" sort of UI elements to the point that this whole browser seemed like trash to me.
So I just switched to Firefox and been using it for the past ~1 year or so. Also their fiasco with overwritten URLs so they can make money really helped to push me away.
I’m not sure what people are talking about.
To me it's just the principle of the thing. A browser replacing ads with it's own is just... weird. The idea of being paid to be advertised to just makes me feel yuck.
The thing that comes up over and over is that all the weird stuff is opt-in. "It's just like firefox, but it has an opt-in homeless person puncher, just in case you ever want that."
Ordinarily I try to be as "you do you" as I can, but the thing that kinda rubs me the wrong way about Brave is that there's so many people so loyal to what seems to me to be a bit weird.
You can just turn the crypto stuff off, and the nice thing is when you turn it off it actually respects your decision and actually turns off
Yet they still don't switch to Gecko 🤦, despite Firefox being faster than chrome these days
I love Firefox, but I'm very skeptical of these results. I want to see them repeated elsewhere.
That's really not an easy switch to make. It's not as simple as replacing blink with gecko. If it was, we would see many more gecko based browsers.
This sounds awesome. I've been trying to switch to Firefox for the past couple years but Chrome's responsiveness and speed always pulled me back (along with some other issues)
Partially it's a license problem. The MPL around gecko is much closer to the GPL than the BSD license that that Chromium blink uses, and thus it's much less appealing for commercial products to use it.
Bold claim for a chromium-based browser.
Not really. It's easy to see exactly where the code is for a new feature by reading the commit history. It shows more or less exactly what to cut out.
If you use brave or any chromium browser you’re both an idiot and part of the problem.
Anytime someone proudly says they use brave, I know they’re an idiot and not credible on anything tech related
nitter.net also works
I don’t believe you.