It's all tied together
It's all tied together
It's all tied together
I'd love for a bearded trans man to walk in there, look her dead in the eye and tell her not to worry, he has a vagina.
The law binds but does not protect us.
Republicans will use anything to generate outrage and distract from the constant war they wage on the working class
The biggest winners of this US elections are the corporations
we'll see. Media companies, gas companies and private prisons for sure win here, other corporations may suffer if they enact most of these policies:
Invading cities with the US military will destroy real estate markets. My guess is this is a bluff.
Rounding up immigrants (lets not pretend they'll be checking documents) will destroy agricultural corps and one of the US' largest exports
Tariffs will drastically damage consumer spending and costs for electronics (which will indirectly hike data center costs).
Tax cuts will radically increase inflation again.
If there are stalls with doors in the bathroom, then mind your own damn business if someone is in there. If there aren't, then it's an issue with the facility that should be fixed so anyone using them has privacy. Why are Republicans so concerned about what people do on the toilet or in the bedroom?
"Women may get attacked by trans people" says the party who by far has the larger list of offenders. Clean your own house.
You know what, aren't American stalls notorious for giant gaps in them? Maybe if they fixed that and had better stalls things like this may smooth over better. Unless that stereotype of American bathrooms is outdated or not actually the norm
Yes they are and I hate it.
Worse, my high school had no doors on the bathroom stalls at all (at least in the boys' room). I'm guessing it was some sort of "we don't want to catch you masturbating" sort of thing but I would almost always just hold any shitting I had to do in unless I was in drama class because the auditorium had bathrooms with doors.
It varies, sometimes you find places that are designed better than others. I can only assume the two reasons are cost (less material) and easier to mass clean. Not designed for the users.
Anyone being abused in any way in a bathroom by anyone is a crime and should be reported and prosecuted. What you'll find is not what Republicans are trying to sell to get votes. It even falls under the projection label, so the ones calling for action should probably be watched closer for their own actions towards other people.
Once again, every accusation is a confession.
These people are obsessed with people's genitals. Just go to the fucking bathroom. Must you go out of your way to make even taking a shit in public more uncomfortable than it needs to be?
Shut the fuck up and do your fucking job.
Many public restrooms in Iceland are unisex. These apes wouldn't last one road trip.
I'm still trying to figure out what these people [Republicans] are doing in the bathroom. I probably don't want to know. All can say is, when I'm trying to pee in a public restroom, I don't really give a shit who's in the stall next to me. I don't care what their gender is. I don't care what their birth gender was. I'm just trying to do my business and get on with my day.
But if they don't wish me good luck, I don't want to be taking a crap next to them. Sometimes you need that emotional support on the crapper, you know?
I don't care who is with me in the bathroom. I'm not there to make friends. I wouldn't care if either Nancy Mace or Donald Trump was in the stall next to me.
Just don't talk to me unless it's an emergency, that's all I ask.
So funny what issues the conservative fossil fuel media comes up with to avoid any climate actions. People discussing genitals before extinction definitely show how Darwinism was right. Humanity will die of stupidity.
Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I'm a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don't have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who "believes being a woman".
People will exploit this.
Just a reminder: this shit is being peddled by the same people who call upon cis men to enter women's bathroom to "protect them from predators".
A predator doesn't need to identify as anything to walk into a bathroom. They just need to open the door and walk in.
AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? WHAT'S NEXT? MORE LITTER BOX DRAMA?
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a "Trans" issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against "locker room" talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won't, because you are a coward. It's just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
Hi, trans person here.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a 'belief' based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being "clocked" by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don't automatically feel comfortable using the gent's washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn't designed for us. Trans women I know who don't seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there's an individual third non gendered option that's often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women's spaces even if they don't hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don't have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don't find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women's washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn't a path of least resistance move. It's not that we "believe" we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we're doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don't keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women's room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution... But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women's room then more than likely that's a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren't permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I'm a woman
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women's bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women's restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you'd piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn't notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let's take your example and flip it - say you're a trans dude, now you're a man going into the women's restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women's restroom, that's what this is doing.
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It's literally the same energy as "if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!" Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
I didn't down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet "laws", except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet "configurations" within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now "Diverse/Neutral" too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it's very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend.... a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it's a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
Edit: Lots of typos...
To what end? To pee? Who cares? Go ahead. When the line's too long at one, people regularly duck into the free restroom in an emergency anyway. If you have to go, just go.
If someone goes into a public restroom with the intention of harming someone inside, it doesn't matter what gender any of them are, or what they look like, or which bathroom it is. None of that matters. Don't go into a bathroom with the intention of harming someone. That's wrong. The end.
I can be a super dirty trucker man
Yes you can!
The never ending tradition of conservatives always looking for someone to hate.
If bathrooms were properly designed instead of having half walls that don't even meet, I doubt people would care nearly as much.
They'd find a reason to care because this is about maintaining patriarchy and queerphobia.
I love the way Alamo Drafthouse in Texas did this. Each stall is a fully walled environment and there's a long sinkway for everyone. No one gives a shit that it's male and female together.
There is or was a bar and restaurant in Pensacola FL that tricked people into going into the wrong restroom if you weren't paying attention and/or drunk. It was funny and there was no panic or outrage.
I've seen restaurants do the same thing. Nobody looks at anyone twice. It's perfect
I was in a bathroom the other day with a messed up toilet paper dispenser. I didn't notice until a woman sat in the stall next to me and I turned my head to just see full cleavage perfectly centered through this massive like 5x5 inch gap. Most uncomfortable pee of my life.
Worth noting, this was a massive bathroom with like 30 stalls and 3 people currently in it and she chose to sit right next to me :(. It ain't just urinals, guys.
if I owned the establishment
removes sign entirely
BATHROOM
"There, y'all figure it out."
"This sign is bullshit. There's no baths in that room! Just a bunch of sinks and toilets!"
Canadian here, don't people just call it a washroom?
ever notice trans men don't have this problem?
We absolutely do, even if you don’t hear about it as often.
I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you for opening up
I like showing people who claim women don't want to change in locker rooms with trans women because it makes them so uncomfortable and that locker rooms should only be for "real" women photos of the most manly-looking, muscle-bound AFAB men I can find and ask them to tell me if they think women would be comfortable changing in front of those men.
I have yet to get a yes.
The answer to "where do they expect trans people to go" is "nowhere. Hide or die."
If trans-men wouldn't endanger themselves by doing this, I would encourage them to chill in women toilets.
But they shouldn't put themselves in harm's way just to prove a point.
We should just treat them right and protect them from this nonsense.
We should be prepared for a fight on that front. The current uproar is about trans women. Put a trans man in power (anywhere) and the shit is really going to hit the fan. The rhetoric will shift from pseudo-sexualized bathroom nonsense to "how dare you disrupt our patriarchy."
Transphobia both currently and for basically the last 50 years at least has always been framed and rooted in the idea of protecting women from predatory "men". Trans men have been a footnote, at most and I doubt one becoming prominent will have the impact you expect.
I find it incredible that global warming is skyrocketing, debt is skyrocketing, we have all sorts of existential political and health issues and the thing people worry about is...
Trans people in bathrooms.
Like, what the heck?
Even if I was anti-trans (and I am not), why would I lose so much sleep over that? What's gonna happen, I see what looks like the opposite sex in the bathroom and my head explodes?
Even racial segregation made slightly more sense because actual societal segregation was the existing state, precedent, and public consensus (as horrible as it was) but... trans people are already mixed into the public?
Climate change and wealth inequality are the reason for the hate campaign. If you can make politics about minorities you can make it not about the rich people and rich countries paying their share to deal with current issues. My siblings and I’s rights and blood is the price to keep the ultra wealthy in their private jets without fear that the people their climate actions kill will revolt and they won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.
They lack the ability to apply critical thought and effort towards real problems and it's apparently an appealing political trait for the average American voter
Democrats should hire a staffer to stand outside of the women bathroom at the capital and have them accuse every GOP women of being a man before they go to the bathroom.
They want to play these games? Let's show them what their crazy looks like
Need a big scary FTM trans man with a beard to loiter in the women's washroom because they have a vagina downstairs.
It's all about the "biology" right??
These are the same people who’d say “stop lying, you look too manly to be a trans!!!1!1!!”
AOC put it nicely, the GQP wants to do a genital check on every woman and girl that dares to go into a restroom. Can’t we just make private stalls open to anyone?
Shows who paid attention during school. You can have XY chromosomes and be born with a vagina, no genitalia, or both. You can have XX chromosomes and be born with a penis, no genitalia, or both. So biological women doesn't mean anything in the context they are using it.
Just unisex the thing. They get a lesson in tolerance and everyone gets equal treatment.
Unisex bathrooms or bust
With actually private toilets. Let everyone defecate in peace. We can share the sinks if we must.
This sounds good in theory but most women I know want to have their own bathroom. Unless it's like one person at a time deal.
Last night I was thinking about the Sarah McBride situation and it got me thinking.
"I wonder if the first black person in congress was told he had to use the Colored Room?"
She just needs to pee!
Have you watched Hidden Figures? There's a point in the movie where having different "colored" restrooms (at NASA in the 1960s) comes into play and... well, the resolution is pretty satisfying.
If you're not running a positronic neural network then you're a biological woman
Are you saying Data isn't a man? Because he's-
Which just makes this whole thing even more nonsensical and confusing since androids don't have the need to expel waste the way humans do, and thus would not need to use a restroom.
Technically, that would depend on what would power the android. An android that gets energy from processing human food would work pretty well and there is sci-fi precedent for it- androids in the Aliens films eat food.
That said, I would hope they would have a more efficient way to get rid of that food waste than humans, so maybe they wouldn't need bathrooms.
I say we push them harder, hard enough that they mandate single person unisex bathrooms, with the fancy auto room washing function they have in Japan. Then I can finally crap in peace.
I will continue to ask these morons if they’ve ever heard of homosexuality. There have been people attracted to other people they see in the bathroom since people started peeing together. Gender does not define sexuality, and neither gender nor sexuality define pedophilia.
To them homosexuality is a disease too. This one is just easier for them to justify at the moment. Once this battle is won they'll absolutely move onto non hetero sexualities.
I mean if she wants us to break her legs, who are we really to deny her?
Until we figure out humanoid robots all people are biological and trans women are women, so....
This Mace lady will do anything for attention. She once spray painted her own sidewalk to create a false flag antifa harassment narrative.
She wants to diddle kids and this is her path to doing so
yknow its funny, because if you really wanted to, you could argue that the very pretense of being trans is a biological factor, since there must be something beyond what is just "social norms and rules" determing gender. Such that trans people are technically, biological women.
Just not physically. So the correct way to write this would actually be "women determined to be such as by the definition of the classical physical definition, plus the correspondingly accurate neurotypical construction that tends to align with the concept of a woman more broadly"
just rolls right off of the tongue.
Just not physically.
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
Trans people change frequently are changing their biology to match their gender.
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
FOREWARNING: highly philosophical bits incoming. Don't read into anything i say too heavily lol.
this was my argument exactly, except a little bit backwards. I think people are in some capacity, a little bit too focused on the physical nature of things, because the physical body is quite literally not the determining factor here. It's also a bit of the paradoxical nature of gender dysphoria.
My argument basically TL;DRs into "trans people are actually physically separated from their birth sex, rather than mentally separated from their physical birth sex"
the only reason the physical body is relevant here is because i consider it similar to other physical deformations. At birth or not, the physical body is not perfect, biology is not perfect, whether or not the physical sex or the neurological sex developed independently of the other is entirely irrelevant to what the actual perceived sex of the individual is. If we're going to take one source as the true source, it's probably not going to be the physical one, for various reasons, it's going to be the neurological one.
The very fact that the existence of this separation causing problems with things like dysphoria, i think demonstrates that it is not the physical concept that matters, it is the neurological one.
TL;DR TL;DR if we're going to adhere to an authoritative source of what determines the gender/neurological sex of an individual, following the neurological path seems like both, the path of least resistance, and most likely functional outcome you could come to. Both because neurology is very confusing and difficult (otherwise this would be a solved problem, one way or the other) and also because the body is inherently imperfect, and relatively trivial to adapt.
I really just don't think there's any legitimacy in the physical body in this context, even though it's a huge pain point, i would argue that's a secondary effect of the neurological function, rather than a primary function of the experience itself. I could theoretically get a full sex reassignment surgery. Which might change my physical appearance, but there's very little that would do for my neurological existence. Therefore, i would argue i am still my original gender, even though my sex has changed. I.E. trans people, are by default the correct gender, their physical sex for whatever reason, is separated from their gender, causing the issue. Therefore you cannot conceptualize this issue as a "mental dysfunction" at all, completely destroying the entire conservative conceptualization of trans people.
I think that's what KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com was trying to say.
If you had transition surgery and therefor you couldn't make use of a urinal, could you make the argument that the bathrooms are not fair and equal for you and therefor unconstitutional?
I’m pretty sure men’s rooms have toilets in them, but it’s been several years since I’ve been in one so I’m not sure
Menopause is going to be her karma.
Oh irrational fear and tribalistic othering, is there no asinine bullshit you won't stoop to, repeatedly?
isn't that special?/s.. Now you have to give a DNA sample to take piss. Too much trouble. I think I'll just go piss on your leg.
Biological cripples?
She looks like the kind of person that cusses you out when you get her order right.
So much noise around this shit... Just extend the disabled toilet for trans users as well.
I don't understand why it's necessary for trans people to have a specific place for them to go, like, at all. We have been using public bathrooms for the last hundred years. It's never been a problem before, and it's not a problem now. This entire thing is manufactured outrage about a problem that doesn't exist.
Being trans is not a disability unless asshole bigots make it one.
Race isn't biological.
Edit: I will leave the original comment, but as I realized after a conversation in this thread, unclear humor in dark times is in poor taste. I don't support either sign, and I deeply want everyone to be able to freely express who they are and how they feel without discrimination or fear. Things are scary for our trans relations, and now is not the time to be unclear about one's support. My apologies.
Thanks to @Incandemon@lemmy.ca for their understanding and generosity of spirit for taking the time to state what should have been obvious to me. Honest mistake yall.