Trump confirms he will declare national emergency to carry out mass deportations
Trump confirms he will declare national emergency to carry out mass deportations
Trump confirms he will declare national emergency to carry out mass deportations
Hello. I'm from Germany and I have bad news for you. If our own history taught me anything, it's this: When there is a critical mass of citizens (including military personnel) who are willing to ignore common societal values and at the same time there is a corrupt justice system which can just bend the law to their will, there is very little in the way to full scale fascism. You guys have the groundwork for this right in front of your face. Your supreme court is only inches away from fulfilling that role and the last election showed that a majority of people are already blindsided enough to wholeheartedly believe the bullshit that they are being fed.
So please don't take this lightly. Democracy is not for granted and it can be taken away. It's a slow process up to a point where things fall in place and then it happens very quickly. In Germany the rise of the Nazis didn't happen over night. Warning signs were there from the first world war on, and the slow erosion of society along with economic factors was a key element. Hitler himself was widely regarded as a loud mouthed clown with little chance to actually accomplish anything.
The erosion part has been going on in the US for decades now. This time, most of the puzzle pieces needed are already in place.
And about the "they are incompetent, it won't be that bad" argument. They don't need competence to break things when they are in power. Breaking things is precisely what these people are looking for. Destruction of democratic values, economic instability, fear, poverty, chaos and social unrest are the key to more power. You just need to look at the designated cabinet positions. Those candidates were specifically chosen to fuck things up in the worst way imaginable. This is not a coincidence. This is a recipe taken right from the fascist's handbook.
A lot of us know and agree.
We are the ones without any power.
You are correct, and those of us who aren't fucking morons have known this since even before he came into power the first time. We have a lot of horrible and/or apathetic people. Democracy is worthless if the populace is uninformed or doesn't participate. Now it's dead here.
Education should be free, even for the kids if the neighbor you don't like.
Of course it's not free, it costs tax money, but it's okay. Id rather my neighbors had free education, then maybe I'd like them.
The problem is this is the US. This is the world's most major superpower. This is the nation whose companies fed and propped up the Nazis. Because what little of democracy there was in the US is now certainly going to fall, it's going to drag the whole world with it. Too many shitheads in too many countries, including Germany, will be willing to follow suit, and all the major superpowers left will be all too willing to prop them up with little to no regard for what rules they won't break in the process. We might even see the US trying to strong-arm nations in the same way China has been trying to strong-arm Taiwan. At a time where the surveillance and control tools at their disposal are at a dystopian high. At a time ramping up for chaos due to major environment and resource collapses that we have been foreseeing for decades.
Absolutely. The tendencies are visible all over the world and there will be grave consequences for all of us. However, there are differences. In Germany for example after the horrors of WW2 the political system was specifically designed to prevent something like this from happening again (ironically the creation of the german constitution was heavily influenced by the US). Which sounds like a good thing at first, but what happened in the last decade was basically this: The right wing parties became stronger at every election and as a result there were coalitions forged between opposing parties to prevent right wing parties from taking over power. And this in term lead to years of standstill in political decision making, dragging down the country, because opposing parties tend to block each others ideas. Which in turn made the right wing even stronger, because they now had someone to blame for the resulting mess. Germany and by extension Europe as well have a lot of bureaucracy, which on one side gives a bit of a shield against hostile takeovers, but has a downside of inefficiency in acting to protect democracy too. It's not looking too good, but Trump's habit of pissing off his allies might have a net positive effect of uniting people against this bullying and encouraging them to get their shit together. But I think it's to early to tell. Could as well sway in the other direction and produce Trump bootlicking countries like you said.
About surveillance technologies, indeed the possibilities set our current situation apart from when Nazis came to power in the past. It's absolutely crazy to witness how a commercial surveillance industry disguised as ad services (Google/Meta/...) created a monster that makes Orwell's 1984 look like a children's book, and most people still don't even understand the implications in order to realize what they're up against. From a european perspective, there is an upside in that at least for now the EU is actively trying to limit the power of those mega corporations. These processes however are chugging along at snail pace due to the aforementioned bureaucracy. Slow, but steady. Which is at least something.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. It's such a broad topic and there are no easy answers.
the thing that infuriates me is not so much that it will happen, but that people will not believe that it is happening or has happened
Wonder what one can do about this?
There's a lot one can do. This is a nice starter:
I would have framed a few things differently, so here's my take:
Bracing for "Wait, I didn't think you meant me?!?!?"
"Cool, a leopard! Can I pet it?"
[Scene opens on a wide, desolate savanna at dusk. The camera slowly pans over a leopard lying under a tree, its large body barely able to move. The sun is setting, casting a cold, dim light over the scene. Soft wind rustles through the dry grass. The leopardās eyes are dull, its breathing labored.]
Narrator (soft, somber voice): In the wild, leopards are meant to stalk, to hunt, to climb. But for some, this is no longer possible. These are the leopards of the forgotten savanna... the ones who can no longer live the life they were born to lead.
[Cut to a close-up of another leopard, this one lying next to a watering hole, panting heavily. The camera lingers on its enormous, bloated body, its paws barely able to reach the ground. The leopardās eyes seem vacant, devoid of the wild spark they once had.]
Narrator: Overfed and unable to move, these leopards have been left to a slow, painful existence. They can no longer hunt their prey, no longer climb the trees to escape danger, no longer feel the thrill of the chase. They are trapped in their own bodies.
[Cue the soft, mournful opening chords of "Angel" by Sarah McLachlan. The camera slowly pans over a third leopard, sluggishly trying to rise, but its massive weight prevents it from standing. It lets out a heavy sigh, its once-strong legs buckling beneath it.]
Narrator: They are the forgotten victims of a world that has abandoned them. Too fat to run, too weak to fight... These leopards are slowly fading, one breath at a time. They need your help.
[Cut to a shot of a leopard staring out over the savanna. The camera lingers on its face, eyes half-closed, its expression one of quiet resignation.]
Narrator: For just $3 a day, you can provide the care and support these leopards so desperately need. A donation will help give them the chance to live a life of dignity. Help them find their way back to the wild they were meant to roam.
[The music swells as the camera fades to black, and the words "Your donation can make a difference" appear in white text on the screen.]
Narrator (whispering): Please, donāt let them suffer in silence. The time to act is now.
[The music fades out, and the SPCA logo appears in the corner, along with a toll-free number and website for donations.]
Next up: arson attack on US Congress. And then the Enabling Act.
Didnāt the Canadian burn the Whitehouse down once or something?
Twice.
Don't make us come down there a third time, I swear to Gord.
Canadians conservatives burnt down their own parliament too.
We already had our enabling act, the Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling.
Yep. All of this talk about the makeup of Congress, and having an opposition party becomes moot when you hand power to fascists.
My crazy prediction is that trump will try to duplicate the burning of the Reichstag. Except, in typical fashion, he will do so in a comically inept fashion. He'll try to burn down the Reichstag, and he'll actually succeed! Unfortunately, he'll burn down the Reichstag...the actual Reichstag, not the US capital, but the present-day German parliament building.
Like the German version of Nazis before them, they aren't coming for their biggest target first. They're coming for their political opposition, the "abortionists", the atheists, the drug users, the mentally ill...
RFK Jr.:
"Iām going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need ā three or four years if they need itā to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,"
Re-education camps, huh.
"prepared to declare a national emergency and will use military assets to reverse the Biden invasion through a mass deportation program."
- TrumpĀ repostedĀ Fitton's comment Monday with the caption, "TRUE!!"
I donāt even know what to say. Iām gobsmacked to depression daily that youāre ok with this.
But EGG PRICES! The economy!
And he's such a strong leader...
(I am paraphrasing actual interviews our local networks did with college students)
I think we need to start using strongman in conversation more for the people who don't know what it means.
I think those colleges need to stop charging tuition. Clearly, their education is worthless.
Hey, the democratic party wasn't close enough to the workers so there was no alternative..
But Obama wore a tan suit!
Where were you when America was violated by the terrorist fist jab?
Also, I will never forget how Michelle Obama sullied this country with her bare arms....
Iām gobsmacked to depression daily that youāre ok with this.
People who sat at home or pretended like they could wash their hands of it by voting 3rd party are OK with this. I'm sure as shit not.
Hope everyone in the military is going to be ready because this psycho is going to be calling on you...to do every little thing he wants.
Need to shut down those protesting against him? Better be there.
Need to start beating down people who voted against him? Better be there.
Nothing you'll do will be for the sake of this country's entire interests, it'll be for his interests.
That's why I'm hoping the military does its job and protects the country and constitution from him.
Well if he has his way, he's going to be able to remove general at will
The military has a uniform code of justice they have to follow. Police have qualified immunity, but still sometimes get arrested. Prison riot control have no regulations on behavior or identification. Look for that group to become the main go to for anything that 'needs taking care of'.
Look for that group to become the main go to for anything that 'needs taking care of'.
Or just Proud Boys and other paramilitary thugs.
No more migrant workers, they still need slave labor, make everything illegal, arrest the poors, put prisoners to work for pennies...wont be shocked if that is the plan.
It wonāt even be that subtle, theyāll just use unmarked border patrol like last time
So, the Orange Turd plans on suspending the US Constitution and using the so-called national emergency to go for the full power grab. I certainly hope the US military upholds the pledge to protect the US Constitution.
The US president is the commander in chief and the US military is subservient to US president, never mind how many of them come from the MAGA cult bubble themselves. The military is a poor safeguard for democracy.
The oath to protect the US Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies takes priority. You are correct in one regard, it will depend on the military leadership and soldiers.
We'll see. The military is under pretty clear orders to defend the constitution from threats both foreign and domestic. Trump ia domestic threat and a fascist, and fascists flip the truth upside down, so he'll accuse immigrants of being a domestic threat as a way of trying to convince the military to violate their oath. He'll certainly replace legitimate generals with spineless lackey loyalists, but the oath isn't to obey generals, it's to protect the constitution, and it goes from top to bottom.
This will be a trickier test of the military's quality than WW2.
There are not enough ICE officers to conduct mass deportation in red states, let alone blue ones. Trump will require cooperation of local police.
If he uses the military in Blue states, it's an obvious attack on the 10th Amendment. It's also illegal to use the military for domestic police work.
We can bet on incompetence for now. Trump needs to grow ICE to a large size before he's even able to conduct a large scale deportation plan of any kind. Deploying the National Guard would be a faux pas, but that's probably the workaround else need to prepare for legally.
Oh no, its illegal to use the military for domestic police work? Deploying the National Guard would be a "faux pas"?
Well, I'm sure that will stop him for sure!
Its the next political bulwark and where we rally next. If Trump runs over that bulwark, then we make plans afterwards.
But the Military will NOT want to be seen going house-to-house deporting Puerto Rican American Citizens. I know there's a lot of racists out there, but if they do that, we just take some pictures and the national level outrage and blatant racism on the troop's faces will be shown for everyone. And trust me, if a mass deportation order were invoked, 100% legal US Citizens will be swept up in the blatantly racist attack.
These people cannot tell the difference from an illegal Mexican, a legal Haitian or a US Citizen Puerto Rican. I'm serious. So that's no longer a Trump-specific thing at that point. That's commanders and soldiers who will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
Stoking a violent insurrection while plotting a coup violated a few laws and norms, too.
Trump will require cooperation of local police.
Plenty of pigs are already on his side, and would help him with this willingly.
Also, as president, SCOTUS has already ruled that he can pretty much do what he wants as long as it's an "official" act.
Plenty of pigs are already on his side, and would help him with this willingly.
In some red states, yes. But that's largely in rural areas. I'm not sure if even a city in a deep-red state like Houston would cooperate with Trump.
Its not up to the Police in any case. It'd be likely up to the local Attorney's General.
Also, as president, SCOTUS has already ruled that he can pretty much do what he wants as long as itās an āofficialā act.
If Trump wants to personally come down and deport Mexicans one by one, I'd love to see it. But otherwise, Trump is going to write a thing that likely won't make sense. Local police won't get any money for immigration issues and will complain about funding and long hours. Then all the shit will collapse unless Congress gives more money for a deportation program.
Plenty-o-pigs sounds like a great police hookup app
I'm sure they can put a call out to anyone with a gun and a hatred of immigrants (legal or otherwise) to volunteer to help out. Maybe they can even all have matching bands around their arm so they know who are helping.
Yeah that's called a US Army Private.
What you're ignoring is how fucking dumb an 18Y Old with a gun is. There's a fucking reason we don't use them in US Territories. When the bloodshed starts, it will be because dumbass high-school dropouts opened fire in an American neighborhood.
What you're also ignoring is that US Army commanders know this. They know how dumb their recruits are. Its the job of the commander to make sure the troop under them are put on missions where they have the correct and proper training. A "serious" Army Commander would refuse any immigration / customs job, because US Military troops are simply NOT trained for this. US Military are trained to kill people and should only be used to kill people. That's why we focus on using them outside of the USA.
Like, seriously. Do you expect a 18Y old high school dropout to handle a warrant over a house correctly?
A couple federal judges have opined that he can declare an invasion on US land. This unlocks a lot of powers for him if they interpret the laws in their favor.
You say that. But the minute people's private homes get invaded by US Troops, US citizen's opinions will immediately change.
Republicans are strongly pro-4th Amendment and are distrustful of the police as well. Getting wrapped up in police raids just because you live in the wrong neighborhood will piss off a LOT of Republicans. And a mass program that forces citizens to ICE / Police / Military into your house (be it a massive push for warrants, or some other mass-scale law) would be a significant number of breaks with the Constitution.
Remember: the Republicans are "Deep State" fuckers who distrust federal officials. Do you really think they'd be cool with orders that let police into their private homes?
Hell override the posse comatatus act and use federal military troops.
If it gets that far, and I'm not convinced it will, Troops aren't trained for immigration issues.
Do you think 18 year old dumbass Privates and Corporals know the difference between a Puerto Rican US Citizen and an illegal Mexican? Do you think US Troops have any training on police actions? Lawyers or courts?
That's a disaster waiting to happen. We use troops rarely because they're dumbasses with a gun. We give them exceptional fighting training, but no training on finer details of policing.
You know what amazes me? That any vaguely brown person who voted for Trump didn't seem to think that even if they are literally carrying their papers at all times and easily able to prove their citizenship, they are gonna be harassed constantly for the next four years. With hopeful some state exceptions, they are going to have to be very careful to speak only 'Murican in public and suppress public display of non-American cultures. They are literally going to be having to watch their backs every day.
WTF.
I imagine the population of New Mexico is going to swell quite a bit in the next four years.
The guy who couldn't build A WALL is going to orchestrate a mass deportation on millions and millions of people? Ok. Lol. Also, what happens when fruit/vegetables start to rot on the vine because they don't have anyone who will take their shit wages to do it.
he will 100% focus on āDemocrat citiesā before he ever rounds up farm workers.
Again, he ain't gunna do shit. He's all talk. I'm not here for the doomer end of democracy shit either.
I stand firmly by this statement: "Politics are never as good as they seem and they are never as bad as they seem."
We bail out all the farmers as we've always done.
Every single bad thing about this country, from now on, will be prepended with "Biden"
It shall be law.
I'm not actually sure if I'm joking.
It was weird to watch donvict try to make that a thing in near real time, with "Bidenflation" and "Bigration" or some such shit. This stuff works on the clapping seals that make up his base, though.
As a Bi-man, a bigration sounds great! Would be great to have more bis around. Mono-sexuals are just weird, imo.
Obama? Thanks.
Males? Buttery.
Biden? Did that.
Right. Let's not blame Trump or the electorate that put him in power.
Well. The chips are down. Your move Generals.
For what it's worth I think there's going to be a ton of pushback. To the point where using the military for this becomes infeasible.
They already planning court marshal and putting military leaders on trail for their roll in Afghanistan. Which is all a cover for Trump to remove the generals and install only loyal members to the military who will do trump bidding.
Generals aren't selected by him personally though. Not unless congress completely folds to him. Remember one Senator holding up all of the promotions? That actually frees up military leadership to appoint replacements themselves. Within reason of course, they aren't putting a private in charge of a brigade. But it does mean that with the tiniest bit of cover from Congress an officer corp loyal to the Constitution can block Trump's agenda and make any purge take literal years to bear fruit. Not to complete it mind you, that will take even longer, just to cobble together enough of a chain of command to get a unit to actually deploy domestically.
That said the military are masters of malicious compliance. There's a really big chance that resistance in the ranks looks like the generals ordering their troops out of the barracks but not taking any weapons because that would violate Posse Comitatus. Then fulfilling Trump's orders by politely asking anyone they see for their papers. They wouldn't arrest, detain, or chase anyone though, because that would be law enforcement and violate Posse Comitatus. They would of course studiously maintain an armed QRF on base just in case anyone finds the invasion of enemy aliens Trump is going to declare an emergency over. You might even see them get used against Cartels at the border in an attempt to appease Trump without clearly violating Posse Comitatus.
I do acknowledge it's entirely possible the generals fold and put the onus on the lower ranks to ignore illegal orders. Which would destroy the military much faster as enlistments drop through the floor, stop loss is engaged, and desertion skyrockets.
I sure hope we don't need military readiness in the near future.....oh.....wait .....
Yeah if Trump actually follows through on this the US military is going to take decades to recover. But that's the point. Both for daddy Putin, and American owners of Private Military Companies. They've been trying to privatize the grunts since 1990.
Hmm, it's almost like some third party have had an interest in destabilizing all structures of power in the US š¤
Saw this one coming. He'll do the same to justify ending elections.
100% this is a trial for emergency actions to end elections.
Even if we see (likely) āact first, let it wind through the courts later,ā Iād expect there to be a substantial number of refusals.
Members of the military have an obligation to refuse illegal orders. I am neither in the military nor a lawyer, so I canāt go too deep on that.
I have no doubt this is his first step in ferreting out any military leadership who holds loyalty to the constitution over him personally. Whether this particular plan is blocked or not, it lets him clear out anyone who won't follow his orders without question going forward.
What does America look like to the world if the most powerful military in the world refuses to follow orders from it's elected government.
These idiots are going to turn the whole world upside down. Other nations military alliances will shift. China will swoop in to establish stability in it's region of interest, Taiwan, slowing down our AI race (Biden tried to help get us started on that with the CHIPS act, thanks Brandon). We have a head start on quantum computing research, for now. But Europe is leading on physics and fusion reactors. But science is for nerds, so Europe will lose support from it's most powerful ally leaving it open to Russia, who isn't leading in much of anything these days and could really just use a win. First they'll take the breadbasket because soldiers need to eat. And then continue to disrupt, weaken and push. Maybe start by cutting some major undersea internet cables. That's got to be difficult to fix again, and again. Israel continues to make itself the enemy of the middle east so, America does what America does, go stomp around it's old stomping grounds. Shock and Awe Y'all! Don't worry about those recruitment numbers, they're just a phase, the poor will still join. China and Russia keep pushing out, taking control of shipping routes and resources, slowly tighten the noose. China is allowed to keep pushing into 'shithole' African countries, raping them of their resources. China pushes to AI and Quantum. Russia pushes to Fusion and Physics. Each resource will be dependent on the other. The new world order is in balance.
America dwindles. If we're lucky AI, or Fusion, will solve climate change before we go Venus.
But wait, up on the hill top! It's Trump, Donald be his name. He has been crowned God King Emperor of Burgers and Men. Aliens have landed on the Whitehouse lawn. They are... the Whites! Blonde haired and big blue eyes, the most powerful of all aliens in the known galaxy. Their women are red heads, not all of them, but enough to be worth the trouble. Then all true Americans will sing 'America, Fuck Yeah!' as they rise up into the glorious heavens above to live with alien Jesus.
šš»šŗšøšŗšøšš»š½ Peace Among Worlds!
The US military is actually surprisingly decentralized, with a lot of leeway and authority given directly to NCOs, and officers routinely getting ignored, circumvented, or subjected to malicious compliance if they even order something considered unreasonable, much less illegal. Also see: fragging. Malingering. Mutiny. Desertion. And the worst nightmare - Insider Threat. So much of the military runs purely off of trust, faith, and compliance to words on a page.
You think Don't Ask Don't Tell was actually fully complied with? Sentries already fall asleep while at their post, willfully, without needing to have any excuse other than being tired or disliking the watch officer. Roving patrols routinely miss rounds, don't actually pay attention or inspect anything, and practice what we call "blazing logs", that is, writing down "all conditions satisfactory" without actually looking at the conditions. Maintenance also gets blazed all the time - technicians just straight up not doing the required maintenance and writing down that they did, substituting unauthorized materials, or half-assing the maintenance. Paperwork just gets "lost", or never gets signed, never gets filed, never makes it to the intended recipient, just because the admin secretary doesn't feel like it. Information isn't entered into a system, including disciplinary or otherwise disqualifying stuff, because the admin or command likes you or needs you.
Purging the upper brass won't do anything to circumvent or "fix" any of that, it'll make it worse, because it'll incentivize the servicemembers to do it even more. The E-4 Mafia will straight up disappear when needed, entire supply chains will stop cold. Separation and disciplinary paperwork will just not get sent.
Everything will be a national emergency to pass any and everything they want to.
Yep, so why don't the Dems do the same things, but to actually benefit the average person?
I understand people are going to say, "Well, we have to respect decorum and the rule of law," but... How's that going for us? The GOP doesn't care, and we keep pretending they'll find the line they won't cross to accomplish their evil agenda...
So why can't the Dems break the rules to actually help the American people and show them they're willing to get things done? This isn't a "I gotcha" moment or praising the GOP, I just don't understand it beyond "they're the same party, one just pretends to care."
Short answer: the Supreme Court
Longer answer: National emergencies are perfectly reasonable to the SCOTUS when declared by a Republican but ridiculous overreach when done by a Democrat and the SCOTUS will use any opportunity to neuter the power of the federal government where a Democrat is in charge.
"So why don't they just try anyway?" you might ask. And the answer there is that the SCOTUS can do more than just say "you can't do that one thing anymore." They can use it as an excuse to block 100 other things that were either flying under the radar or were being challenged one-by-one previously and tied up in appeals.
Biden tried to regulate CO2 through the EPA. The Supreme Court not only said he couldn't do that, but they concocted a brand new standard called the "Major Questions Doctrine" that basically says government agencies aren't allowed to implement any significant new regulations unless Congress explicitly authorizes them. And now all those under-the-radar regulations are falling like dominoes in the district courts with no path for appeal.
They tried with student loan debt and the courts blocked them at every turn. The courts are shaped to allow republican plans, because we have done these things in the past. Courts are more willing to reject things that haven't happened before.
How do we gum up the works?
You know the answer already, but I reckon you'll be too much of a coward to do it.
Prove me wrong.
Fred Hampton spent more time building coalitions then he did calling his own cowardly.
I suspect the powers that be will let this orange chucklefuck have a little fun but if he really starts eating into their profits and refuses to back off, he's going to have an accident.
Yeah, his plans are going to destroy the economy, and I'm pretty sure our corporate overlords won't like that.
They'll love it. They'll buy our country up for pennies on the dollar.
What if he threw a national emergency and no one paid attention?
where do you go if you have no papers? a stateless purgatory camp?
they're called concentration camps because they concentrate all "illegals" in one convenient location for "processing".
people will lie to you and say it's not possible. they will lie to you and tell you it would never come to that. they will lie to you and tell you citizens would never allow that to happen.
they lied to themselves for eight years and said never again.
It's happening again.
I'm past the point of caring, let the bread and circus commence. The American public, it seems, must learn shit the hard way.
...until he doesn't. Or changes his mind tomorrow. Or whatever.
Why the fuck are we still treating this guy as if he's anything more than a walking talking stream of consciousness?
Because he surrounds himself with people that are serious as a heart attack about their sick, freakish ideology.