Bernie Sanders doubles down that people are ‘angry’ with Dems after Pelosi said she didn’t ‘respect’ his remarks
Bernie Sanders doubles down that people are ‘angry’ with Dems after Pelosi critique
Honestly call or email the Democratic party offices and voice that you one hundred percent agree with Sanders.
I'm not upset Bernie was criticized - no one should be above a good-faith critique and ideas should be judged on merit as opposed to who says them. The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don't listen they are going to fail again.
The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don’t listen they are going to fail again.
They would rather fail than listen.
They would rather fail than listen sacrifice corporate donations
... if there are any more elections
Oh there’ll be elections. Just like Russia has elections, and Cuba.
I think the biggest issue was actually with messaging. Democrats were still pretty much relying on MSM which almost no young people watch.
I think that beyond what Sanders says what left needs are young people, true populists (as opposed to pseudopopulists ones like MAGA has) with progressive messages.
No, I would say an over reliance on mainstream media certainly hurts them, but their messaging still sucks. Just to go with examples Bernie provided here, how do you think the Democrats message that the economy is doing just great resonates with the 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, the 25% of elderly people who need to eke out a living on $15,000 a year or less, or the 20 million Americans working for less than $15/hour? It's a slap in the face to all of them. Messaging is not just getting the message out, but sending the right messages, and the Democrats whiffed hard on that front. They need to do some serious self-reflection and make some drastic changes to both the structure of the party and its platform if they want to do anything more than win the odd election for a single term when the GOP oversteps itself. Pelosi and the old ghouls that support her should all be kicked to the curb.
Based on his remarks, I won’t be shocked if he’s working on organizing a whole new political party that’s going to eventually supplant the Democratic Party altogether.
And if that’s what he’s doing, and he pulls it off, it’ll be a good thing, and I’ll probably register a political affiliation other than “no party/unaffiliated” for the first time in about 14 years.
These Conservative Democrats are so uninspiring that we'd allow Nazi level fascists to take over.
If this is the political reality, then it's the political reality that must be adapted to.
Centrists would rather lose.
Conservative democrats are republicans. The dems made their tent so big that it has lost all meaning. I dont recall dem politicians ever going to the right of repubilcans in the past. It would have seemed impossible. Biden/Harris normalized it.
Pelosi's attitude is a big reason why
She believes voters work for her and need to do what she wants or she scolds them, afterwards they'll listen.
Bernie believes the best way to get elected is to show voters you'll help them.
One method is very effective, it's just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
If an elected official put the average voter first, where does that leave the wealthy?
Not first? Completely unacceptable, Thurston get my mink we're leaving.
Bernie is one of the few remaining politicians in our country who are in politics as a service vs a career. I wouldn't be surprised if after every time he gets elected he consoles himself, "this'll be the last time you need to run, this is the cycle where we'll fix American politics and you can go back to your dream of opening an ice cream shop."
One method is very effective, it's just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
Slight disagreement. They pay a lot of money so candidates like that don't make it into a primary.
The Pelosi interview is honestly batshit insane. She doesn't see the election as a rejection of the party, thinks the Democrats are doing well, Kamala Harris did everything right, Sanders is wrong, and then she made some backhanded comments about how Biden should have dropped out earlier. I know some of that is spin she that she has to say, but it's still deeply out of touch.
Kamala Harris did everything right
She presented her message of 'vote for me to keep things the same' flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don't want things to stay the same.
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
Nope. Her plan was "I am going to lower taxes on the middle class and provide additional help n these specific ways". But she presented that plan in a very flawed way.
That you were not aware of her actual message is partly your fault and partly her fault.
So long as she can keep trading on insider information I seriously doubt that she cares.
"do you really think that the Democratic party is going to the mat… and fighting for you?"
Forget about me, or the working class, the Democratic party doesn't actually fight for anything.
2000 election stolen in Florida? Ho hum, oh well... we'll get 'em next time! (2004 election stolen in Ohio...)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa
https://www.wired.com/2008/03/the-mysterious/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-it-guru-dies-in-plane-crash/
You rightly nominated a Supreme Court Justice but the Senate refuses to give them a hearing? Oh well! Guess we'll just have to win the 2016 election...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination
They couldn't even prosecute Trump for the crimes he committed. I wonder how many people that stayed home would have shown up for a party that showed it can hold rich criminals accountable. They should have used the 14th when they were discussing it, but decided not to for no known reason.
Pelosi is the best example of what's wrong with Dems. Literally enriched herself off the pain and suffering of the working class and poor.
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not "enrich herself".
Bernie is literally quoted in the article saying "Nancy is a friend of mine".
The main thing she's known for is rampant unabashed insider trading. If that isn't enriching herself then I don't know what is.
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not “enrich herself”.
🤣
🤨
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not “enrich herself”.
Are we playing the "it's her spouse who is the stock investor" game?
https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361
Because if this is how one accumulates wealth, it certainly sounds like it's "off the pain and suffering of the working class and poor."
D.C.-based nonprofit OpenSecrets.org estimated Pelosi's net worth at $115 million in 2020, a rise of $41 million since 2004 - the first year OpenSecrets began tracking members' personal finances.
Paul Pelosi's company, Financial Leasing Services, has been highly successful in its investments in recent years and those investments have included shares in major firms such as Disney, Amazon and Google.
The New York Post estimated that the Pelosis had made between $5.6 million and $30.4 million between 2007 and 2020 through capital gains and dividends from investments in five tech companies - Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft - based on public disclosures.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong as they continually shoot themselves in their collective dick.
I, for one, will be writing in his name, voting third party or not at all until they give me a genuinely progressive candidate. Until then, fuck them, and fuck this country.
One of the biggest things about being a leftist is being right about stuff before it's considered polite.
It's like being Cassandra, the Greek seer who can see the future but is cursed to forever be not believed.
What is needed is a socialist organization of voters who together have enough voting power to make our break a Democratic representatives career.
Now, imagine this sentiment among thousands of people, across multiple states. That’s how you lose an election.
If two partys are not representing my interests at all, the winning strategy is to make my vote about punishing the one that didnt represent my interests when it was in power. This way it will have to adapt to recognize my interests when it needs my vote to get back to power.
By just always voting whatever party claims to be the less evil for me, all i do is create a race to the bottom of evil, as i make sure that my vote does not need to be fought for.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong
Nope. Neither Biden nor Harris never once told Bernie he is "wrong".
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he'd fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans' when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That's not to say that policies don't matter, they absolutely do, but if you've got great policies and shit messaging, then you're not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. "They're killing the babies!" is way more catchy and effective than "Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can." Yeah that's not reaching everyone, is it? And you can't scream it like "They're killing the babies!"
And that's just an example of policy that was chosen by few states', which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can't communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter "Democrats hate America!" or stuff like that?
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past.
I'm very much on the "Dems fucked this up train" but you're getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or "You know I'm VP, not P right now, right?"
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.
Uh... We all know Trump is bad you're not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris's campaign sucked ass. If you don't understand or refuse to accept that then there's no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn't exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you're not saying anything
I'm not defending Harris' overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I'll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
No Nancy. You and your DNC are wrong and that is why you lost the presidency, senate, and house.
Fake party.
Clearly this loss lies solely on the shoulders of black and Latino voters, as well as the evil Bernie Bros and the progressives.
We just need to go further to the right next election while continuing to raise record dark pac money contributions. Then we can win!
Pelosi is wrong. But she is not the owner of the DNC. The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters. The DNC is not a person or monolithic entity.
I am not postmateDumbass and can't speak for them, but Nacy Pelosi serves as a superdelegate, meaning she wasn't elected to her position in the DNC. Blaming the voters for her presence there is wrong (however, blaming the voters for electing other selfish, poor-performing delegates would be fair game to me). I would guess their frustration is with the system which created this problem. If the people aren't being heard year after year the group should be replaced by something that actually fucking works.
The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters.
I'm afraid thats not entirely true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
Also, party leadership constantly changes the rules to suit the election cycle. They are a private entity and can run primaries however they want. In the DNC vs Sanders case, they successfully argued that they can elect canddates in a smoke filled back room if they so chose, and had no legal duty to fairness or in representing the will of the voters whatsoever.
Pelosi’s response kinda proves that the DNC is just the other side of the shit coin running the funhouse arcade game of American democracy
Big bussiness is scared that if given the chance bernie would win and they cant risk that.
Let's not wrap it in some mysterious "big businesses" it is really oligarchs vs us, they take more and more of wealth making all of us poorer and then use media (which they control) to say it is because of minorities our lives are so shitty.
I highly recommend On Freedom book by Timothy Snyder which talks how we are being manipulated to go against our best interest.
I think everyone should read it and be aware as things won't improve unless we start fighting back.
Let's not obfuscate with "oligarchs" either.
They're the bourgeoisie. It's the same struggle now as it was 100 years ago.
Honestly call or email the Democratic party
Do it because it will be cathartic, but don't do it expecting them to listen. Progressives need a new tack if we're actually going to save humanity from ourselves. (Spoiler, we probably won't)
. (Spoiler, we probably won't)
Shes nodding to the corporste over lords. She's saying:
don't worry, we will never betray your riches kisses feet we will fight for your continued market dominance and wealth inequality
She is a corporate overlord. The old witch couldn’t care less about normal, poor people.
She deserves to be treated like a queen of france.
Well I don't respect Pelosi, so I feel like we've got balance here
It is a rare moment when you can pinpoint issues that Bernie Sanders was on the wrong side of, even with the benefit of hindsight. Because of that, I have more faith in Bernie Sanders' wisdom than any other politician at the moment.
I'm not American, and I can't vote in US elections. Bernie Sanders is one of few US political figures that I respect the opinions of.
I don't know what Pelosi is smoking, but it has to be some good shit.
She's smoking corporate cock, just like the rest of Congress.
Bernie is the only politician I can think of who I has NEVER lied. In that respect he is the antithesis of Treason Trump.
Pelosi should just gtfo and become a stock broker. She's unusually good at trading stocks for some obscure reason.
(The reason is insider trading)
As a stock broker she would be subject to the law against insider trading.
I think you mean barrel shroud broker.
This is where Pelosi proves Bernie right just by talking.
We know they don't respect Sanders.
Exhibit A: Picking Hilary.
They RFK'd him.
Members of the DNC were emailing each other about how best to undermine Sanders' presidential campaign after promising to remain neutral. Democrats, if you want to inspire voters, let them pick the fucking candidate!
It wasn't disrespect, it was outright fear.
They're afraid that someone is going to get into that position that can't be bought and is going to grandstand to the public to ask for the things that donors won't like.
Corporations are spending a lot of money to own the voices in the government, they don't want to make any rich people angry.
Will be writing my reps later today and I sent a few bucks to Bernie since I figure what better way to tell a politician they're barking up the right tree?
I know online petitions are generally cringe but if there was one backing up Bernie's stance here and telling the Dems to get their heads out of their own asses, I'd sign it in a heartbeat. If other people feel similarly, maybe we should get the ball rolling? Best case Dems get the message, worst case we waste our time and nothing changes, right?
There's always https://democrats.org/contact-us/
worst case is nothing changes and you get put on a donor list and passed around to politicians you dont even like.
Pelosi needs to fade away into the sunset
Lmfao imagine being aligned with pelosi and thinking you're right.
I don't respect Pelosi.
Sanders is right, and people are right to be.
lol. Don’t fuck with Bernie.
Anyone got the DNC's number?
It was hard to find but I believe it is 202-863-8000
https://www.eriecountydems.org/democratic-national-committee-dnc/
Jaime Harrison is the DNC chair. https://democrats.org/jaime-harrison/
In my experience shit rolls downhill, so start at the top.
Join the discussion at !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world . It was a neutral space but now that we're in fascist America neutrality is no longer acceptable.
The working class need a voice and the DNC is so completely clueless, so that communication needs to happen like an avalanche for anything to change.
Yeah the RNC
When future generations (of alien colonists on our dead world) update the story of Cassandra, the main character will be changed to Bernie
Things are going to get vicious for sure.
Political parties are private institutions and should not be in a position to shape American policies at all. Having a two party system allows centralized control over everyone else in the given party. If elected officials feel pressured to fall in line then they're not fighting for the American people, they're fighting for their own political party.
So now I join the ranks calling Pelosi removed?
No, call her an out of touch wealthy elite who should have helped some actual leftist win two decades ago.
I mean they lost what 10mil votes? I'm with sanders they need to fix their shit. Get real. They're going to run Harris again with slightly more left wing policies, Republicans will point out she's an insincere flip flop and destroy her again. But it will be the DNC not the Republicans that setup the loss.
Did that Wednesday past.
Honestly call or email the Democratic party offices and voice that you one hundred percent agree with Sanders.
People are stupid. They are mad at democrats so they allowed a fascist to take power so they will never have another free election again and things will only change for the worse with no chance of them getting better.
Non voters in this election were as dumb as Trump voters.
Don't get me wrong, I get blaming the voters because this was not the election to take a stand. I used to tell people to suck it up, vote for Harris and then hammer your complaints until the DNC gets the point. However, looking at how the DNC has responded to their loss I don't think there would ever come a time where people could voice their issues with the democratic party. Eventually the dems would've suffered such a catastrophic loss because they don't listen to their voters and keep drifting to the right.
The voters don't own an allegiance to the democratic party. The party is supposed to get the vote by actually representing the voters. That is not happening and ultimately that is not the fault of the voter, that fault lies solely with the party. They didn't listen back in 2016 when they lost, they didn't listen back in 2020 when they did win (people didn't vote for Biden, they voted against Trump) and so far it seems they're not going to listened this time as well. You can't blame the voters when the dems are the ones not listening.
Yeah, the outcome sucks. Yes, America would've been better off if Harris had won. But even if Harris had won all it would've done is kick the buck to the next election because the underlying issues within the democratic party would've remained. Nothing actually gets better until the DNC gets better. And if the DNC doesn't get any better tear the entire electoral system down and get real parties who would represent the people.
I don't think there would ever come a time where people could voice their issues with the democratic party. Eventually the dems would've suffered such a catastrophic loss because they don't listen to their voters and keep drifting to the right
Oh hey look it's the opinion that for the last 2 years would get you nuked on votes getting only upvoted now!
Been yelling this since Joe "only running now to stop Trump" didn't fucking prop anyone up during his term to run, fucking obvious they dont care because they know the other side is fascism and thought that was enough because they're out-of-touch rich cunts
I can be mad at both.
Democrats could have tried to improve the lot of the working classes.
People could have voted not to throw their neighbors to the wolves.
Nothing actually gets better until the DNC gets better
You do know that the DNC is not a person right? It's not a static monolithic entity either. Tulsi Gabbert used to be in the DNC executive committee. The delegates elected by the primary voters control the DNC and will always control the DNC which changes membership constantly. So the only way to change that is through primary election choices. To change things people need to understand how things actually work now.
Eventually the dems would’ve suffered such a catastrophic loss because they don’t listen to their voters and keep drifting to the right.
Except that Dems stopped "drifting to the right" 20 years ago. The are merely drifting left too slowly. Biden was the most progressive president since LBJ 60 years ago.
But even if Harris had won all it would’ve done is
It would have resulted in tax increases on billionaires and corporations, which is the critical battleground of wealth inequality,. Would a more progressive candidate done this better? Yes. But stop pretending this is nothing. Taxes are 90% of the ballgame.
Centrists believe that as long as the party keeps moving to the right, it can never fail; only be failed by the stupid voters they hate.
Guess you now have to organize to topple the government since 4 years from now you won't get to vote anymore ¯(ツ)/¯
Where has this version of Bernie been for the last 4 years?
All sides are using Bernie to bash Democrats, and I don't like it.
Dems need some bashing and Bernie is the official spokesman of disaffected Dem voters so he is perfect for the job.
All sides are using Bernie to bash Democrats, and I don’t like it.
On what basis would you not like this?
Cunt... the American unfriendly version.
Pelosi is Democrat leadership. She is responsible for the supreme court running rampant, kamala, and the war on drugs still being a thing. She deserves to be hung as a traitor to the republic. Furious. We are furious at her. I'm angry at my dog for pissing on the couch. I'm furious at Pelosi.
You do know Pelosi stepped down from her leadership position almost exactly 2 years ago, right?
If you start hanging people trying to run the government no good people will want to be in the government.
it is a feedback loop for national bloodshed.
I frankly think that while Bernie should be right, he's not. His strategy would have also failed, though I'd rather that have been the attempt.
Simple fact of the matter is that out of 10 major countries with elections this year, all the incumbents lost. Didn't matter whether they were left or right or whatever, they lost. Democrats were doomed by being the incumbents at a time when just so many are unhappy with how things currently are, and people are eager to change everything for a shot. Between having the pandemic become endemic everywhere, economies struggling to digest the massive COVID stimulus, supply chains still off due to both recovering from shutdowns and war, and just the overall situation in Ukraine and Gaza, there's a lot for people to want a change of course, and they don't know specifically how this all could get fixed.
Even if they went all-in on more leftist policies, most voters won't see beyond the 'D' and know 'D' is what we had today, therefore 'R' must be attached to the answer. A critical mass of the electorate either can not or will not critically consider the respective platforms and instead just decide based on 'keep the same' or 'change course'.
Meanwhile, in political circles, everyone is talking like the specifics and strategies made this huge difference or that huge difference and what it means, when the fact is likely that this result was pretty much a given no matter what.
I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but this makes a lot of sense. Especially in a 2-party system the election is inevitably going to be a vibe check on the status quo as much as it is a specific election focusing on specific candidates and policies. I'd like to look more closely at the margins to get a feel for whether the Republicans could have run a ham sandwich and still been successful as opposed to the specific appeal of Trumpism.
Not that that changes how rough the next 4 years are going to get for a lot of people.
So, if I've got this right...
Bernie blames all the Democrats. I'm sure he's glad he isn't one today.
Pelosi blames Biden, and doesn't respect Bernie.
Biden will blame someone in his biography, which he's waiting patiently to start.
Harris is wondering who to blame, and is probably writing her own book.
Quick Quiz: How many bills has Bernie written and got passed during his career?
You're just gloating that your wing of the party has blocked progressive legislation.
Who made a whole chunk of the population realize, they actually want healthcare for all?
This talking point, as well as a living wage, appeared and stayed relevant because of him. Also student loan forgiveness.
All Dem candidates have to incorporate those goals now, to be worth considering by the population. The Reps have other talking points, like racism, that cater to their base, so they don't have to follow this trend.
I don't know where this came from. Healthcare has been an issue since Nixon, and if you want to name a champion of it and minimum wage, without doubt it would be Ted Kennedy who produced many bills on both issues.
How many amendments?