1mo ago

Project 2025 chief’s book urges ‘burning’ of FBI, New York Times and Boy Scouts

www.theguardian.com Project 2025 chief’s book urges ‘burning’ of FBI, New York Times and Boy Scouts

Revealed: new book by far-right Kevin Roberts calls for conservatives to ‘burn away the rot’ of US institutions

Summary

Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation and architect of Trump’s Project 2025, employs intense fire-related rhetoric in his upcoming book, Dawn’s Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America, advocating for a “controlled burn” of institutions he deems corrupt or antithetical to conservative goals.

Roberts calls for dismantling entities like the FBI, Ivy League schools, and the New York Times, framing it as necessary to “renew” America.

His incendiary language has sparked controversy, with critics alarmed by the violent imagery and its implications for Trump’s second term.

128 comments

He hates the Boy Scouts and BlackRock? But is also super right-wing? Who is this guy?
- The boy scouts one is especially baffling. A lot of boys become more traditionally "manly" through boy scouts. It is physically active and they typically learn skills like camping, fire starting, wood working. We were also expected to do good deeds, be polite, and overall be decent members of society that help where is needed, such as litter clean ups and tree plantings. I guess the latter half of my point is where their issues start?
  
  Maybe because they now allow girls to participate. Integration is "woke" and must be destroyed.
  
  Both of them are pretty baffling. Because you're right about the Boy Scouts, but also, BlackRock is basically a Republican dream company.
  
  I think the issue started a little over a decade ago, when the Boy Scouts got in some hot water for discriminating against gay kids and they actually tried to be better.
  
  Maybe it is because of this: https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-lets-246-billion-boy-scouts-sex-abuse-settlement-proceed-2024-02-22/
  
  Not to mention many troops still have an emphasis on Christianity. Though it's slightly less mandatory than it used to be.
  
  do good deeds, be polite, and overall be decent members of society that help where is needed
  They call that "woke".
  Edit - oh whoops, didn't mean to just steal that right out of @stovetop@lemmy.world 's mouth.
- ...Let them fight, I guess?
- A scout’s job is to gather facts and information, and report back so that an army can make informed decisions.
  Can’t imagine why a right-wing extremist would be afraid of an organization that teaches those skills to kids.
- Maybe wants to turn the boy scouts into a new hitler youth or make way for it
- Didn’t the Boy Scouts recently started admitting girls and calling itself Scouts?
  
  Yes, but only because they would have gone bankrupt if they didn't. It was out of sheer desperation.
  Somehow people were less willing to send enough boys to an organization that had become super religious and was already trying to live down the sexual abuse scandal that had been going on for decades.

Why the fuck would you get rid of boy scouts it's literally a patriotic paramilitary (kinda) organization with a checkered past on sexual abuse that should be a Republican wet dream lol
- They renamed themselves the Scouts and let in girls. Maybe that's why? These people are insane and evil, so honestly it doesn't matter why.
  
  which was done to keep the organization afloat revenue wise and weirdos on the internet tried to call it woke in a bizarre case of friendly fire
- Whole it does teach survival skills and can teach about shooting, most of the skills are just to prepare you for life. Importantly though, it builds a community focused on helping people and doing good. It's a children's version of a mutual aid group almost. This is a bad thing for children to learn in their opinion probably.
- Paramilitary is stretching it a bit, stuff like shooting guns is optional and with guidelines from the sane past. It plays an anemic role in the BSA, tbh.
  The vast majority of boy scouts is learning constructive things like how to cook, how to perform first aid on someone who got injured in a car accident or hike, how to use a map and compass if you get lost, and basic financial planning so you aren't an idiot with money.
  In short, it prepares you for life and situations where someone might freeze up if they don't know what to do in an emergency. It also makes people fluent with the outdoors and feel comfortable spending time outside of the big city.
  Tldr; it's a group that prevents incel or gang behavior and helps people make friends.
  
  When I said paramilitary I was really just talking about the ranks and leadership structure.
  
  My Girl Scout group was basically selling cookies and building dumbass popsicle birdhouses and wifecraft. I noped out in a few months even at that age lmao. No camping SMH.
  
  Some parts of the military try to use the scouts as a vector for reaching potential recruits. definitely had a few army recruiters come by my troop. Also the rank structure, uniforms, focus on leadership, etc certainly looks a bit military-ish.
  And fwiw, I don't think the scouts does much to address incel behavior. Maybe it helps with gangs, idk.
- They’ve done a lot to prevent child abuse recently. That upsets republicans.
- He probably wants to replace it with a Hitler Youth style of program.
- I'm pretty sure they recently changed to allow LGBT members along with toying around with integrating both boys and girls into troops since the girl scouts really only exists to sell cookies. I've seen lots of garbage on social media about how "woke" the Boy Scouts are now so they're gunning for the organization.
- but then they got woke
  
  Is the national organization still anti-atheist? (NOT local chapters that oh-so-generously look the other way)
- Probably because the boy scouts no longer fits their narrative of "women bad".
- Bruh...paramilitary? Get fuckin real.
  
  Paramilitary because of the rank and leadership structure. I'm not saying they're doing combat training lmao
  
  When I lived in Alabama as a kid, they taught us to shoot rifles.

We were close to holding right wing extremists accountable. We needed one more term at least. It was clear how suddenly Republicans try to denounce the FBI as a liberal institution after Wray said that white supremacists were the #1 domestic terrorist threat.
Now, we're fucked.
- We were close to holding right wing extremists accountable.
  "We" had four goddamn years and did absolutely fuck-all with it! Frankly, in retrospect, the fix was in when Biden appointed Merrick Garland instead of somebody who would actually care about the rule of law and do his goddamn job.
  
  I know this isn't popular, but because I've literally never seen a substantive counter-argument for this, I have to say that I think Merrick Garland did all that he could given the stacked courts surrounding him. Nobody could've done better. He was clearly building a case from the bottom up that is a classic example of RICO prosecution style, hence the largest criminal investigation in the FBI's history when going after those who committed January 6th. That was always going to lead to Trump. People, however are dreaming and romanticizing this belief that we could've "got" Trump within one year's time and that was never possible.
  The only thing that matters is that many Americans knew what Trump was, and a large swath opted to sit out and go, "Both sides!"
  We couldn't even convince the proverbial jury that was the American people of crimes in plain sight when they gave a verdict on November 5th.
  
  Four years to fix a global pandemic and undo some of the trump admin damage.
  That was the bipartisan infrastructure act to shore up stuff like roads, bridges and more, the IRA to address inflation, climate goals (freed up a ton of money for green infrastructure, replacing outdated equipment at factories like gas smelters and furnaces) and more, the CHIPS and science act to counter china and restart manufacturing here in the US, as well as smaller stuff like debt relief for students, consumer protections against banks and airlines, and repealing DOMA via respect of marriage act for interracial and queer families.
  In addition to conquering covid and rescuing a crashing economy in 2020. He realistically did most of this in two years because Republicans blocked them at the midterms.
  Not to mention a lot of anti-competitve and merger blocks that would have fucked our country, like having one grocery store brand across the entire US. (These will probably go through in a trump admin)
  He wasn't able to get it all done, but he had one arm tied behind his back and still got a decent amount done before they got hamstrung.
- This is just a continuation of the wants of the Koch brothers libertarian party agenda from 1979/80.
  But, yes, we are fucked.
  https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/30/covert-operations
  https://lpedia.org/wiki/Document:National_Platform_1980
  
  I know very little about the Chevron doctrine but I know that the overturning of that made it possible for corporations to essentially ignore any administrative oversight.
  I often wondered what would happen if someone were to take the frequencies of the military or even airport flight control and just started broadcasting. Does the FCC have delegated authority? If they don't, sounds like anyone can broadcast Rick Astley on any frequency.
  The problem that these justices and elites seem to forget is that they are trusting on the very systems they dismantling working for them.
  
  It is not just a continuation of this. Maybe some of the economic things in P2025 come from there, but I don't think the Koch's were ever trying to ban pornography and track women's menstrual cycles.
- I think they want the FBI gone because they go after child traffickers.
  
  They want the FBI gone because the republican party is a criminal organization.

My personal reaction to reading this is that I want to pick up the book just to better understand what he believes these conservatives values are. Then I realized this is like trying to understand why Hitler wanted to gas the Jews.
What's more important is why the fuck Americans are democratically voting for this. I'm going to venture to guess (and hope) that the majority of people who voted for Trump have no clue what they voted for. I'd like to hope that teachers are going to use this moment in time to perfectly frame it along with the rise of Nazi Germany but I know that Trump also intends on burning down the DoE. Teachers will be prevented from using history to educate students.
Incidentally, I'm already exhausted by all the "news" being made about why the Dems lost and Trump prevailed. We have to be discussing why our media and our existing elected officials are all ignoring the plight of middle class Americans while failing, as they have always done, to educate people.
I remember as a kid hearing presidential debates and getting aggravated that the politicians weren't answering questions. And then in interviews and news reports a topic will be discussed but the contexts and ramifications of that topic are often left out (time constraints, etc). Quick example; why Biden sent arms to Israel has as much, if not more, to do with Iran as it does Gaza. WHY is never explained in political discourse and the media never pressures or holds officials accountable. I am terrified of what Trump will do to our already squeamish journalism community.
I still blame the media for Trump's 2016 win and I'm blaming them again today. People are clueless. Not to say they're unintelligent, they are uneducated regarding politics and history.
People are all in their own bubbles living their day to day lives and occasionally see headlines on their mobile apps. They're subtly influenced, sometimes by the news media but I'd venture to guess equality often by the efforts of Russian, Iranian, and Chinese disinformation armies.
Moreover, this far from a new issue. I was just reading and commented on a story about Musk being the most powerful unelected citizen in America. This reminded me a bit of the guy Citizen Cane was based off of. William Randolph Hearst owned a sprawling media company and used his influence to publish articles that were favorable to Nazis.
How are we not only allowing this but voting in favor of it?
Something is broken. It's not the political parties. It's evidently not the electoral college. Schools have always taught about WWII so it's not our education system. It could be the two party first-past-the post voting system. It could be how election campaigns are financed.
I think we're distracted. I think there's too much going on in modern lives. Too many Americans are struggling to get by while also using every moment of free time to disengage. There's basic government and economic policies and norms that people are clueless about. Take drilling for oil: most Americans think that if we drill for more oil our gas prices will go down. That's not at all true. This will only increase profits for the oil companies because, while the US actually produces more oil than any other country, we lack the infrastructure to refine the oil we have. Honestly, I only learned about that this week. Not to mention the whole tariff thing that republicans are clueless about. Above all else, I'm terrified that Trump's presidency is going to bankrupt Americans.
As this article alludes to, Americans should know that the GOP agenda is to dismantle federal agencies and replace them with private corporations. Some agencies and services will go to the states while others will become Wall Street funded corporations. Theoretically, federal taxes should decrease but state and homeowner taxes are going to sky rocket. The costs of goods and services is going to sky rocket while the quality plummets over time. This has been in the playbook since before Reagan got into office. Now they have the momentum, the votes, and the stooge in the White House to make it happen.
Don't be distracted as the stock market goes to the moon. This is their agenda – to make themselves richer on the backs of clueless Americans.
- Your point about the debate thing is really what gets me. They ask a question and the person on the other end might be close to the answer or they might give some vague response but the moderators are always gutless about it.
  “I asked you this question, answer it or we will assume you have no answer and move on.”
  
  In an ideal world, dodging questions would lead to decreased popularity. Politicians should feel that if they give bullshit answers, they will not get elected. To get there, we must actually demand, reward, and punish with the power we have, our votes. Of course, one person doing it makes no difference. We need to convince others that this is important.
  
  This is the kind of stuff that makes me turn on or at least waiver on the candidates I fully support. These interviewers are asking question on behalf to he public - the people you intend to represent. Answer them!
- Great comment, I share many of those concerns.
  I guess I'm not so worried that he will bankrupt America per se, but that the US dollar will be diminished in value, and all of the effort, savings and social security that we're all banking on in the future become nearly worthless, while billionaires plunder our country and continue to reap value in spite of the worthlessness.
  I'm also concerned Trump is going to die mid-term, and Vance will be running as a better positioned incumbent.
  The supreme court, well, that's just a lost cause at this point. I don't see it ever coming back into balance in my lifetime, and perhaps the country goes with it.
  
  I welcome a Vance presidency. What has made Trump Trump is his stubbornness and defiance of "no". He's the kind of guy who comes into a meeting says, this is what we're doing, make it happen or you're fired, and walks out. This is the same playbook people like Jobs and Musk use(d). Vance lacks this gift and I fully expect Trump's supporters to turn on him.
- Schools have always taught about WWII so it's not our education system.
  It's definitely not not our education system
  
  You can't really point at today's education system and use it to blame Americans.
  People who voted for Trump:
  65+: 51%
  45-64: 52%
  30-44: 47%
  18-29: 46%
  Our public education system has been abysmal compared to other "first world countries" and we should all be embarrassed.
  This has been part of the GOP agenda for decades though. The public schools keep getting worse and subtly foster anti-intellectualism in favor or memorization while the private and higher education schools flourish. The GOP wants to abolish the department of education and replace it with either state run education and/or private corporate owned education.
  "Education" is not in the constitution so with a conservative Supreme Court, it's very likely we will see the DoE go away. Bear in mind that the DoE was only just created under Carter and Reagan campaigned on getting rid of it.
  And, as teachers start getting wind of this and realizing what the future may hold for them, they're going jump ship. Any hope we have of progressing as a country and competing with other countries is gone. This nation will be run by a handful of corporations paying crap wages to non-union workers without the benefit of social security or pensions.
  The writing has been on the wall for a hundred years. We've laughed at it, maybe pondered it, but never took it seriously. All the dystopian novels that have been written are about to come true.

Didn't Trump already say he's not doing P2025 and wants to go with some other plan that involves messing around with taxes and taking troops out of Syria? And that the Right is pissed cause he's not doing P2025...
If true, that might be the first good deed he's done
If false, that sucks, cause I really don't wanna end up in a camp
- Christ’s sake. Like any of the shit that crime elemental says contains even a molecule of truth. He saw how upset people are by the prospect so he backpedaled like, well, someone who’s in infinitely better shape than he is. The benefit of the doubt that anyone can give—which, let’s be real here, he absolutely does not deserve—is that Trump himself isn’t going to do a goddamn thing apart from shuffle across a golf course on the daily and scribble on the occasional executive order; but you should know that the ghouls in his inner circle are the ones who do all the wetwork for him anyway. They’ll be the ones to raise their flag over Gilead, just as they’ve been planning to do all along. If you believed anything to the contrary, then I have a stainless steel electric truck to sell you.
- I haven't heard that. What I've heard is that Stephen Miller said they're full steam ahead with Project 2025.
- Trump is just a useful idiot to these fascists
- Didn't Trump already say he's not doing P2025
  Your first mistake was assuming Trump was telling the truth.
  About anything.
  Ever.
- Didn’t Trump already say…
  Yeah. But what’s that got to do with anything he’s actually going to do?

Biden leaves Afghanistan, the Taliban takes over.
Biden leaves the white house, the Taliban takes over.

So basically, lead our attention astray as we invest all the good time and resources of our politicians and defendants of democracy trying to block every aweful measure of Project 2025. And While they dismantle every important institution, make more back door deals to personally enrich themselves. We will never catch up because they are now 6 steps ahead of us in the supreme court, however many seats, and 4 years time on the shot clock to do it. If there are 4 years of gridlock, we’d be extremely lucky. But the majority of America just used their ballots to lubricate all of our asses. January we all bend over and grab a hand full of ankles.

They LITERALLY wrote this all out before the Election so Voters could Read and Understand what they're Voting for!
- Ah come on, that involves reading.

I don't think you're allowed to burn boy scouts.

Laying the ground work for a really quiet coup ay
- Can’t call it a coup when they’ve been handed the keys

You know, at least there's some solace in knowing Trump 100% didn't and can't read Project 2025. He's still going to bull-in-the-china-shop his way though this but I don't think he's going to follow the script exactly.

I think he should start with burning himself

Too bad critique can do absolutely nothing now. His wishes have already been granted.

Right but a lot of 2025 restructuring is limited by the 3 branches of goverment. You can’t just get rid of the FBI so easily. You can’t deport illegals on a massive scale so easily. He has big promises but he won’t be able to do nearly as much. Even with loyalists there is a reason why our founders made certain overhauls difficult. Because of people like him…
- At the end of the day those roadblocks are just laws. Laws that he has been cleared to break as long as he does so under the pretense of an official act.
  
  So technically yes and no. He cant just say he wants to get rid of the fbi or remove term limits at will. Study how the Goverment works

Can we keep the boy scouts the rest can go

128 comments